Re: philip ruddock can eat a dick

[neverforgetthis]

try a visa
or live in a cage
no disrespect meant but dont we have enough problems to deal with?
last thing we need is another homeboy posse
that isnt to say all imegrants become posses but find the aussie is getting harder
props to legal immegrants
not to boat people.
skills not bills

[notoriousITM]

did anyone watch a current affair tonight? they had a story about some of the tampa refugees who were sent to new zealand to be processed. about 100 of the 400 or so refugees were sent there.

points worth mentioning

* each refugee in NZ was found a home to live in which wasnt a cage in the middle of the desert. a proper home. and clothes and gifts and toys for their kids and training for jobs and support for getting used to the new lifestyle/environment. and they are allowed to leave their homes when ever they want all they have to do is sign out.

* all of the 100 refugees in NZ have already been processed. compared to the years and years it takes in australia. and every single one was found to be a genuine refugee. not one terrorist or criminal or 'illegal queue jumper'.

* it cost the NZ government around $1 million dollars to process them. this is hard to compare against what the Australian government spent/spends because they wont tell us the figures. so far we know that they [we] have paid Nauru $30 million in 'sweetners' to accept the 300 other refugees. add onto this the cost of sending the army and navy there, the transport of the refugees, the accomodation they had to build, the food and water they have to fly there every week to support them, the administration staff that work there and also have to live, and the cost of processing the refugees anyway. i'm sure there is probably more the nauruians(?) are screwing out of the goverment.

Amnesty International has pointed out how inhumane the conditions are.
and everytime i hear about the refugees in detention centres it makes me embarassed and depressed to be an australian. hunger strikes, riots, self mutilation, suicides... its all fu.cked. <blink>Philip Ruddock can eat a dick.</blink> He looks like some dude from South African apartheid. Or better yet the emperor from Star Wars and just as evil.

[BlissBomb]

For the record I would just like to say that the "......(inset name here) can go eat a dick" line is trademarked and copyright Sway Pty Ltd.

[Newman27]

yah i watched a bit of it.. didn't know it was on..

rudduck and the crew try to work out really complicated solutions to try to get the generall public interested and think "hey his doing something".. really the answer is right at our doorstep but he is sucked into politics to much he can't realize whats going on in the real world.

[meandarkdirty]

I hate to see what's going to happen if the war moves to Iraq. It's relatively hard to get out of Afgahnistan but Iraq has very good transport channels. We're whinging about a couple of hundred Afghanis. After such a long period of tyrrany and sanctions I can see a mass exodus from Iraq if a serious war starts.

[notoriousITM]

1) neverforgetthis - if you're going to join a discussion about immigration atleast go to the effort to learn how to spell it first.

2) blissbomb - go listen to dr. dre - the chronic or pretty much anything by Eazy-E.

3) meandarkdirty - http://www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/background/wtc_afghanrefugees.html

there are ~3.5 million afghani immigrants in iran and pakistan at the moment. we couldnt even accept 400. in the year 2000 canada accepted 2,537 afghani immigrants and a total of 227,209 immigrants in general for that year. we didnt even fill our quote of 16,000.

http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/+DwwBm7ewAbdwwwwnwwwwwwwhFqoUfIfRZ2ItFqtxw5oq5zFqt FEIfgIAFqoUfIfRZ2IDzmxwwwwwww1FqtFEIfgI/opendoc.htm

'who is a refugee?'
a refugee is a person who "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country."

http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/+PwwBmeMu5BswwwwnwwwwwwwhFqnN0bItFqnDni5AFqnN0bIcF qzw15BGwcowMzmwwwwwwwwDzmxwwwwwwwdFqidGmnGaxOa-uPPyER0ay0Ig/opendoc.htm
"The applications of Afghani asylum seekers have been subject to a processing freeze since the overthrow of the Taliban regime late last year, when the government said it was reassessing conditions in their homeland."

i could go on and on...

<i> go to bed jessica... </i>

[hmiller72]

Apart from spelling and definitions...whats your point?

[notoriousITM]

um, that they couldve saved all that money by processing them in australia.
sorry. its 3am and i'm narcy narc.

[notoriousITM]

or new zealand ;)

[Sherbos]

<i>hunger strikes, riots, self mutilation, suicides</i><br><br>

I don't want a person who is willing to involve children in things like this in my country - I don't give a @!#$ what nationatlity you are, any person that sews a child's lips together is the scum of the earth and should be shot.

[mostly_harmless]

i'd like all those people who are happy we're turning away desperate refugees, yet who also believe the 'alleged' terrorist hicks should be returned to australia for 'fair treatment', to raise their hands

now hand me that sniper rifle

[boz-e]

is it really that expensive for the government to hire a few more staff to process these claims?

[drew]

sydney needs more cab drivers

[Shock]

LOL at drew..... thats funny shiit :)

[Beegie]

Phil Ruddock can eat a dick... but the asylum seekers can't- their lips are sewn together...

Keep it hungry

[Technogeekery]

Eat a dick. why does that sound so familiar? Were you notorious on bluelight too?

[Oli-G]

Sherbos... have you ever heard of desperation???

you prolly couldnt relate from your comfortable middle class life

[Sherbos]

excuses, excuses. It is not in human nature for a parent to harm their own child no matter how desperate a situation becomes...

I'm not commenting at all on the conditions in any of these centres because I don't know what they're like but I do know that the above is true.

[mostly_harmless]

sherbos, that is bs

[Sherbos]

explain.

[mostly_harmless]

one example - the slaughter of female babies in china due to a male child being more valuable to the family

perhaps your definition of 'human nature' is different to mine, but human nature includes lots of nasty things

[phunkyp]

sherbos is right, that is extremely wrong for anyone to do that to children.

but then they are being kept in the most auspicious surroundings are they??

(having 2 bob each way here... )

[buda]

boring. this topic has been done. keep politics off itm.

watch out. trist will lend his wisdom soon.

[mostly_harmless]

i think we're heading away from politics onto morals :s

[Sherbos]

Was just about to say the same thing as buda... I'm not going to comment anymore because we won't get anywhere.

Have a nice day.

[notoriousITM]

<i> I don't want a person who is willing to involve children in things like this in my country - I don't give a @!#$ what nationatlity you are...</>

meanwhile our governor general continues to represent our country even after admitting to covering up sexual abuse in an australian anglican church school.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2001/12/item20011214035431_1.htm&e=925
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,3626351%255E2702,00.html

<i>dont think your @!#$ dont stink...</i>

[Sherbos]

They should kick the governor general out too then.

oops, I commented.

[berniebern]

A story can always seem to appear negative when only one side of it is told.

[notoriousITM]

defending abusers... braaaa-vo...

[berniebern]

Kiwi's are always trying to compete with Australia.

Who's to say that all the 'good' NZ has done for the refugees is not just a publicity stunt ?

[mostly_harmless]

lol. bloody kiwis, always trying to make us aussies look bad

[Doh]

"in the year 2000 canada accepted 2,537 afghani immigrants and a total of 227,209 immigrants in general for that year. we didnt even fill our quote of 16,000"

Best not get general immigration and refugees confused. I'm pretty sure we accepted over 100,000 immigrants last year. The refugee situation is bad but what is the point of a united nations can't create and enforce a policy.

If someone has a desire to live in another country then they should respect the cultures within that country. Sowing your childrens lips together is unacceptable and makes that parent undesirable as an immigrant. It is unfortunate that the majority of afghani asylum seekers lack basic education and this needs to be dealt with.

[diego_marajuana]

the bro's in nu zealand have shown us how its done. ruddock you suck more cock then the entire advertising team @ PLASTIC!

swallow the cum (and your pride) and start keepin it REAL!

[mmac]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/23/national/national1.html

[drew]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/23/opinion/opinion6.html

[Sherbos]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0201/16/opinion/opinion5.html

That's gold. Cop that you sheep shaggers.

[drew]

"Let's get this straight. The story in the Rings revolves around a race of short, slightly furry creatures who are none too bright but relatively loyal in a tight spot. If this doesn't scream the middle bit of ANZAC, I can't imagine what would."

bwahahahahahaha!!!!!

[Shif_T]

sway pty ltd plagirised it...

i don't know, but from observation historically, the first people to escape a country in a time of turmoil are the criminals with money...durrrno...but i'm sure it wasn't a cheap journey to come to australia, and i'm sure they didn't just "loose" their papers.....

[GfunK]

agree with sherbos, @!#$ anyone who mutilates a baby is an animal and shuld be shot.

does this mean that if they were starving they'd eat their kids?


notorious, you just like to bitch, if you were such a humanitarian, you'd be out doin something, not sittin on your ass whingin.

[Shif_T]

they didn't mutilate a baby...it was 12. didn't even look human. easy mistake...

[mad-hatter]

notorious i completely agree wif u
ruddock is a racist redneck who doesnt know @!#$ about whats good for this country
It is actually costing us more to keep immigrants locked up in detention centres for years than to process them into our country giving them initial financial support so that they can get a job and then put back into the country thus adding to our economy.
Media hype and racist attitudes have reinforced the idea that we should allow minimum immigrants into our country... we have one of the lowest quotas in the world, lock desperate pple up who have come here out of desperation, only to be treated like they r in prison.
iF we r going to contintue with this attitude then we shouldnt be calling ourself a humanitarian country...

[mostly_harmless]

damn right. it's an embarrassment

[danaele]

Im with nortorious, its embarrassing! We're humiliated the world over because of our treatment to these people. We're one of the most multicultural countries in the world, and thats what makes Aust so amazing.

I do think there should be regulations/rules in regards to the immigrants. I'm not saying they can just hop along on the dole. I think we should open up our limitations when it comes to legal immigrants, in the hope that there will be a decrease of illegal ones. Perhaps they have to live in the country/farm for two years before being allowed to live in the city? Who knows. (not a v.good suggestion mind u)

But how can u justify caging humans up for this long? What must have happened to them that the only alternative was to slash their own wrists, and hunger strike their own children? These people came here in the hope of finding freedom, and a chance to let their family survive. What have u got to say for yourself when these people would prefer to commit suicide than live another day in Australia?

My 2c. - D

[BlissBomb]

No, im serious. Sway has really registered that as her trade mark. *nods*
<br>
She will now be known as the "Go Eat A Dick Girl formally known as Suae"
<br>
<br>
<i>Every word is true Senõr</I>

[summa]

umm...dude...if u had known nothing but violence, hunger, war, persecution and poverty most or all of your life, and then flee to a country that u believe will provide a peaceful life for u and u'r family..BUT instead, u soon find u'rself incarcerated and living in inhumane conditions, then maybe...just maybe...u might be driven to such xtreme acts of desperation....im sure that, that'd be very hard for u to imagine...im assuming u've never been outside u'r comfort zone.
these acts are committed by people suffering from xtreme depression, post traumatic stress disorder and/or xtreme anxiety- all classified as forms of mental illness
theyr not 'scum of the earth' and no, they dont 'deserve to be shot'...
its funny that so many people who'd be quick to support the 'war on terrorism', in the name of and 'peace' and 'freedom', can so easily make references to violence against another human being (eg. like shooting them!!).

general note: if u'r going ot have an opinion about an issue, make sure u take a little time out of u'r day to actually learn some facts.

lets all try and be a little more compassionate & understanding.

summa

[hmiller72]

You really have not sweetened the deal by outlining the fact that we would be accepting the mentally ill. Just the type we want.

[summa]

just giving our stall a plugg..
anyone who wants to know more about the plight of refugees or just wanna show u'r support, drop by our stall at BDO.

c u there
summa :o)

[hmiller72]

will you have demonstrations on white women raping?

[Globule]

Sherbos - quote from your SMH link:
"What we are left with is the pathetic sight of our Kiwi cousins boasting about how great the scenery looks."
- now if that is not pure childish jealousy I dont know what is...

For the record I find the term "Sheep Shagger" quite offensive as a kiwi, especially when very little shagging of sheep actually takes place - it is usually just cunnilingus.

[MadMike]

It takes so long because we get so many.

It takes so long because we have limited resources.

It takes so long because the illegals should be dealt with after the legals.

It takes so long because we have to sort the genuine from the bullshit claims for refugee status.

It takes so long because they destroy identification documents before they get here.

It takes so long because if it looks like @!#$, smells like @!#$ and tastes like @!#$. It probably is @!#$. (Yeah explain to me why these 'refugees' are often found to
have maps of their villages)

Oh yeah. Whoope-dee-farking-doo if New Zealand puts them up in nice houses. They've done this based on the assumption that these people are who they say they are. Assessing a refugees' claim is a lot harder if they arrive with nothing. (Can you see a reason for a process here people???). You do understand that the term 'illegal' means just that. I wouldn't want to be the person to turn around to the public and say "Oh by the way, a few of those people we put up were societal parasites looking for a free ride. Your tax dollars really helped them out though!"

<b>MM</b> used to work for the Dept of Immigration and is sick of bleeding hearts.

Caveat Emptor: I'm all for people following the process and being processed if they have a genuine claim. I just despise the pricks who spoil it for those who really need it.

[Sherbos]

It's all good natured ribbing Glob. - something that both the Aussies and the Kiwis handle well.

Summa you quote me out of context.

IN MY OPINION - if you harm a child, I do not care what your reasoning is, you are a scumbag and should be dealt with accordingly. Simple as that.

[diego_marajuana]

fair points MadMichael.

however, still doesnt change the fact that Phil Ruddock should go eat a dick. not may of us look outside the square we live in, but ask your friends overseas about how our reputation is going to utter @!#$.... thanks mainly to the incompetent handling of the situation by senor Ruddock.

eg check the latest backflip by him, re: processing their applications extra quickly now....... what a DICK!

oh yeah, dont expect a pat on the back for being an aussie when you walk into an overseas bar right now..

[berniebern]

We also have one of the smallest population : land mass ratios in the world mad-hatter.

[MadMike]

And only 6% of Australia is arable land....

I know, lets stick em out in the desert. Oh wait, we already do.

<b>MM</b>

[Doh]

Wrong diego. Many western nations have an educated appreciation of our limited resources. They are also not keen on people who break the law before even setting foot in the country. Just look at the problem the british have with the channel tunnel, the americans have with the mexican border etc etc. The media would like you to think the world is against us but the reality is our proportion of LEGAL immigrants per head of overall population is well above average. The immigration of skilled people to our shores each year is something we should be proud of.

[mostly_harmless]

"The media would like you to think the world is against us but..."

you imply that the world isn't 'against us', yet australia is more and more being condemned by the international community for its stance on asylum seekers. i'm aware from my friends in the uk that australia's name is mud overseas. the united nations is telling us that our policies are unnecessary and unacceptable

australia stands alone in the world on insisting that arrivals who do not hold valid visas - whether they are asylum seekers or not - are held in detention for 'processing'. we are imprisoning people whose only crime is arriving here without a valid visa, regardless of the circumstances which led them here. it is about as blatant an abuse of human rights as you can get

experience has shown that asylum seekers can be integrated into the community whilst they are processed. it happens in many other countries, without any terrifying collapse in social structures

oops i've gone on a bit

[Doh]

"australia stands alone in the world on insisting that arrivals who do not hold valid visas - whether they are asylum seekers or not - are held in detention for 'processing"

Are you sure?

I have friends and family in the UK also who congratulate Australia for dealing with a problem that they have themselves. Maybe its a case of reading the Sun or the Times.

I'm not condoning their conditions of detainment nor the length of time for processing. Bad news gets better coverage than good news. Watch the movie 15 minutes for a parody of this fact.

[diego_marajuana]

Doh: are U retarded?

who gives a rats ass that a minority of people in a minority of countries are behind phil ruddocks stance.

thats one of the dumbest things ive heard in a long while.

[Dano]

>but human nature includes lots of nasty things

Yes, like a small man with really big hair and a best of album

[mmac]

Again we see the pejorative language of the anti-immigrationists.

"IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE A REFUGEE.

International conventions to which Australia is a signatory provide people with the legal right to flee persecution or seek a better life if they have been displaced from their homes.

The only real illegal immigrants in Australia are those who have illegally overstayed their visas, the vast majority of whom are British tourists, living free in the community, not locked up in detention centres."

(From the last time this debate reared its ugly head on ITM.)

Regardless of whether you agree with the government's inhumane policy or not (and if you're a sentient, free-thinking member of the human race I can't see how you would agree with it) the fact that it raises so much heated debate goes some way to show that it's not working.

[Sherbos]

Good to see you can take the moral highground mmac - you are so much better than us. Say hi to God whilst you're in heaven and I'm burning in hell.

[mostly_harmless]

nice one dano :-)

[Doh]

I like it! Someone using marajuana in their post name lowering the discussion with unfounded accusations of mental disabilities and offering nothing else.

[mostly_harmless]

Doh i got that info from
http://www.amnesty.org.au/airesources/newsletterOct2001/Detention.html

[diego_marajuana]

i could scratch my balls and it'd be a more valid point then the ones you've made here, Doh.

and the accusations of mental disability are not unfounded. read your crap again. you'd have to be mentally challenged to believe the world thinks the sun shines out of australia's arse, as you imply.

[trist]

some of the bleeding heart attitudes on itm still amaze me. Go wash your Che Gavara t-shirts boys and girls, you have been wearing them for far too long.

well done to Sherbos, berniebern, hmiller and MM for speaking your minds and not being intimidated by the barrage of left wing, insulting dribble.

Trist.

[mmac]

Sherbos: it's not a matter of "taking the moral high ground." It's a matter of what is right and what is wrong. It's a matter of how we, as human beings, treat other human beings.

I notice a lot of you were quick to castigate the refugees for sewing their childrens' lips together. Well, the *fact* is that there were 64 detainees who indulged in this behaviour, only *one* of whom was a minor. And if you were so concerned about the poor children and the harm done to them, you would be an outspoken critic of this government's policy of locking them up for years on end. In Sweden, a child cannot be imprisoned for more than 7 days, under *any* circumstances, and even then it requires court authority to do so.

In Australia, they grow up in captivity.

Trist: left or right wing politics has nothing to do with it. This is about human rights. Organisations like Human Rights Watch, Care International and Amnesty International have all strongly condemned Australia's imprisonment of refugees. Those organisations are, by their very nature, apolitical.

Some of you need to walk a mile in someone else's shoes methinks. Or - at the very least - get on the 'net and educate yourself as to what conditions in these camps are like and the multi-faceted mental and (often) physical short- and long-term damaging effects being caged in these places has on people.

Especially children.

[Sherbos]

Nobody is arguing that current policy is ideal, I agree that there are some major changes that need to take place - however certain acts are inexcusable.

Evryone is quick to have a whinge about the government doing this or not doing that - nobody offers any legitimate alternatives.

I agree with Trist here completely... I don't care if that makes me unhip or anti-PLUR or some similar crap, it's the way I think and I it's anybody's place to judge that.

[fUnKy1]

I'm not gonna get myself too involved in this...most of you guys are pretty used to me and my "left wing"/"uni student"/"hippy" views (your words, not mine). But i have been reading since this post started, and this is all i will say:

I'm with you mmac, notoriousitm and all the others who believe the treatment of the refugees is wrong and inhumane. You've said everything i would have said, and this time i'm not losing my block about it (cos i've kept my distance).

fUnKy1 - taking a break

[diego_marajuana]

keep it real :P

[mostly_harmless]

yeah it's all a bit fraught in here! i was gonna leave it alone but i just wanted to say that there ARE alternatives. as i mentioned earlier, australia is the only country that pursues this indiscriminate policy of detaining <b>all</b> illegal entrants. the uk is an island too, and is equally prone to the problem of illegal immigrants. but there the people are allowed to live a <i>human</i> life in the community whilst being processed. sure there are problems, but none that compare with the needless, unfair and inhumane treatment of innocent people we see here :(

[MadMike]

mmac - Its interesting to note the language you use.

You choose the word 'captivity'. Am emotive word often associated with ill-treatment of animals. Bravo for your word association game. :)

Juvenile detention is a tricky issue. Obviously you need to balance the parent/child nurturing relationship against security concerns. I have no easy answer. Spend more money on a 'nicer' yet still secure centre? Separate the children so they do not have to experience 'captivity'? Let them all out and hope nobody does a runner? (yeah right.....)

Consider this: A whole bunch of alleged refugee seekers arrive at Australias' shores without following the requisite procedures. I'll pluck a figure out of the air and say that 99% of these people have lead an existence fraught with anguish and suffering. These are the people who satisfy the requirements to meet refugee status. Then there is the 1% who have lied, are trying to cheat they system, are trying to escape punishment, are here to cause damage to society, etc, etc..

When these people arrive we do not know who is who. There is a due process in place to keep these undesirable people out. This process is as thorough as possible and therefore takes a significant amount of time. The system is <i>not designed to let people in, it is designed to keep them out</i>. This is a product of a national belief in insularity. Our very desire to protect our own interests. I suggest that before you could 'change the system' to be more welcoming to refugees you would need to change a national groupthink. A worthy ambition though...

Honestly, if you can come up with a solution I'm sure the government would be glad to hear a proposal. Boat people will be a thorn in their side so long as Australia is seen as an attractive destination with seemingly inadequate border control.

One more thought. Australia is a relatively violence free society (compared to many places). What impact would a sudden influx of people brought up in a society indoctrinated with violence would that have on our populace? When kids who have AK47s in their hands at the age of 12 get here, what sense of restraint do they have with regard to violence? I don't know. It's just a thought. Maybe moving here would provide a breeding ground for compassion and understanding. Or maybe they'd move into a community of people with the same ethnic heritage and create a cultural enclave that rejects outsiders. I certainly know there are parts of Sydney I wouldn't walk around in simply because I'm white and 'they' are not.

Just thoughts.... feel free to give me some other viewpoints.. :)

<b>MM</b>

[mmac]

No wuckas, Sherbos, you're entitled to your opinion. I just think it's wrong that the refugees are portrayed as some sort of cultural monsters (Shock! Horror! They sew their childrens' lips together! Freaks!) when in fact the mutilation only occurred on *one* minor. And there's a lack of empathy and understanding as to what would drive people to do it in the first place. We're so busy condemning the act of self-mutilation itself that we fail to ask the question: what desperate state of mind must a human being be in to do such a thing? And what would drive a person to this precarious mental state?

To let one horrendous act on one child dictate a whole policy is abominable. Especially when the act pales into insignificance when compared to the physical and mental abuse which happens on a day-to-day basis right under our noses as a direct result of Australian immigration policy.

And mostly_harmless: they're not illegal. They're perfectly legal under international law. It's only the Liberal Goverment would have you believe otherwise.

[mostly_harmless]

yeah mmac - we are criminalising refugees

and madmike, you were generous with the 99%, though actually i think it'd be a lot higher than that! but can i ask, what are you worried that the evil 1% are going to do? should the innocent 99% really suffer because of the possibility that the 1% are gonna go and do something nasty?

[MadMike]

Anyone want a terrorist to slip in?

<b>MM</b>

[mmac]

MM: don't know if you heard JJJ on Thursday morning, but Francis Leach had a very interesting discussion with the representative for RAR (Rural Australians for Refugees). There were some very worthy - and more importantly workable - solutions that that organisation aired as solutions to the status quo.

The word captivity, incidentally, wasn't meant to be pejorative. I just can't think of another word for keeping a child locked up for three years, as is the case with some young refugees we have here in Australia at the moment.

Remember: Sweden - 7 days. Australia - indefinite. There's right and there's wrong, regardless of politics.

That's why I believe this policy will not last. Because unjust laws are built on rotten foundations. It's inhumane, it's wrong and it will ultimately fail. The question we as Australians (adopted Australian in my case) need to ask is what price are we willing to pay in the meantime?

[mostly_harmless]

a terrorist? what, like david hicks?

a terrorist can get into any country unless he is one of the world's most wanted, with forged documents. i simply can't imagine a terrorist choosing to get into a country on a boat loaded with refugees

[smack bob]

It's easy for the heart to bleed when you are not the one that has to make the decision's. Are you fully informed of the situation? Or have you just been reading the news papers? I have no opinion on Ruddock but why would he be engaging in political suicide and not fast tracking assylum seekers, maybe you right its just because he "eats dick"

When a few of these assylum seekers turn out to be terrorists or other undesirables will it be you guys that wanted to fast track 'em with no other motive than a good heart, that take the blame?

I don't think so, it will be the boogie man government that is to blame because they caved to a few smelly ol' hippies.

on a lighter note hope everyone going to BDO has a mad time, i know i will! :)

[mmac]

LOL!

Yeah, international terrorists always pay some dodgy back alley bloke for the privilege of coming here on some water-logged rickety old floating death trap.

It's simply a measure of their desperation to bring down Western civilization as we know it. They'll do anything the crazy bastards.

[smack bob]

Yeah your right, they ussually hire private jets with OSAMA painted on the side.

[dragonballT]

there are lots of other solutions to this problem being proposed, most people are just not listening and then are basically saying "i know it's not ideal but what else can we do" - check this out for some constructive ideas:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/webdiary/2002/01/23/FFXJ1WYZRWC.html

there are other options. there is a way to reach a middle ground where australia's security is protected along with the human rights of those seeking asylum here. we just have to have the courage to back down from the awful position we have got ourselves as a nation and show some humanity.

[mostly_harmless]

smelly old hippies??! ;)

i think the govt is doing what it's doing cos that's what the majority of the population wants it to do. which i think is pretty sad. in the election both main parties took advantage of and indeed encouraged the electorate's insecurities after sept 11, and in my opinion it really brought out the worst in people

i just hope that people can start to see the situation more objectively and more humanely. if hating to see the unnecessary suffering of the innocent makes me a bleeding heart then so be it

anyways have fun at bdo! i'm off to gk, should also be a mad time :)

[MadMike]

"a terrorist can get into any country unless he is one of the world's most wanted, with forged documents. i simply can't imagine a terrorist choosing to get into a country on a boat loaded with refugees"

nitpick...nitpick...

FINE.

What about a criminal trying to escape conviction?

A paedophile.
A rapist.
Whoever writes the Vengaboys lyrics.
A serial killer.

<b>MM</b>

[Twiddle Bug]

concentration camp
noun
Date: 1901
: a camp where persons (as prisoners of war, political prisoners, or refugees) are detained or confined

It's a horrific word isn't it? But that's what we're running. Our concentration camps are benign compared to Hitler's, certainly, but they're concentration camps nonetheless.

One day, our grandchildren, or great grandchildren will learn about what we did to these people in history class, as a means of "never repeating the mistakes of the past". I wonder what we'll tell them when they ask us how we could let it happen?

[MadMike]

<img src="http://members.optushome.com.au/madmike/posts/wagon1.jpg">

<b>MM</b>

[mostly_harmless]

MM - you put up an argument, i countered it

and any large enough group of people will contain rapists, serial killers and paedophiles, including those who migrate here legally

but i think you've raised an important point re the vengaboys lyricists. they should be stopped at all costs

[Sherbos]

"and any large enough group of people will contain rapists, serial killers and paedophiles, including those who migrate here legally"

These aren't let in.

[mostly_harmless]

i bet they are

(lots and lots of money)

btw i was talking about potential baddies, not convicted ones

[MadMike]

"any large enough group of people will contain rapists, serial killers and paedophiles, including those who migrate here legally"

Not if they have a criminal record. They get bounced at the door. Hence a reason for sneaking in.

<img src="http://members.optushome.com.au/madmike/posts/thusiwin.jpg">

:)

<b>MM</b>

[mostly_harmless]

well i'm off to the pub!

[drew]

mikey walk away from the fucking computer - cold beers at arthouse!

[MadMike]

"i bet they are
(lots and lots of money)"

From the perspective of someone who has worked for the Dept of Immigration doing visa processing, and speaking for innumerable colleagues I've worked with in several different countries, I find that beyond offensive.

You'll be pleased to note that the processing occurs at several leverals and between several different people.

<b>MM</b>

[MadMike]

drew - 20 minutes left... :)

On my way..

<b>MM</b>

[mostly_harmless]

methinks mm missed the point about potential/convicted

but who cares cos it's the weekend! the long weekend!!

[calico]

man MM, I'm speechless. I'm sure you're a nice guy to your suburban, middle to upper class friends and family.

but these are people you're talking about. not paedophiles or criminals or rapists or terrorists. actually these are people Escaping from terror. you seem to make the mistake of thinking that because these people Look like the terrorists, then they probably are terrorists... i'd say this is fundamentally flawed logic (and textbook racism).

[CrackWhore]

QUOTE:
but these are people you're talking about. not paedophiles or criminals or rapists or terrorists. actually these are people Escaping from terror. you seem to make the mistake of thinking that because these people Look like the terrorists, then they probably are terrorists...
/UNQUOTE

When people arrive with no papers, no legal documents, no identification, there is no way of knowing WHAT they were in their former residential territories.

That is why we cannot just allow people to freely migrate here without background checks. Just because look like terrorists doesnt mean they are - but equally, just because they look helpless, doesn't mean all of htem are.

For example the posts about gangs in Sydney, and how people hated the way the outer west is & has become in relation to gangs & violence (recall?). If we'd let people just come here without doing background checks on their history, then who knows how much worse it would be. You could have any potential criminal walk over, and @!#$ such as this (violence & crime) would be much higher.

So why is this different? Sure, perhaps different backgrounds etc come into it, but the ultimate truth in it is htat we wont know until we find out who they are. The only way to find out is to spend time investigating, which makes it harder when people dont have documents.

And regardless of their plight/s, no-one should sew together their childrens mouths. I'm sure the kids didnt say <B>"mummy & daddy! can you make like tonia todman and hem my mouth??"</B>. That's just farking sick. At least go for the self mutilation, and dont harm the harmless.

And while it may only b a sml % of fcuk knuckles that are not going to play by the rules, they ultimately wreck it for everyone. Which is why they are kinda treated the same. Right or wrong - i aint debating

Yes there are other (more humane & comfortable) ways to counter a problem, but i think they (the govt) are taking a stance and trying to point out to the world (and the potential refugees) that illegal immigration will not be toler8d by the Aussie govt. And being light is not going to get that point across.

(i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this either way in stating that...)

[Alistair]

Hmmmmm lets see if i can remember this correctly...

"They will be processed to see if they are legitimate or illigitimate refugees"
"Mr Ruddock, what define an illegitimate refugee"
"One that is found to be, not legitimate"
"Who would pretend to be a refugee? Sail thousands of miles in dingy boats to get locked up indefinatly in the middle of a desert and then sew their mouths together in protest? What type of circumstances would make someone want to do that if they diddnt have to?"
John Clarke and Brian Dawe on the 7:30 Report tonight...

All you people worried about queue jumping refugees... get a life! These people have gone through hell, risking their lives to come here, and when has a former boat person ever done anything bad to any of you? cause your crime to go up did they? Prob not, as they dont make up a large enough percentage of our demographics... What we have been doing so publically since the middle of last year is FULLY EMBARRASING and for the first time since I was an australian living in asia when the Pauline Hanson thing first broke, i feel embarrased to admit that im australian if this subject even looks like it might be raised. Sure we cant "open the floodgates" (emotive hansonite terminology if i ever saw it) but who says we have to??? If the kiwis can process their 100 tampa refugees, in this time, then we should have at least 100 done as well. Having met Mr Ruddock before, i know its not just him thats causing this almighty clusterfcuk to be as wrong as it is, but please mr howard! Give us a minister with better oration skills as a minister for such a hot portfolio. In 50 years time, kids are going to learn about this in school and ask "why?" just like i did when i was young and getting taught about the anti-chinese racism on the gold fields and the white australia policy.
At least this has taken attention away from having to appologise to anyone.

[hmiller72]

I was a trained sniper when I was with recon platoon,Support Company with 6RAR...so I raise my hand and we could match fieldcraft skills and see who gets the first round down range.

[sleepingMyDayAw]

Afghan guys can avoid 'jumping the queue' buy applying at the UNHCR in Pakistan. A lot easier then shelling out $1,000's to a people smuggler. But they don't want to wait behind everyone else that has applied in Pakistan. (i don't blame them. if i wanted to start a new life in Australia, i wouldn't be keen on waiting.)

there's a bunch of people in Sudan that have zero hope of collecting enough cash to come through the people smuggler route. is it fair that they miss out cuz some guys here chose to go on a hunger strike? in Sudan you might not even have the choice to eat enough food or not, let alone earn $1,000's to pay the smuggler.

aren't the vast majority of refugees processed within 3 months? with only those wishing to continuously appeal staying for years?

however i've worked with a group of guys who came here via boat from Vietnam 20 years ago, and reckon they're 'better australians' than myself and the australian born people i went to school with.

[hmiller72]

Another alternative is to let them land on the cape register as contestants in a new version of Australian Running Man(and woman and child), and without rations,gps and barefoot they have to make it to the nearest point of civilisation, each contestant based on their physicality and history is then given odds with centre bet....then at least if we had money riding on the ragheads we would probably give a shite.

[hmiller72]

Escape and evasion training also known as E&E.

[dilly dally]

lol, ever wondered what the last thread in D/D was about?

the children of itm allways have the same gripes :lol:

[blogggit]

PHILIP RUDDOCK is now Australia's Attorney General.Philip Ruddock is also known as the "Walking Cadaver."
-----------------------------
AUSTRALIA HAS AN OVERSEAS SPOUSE QUOTA FIXED AT 30,000 A YEAR
—————————————
The following is an article from the "Sydney Morning Herald"September, 17th, 1996.
"MIGRANT LAW MAY SEPARATE MARRIED COUPLES
The Government will cap and kill applications by Australians to bring their overseas spouses into Australia a move which would see long-term separations of married couples unless the Opposition allows through the Senate tough new measures to curb applications.
The Minister for Immigration, Mr Ruddock,said the draconian move,allowable under present law but never used in relation to spouses, would help curb huge increases in applications for spouses, some of which were shams, but others 'a fraud on Australians'.
Under present practise,applications for offshore spouses to come are allowed regardless of the quota set.Mr Ruddock wants to enforce his quota by a cap and queue regulation, making applicants after the qouta is reached to wait, possibly for months, until heading the queue for next years intake.
But in the face of Labor opposition in the Senate, he threatened to use his general cap and kill power to terminate applications made post-qouta.This would force Australians to apply again next year on equal terms with next year's applicants, causing indefinite separations.
Mr Ruddock's threat, which contradicts the Coalition's strong pro-family rhetoric but is part of a clampdown on migration numbers,was denounced by Labor's immigration spokeman, Mr Duncan Kerr, as social engineering.
The Opposition last week knocked off in the Senate one of several changes to regulations to tighten elegibility for 'preferential family' migration,available to spouses and aged parents.Mr Kerr told the Herald Labor would also disallow Mr Ruddock's 'cap and queue' regulation.
Mr Ruddock told the Herald that if people who had already applied were allowed in,the progam would overstep this year's 36,700 quota by about 13,000.Rather than allow an overshoot, he would use his general power under current law to cap and kill,unless Labor stopped trying to micro-manage his immigration program by disallowing regulations in the Senate.
Mr Kerr said that 'Australians have always exercised their own choice on who they'll marry,and I don't believe any red-blooded Australian will allow the Government to force couples to queue up to live together.Now he's saying if he can't queue them he'll cut them off.
'If you meet and marry in January,thats OK,but if you're a December bride or groom you mightn't be able to get your spouse in for years.'
Mr Ruddock said he did not regard cap and terminate as the best outcome, but if it is necessary I will be applying it.
He said Labor had maintained a steady 37,000 quota for four years,before lifting it last year to 50,000.Many people had reported partners 'walking out the door as soon as they arrive in Australia.' 'The fraud is being occasioned on Australians by people seeking to migrate,' he said.
Mr Kerr blamed the increase on the wash-up of the Tiananmen Square massacre,under which Labor granted 40,000 Chinese people refugee status.But Mr Ruddock said there rises in applications accross the board, and the percentage increase was as great in England."
------------------------------
JOHN HOWARD-The Lying Rodent.John Howard wants free trade but not the free movement of people.He thinks Australias biggest assets are its sheep, coal and uranium not people.He says he has the final solution to our problems "Too many people."
------------------------------
The Blacklist

"Philip Ruddock gazetted regulations when he was Australia's immigration minister[number S241 of 1997] to stop visitors from many countries coming to Australia and among them is Poland.[Israel is also on the list as well as the following countries-Bangladesh, Burma, Cambodia, Chile, China, Colombia, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Egypt, Fiji, Greece, Hungary, India, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, Macedonia, Mauritius, Nauru, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Romania, Samoa, Slovakia, Sri Lanka, Syria, Tonga, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Vietnam and Yugoslavia]."
More at
http://nowhiteaustralia.blogspot.com/
And
http://www.country-liberal-party.com/pages/Let-Them-Drown.html
And
http://www.country-liberal-party.com/pages/LetThemLand.htm
And
http://www.country-liberal-party.com/pages/Child-abuse.htm
And
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jan1999/immi-j20.shtml
And
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jan1999/imm2-j22.shtml
And
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jan1999/imm3-j26.shtml

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/06/30/PH2005063001577.jpg