Dubstep: Friend or foe?

Image for Dubstep: Friend or foe?

Last Friday, we launched into our five-part debate series with some vigorous back-and-forth about whether making dance music is too easy. Well, now comes the time to chew over a new topic – and just like last week there are prizes for getting involved in the debate. All this is powered by Hyundai Veloster, and of course the need to stay entertained on Friday. So let’s get stuck in.

This week, UK music site Dummy uploaded a 2003 BBC Radio 1 documentary about the emerging dubstep scene. The half-hour show titled The New Step – which we’ve plugged in below – profiles the mongrel sound bubbling up on murky dancefloors around London, including the now-seminal FWD>> club night. “The garage scene is going downhill,” says one interviewee at the show’s opening. “They’re now calling what used to be UK garage ‘urban house’.”

The consensus of all involved – from Zed Bias to a 17-year-old Benga – is that garage and two-step has become more about courting the pop charts than the clubs. “This new sound is coming through,” says one commentator. “Everyone seems to be in it and pushing the sound. Hopefully it’ll stay underground rather than come commercial like garage did, and now it’s dead.” While even then there’s no agreement on what this new sound’s called – ‘underground breaks’?; ‘new-step’?; ‘a FWD>> sound’? – the most resonant is ‘dubstep’. “If the main players have their way, underground is where it’ll stay, so keep it to yourself,” quips the host Rowan Collinson towards the end of the show. Nine years on in 2012, it’s looking something like dance music’s worst-kept secret.

Late last year, a meme did the rounds that condensed the evolution of dubstep into two photos. ‘It used to be like this’: a huddle of dudes including Benga and Mala watching fellow Londoner Distance DJing. ‘But now it’s like this’: a huddle of young festival kids in garish colours and goofy ‘rave’ paraphernalia. Plenty of people found it chucklesome enough to share, including Skream, who jokingly posted it to his Facebook page and got 1,769 comments in return.

A Photoshop effort that probably took its creator five minutes to knock up still managed to make people very, very angry. But that’s what the word ‘dubstep’ does. When Justin Bieber is uttering it in an interview about the direction of his upcoming album, you know we’re not in 2003 anymore. “I don’t think it’ll go overground as such,” predicts the teenaged Benga in The New Step. As 2012 kicks into gear, we’re looking at a new status quo: how much more overground can it possibly go?

Comments

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Fr3ak

Fr3ak said on the 13th Jan, 2012

i dont get why people have so much hate towards dubstep.. yeah its different but try and embrace or just simply dont listen.. rather then hate on it

this is samuel

this is samuel said on the 13th Jan, 2012

The freeform of dubstep is one of its best and worst qualities.
On one side you have amazing production that captures emotion and expression, on the other you have crappy synths and bass lines thrown together by amateurs or kitch rockstars trying to reinvent themselves. The genre isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The parties are only getting bigger, bass lumiaries and new comers alike continue to produce solid tracks which should excite, not annoy people. Plus the rise of dubstep is piggybacking a return for Drum & Bass in a big way and I'm sure theres a lot of people who are all for that!
But like all other genres that grow out of their underground roots and hit the larger markets there's going to be commentators and ultimately a wave of hate. FYI its 'Dismantle' theres no d.

jazzcat

jazzcat said on the 13th Jan, 2012

i like "dubstep" and possibly even "brostep" haha. but it does get tiring hearing the same sounds everywhere you go, and i think that's the main problem at the moment. finding "good dubstep" can prove difficult, and i'm not sure if i even have yet..

demigod

demigod said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Dubstep is the new age music, it has its positives and negatives. As what happens to all music....it comes of age, gets chewed up and spat out and turned into commercialised music for the average music listener, after a while it will become a background genre.. The die hards will keep it alive and it will live on..

VanillaFace

VanillaFace said on the 13th Jan, 2012

'this is samuel' is completely right in saying that there's the two distinct 'flavours' of dubstep circulating right now. However, I don't agree that they're both going to be here to stay, simply because I believe that they can't. These two types of dubstep are opposites; I'd go so far as to say that they are in complete conflict with each other. Dubstep is now far to broad a term as at present, what it defines can be very different to different people. A genre cannot survive like this. For dubstep to survive into 2012 and beyond we need to see sub-genres emerge. It's ridiculous that we have artists like pinch under the same label as guys like Skrillex. We need to see artists separate themselves much in the way James Blake has with his 'post-dubstep' title. That said though, I still think the shelf-life of brostep is limited even if this does occur. People are listening to it at the moment as it is cool to do so. "Proper" dubstep, however, has a shelf life that is, in my opinion, infinitely longer, as long as there are still guys out there who produce it. Benga was RIGHT in his prediction that dubstep wouldn't hit the overground, as the dubstep that he was referring to at the time hasn't, and I believe never will hit the mainstream. It's because of this that this style of dubstep will survive. The mainstream simply and inevitably chews up a genre and then spits it out a complete, ruined mess. That is where the newer style of dubstep is headed in the near future, if not in 2012.

JackT

JackT said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Nice response VanillaFace. Ha, nice username too, come to think of it!

TheReturn

TheReturn said on the 13th Jan, 2012

nicely balanced article. good read.

djstevep

djstevep said on the 13th Jan, 2012

ShockOne 'And I think that%u2019s what%u2019s exciting about bass music and electronic music at the moment: all this stuff is happening that%u2019s not definable'

It actually easily defined: Pure Gash

special ed

special ed said on the 13th Jan, 2012

lets be honest, love it or hate it, I guarentee everyone has done the 'stank face head nod of approval ' at the drop of at least 1 dubstep track in their life. and loved it

sanjayippo

sanjayippo said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Firstly let me say, music is always evolving... people just have to get used to that (espically the 30 somethings that can't understand new genres and styles, that still wanna see Kraftwerk headline at every festival)

People need to understand that in this age, underground doesn't stay underground. I have to admit i loved Skrillex when he first came out, and was one of the first to d/load his album for free (see the changes people). But like everything it quickly goes from something modern and super chic to commericalised and crap. There are now so many crappy dubstep remixes of everything from Adele to the You Tube classic Nero Cat! Like David Guetta did to Progressive House people have done to Dubstep.

Therefore you really only have two options... either stick to the artists that know the genre and can actually make decent music or don't listen to new music and go back to the old trance days of the 1990s. Music have changed and now like the article says the only decent music is a mix of everything... essentially the best of the best of different era's, genres and artists.

Good djs, i.e. Mix Master Mike, have been doing this for years and this creates truely enjoyable music that you can still dance to!

Fourthstate

Fourthstate said on the 13th Jan, 2012

I just wish we could separate the term Dubstep from Brostep and all its other sub genre's like all the other electronic styles have. I like good Dubstep, but i really cant stand the Brostep

bulldozer

bulldozer said on the 13th Jan, 2012

very well written piece on a very controversial issue

JackT

JackT said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Thanks bulldozer! :)

Ph03n1x_85

Ph03n1x_85 said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Dubstep is a really interesting influence that has turned dance music in very different direction over last couple of years. Dance has moved away from the soaring anthemic heights (think Tiesto and Faithless) to the other end of the spectrum to almost being anti-dance with the grinding industrial sounds.

It really is to be expected when you have people like Usher and FloRider etc. moving away from RnB and encroaching on the Dance genre because rapping about popping caps and nailing bitches is no longer cool. Anything that makes it harder for idiots like that to be played in dance clubs works for me!

Saphire

Saphire said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Noise pollution, dubstep is a plague on modern music. If you want to see dubstep, thats fine but don't let it infect the doofs and psy parties

:whyioughtta:

BumblingBee

BumblingBee said on the 13th Jan, 2012

hating on specific genres is as ridiculous as liking only one...
there is only two types of music anyway - good & bad. every genre and sub-genre has both types

BumblingBee

BumblingBee said on the 13th Jan, 2012

but damn i hate dubstep

JackMckenzie

JackMckenzie said on the 13th Jan, 2012

I think people need to stop classifying every noise that comes out at 70/140bpm as just dubstep. In my Itunes I have 3 Genre's for it. "Brostep" "Chillstep" "ThatInBetweenStep".
I think the rise of "brostep" has been a great thing. There is absolutely no way we would be seeing the producers touring Australia if it hadn't exploded like it had.
Sure to the hipsters out there that now hate what they loved 5 years ago because people like Sonny Moore made the music mainstream. But now I have a lot of friends who used to refuse to listen to that side of EDM absolutely loving it. Christ it's even opened doors for average people to start liking producers / dj's such as Martyn and Flying Lotus.

VanillaFace

VanillaFace said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Ph03n1x_85 raises an interesting point in regards to the influence that dubstep has had, and will continue to have (in the near future, at least) on other forms of EDM, and and mainstream hits. It's interesting that over the past few months we've heard Britney and Bieber experiment with dubstep sounds. THis is evidence in itself of the huge current popularity of the 'wub' sounds.
Over the next 12 months, I predict that these 'experimentations' are going to become much more frequent. As it is, *dusbtep sells*. This is key to what we are seeing at the moment. As I previosuly said, it's 'cool' to listen to dubstep at the moment, and mainstream "musicians" are catching on to this big time.
Similarly, DUBSTEP producers are catching on that *dubstep sells*, with brostep unfortunately being the bestseller. As unfortunate as it is, what producers create is often the product of the want of the community. As it stands, those memebers of the dubstep community who prefer brostep currently outweigh those who prefer the more traditional style, and thus we are seeing what were (imho) great producers beginning to produce garbage. Look at Modestep's recent productions, and of course, as the article mentions, Nero's 2011 album. Heck, Welcome Reality was a feature album on Triple j!
As the popularity of dubstep continues to soar into 2012, we'll see a constant degradation of the quality of what were once good producers (though I acknowledge that this is purely subjective). As demigod said, it's only the diehards who produce for the genuine love of dubstep, and what it truly stands for, that will keep it alive at the end of the day.

pEAkeR_hAT

pEAkeR_hAT said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Americans ruin anything breakbeat,

"yay LOUD gaRISH noisiES!",

*head nodding vibes ftw

VanillaFace

VanillaFace said on the 13th Jan, 2012

And I'll throw this in for anyone that say that you can't dance to dubstep; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXO-jKksQkM

Perhaps also a good example of What Rusko said about every up-and-coming producer having the same Massive presets.

DJ KnightSA

DJ KnightSA said on the 13th Jan, 2012

I'd like to preface this by saying that I am one of those "kids" that's "jumped on the noisy, distorted dubstep bandwagon". I know that's basically declared my bias from the get go, but hopefully it also shows some insight when I say the following:

There's A LOT of REALLY bad dubstep out there.

But then, there's a lot of it in any genre.
Take a look at Trance:
How could we forget classics like Hampton the Hampster's Hampster Dance? Or the Crazy Frog's worldwide success?

The difference is the age in which dubstep has come about in; or, more specifically, YouTube.
We get exposed to far more of the dodgy, sub-par Dubstep than we ever got from pre-YouTube genres.
However, the stuff that is good, the stuff that is well produced and well made, will be the stuff that lasts.
The noisier Dubstep is more popular than the classic minimalistic Dubstep because it sounds better on YouTube.

I agree that dubstep is almost a dirty word in the music industry.
However, I also think that producers should always be proud of the genre they're making.
if you make dubstep, say you make dubstep.
Who cares if you get associated with Skrillex?
Do you think every rock artist out there is eternally worried they'll get compared to Nickelback?

On the topic of Skrillex, the reason he's the "most hated" is the same reason Elvis was:
He was the first person to make it really big doing what he does. What he is doing is new and, as such, people will instinctively dislike it.

As for the mosh-pit culture surrounding it, it's quite simple to explain really:
(noisy) Dubstep is to dance music as Metal is to Rock.
You need that contrast so your classic genre can stay pure.
With the separation, all of a sudden, all the people that were "ruining" the other genre are off doing their own thing.
Which is why, as much as I dislike the term "brostep", I use it as much as possible when describing my music.
I'm off doing my own thing in my own genre.

And hey, I'm having fun and making something I think sounds good. Which in the end, is all that matters.

YayaLadyZombie

YayaLadyZombie said on the 13th Jan, 2012

In topical years since Skrillex%u2019s shot to fame, it has opened doors for many other dubstep djs to mark their existence in the scene through their music. The statement is not limited to the local but also the international market, which has seen a remarkable growth in the landscape. The spotlight has not only been casted on the dubstep vista alone, but the EDM scene too has gained much more exposure with the arrivals of Zedd, Porter Robinson and a lot more with their cutting edge releases and mixes flourishing the scene with a fresh breath of air. They may be young but their talent seems to be taking on to a different level of sounds and creations. And it seems that it hasn%u2019t stopped exploding ever since. Skrillex may have laid a solid base for the music to venture globally and all the rest is now in the hands of everyone to ensure that it keeps pushing boundaries.

Skrillex is a charmer when it comes to music and most definitely the overnight sensation that undoubtedly will continue shining. Rare is a talent who has made such fame in his rookie years but here he is, positioned to keep building that foundation.

The awe-inspiring thing about Skrillex is technically focused on his music production, his energetic deliverance through his gigs/shows and the level of acceptance and recognition that the industry has given him. Not limited to his fans who cultivate on daily basis, music tycoons such as Skream, Benga and the rest too have given him the detection that he deserves. Cherish the revolution, Skream and Benga has come a long way from days of making music using 3 lap tops to now having a worldwide recognition as the founding fathers of dubstep. The roots of dubstep will always go back to the dons who created the sounds and then will continue to those who has distributed it to the next level. We are past the morbid days when dubstep took residency in sweaty underground clubs with 50 people worth of crowd. Now in 2012, everyone wants to be the dubstep ambassador and it's a pinch of reality. When a genre goes mainstream and the way dubstep has been polished to the pop sheen, there will be the birth of sub-genres. Whatever it is, some of us will definitely explore the roots of it and it will go back to the godfathers of dubstep. :)

Saliki

Saliki said on the 13th Jan, 2012

I recall once upon a time music was written to express emotions and mental images (agitation, tranquility, spaciousness, raw sound energy, [excuse the clumsy adjectives]). I still think that artists/Djs such as Trentemoller, James Zabeila, Apparat, etc. still feel this way.

However, i feel a lot of new music producers, instead of musically representing inner visions and feelings through music, they are making music that really make people 'lose their shit' at the drop, enormous build ups to get a crowd roaring, etc.

Maybe it's because less people are buying records and artists depend more on touring and live shows, that many new artists are focusing their efforts on making music that really makes people go nuts and have a great time with a great sound system in their live show. Really, it's a great money making tool, it helps the artist survive.

As a result, private listening and indulgence is lost with that kind of music that really shines when you hear it live.
Perhaps music itself is shifting in its purpose.

YayaLadyZombie

YayaLadyZombie said on the 13th Jan, 2012

In topical years since Skrillex's shot to fame, it has opened doors for many other dubstep djs to mark their existence in the scene through their music. The statement is not limited to the local but also the international market, which has seen a remarkable growth in the landscape. The spotlight has not only been casted on the dubstep vista alone, but the EDM scene too has gained much more exposure with the arrivals of Zedd, Porter Robinson and a lot more with their cutting edge releases and mixes flourishing the scene with a fresh breath of air. They may be young but their talent seems to be taking on to a different level of sounds and creations. And it seems that it hasn't stopped exploding ever since. Skrillex may have laid a solid base for the music to venture globally and all the rest is now in the hands of everyone to ensure that it keeps pushing boundaries.

Skrillex is a charmer when it comes to music and most definitely the overnight sensation that undoubtedly will continue shining. Rare is a talent who has made such fame in his rookie years but here he is, positioned to keep building that foundation.

The awe-inspiring thing about Skrillex is technically focused on his music production, his energetic deliverance through his gigs/shows and the level of acceptance and recognition that the industry has given him. Not limited to his fans who cultivate on daily basis, music tycoons such as Skream, Benga and the rest too have given him the detection that he deserves. Cherish the revolution, Skream and Benga has come a long way from days of making music using 3 lap tops to now having a worldwide recognition as the founding fathers of dubstep. The roots of dubstep will always go back to the dons who created the sounds and then will continue to those who has distributed it to the next level. We are past the morbid days when dubstep took residency in sweaty underground clubs with 50 people worth of crowd. Now in 2012, everyone wants to be the dubstep ambassador and it's a pinch of reality. When a genre goes mainstream and the way dubstep has been polished to the pop sheen, there will be the birth of sub-genres. Whatever it is, some of us will definitely explore the roots of it and it will go back to the godfathers of dubstep. :)

P337

P337 said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Skrillex is magical and I think that haters be jealous.

DaN-_-iEl

DaN-_-iEl said on the 13th Jan, 2012

I cringe when people say dubstep only because of the way it's so over played and because it all sounds the same, but I don't think that's the dj, producers fault. I blame the current cringe-ness on the lack of unique sounds and on every Tom, dick and sonny "having a go" and having absolutey no idea what there doing!! But I'm no expert that's just my two cents.

Mahali

Mahali said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Like it was said previously, music is always changing and you have to have an open mind when listening to new genres. Dubstep is no different.
There are many people who only listen to music that is played on the radio or MTV and know how popular it is becoming but, don't understand that there are two different styles of dubstep; the underground stuff and the mainstream stuff. This is probably why there is such a huge argument on dubstep music being labeled incorrectly and underground type dupstep artist being afraid to label their music as 'dupstep' due to the mainstream dubstep music behind it.
I think incorrect genre labeling happens with pretty much every type of music though and it gets even more confusing with the sub genres; the underground type, the mainstream type, brostep the list goes on. Music reporters, writers, listeners and even some musicians are probably overwhelmed with all the sub genres they're unsure what to call the specific music and just use a term that is popular now; dubstep.
With all this said, I do think that dupstep will continue to be popular this year but, I think people should stop complaining about 'mainstream dubstep sucking' or it was so much better back in the day because there will always be artist that continue the 'back in the day' music you love you just need to look for them. I''m just going to continue to enjoy and appreciate all styles of this genre and I am sure if you tried you would find something you would end up liking or even...loving!

lawlietskyy

lawlietskyy said on the 13th Jan, 2012

@Fr3ak ..."i dont get why people have so much hate towards dubstep.. yeah its different but try and embrace or just simply dont listen.. rather then hate on it" ................This world of ours created Justin Bieber ... sure alot of people hate him .. would YOU embrace him? No. of course not ... the only humane thing we HATERS are trying to do Bieber & dubstep is ... KILL IT WITH POSITIVE FIRE.

Conor-

Conor- said on the 13th Jan, 2012

Who else thinks that The Quietus is a stupid name for a journal or newspaper? Sounds like queef. ugh.

But you cant listen to Chase and Status or Nero without saying its clever.

hdskp

hdskp said on the 13th Jan, 2012

I think that musically there's probably several areas dubstep's moving in. There's artists moving to a more "future garage" "post dubstep" spund, some moving towards minimal and dub techno hybrids, some moving into hiphop and glitch styles and some moving into drum and bass and breakbeat. Pretty much these artists are more foreward and not playing the big brash noisy sound "bro-step and the like". The latter won't last for more than a few years it's tedious, gimmicky and moved on the notion of being hip, bass heavy and the in thing. The earlier musical types are not only going to be timeless but theres a long future for artists like Shackleton, Scuba, appleblim, pinch, zomby, ferusshu,2526 etc etc.

I think this musical schism is also reflected (as pointed out in a great article) in the "commmercialness" and "undergroundness" that artists and fans label the music.

Dubstep to me in it's original format (2007 etc) was sort of like a one trick pony and really boring it was only with labels like deepmedi (still awesome) and the emrgence of Burial (pivotal to me in shaping a new sound) that made dubstep awesome. The noisy bro-step music like Trolleysnatcher, cookimonster, skrillex and the like is really boring...it's the same thing over and over. I don't understand how it can be so popular, it's not even musically catch/easy to dance to and such. It' concept of branding and in some markets "undergroundness" that push it. And goof luck to that sound, cause musically it's boring and tedious. If you like big bass and such why not listen to artists like Kanji Kinetic who are downright hilarious and great fun??

To give a personal idea of this schism. In my local Jbhifi they hhave skrillex, ruskko cd's for 20 dollars and they apparently sell very well. But in their 5 dollar sales bin you can get 2526's 'aerial" for 5 dollars, Puinch's CD for 10 and i also got Burial and Zomby's cd's for 10 bucks there.

hdskp

hdskp said on the 14th Jan, 2012

Sorry meant "sales bin" not "5 dollar sales bin"

Anyway i think a lot of this proves that a lot of people who listne to dubstep only hear a very small part of it. I'd bet money none of them even know what actual dub is, what the other types of artists/dubstep sound is. And you knwo what? They probably don't even care.

Makkaaa

Makkaaa said on the 14th Jan, 2012

The problem with mainstream dubstep and in fact any EDM genre that has become mainstream is that people believe it has to have a drop and be able to be danced to. One of the reasons I love bass music is it not danced to, so you can just listen and enjoy it. Another issue with this brostep arises from the fact that people listen to music on shitty laptop speakers and ipod headphones, which have terrible bass fidelity. Early dubstep/uk garage heavily relies on basslines so with that out of the question the wobbles and such comes from the mids and highs, producing very very poor dubstep.

pEAkeR_hAT

pEAkeR_hAT said on the 14th Jan, 2012

The problem with skrillex is that he's taken the credibility and novelty of dubstep, and exploited it with crappy melodies and stupid loud noises in a typically American-exess way,

Noisia, calyx-teebee, ed-rush and like a millio other cunts have been doing distorted bass for more than a decade,

if skrillex is good at anything, its recognising that a retarded market that likes bar-chord bass music exists , and catering for their 10 second attention spans.

hdskp

hdskp said on the 14th Jan, 2012

I don't think you can say that EDM is always a nature of excess, minimalism has it's roots in the US.

But i agree. My issue and fuck it i can be called elitist, is that the fands of Skrillex are going on about how great they are the music is when they compeltely ignore a wide spectrum of sounds. yet they then go on about how musically a genius Skrillex is. I disagree, he's a brand and nothing much, i tried to listen to his music but it bored me and it was really quite formulaic to similar stuff that came before him. If you jerks want to label people a genius back it up. Si Begg, plastician etc they are more "genius" than your borestep artists.

And wasn't it Timbaland who takes credit for dubstep or as he called "bassstep"? The US is seen as some mecca that dance music needs to legitimize itself in. I think it's bullshit All it is an economic push to commericalise and increase profits.

User_261427

User_261427 said on the 14th Jan, 2012

I checked out a new local club not long ago. It was 'Dubstep' all night. It was absolutely frustrating ! I am all for progression of music, it's a good occasional mix in to have a stomp to, But a club playing just that all night is crazy !

DJBodie

DJBodie said on the 14th Jan, 2012

Good read.

I'm wondering what's gonna be next? Is there any kool underground shit making ripples at the moment that has the potential to make a ga-zilion dollars?

And if so, will it go over & above ground quicker than ye ol' dubstep? Since the human race's attention span is getting shorter by the year and all.

IncArN8

IncArN8 said on the 14th Jan, 2012

If u like Dubstep or not u got to appreciate the influence its had on other genres. Before Dubstep most tunes had a single bassline & the coolest part of that bassline was a single key change (lol) Now thanks to Dubsteps influence & uniqueness we have tunes with 10 basslines, theres shit everywhere & it's made dance music fresh again & I think it's also brought back a much needed nasty, dirty sound back to dance music (somewhat) instead of being overwelmed with chezz. lol :)

crackthatback

crackthatback said on the 14th Jan, 2012

Oh how I dislike dubstep. Not the genre, but the fact that it is saturating clubs and festival lineups. I remember when DJs who would play a Drum and Bass, garage or breaks set might throw in something dubby just to break things up a little, but an entire set of bleepy dubstep makes me wonder how anyone can enjoy it. I know I'm getting on compared to the new 17 year olds ready to pay money to see anything marketed right at the next festival, but even the most tone-deaf among us knows that most dubstep is just plain annoying. The buildups and breaks in most "dubstep remixes" are what frustrate me. I expect a drum and bass style break and then I get squeaks and bleeps, to which the only thing I feel like coordinating my body movement to is hurling my beer at the DJ. Dance music was fuelled by an urge to dance, watch Pump up the Volume, it was all about music getting faster, making you want to move in time with the rhythm and get your heart rate up. Hell, even hiphop and RNB makes people move their body sexily in time with the music, albeit at a slower RPM, and all of the RNB stars seem to be crossing over now, following the lead of Will.I.Am into Guetta's destructive waiting hands, but at least it's a tempo you can still dance to. I digress - back to dubstep...Very few people can do the popping and robot moves that you see in youtube vids. These dubstep remixes just hurt my ears most of the time, it's not good enough quality to warrant playing a whole set with it. Songs like "I Need air", "Me & You" and "Katy on a Mission" are musically fantastic, and get me dancing for a short time. I am actually surprised that dubstep has been so successful in this day and age of ADHD and facebook, but I guess kids want to hear something different to their forefather's brand of dance music SO BADLY they'll listen to anything...the fact that a band like Die Antwoord can be successful proves that anything is possible nowadays... My 2 cents.

crackthatback

crackthatback said on the 14th Jan, 2012

As for all the hate about Skrillex - I've not seen his sets live, but I've seen his set on youtube at SXSW last year and he sounded like he was mixing it up between dubstep and electro enough to keep it interesting for me. Still wouldn't pay to see him though. I'm sorry, but he's not Zef enough.

Funkedub

Funkedub said on the 15th Jan, 2012

The main problem for me is the nomenclature ... there's nowt dubby about Skrillex and its ilk.


I had a fellow co-worker ask me for some "dub" as some folks have shortened "dubstep" to now ... so i gave them some dubs ... and some lo-slung dubstep ... they were disappointed and said there was too much slow stuff and Jamaican stuff ... nomenclature problem IMO.



Oh .. also the lack of creativity, innovation and has resulted in cookie cutter diatribes ... but hey, that's pop music innit!


Also .. this : [SOUNDCLOUD]http://soundcloud.com/funkedub/funkedub-presents-why-dubstep[/SOUNDCLOUD]

LunarCat

LunarCat said on the 15th Jan, 2012

As some others have already pointed out, I think dubstep would profit from the further development of its sub-genres. As it is, I am pretty much indifferent toward it, but that's probably because I've been able to avoid the current over-saturation of this music... If I haven't, I'd probably dislike it rather strongly. Still, if there were sub-genres defined, one could perhaps find something that he likes, and then be able to say "I don't hate dubstep - I love this subgenre, but I hate that one." (Okay, I still think hate is a heavy word for this.)

All in all - is dubstep a friend or foe - it's neither. It is a super popular thing these days, but heck, if it wasn't dubstep in those shoes, if would be something else. I guess it's just the way things are.

sHaRp-b0y

sHaRp-b0y said on the 15th Jan, 2012

Hahaha @ "Jamaican stuff"

Lambretta

Lambretta said on the 15th Jan, 2012

Sorry to put on the old bastard hat, but I seem to have heard this conversation twenty years ago about hardcore and ten years ago about trance and breaks

With any musical movement you are going to find both talented musicians and showy knob jockeys. its up to you, the consumer (or listener as we used to call you back in the 70's maaaaan) to decide what you like and what you dont. Dubstep, to my mind, is no different. There is some, like Skrillex, that makes me wish I was fucking deaf, yet there are artists such as Neo that can create god damn awesome music.

If you assume everything about a genre of music is either great or shite, then you probably arent worrying about body hair yet. Just enjoy what you enjoy and ridicule and belittle those that like something else. After all, this is ITM.

PS Gabba is an exlusion in this discussion as its all utter fucking bollocks without exception.

Dj_Hannibal_Grandma

Dj_Hannibal_Grandma said on the 15th Jan, 2012

To me, dubstep is in the drums. You can have a wobble bass and House drums (such as what Skrillex does) and that's Electro House. Where as if you have a wobble bass and dubstep drums then that's dubstep. Dubstep is around 70-80 BPM, Electronic is around 120-140 BPM. Skrillex is usually 140ish BPM, point proven. In conclusion, Skrillex isn't dubstep.

james223

james223 said on the 15th Jan, 2012

Skrillex is gonna skrill

dirtyepic

dirtyepic said on the 16th Jan, 2012

"Is it any surprise %u2018bass music%u2019 has become the pleasingly non-specific, judgement-free refuge?"

This quote really resonated with me - embarrassingly, because of how true it was. I work as a freelance music journalist and when people ask me what kind of music I'm into, I'm usually fairly vague - in my experience, once you mention the word "dubstep" people start thinking of the tired, mechanical frat-boy kind of scene (HURR DURR BASS DROP), which is kind of a very narrow view of the genre when you consider the raft of really original, boundary-pushing music that's been released under the tag over the past few years.

In particular, I think 2011 was a good year for dubstep's crossover into other genres, with artists like Scuba, Martyn, Surgeon and others pushing sounds encroaching on house and techno's territory (holy shit, Scuba's DJ-KiCKS entry - mix of the year or what?).

So I think it will be people like these, who deliberately keep it non-formulaic and attempt to reappropriate the sounds, tempos and hallmarks of the genre in new ways who will be key to its survival. I don't want to see it die a slow and protracted death like breaks or what have you - it has real potential as releases from artists like SBTRKT, Zomby, Katy B, Sepalcure and Emika all clearly demonstrated this year, and for it to retain any credibility its artists and DJs needs to keep finding new ground to explore. 2011 was the year that showed us all its hold on the EDM scene - here's hoping there are a few more left yet, hey?

Juzzy9

Juzzy9 said on the 16th Jan, 2012

I really feel sorry for all the "original" dubstep guys who have watched their music be crushed by commercialization.......

Kiron

Kiron said on the 16th Jan, 2012

In topical years since Skrillex's shot to fame, it has opened doors for many other dubstep djs to mark their existence in the scene through their music. The statement is not limited to the local but also the international market, which has seen a remarkable growth in the landscape. The spotlight has not only been casted on the dubstep vista alone, but the EDM scene too has gained much more exposure with the arrivals of Zedd, Porter Robinson and a lot more with their cutting edge releases and mixes flourishing the scene with a fresh breath of air. They may be young but their talent seems to be taking on to a different level of sounds and creations. And it seems that it hasn't stopped exploding ever since. Skrillex may have laid a solid base for the music to venture globally and all the rest is now in the hands of everyone to ensure that it keeps pushing boundaries.

Skrillex is a charmer when it comes to music and most definitely the overnight sensation that undoubtedly will continue shining. Rare is a talent who has made such fame in his rookie years but here he is, positioned to keep building that foundation.

....blah blah blah blah blah on and on Skrillex dick sucking



Sorry, it's kind of an argumentative cop-out to employ this observation, but the fact you actually like all the Skrillex BS (succesfully transitioned overnight, produces on just laptop with ableton with some shitty speakers (one apparently broken)) pretty much instantly singles you all out as either young, or simple.

1. I was "there" when he was in a "hardcore" band. I was very much into post-hardcore at the time From First to Last started "trending", and that band, plus the wave of imitators that followed (Aiden, for example) was both a the first and final nail in its coffin. Atrocious music that single-handedly attracted the derogatory use of the "emo" handle.

2. After leaving FFTL he struggled for years producing horrid near-outsider-music-quality emotronica shite like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaRAOFkbdIM

this is by far the most PASSABLE output from that timeframe, sadly the HILARIOUS shit that was on his myspace isn't there anymore.

He first heard "dubstep" something like... one and a half years ago, via a second-, if not a third-hand source: Borgore. he actually admits to this in an interview. as emo kids will be, he was instantly drawn to the sound. so, first he does some awful remixes and a shitty EP of "br000tal" "electrohouse" and "dubstep" "tunes" with awful cheesy speech-synth verses and sound-design based around the philosophy of turning distortion up to 11.

Then media blackout.

6 months later, album chock-full of tracks with top-notch production on the drops (I'll admit to that, but honestly who GIVES A SHIT about basses made with the "modern talking" wavetable in Massive anymore?! a horse beaten well into putrefaction, that) but with the most awful fucking melodies and dismally chopped-up whiny grating vocals in between the drops. almost like... parts on the same song weren't made by the same person! gasp...

The story goes like this:

Spor takes some time off from working on his debut album as Feed Me (which also comes out on mau5trap a couple of months after Skrillex's, and sounds almost like a much much much much better and bereft of the revoltingly, vomit-inducing saccharine cheese of the former) and reworks some of his album out-takes into usable drops.

Excision and Datsik get a call, make some guy some drum loops and some Massive patches, get paid.

Noisia are called in for a little R&D.

Deadmau5 (who is by no means untalented) looms over the entire process.

And so we arrive at this Frankenstein's monster of aggro popular dance music that is "Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites" (good name!).

Anyways, whenever anyone says Sonny's music "rips people's heads off" and "producers are trying to emulate him", that doesn't ring so true anymore, does it? I don't see anyone struggling to emulate the whiny emo crap he does by himself on top, more like I see people trying to emulate the kind of drops they've been trying to emulate for years, ever since excision, datsik, 16bit, noisia, spor, borgore and other splendid producers with appropriate mileage hit the spotlight.

Now you might be thinking... "but if he ain't doing anything himself, what would be the point of paying all these other guys to ghost produce, instead of just releasing more material by the guys themselves?"
Well, very simple: excision is a guy from middle Canada with a hoodie, and kind of a hard man. noisia are three down to earth dudes from the netherlands. spor is a soft-spoken aphex fan. skrillex is a meth-head who chain smokes, tweeks out, looks like a goth Mowgli, and so on. and that will always do wonders for the angsty rebellious tween demographic. and skrillex had been on WB's roster ever since working with Ross Robinson on FFTL's Heroine. they saw an opportunity, and had the perfect poster child for it. they threw some wads of money around, did some beatport top 10 magic, and, voila, everyone has a new favorite "dubstep" "musician" with heaps of "talent" to his name.

Now about how Skrillex conducts his live sets. To remove any confusion it goes like this.

Identical track 'crates' on both Deck A and B, in Ableton Live. Tracks are warped to time and he literally uses the laptop track pad to trigger the next track when he wants to start playing, switching between deck A and B. Crosfader assigned to one of the faders on his M-Audio Trigger Finger controller incase he fucks up. Which he does. Alot

he also has a fader for tempo adjustment, which he uses when he decides not to beatmatch and just bring in a new track at stupidly high bpm and hope nobody notices. By the time it's reached a normal BPM the other track has faded out. Everyone is too high to notice and all the people who aren't get to laugh jovially at his lack of ability.

He makes frequent and painful use of Ableton Lives Beat-Repeat plugin, which he as assigned to one of the knobs on his Trigger Finger. The knob acts as both on/off for the Beat Repeat effect AND repetition frequency. He seems to be able to pitch change too, so he probably assigned the same effect to two knobs, but one pitch changes as well as adjusting frequency.

This is how he consistently butchers all his tracks live.

Aside from that, not much goes on. A good portion of the knobs are unassigned. he seems to have "Yes, Oh My God!" and a few other of his notable vocal samples assigned to the pads so he can bring them in before a drop. Lovely.

He doesn't beatmatch. Ableton does. And when even Ableton can't mix his shit, he gives up and just does stupid shit with his effects and tempo. There is nothing interesting going on stage at all.

Take a look at this video, you can clearly see the screen of his laptop and exactly what he's doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvDmjc16ysA

Note that only two knobs do anything. Both the beat-repeat stutter. One pitch adjust, other non-pitch adjust.

Only external effect is on the mixer, which is Only used for effects, in this video he does a filter and flanger, both built into that particular mixer.

He's swiping around trying to find the next song to play before clicking it, then letting Ableton drop it in time with the beat, then he does his little crosefade, then some brodiving.

Now back on his productions.

Notice the moment he leaves mau5trap and starts his "OWSLA" label, he loses all his decent bass and relies entirely on two or three presets that he managed to keep.

He kept some pointless sample and presets, which have been recycled over and over (You may recognize the same whining saw and the same grinding high-wubs with little alteration consistently in each of his new tracks).

Any growls that you still here are from his former samples that he kept. He lacks the technical ability to make decent sounding growls anymore, as he never made them in the first place.

You will notice the over-use of the massive "modern talking" wavetable on his new EP. This is his replacement for "his" FM8 growls that he doesn't know how to make.

Sxrrillex is a fraud. There is Sonny Moore Skrillex, responsible for the mess of the latest EP and the first EP, and then there is 'collabrative skrillex' made up of superior sound designers, who built his songs for him. And they will build no more, because he's a lying little gollum looking imp. The facts are there if you look hard enough.

Edit:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9582/skrillexscreenfu.jpg

A little recreation image of what's going on his screen.

Makkaaa

Makkaaa said on the 16th Jan, 2012

Funny picture I saw about how skrillex fans are completely oblivious to what EDM actually is: http://i.imgur.com/kuyYO.jpg

B_e_de

B_e_de said on the 17th Jan, 2012

^ Came here to post exactly that.

And WhiteKnightSA and P337, stop recycling the same fucking garbage.Nobody hates Skrillex because he's famous or whatever, he's despised because his music is terrible. You're both as two dimensional as Skrillex himself.

I don't have anything constructive to add, everybody here has already emphasised it in such a greater and detailed way that if I even tried it would pale in comparison. Suffice to say, there's absolutely no problem with the core concept of Dubstep itself. It's manifestations of Brostep and the engraining of Noise culture into it's current form has what's caused the downfall of the term 'Dubstep' itself. However, terrific music is still being produced, you just need to know who to look for and where to find it.

pericson

pericson said on the 17th Jan, 2012

In the end it all comes under the umbrella term dance music. Dubstep has become so popular because people like to dance to it, and the heavier it is the crazier people go and the more fun they have. The heavy dubstep and the deep dubstep are both dubstep, by definition of 140 half beat tempo. So just like any genre of music you are gonna have different artists takes on what they want to do within the genre. I like both the heavy and deep stuff and have been listening to it for years, all i can say is that when you get in to a club the heavy stuff makes the party, which is exactly what you want in a club.
And these days most artists don't solely produce dubstep. Take a look at any of the latest releases by 'dubstep artists' and you will find a mixture of dub, dnb, electro and moombah, so a more reasonable term for this style of music is bass music where it is a collection of sounds and tempos all focused on the bass.

wild_comfort

wild_comfort said on the 17th Jan, 2012

Everyone should jump on this new bandwagon now. There's a few record labels (100% silk, Not not fun) that are releasing some smooth shit. Also the albums released last year from Perc, roly porter (from dubstep pioneers vex'd), oneohtrix point never, byetone

wild_comfort

wild_comfort said on the 17th Jan, 2012

Maria Minerva and lucky last jame ferraro

Bruno from Burwood

Bruno from Burwood said on the 17th Jan, 2012

More simplistic, uninformed rubbish from posters and journos alike.

Listen to the music released on labels like Hotflush, 3024, Tectonic and Hyperdub; listen to a DJ Pete Wax Treatment podcast; experience the journey of a Kryptic Minds set/album; and then listen to the British industrial techno producers' take on the genre. You can then report back as you will have an idea of what dubstep is about and the potential range within the genre.

This great debate series is aimed at pop music, not proper electronic music. The more I think about it the happier I am to let the computer programmers who allow software to make pop music call it what ever they like. As long as we understand that it is pop music.

ITM is about electronic music. Can we please discuss electronic music.

FLIP3051

FLIP3051 said on the 17th Jan, 2012

The emergence of Brostep, and the runaway train it's becoming suits me fine. All it's done has opened the mind of more producers and DJs, not keen on assimilating to distorted wobbles, to make/play interesting sounds across multiple styles of house/techno/breaks/dubstep etc which is becoming 'bass music,' and encapsulating all things good about electronic music.

Makes for much more varied and interesting production, shows and sets in my eyes...

Gone are the days where people buy anthems and look in one genre section for tunes.. and that's how it should be.

RunningWithScissors

RunningWithScissors said on the 17th Jan, 2012

Sorry, it's kind of an argumentative cop-out to employ this observation, but the fact you actually like all the Skrillex BS (succesfully transitioned overnight, produces on just laptop with ableton with some shitty speakers (one apparently broken)) pretty much instantly singles you all out as either young, or simple.

1. I was "there" when he was in a "hardcore" band. I was very much into post-hardcore at the time From First to Last started "trending", and that band, plus the wave of imitators that followed (Aiden, for example) was both a the first and final nail in its coffin. Atrocious music that single-handedly attracted the derogatory use of the "emo" handle.

2. After leaving FFTL he struggled for years producing horrid near-outsider-music-quality emotronica shite like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaRAOFkbdIM

this is by far the most PASSABLE output from that timeframe, sadly the HILARIOUS shit that was on his myspace isn't there anymore.

He first heard "dubstep" something like... one and a half years ago, via a second-, if not a third-hand source: Borgore. he actually admits to this in an interview. as emo kids will be, he was instantly drawn to the sound. so, first he does some awful remixes and a shitty EP of "br000tal" "electrohouse" and "dubstep" "tunes" with awful cheesy speech-synth verses and sound-design based around the philosophy of turning distortion up to 11.

Then media blackout.

6 months later, album chock-full of tracks with top-notch production on the drops (I'll admit to that, but honestly who GIVES A SHIT about basses made with the "modern talking" wavetable in Massive anymore?! a horse beaten well into putrefaction, that) but with the most awful fucking melodies and dismally chopped-up whiny grating vocals in between the drops. almost like... parts on the same song weren't made by the same person! gasp...

The story goes like this:

Spor takes some time off from working on his debut album as Feed Me (which also comes out on mau5trap a couple of months after Skrillex's, and sounds almost like a much much much much better and bereft of the revoltingly, vomit-inducing saccharine cheese of the former) and reworks some of his album out-takes into usable drops.

Excision and Datsik get a call, make some guy some drum loops and some Massive patches, get paid.

Noisia are called in for a little R&D.

Deadmau5 (who is by no means untalented) looms over the entire process.

And so we arrive at this Frankenstein's monster of aggro popular dance music that is "Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites" (good name!).

Anyways, whenever anyone says Sonny's music "rips people's heads off" and "producers are trying to emulate him", that doesn't ring so true anymore, does it? I don't see anyone struggling to emulate the whiny emo crap he does by himself on top, more like I see people trying to emulate the kind of drops they've been trying to emulate for years, ever since excision, datsik, 16bit, noisia, spor, borgore and other splendid producers with appropriate mileage hit the spotlight.

Now you might be thinking... "but if he ain't doing anything himself, what would be the point of paying all these other guys to ghost produce, instead of just releasing more material by the guys themselves?"
Well, very simple: excision is a guy from middle Canada with a hoodie, and kind of a hard man. noisia are three down to earth dudes from the netherlands. spor is a soft-spoken aphex fan. skrillex is a meth-head who chain smokes, tweeks out, looks like a goth Mowgli, and so on. and that will always do wonders for the angsty rebellious tween demographic. and skrillex had been on WB's roster ever since working with Ross Robinson on FFTL's Heroine. they saw an opportunity, and had the perfect poster child for it. they threw some wads of money around, did some beatport top 10 magic, and, voila, everyone has a new favorite "dubstep" "musician" with heaps of "talent" to his name.

Now about how Skrillex conducts his live sets. To remove any confusion it goes like this.

Identical track 'crates' on both Deck A and B, in Ableton Live. Tracks are warped to time and he literally uses the laptop track pad to trigger the next track when he wants to start playing, switching between deck A and B. Crosfader assigned to one of the faders on his M-Audio Trigger Finger controller incase he fucks up. Which he does. Alot

he also has a fader for tempo adjustment, which he uses when he decides not to beatmatch and just bring in a new track at stupidly high bpm and hope nobody notices. By the time it's reached a normal BPM the other track has faded out. Everyone is too high to notice and all the people who aren't get to laugh jovially at his lack of ability.

He makes frequent and painful use of Ableton Lives Beat-Repeat plugin, which he as assigned to one of the knobs on his Trigger Finger. The knob acts as both on/off for the Beat Repeat effect AND repetition frequency. He seems to be able to pitch change too, so he probably assigned the same effect to two knobs, but one pitch changes as well as adjusting frequency.

This is how he consistently butchers all his tracks live.

Aside from that, not much goes on. A good portion of the knobs are unassigned. he seems to have "Yes, Oh My God!" and a few other of his notable vocal samples assigned to the pads so he can bring them in before a drop. Lovely.

He doesn't beatmatch. Ableton does. And when even Ableton can't mix his shit, he gives up and just does stupid shit with his effects and tempo. There is nothing interesting going on stage at all.

Take a look at this video, you can clearly see the screen of his laptop and exactly what he's doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvDmjc16ysA

Note that only two knobs do anything. Both the beat-repeat stutter. One pitch adjust, other non-pitch adjust.

Only external effect is on the mixer, which is Only used for effects, in this video he does a filter and flanger, both built into that particular mixer.

He's swiping around trying to find the next song to play before clicking it, then letting Ableton drop it in time with the beat, then he does his little crosefade, then some brodiving.

Now back on his productions.

Notice the moment he leaves mau5trap and starts his "OWSLA" label, he loses all his decent bass and relies entirely on two or three presets that he managed to keep.

He kept some pointless sample and presets, which have been recycled over and over (You may recognize the same whining saw and the same grinding high-wubs with little alteration consistently in each of his new tracks).

Any growls that you still here are from his former samples that he kept. He lacks the technical ability to make decent sounding growls anymore, as he never made them in the first place.

You will notice the over-use of the massive "modern talking" wavetable on his new EP. This is his replacement for "his" FM8 growls that he doesn't know how to make.

Sxrrillex is a fraud. There is Sonny Moore Skrillex, responsible for the mess of the latest EP and the first EP, and then there is 'collabrative skrillex' made up of superior sound designers, who built his songs for him. And they will build no more, because he's a lying little gollum looking imp. The facts are there if you look hard enough.

Edit:
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9582/skrillexscreenfu.jpg

A little recreation image of what's going on his screen.http://i.imgur.com/GKYsk.gif

big eddie

big eddie said on the 17th Jan, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw9CALKOvAI%26start=140

imo

draz

draz said on the 17th Jan, 2012

i hate dubstep, but at the end of the day everyones different, different music for different tastes

dragonsfire

dragonsfire said on the 18th Jan, 2012

i want to read all the comment but i have work to do so i hope i am not repeating any one. what the KIDS like seems to make a shit load of money so you will always get a lot of hangers on some crap some good some artists some just plain greedy ass C@#TS

beathoven

beathoven said on the 18th Jan, 2012

Rusko hit the nail on the head. Dub-step has become an audio assault powered by 'Massive', over compression and smiley face EQ's. There's almost no element of sound design or musicality to it.
That's not to say it's all bad. Out of this over-sensationalised genre emerged some new genres; From Moombahton, Complextro or just 'Bass music' in general to Dub-style.
This sound cannot be any more refuted than fidget house, who's legitimacy as a genre has yet to have been brought into question.
This recently expanding sound fills a need: the void left from the now dead 'house-electro' genre [thanks Guetta]. It's a trend in sound and sound style. Unfortunately It's commercialisation has brought 'dubstep' as a whole to the cusp of pop music with the likes of LMFAO, Snoop Dogg, Flo Rida and apparently Bieber sponging off its popularity.
If we are to look at 'bass music' as a genre without the hype, it is a legitimate style, and to say otherwise is just musical bigotry. It's not the style that is the Foe, it is the commercialisation of the style.
What im getting at is this;
Yes, this bass-heavy brostep hype has gone too far, become too comercial and is quite frankly over-rated, but beneath the craziness lies a genre which has a place in EDM and has influenced the direction of some dance genres (From Electro to Harder styles).

Weinertron

Weinertron said on the 19th Jan, 2012

lol @ Kiron's diatribe. Liked for effort.

As for the dubstep debate, I have nothing to add. I loved it when I was going to parties in the park in 2008 when it was fresh and something new (and I was heavily into DnB at the time so they complemented each other nicely).

Now, I shudder at the word Dubstep (even though I know there is plenty of good stuff out there) mainly because I know what to expect when i go see a live gig; a bunch of rude kids who dress horribly and who have never felt the PLUR.

And that's what it's all about really. PLUR. I don't find dubstep very PLUR enducing, regardless of how awesome the sub-genre in question happens to be.


Also, someone also mentioned the heart-rate thing earlier. I couldn't agree more. A good party would start out at 125bpm and slowly rise to 140-145bpm and beyond creating a progression which you can FEEL and take part in (ie. dancing). Dubstep has got none of that which I find difficult to understand. AND it's probably a reason most old-school EDMers don't like dubstep either.

Yasoda

Yasoda said on the 19th Jan, 2012

What do Lee Scratch Perry and Borgore have in common?

Yasoda

Yasoda said on the 19th Jan, 2012

the answer is misogyny - "pussy may come and pussy may go but jesus christ remains" - Lee Scratch Perry, Sydney, 2009

"Act like a ho. Girl, take example from these bitches. In bed act like a ho but first do the dishes" Borgore, Sydney 2011.

Now THAT is something to get mad about. Not whether sounds are evolving and the sound that you prefer is more or less popular than it should be. No point getting mad about that... you are in charge of your own ipod, play what you like!

Can I win a car now?

Yasoda

Yasoda said on the 19th Jan, 2012

What do do Lee Scratch Perry and Borgore have in common??


The answer is misogyny - "pussy may come and pussy may go but jesus christ remains" - Lee Scratch Perry, Sydney, 2009

"Act like a ho. Girl, take example from these bitches. In bed act like a ho but first do the dishes" Borgore, Sydney 2011.

Now THAT is something to get mad about. Not whether sounds are evolving and the sound that you prefer is more or less popular than it should be. No point getting mad about that... you are in charge of your own ipod, play what you like!

Can I win a car now?

Yasoda

Yasoda said on the 19th Jan, 2012

ITM... why is double post. That is more annoying than Skrillex requests when you're trying to do a dubstep set. plz fix?

LunarCat

LunarCat said on the 19th Jan, 2012



As the saying goes - I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Oh those kids, it's just embarrasing. :what:

As for the debate, I've nothing more to add. Indeed, Bede says it right that Brostep and other noise are ruining the name of Dubstep. We could have a debate that goes - Skrillex: Dubstep's friend or foe?

Saliki

Saliki said on the 19th Jan, 2012



I think another issue is the fact that a lot of pop music is referred to as 'electronic music' in its own right, and many would consider Skrillex to be both 'pop music' and 'proper electronic music'. It is this prevailing overlap in between the pop / underground - something not new for EDM - just new to dubstep. And so the debate re-ignites.

RunningWithScissors

RunningWithScissors said on the 20th Jan, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4S2gWfA6QQ

Wowk

Wowk said on the 20th Jan, 2012

Ultimately this is just another genre in a never-ending cycle of watering-down a style of music to make it digestible by people who don't want to think too hard, and the subsequent gradual descent into crap that becomes the prominent "face" of the music, even though it's so far removed from the actual aesthetics of the sound that it doesn't deserve to carry the name of that genre. This happens repeatedly in dance music. It happened to vocal house, it happened to trance, it happened to "electro", it happened to garage, and now it's happening to dubstep.

Wowk

Wowk said on the 20th Jan, 2012

Anyone notice how in the video Kiron posted the mixer is FULL REDLINE. Jesus, so not only does he make horrible music, he doesn't understand the basics of level control when playing.

Deekayed

Deekayed said on the 20th Jan, 2012

Im up for the change...porter robinsons stuff freakn rocks i love where its headn

Space_man

Space_man said on the 20th Jan, 2012

The main problem for me is the nomenclature ... there's nowt dubby about Skrillex and its ilk.


I had a fellow co-worker ask me for some "dub" as some folks have shortened "dubstep" to now ... so i gave them some dubs ... and some lo-slung dubstep ... they were disappointed and said there was too much slow stuff and Jamaican stuff ... nomenclature problem IMO.





Yeah i have run into this problem also, people talking to me about dub, me getting confused and then understanding they are talking about dubSTEP. Trying to explain how shorting the name brings an unnecessary element of ambiguity to the conversation, without trying to be too much of a dork about it.

Your work mates should be happy, listening to artist such as King Tubby, The Upsetter, Sly & Robbie, Roots Radics Band, The Crystalites etc is an adventure into another time and place where making music was not a function of the ego, but of the soul. Where music was an artform open to free thought, experimentation, risk taking and not bound by the constraints of the status quo.

Space_man

Space_man said on the 21st Jan, 2012

It is amazing that we are talking about Dubstep and so much of the conversation is based around Skrillex! Has everyone totally discarded the London origins of the sound, guys like Skream, Benga, Kode9, Loefah, Digital Mystikz, Pinch, Scuba, Distance etc???

Skrillex for mine isn't really dubstep, yes he is heavily influenced by and takes elements of Brostep and uses it in his productions. The downsampled/Vowel bass sounds was not a staple of early dubstep pioneered by the London guys i mentioned before. It was a sound that was more indicative of the sound coming out of Canada (Excision/Datsik/Rottun Records) circa 2008/09, which when it hit the Sydney scene not so much at Void but at Low society gigs, it was great and the parties went off. Anywho back to Skrillex, his heavy reliance on electro for his melodies and the over all cleanness of his productions isn't a characteristic of dubstep, after all dubstep is a lo fi sound! His drums and basslines sound way too clean, for mine. There is a certain lo fi, grit, muddy feel to dubstep, lots of white noise in the snares, oscillators pitched down 2 octaves etc, without this low tech atmosphere dubstep losses it edge. Also he lacks the linage to be a proper steppa, he never grew up on 2 step/garage, jungle etc he isn't from croydon, not that lineage is really a huge issue in dance music unlike urban but once you add this the other points i have stated then the argument is overwhelming.

To call Skrillex productions Dubstep is an insult to both the artist and the genre, Skirllex has transcended both dubstep and electro and created something totally different. Maybe this is why he polarises the opinion of so many people, i dont know, but the man is a talent no doubt.

/end rant

jramsden04

jramsden04 said on the 22nd Jan, 2012

It gets a bit much after a while...:boring:

SP3KTR

SP3KTR said on the 23rd Jan, 2012

evolve or die, so it's all good in my opinion. i give props to skrillex for being (in)famous for breaking into the scene. dubstep is good to kick back to, but if i go to party at a festival - i want that heavy energy that brostep is bringing. i hope i hear 'Get Up!' at FMF'12 :P

wheelo007

wheelo007 said on the 26th Jan, 2012

I had some time for Dubstep in it's initial form back a few years ago but have gotten a bit sick of hearing the same samples being used to death. I think that like every Genre which exists, a long period of transition occurs during which the genre will diversify and settle.
In terms of lifespan of most existing genres, Dubstep is still in it's infancy and I hope that 5 years from now it is still a style that people invest time into producing. The fad of rehashing samples just to get some attention and play-time will fizzle out as quickly as the attention spans of the people who are writing/listening to it. Poorly produced music is poorly produced music and people will only listen to sh it for so long.

Personally, I've done a turn around from the post-dub sound and am now obsessively back into deep and jackin/funky house and I'm sure I'm not the only musician/fan on the planet who's music tastes 'evolve' over time...
So, to my delight, there's enough clubs and festivals playing brostep at the moment to free up space for me to stand out and make a mark in a genre that these kids will discover (or rediscover) in a couple of years.

larrisajones

larrisajones said on the 27th Jan, 2012

As a big fan of dubstep I also feel that cringe when I have to admit to it, as the sound people commonly associate dubstep as being is far from the sound I fell in love with.

Sure enough when dubstep developed out of the garage scene it had no boundaries but two key driving factors - sub bass and space. At the core of it its the replacement of sub bass with mid range screech and the total elimination of the dub element that throws out most heads and ruffles most feathers.

While this conversation twenty years ago was about hardcore and ten years ago was about trance and breaks but at least those genres went on to be other genres rather than still clinging onto the genre they grew out of's name. In the case of dubstep all the hallmarks that allow you to identify a track as dubstep are not present in the (primarily) US wave of tracks and artists.

You can't blame promoters or even artists - there is quite clearly a market for that sound. There are thousands of angry kids around the world that want big angry music to jump up and down to. However confront them with a 'real' dubstep bassline and they just look confused (believe me I've seen it happen).

And so to me the question really is, if dubstep is the skrillex sound, is it still feasible to class old school dubstep as dubstep if this is no longer representative of the genre? Afterall if i was after the next skrillex and picked up an old DMZ release I'd be as gutted as the head that goes to a dubstep gig and is confronted only with brostep in all it's shirtless glory.

On a positive note at least brostep made wobble sound fucking fantastic.

lewis20444

lewis20444 said on the 27th Jan, 2012

dubstep sucks, it has no good qualitys or meaning, i prefer stuff like the aston shuffle

Weqster

Weqster said on the 1st Feb, 2012

I love hearing all sorts of bass music mixed together. I would never listen to a 'dubstep' album, but if the liquid dnb mix im pumping pushes into some harder dnb then some deep dub with a wobbly bassline out of no where, i definatly loose my shiet.


every time dubstep is played on radio out of a mono speaker, baby jesus cries. and thats what brostep is for me, the sound of a over amplied clipping woofer. fully sick yuleh.

uncle_friday

uncle_friday said on the 8th Feb, 2012

i think james blake said it best, something about dubstep losing its original meaning and reverting back to some frat boi bragging bullshit of 'how filthy is that bass.' i love how skillex 'stands' for something so masculine to these guys all while his gay...

Weinertron

Weinertron said on the 9th Feb, 2012

^hahaha I'm reading your post and watching your avatar say it. funneh

jmtam

jmtam said on the 5th Mar, 2012

uk music has always lived underground. once it hits the surface (ie. america and abroad) the producers stop producing it and move on.

jmtam

jmtam said on the 5th Mar, 2012

garage went strange when it hit the charts, and people stopped making it. same with dubstep. but there's always some that hold true to the traditional sound i guess.

FWD is still alive with dubstep. every week it's packed and crowds go insane. not just sweating, bulky guys either; it's a 60:40.

93 DJs

93 DJs said on the 10th Mar, 2012

eh, its peaked, before we know it it will be as underground as before; only this time it wont be because no one knows about it, but rather because the wave of commercial success it has received will fall leading to only the true fans who were there before still liking the music

Danizm

Danizm said on the 13th Mar, 2012

for the most part dubstep is wack, there is a slight few tracks with good production, but thats just my opinion. the thing that annoys me these days is that kids jump on the latest bandwagon and blindly follow each other onto the next big thing.. be original and be creative! go back in time to find out what real music was all about!

ArmySniperDan

ArmySniperDan said on the 1st Sep, 2012

more like Dumbstep or Lamestep