View Full Version : Clubs in Canberra
Lee Lee
10-Oct-01, 06:19pm
I have been talking to several friends of recent about the lack of decent clubs in Canberra. My question is why cant Canberra capture that vibe or feeling in a club that Sydney or Melbourne can? You know how heaven used to have a dark sorta funky feeling, but everyone knew it was dirty. What happened to clubs in canberra that were dimly lit, full of couches and free of lasers. I think that the sydney super parties corrupt our clubs with there massive light shows that everyone aspires to here. What are your thoughts?
Lasers don't necessarily destroy the atmoshpere of a dark club. Laser applications can be even more effective in a darklit environment than bright clubs like Habana.
Fimble
Also as far creating the same atmosphere as Sydney clubs is concerned, I think the key factor is that not a single one of the major clubs in Canberra, not one, have been created with the Canberra rave scene in mind. Habana was born as a Latin nightclub. Melt and the various similar events are just easy money from a market that has no other home than Habana.
If someone actually had the capital to invest in and create a club with the rave scene in mind I'm certain we'd see a Heaven 2.0; Heaven but cleaner and fresher.
Fimble
bennybee
11-Oct-01, 08:57am
fimble, you are spot on the money. its all about designing the space with the music/vibe in mind.
Lee Lee
11-Oct-01, 02:20pm
Yeah but thats the thing. There are two types of clubs. There are your Homes and there are your revolvers. Personally I believe Canberra aspires too much towards the big glamourous clubs. I.e. Habana, Babylon, insomnia etc... Was Heaven just a one off??? Was heaven originally created with that in mind? I never went to heaven back 5 or 6 years ago when I believe it was more of a house/gay club. I would like to know if Heaven was originally designed to be a dirty little club or if it was glam when it first opened. Anyone know?
I don't think any club is actually designed to be dirty. Hehe. But even though I never ventured there in the old days I do believe it has always been a dark club.
Not only that, did superclubs even have the same image 6 years ago? Did they exist in the same capacity? I'm not sure, but I have my doubts.
Fimble
bennybee
11-Oct-01, 03:54pm
To my old and decripit memory heaven did start out as a house/gay club (i remember once turning up drunk with mates and being asked by the bouncer if i knew what sort of club it was) but it was never ever particularly glam.
it was pretty dingy from the get go. but it was nice.
my biggest problermo with clubs in canberra is the sound. most of the tunes i like are either at habana or anu. The sound at both is poor. Babylon and ICBM have far better sound systems but apart from Fang (and now the Mickey Finn thang, and Hybrid at ICBM many moons ago - now that was good) there aint nothin on at these clubs.
the problem with making a purpose built dance club in canberra is the cost (bigbucks) makes you want to go after the bigbucks (icbm crowds, etc) its a catch 22 that we just don't have the numbers to sustain a pretty decent well decked out club soley focusing on the less comercial tunes.
but we try, god bless all of you out there trying. i am grateful though i whinge.
do you think a club the size of revolver, or home for that matter, would be filled on a friday and saturday night (in canberra)? do you think opening a club of that nature would create a bigger market? or does the market already have to exist?
tune in next time for more rhetorical questions ...
If I had a respectable amount of income and I was to open a club next week, I would shoot for something bigger than any of the current clubs, so that it serves as a decent venue for larger events, but without going overboard on space. I'm thinking twice the floorspace of Habana. Maybe a bit bigger if I wanted a smaller second room. I'd definitely be going for a very dark atmosphere like Heaven, but clean.
Then on weekends one night will be trance and progressive and the other will be hardbeats ranging from hard house, to hard trance and hard NRG to hard core. The other night will be progressive styles to breaks to techno.
However, it would be a complete waste of time if you didn't pinch Archie, CF and the Twisted crew because they bring the money and the general populace will follow them to which ever club they support. I firmly believe that the canberra scene would LOVE to see a Heaven 2.0 as long as it was clean. Clubbers aren't afraid of the dark, just seediness.
But anyway, in the end it would be relatively easy to make a decent rave club in Canberra if you have enough cash to (a) woo Archie, Freshy and Twisted's (and all the other promoters for that matter) services from Habana and (b) you are able to find a facility big enough to hold at least 1500 people thereby not only creating a weekly club venue but also a venue which can support most of the bigger gigs. If you have a club that can do it all, then it's much much nicer. I don't think it would be hard to convince the DJs to move to a club designed specifically to their tastes.
At least, that's my general theory.
Fimble.
I guess each to his/her own, but I'm not with you guys on the bigger is better thing.
The dopest nights out clubbing for me are always at dingy little venues like 77 or pheonix in sydney which ARE house to me. that's where house was born in the late 70s/early 80s before it was coopted by the UK.
On the other hand I've got no idea of the sort of venues you guys have in Canberra...
calico
Lee Lee
12-Oct-01, 11:31am
Yeah thats what I was thinking too. Something small and comfortable. A place where you can chill out as well as dance comfortably. 200 capacity ideal. but in all seriousness Canberra will only pull crowds of lots of people for big names. Do we think that there are 200 people in Canberra that go out to listen to the tunes rather than to see a big name and get 'smashed'. I would say there are, but do they all listen to the same style...
But there's this little, niggling problem of making money. You see and having a club with capacity of only 200 people who go there to sit and listen to music and don't buy water all night because they're 'smashed' immediately gives you a nasty financial handicap. I'm no business graduate but I'm fairly sure that's a reasonable assessment.
On the other hand if you wanted a club with only 200 people AND be able to chill and dance comfortably it would almost have to be a breaks/techno club (but you'd love a breaks club wouldn't ya Lee Lee =) because if it had anything more mainstream it would attract too many punters and end up packed anyway.
Now when I say a club for 1500 people, you can still get away with quite a cosy feel. It's all about the layout. I'm not talking about one enormous room. I'm thinking of a larger dance area, with what could only be described of a rabbit warrent of chill space. I dunno, I haven't thought too much about it! But I certainly trying for a venue that can satisfy all in one. It WOULD be possible.
Still, I can see where you're coming from. In a perfect world where Canberra had more money to throw around a nice little dim club would be loverly.
Fimble
chris fresh
12-Oct-01, 12:29pm
>my biggest problermo with clubs in canberra is the sound. most of the tunes i like are either at habana or anu. The sound at both is poor.
bennybee,
just wondering if you heard the sound at Gatecrasher, Freestylers or Nick Warren @ ANU?? did you think it was poor?
just interested
cf
bennybee
12-Oct-01, 12:50pm
Chris,
Didn't got to Gratecrasher or Freestylers (though i wish i'd have been at freestylers by the sound of things).
The warren sound wasn't to bad but personally for me to really get intop rogressive i need it to be really crisp. There was also a lot of dead spots around the main floor. If you were front centre about 5 to 10 meters back it was pretty ace but elsewhere not quite so good.
cheers,
Benny
Let's not forget the role that drugs has in all of this.
Nightclub's are businesses.They make money from selling a product, that being alcoholic drinks. Sure, most now charge a door charge, but I think that stems from somewhere back in the history books, I'd say at the Disco clubs of the 70's, somone twigged that the music was the commodity, and the drinks were just something you did while you enjoyed the music. So they started charging for the privillege of getting in - and thus your door charge was born.
As drugs became more popular, some venues were finding more people were popping pills or taking speed or whatever, and not drinking alcohol. So the only form of revenue from the punters that the venue was making was from the door sales.
How many people do you know who go/went out to Heaven or Habana who don't buy drinks. Just a bottle of water which they refill in the toilets, to keep them hydrated while they enjoy the music and their chems? On an outsdie promoter's night, a la Twisted, or Dose, or Fang or whatever - the door money goes to the promoter usually, not to the venue. Sure, they get their venue hire fee. But that's it.
Every person who goes in there, wanting good music and a good environment in which to indulge in their chems and their music, without buying drinks from the bar - essentially they are freeloaders fromt eh point of view of the venue. They bring very little money to the venue.
And yet they'll still whinge about the poor sound, or the bad lighting or whatever.
Wouldn't things be different if the laws followed the public trend, that people don't just go out to get drunk and enjoy music anymore? Lots, maybe as much as a third of the nightclub going patrons of the world, go out to enjoy the music and to take some sort of illegal chemical. If you could buy drugs over the bar, then the venue could make money off those people as well as the drinkers, and instead of the money to going to the sketchy little drug dealer in a back alley, it would go into making the clubs bigger and better. (Or maybe into lining the pockets of club oowners - but we are talking perfect world scenario here where greed isn't an issue).
Consider this : re: Habana - you talk about wanting a "darker" club... Habana were told by the drug squad to add more lighting, brighten up the place, remove the dark corners where people can hide. I'm sure everyone would like Habana to be a little darker - but I don;t think the Management have made it that well lit by choice.
Damn freeloaders. :P
Fimble
Lee Lee
12-Oct-01, 02:05pm
Good point there Marky. I think that this is detracting somewhat from the initial statement though. I am trying to (doing a bad job at it) talk about the vibe of a club. Not as in how the people are feeling, but the feel of the place. Darkness affects this as does furniture and architecture. I agree with you about the bar issue though, but as you have seen me at habana I buy enough drinks to look after 4 or 5 people if it makes any difference... In no way am I complaining about these but commenting. I am stoked at the moment. In the last few months and in months to come canberra is going off with some great acts. I just miss the homely feel of clubs that you get elsewhere from Canberra. Have I made any sense??
bennybee
12-Oct-01, 02:44pm
marky - thats crazy about deem ploiza wanting to make habana lighter. crazeee. i agree promoters an club owners in diz town have it tuff - respect to dem but its still nice to dream of a better world....
would be sweet if we could get some breaks (prog., nu-skool, ambient etc) or drum n bass at a smallish club like hippo, corvo's (might suggest to ryan papa) or maybe east on west (is it even open?). There is something about tracks by hybrid, PMT, plumps, pilgrem etc, with a vodka and a comfy lounge (with space for a bit of a groove when I have the energy) that blends perfectly. If promoters were worried about making no beans off the bar cause people are ripped, then chuck a bit of a cover charge on. would help keep drunk walk by traffic out too.
fresh: thought sound at freestylers was pretty good (now if only it could transported to havana for state).
DJ Cass is comin in january, need serious sound system for him. he is the nuts
are club nights in canberra just held at the 3 or so "nightclubs"? or are other venues used?
Mr Mike
13-Oct-01, 06:04pm
The different revenue streams created by a club should cover their associated costs, ie the cover charge should cover the cost of the entertainment, use of club (including security and cleaning) and a reasonable profit margin, the bar should cover the cost of beverages sold, bar staff wages and again a profit margin etc. If there are any freeloaders out there then product cross subsidisation is taking place and is due to pricing errors by promoters and club management ), you can't blame the punters for listening to good music and not getting pissed (if they don't want to). We noticed Habana has jacked up the price of beer last night so I guess they understand the situation.
As far as sound and lighting go I think we should all accept that we will have to pay more to get better sound quality in venues that weren't built for that purpose ie ANU is designed to have a bunch of students sitting down stuffing their faces with cheap junk food not a bunch of people dancing and listening to techno. Hopefully the Royal Theatre proves to be a better venue in that regard. Heres to hoping it doesn't get trashed and there's no drug related dramas that might prevent the venue being used again in the future.
As far as creating a permanent 1500 sized club I don't think the market in Canberra is large enough yet, I could be wrong though. If it were to work the main room on the regular club night would have to be hard house/trance, love it or hate it, it's the most popular style of "undergrond" dance music at the moment, ie it would need to be someting like Voodoo@Sublime@Home. As an aside I think it's interesting that none of the djs in Canberra really play that style (I'm talking about Bexta, Pee Wee, Jumping Jack etc). Jimmy, Hypa & Happy generally play a lot tougher, while Ken and Archie are a bit more eclectic. I think the popularity of Bexta in Canberra is due largely to the fact that she plays exactly the brand of music most people want to hear, if a large club were to find djs that played that style it would go a long way to making it work.
Another factor which shouldn't be dismissed is that there are a lot of people who only go out once a month for financial or drug related reasons (either they only want to fry their brain that often or they have a partner who either doesn't know or approve of their drug use and that is all they can get away with). These people tend to go to larger events eg Gatecrasher, Passion, Stomp etc and don't attend club nights very often.
As far as drug dealing goes:
1. If the USA (we should all know that they dictate Australian drug policy) ever allows the legalisation of various narcotics (it makes far too much sense) I will run naked through Habana with a bottle of GHB jammed up my arse and two straws stuffed with cocaine rammed up my nostrils.
2. "If you could buy drugs over the bar", Marky, Marky, Marky cough**Lot33**cough, umm that aint the only club in the world that does it either...
Calico, the main venues for club nights are Habana and Babylon, the ANU refectory is used for larger events and needs to be fitted out with lights and sound. There are also a group of restaurant/lounge bars that host a range of smaller more laid back nights (Corvo's, Lot 33, Trinity, Minque, Bar Ariba, Sombrero, East on West, Montezuma's). Lack of large all ages venues is stifling the Canberra scene somewhat in my opinion. I think a lot of people discover the "scene" from the larger more heavily promoted parties and then slowly cast away their old Insomnia/Mooseheads/SouthPac alco persona and start listening to music made for dancing not just record sales to teenage girls.
And yes Fimble I have a business related degree :)
Hehehe. With regard to th 1500 people thing, I wasn't necessarily saying it would have to reach anywhere near that number regularly, mere that the club the the space to support it. So basically it's just a question of the kind of cost you'd be paying for lease of a large area like that. You'd have to find a real bargain for it to viable.
Fimble
Mr Mike
14-Oct-01, 02:57am
I can't see the rent being cheap in the city, which is realistically the only place a club of that size could be situated. Even if you initially got a cheap price due to a depressed rental market it would eventually adjust to a normal price. But rent alone is not the only consideration, the larger the club the more you have to spend on fitting it out (including sound and lighting).
Having a club less than full all the time:
1. Is a waste of capital, even if it is profitable (doubtful) the owner could get a better return by spending less on smaller premises.
2. In my opinion detracts from the atmosphere of the place. Say the club gets a turnout of 500 (a fairly good turnout to a club night as is) the place would seem fairly empty (depends on layout of course). If a club gets a reputation for being 'dead' all the time then that in itself becomes a reason for people to stay away, regardless of how good the place actually is.
If I had the money to throw around I'd do it so long as it made a profit however slender but I don't and I imagine most business people would not do it unless it was to make them some serious cash.
lee lee.
i get your idea about the feel or the vibe or whatever. it's pretty hard to pinpoint what it is that creates that feel. and it's different for everybody...
for me i love going out for dirty deep dark house music at phoenix or mad racket (marrickville bowling club) in sydney... i don't think anyone would say these are stylish venues! but for me they feel 'real', whereas i find nights out at places like home really plastic or superficial, and i just can't really get into them.
too much stainless steel is invading sydney!
i'm not sure what canberra clubs are like, but i'm moving down in a few weeks... so from the sounds of things (cross fingers) there are quite a few cool places.
calico
Well if there is one thing to be said calico it's that the Canberra scene is so centralised around Habana and a select few other clubs that it's the kinda of place you can just go to the club on your own and be sure to find almost everyone you know.
Fimble
that sounds pretty cool fimble
i'm looking forward to checking it out!
Pimpamon
17-Nov-01, 12:52am
Personally I think what gives a club that comfortable feel depends on how well you know it/how long its been there. clubs tend to gain character the longer they're around. I know what you mean by 'Home' being plastic, I found the same in general, untill I found that little breaks room hidden away overlooking the quay. I think Fimble has the right idea with the 1500 cap. you just need to disperse it, have maybe two stages and a chillroom. on a regular night the extra space can be closed off, so it doesn't feel too airy. And refrain from reflective flashy decor, you can have clean without the hospital effect. As for the freeloader chempeeps (I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about) Just stock and up the price of chewy and chuppachups. hehehe.
Ehhh I dunno... I guess no matter how it'd be, you wouldn't be able to please everyone ...and make a profit.
I think that if there is a club that is to be profitable and hold 1500 people it is going to need another source of income. If it were a two room club like Sublime where if they needed to they could open it out into one large room. So my theory would be to have a restaurant/cafe in one half during the day and the week and a bar in the other half. So on a friday and sat night you could have you doors open early in the bar half and at about 11 or 12 when punters move out of the restaurant/cafe you could open it out into one large room. Or you could have two small rooms pumping with various styles of music where you have acess to both rooms.
evilchris
21-Nov-01, 06:26pm
Soundz like a potential idea for say Dickson (plenty of cafe-type venues)...problem of course would be finding a venue that would get all those people in for DJ-mode...also this area's only a short drive from Civic, student residencies down Northbourne, etc. (or a short stumble for those who drink but don't drive (natch).
I wonder also about the idea of outdoor cafes starting to experiment with DJs (perhaps background funky house or chill-out as the evening goes on...I myself have often wondered as a DJ for 2XX about organising DJs on the street in the evening in front of the radio station in Bunda Street, as the summer moves closer and people are out in the evening (Fri./Sat.) Would anyone else be interested if we gave this a try?
evilchris (2XX FM's "Living Room")
Breakz Junkie
22-Nov-01, 02:04pm
HELL yes! I have thought about how cool it would be to just have ppl spinning in civic on summer evenings.
go'on my son!
cyZilla
22-Nov-01, 03:53pm
I have seen just this thing... couple of weeks ago, sunday afternoon at Valentino's Cafe there were some fairly chilled beats being served up along with the pizza. love to see more of it instead of canned muzak and CDs!
sounds great chris... summer vibes. freedom to play some less four on the floor sorta sounds. i'd love to be involved.
A taste of Canberra,
a little off the topic but pretty much right on it at the same time.
OK I came down for Stonefest or whatever it was called a month or so ago. In the morning we ended up in Havana/Habana ???
Now as far as some where to kick onto in the morning or to just have a quiet night in and go to in the morning this place is second to only one other place I've ever been and sopposedly it was an average turnout nothing spesh.
Nice friendly vibe for that time in the morning (8ish till about 11.30ish) a spaced out dance floor , full but spaced . EVERYONE could dance !! INDIVIDUALLY !!
AND they played breaks (I think Archie was one of the dj's although thats a guess) anyway so by about 10am they started playing hard house not my cup of tea but my gf loves it so it was ideal.
So in short dunno what your reg night life is outside of the comments above but your dayclub situation is pretty good, nothing compares in Sydney , well it does but its nastier, only plays hard house (sometimes nudging Hinrg) has a dull crowd , either extremely bent or extremely dodgey , i could go on.
Melbourne have Revolver which is amazing but that Habana is pretty cool, I never came across any decent eqivelants in the UK or in Europe, sure I've seen buzzing dayclubs (Sunnyside in London) but not as on the money as Habana.
THEND
trouble
08-Dec-01, 12:11pm
My thoughts on many issues…
>I guess each to his/her own, but I'm not with you guys on the bigger is better thing. - calico
^ We are talking about clubs, right? ;) … Me neither, but layout is a big issue. One reason Habana doesn’t work as a club is because of the way the space is designed. You’ve got the bar in the middle and then on one side you’ve got a relatively small dance floor and on the other a bigger, over-lit seating space, which by the way is NOT a comfortable seating area. Maybe it’s bad feng shui or something. Get rid of all the chairs and tables, move the bar to the opposite wall and further toward the front windows, and turn off a few damn lights. Now we’re getting warm.
>re: Habana - you talk about wanting a "darker" club... Habana were told by the drug squad to add more lighting, brighten up the place, remove the dark corners where people can hide. I'm sure everyone would like Habana to be a little darker - but I don;t think the Management have made it that well lit by choice. – Marky
^ Is that true? If so, what was the story with the positive room @ Heaven? You couldn’t see a foot in front of your face in there (ahh, just the way I like it). Not to mention the Liquid Lounge. I haven’t been there in a long time but I remember it being breakneck dingy. And don’t tell me the drug squad never investigated those two venues…
>Hybrid at ICBM many moons ago - now that was good – bennybee
^ How would you know BB? As I recall you tweaked out and had to leave after half an hour… hee hee!
>I wonder also about the idea of outdoor cafes starting to experiment with DJs (perhaps background funky house or chill-out as the evening goes on...I myself have often wondered as a DJ for 2XX about organising DJs on the street in the evening in front of the radio station in Bunda Street, as the summer moves closer and people are out in the evening (Fri./Sat.) Would anyone else be interested if we gave this a try? – evilchris
^ Hell yeah, I’d be into that! The only problem is, Gus’s, Essen etc are crowded enough as it is and would get even more so if you were spinning right across the street, and also you might want to check with Essen to see if they mind… don’t they often have someone doing an acoustic set on Friday nights?
>If someone actually had the capital to invest in and create a club with the rave scene in mind I'm certain we'd see a Heaven 2.0; Heaven but cleaner and fresher. – Fimble
^ I think I just came
Alistair
08-Dec-01, 06:57pm
And my thoughts on the many issues brought up...
Just because the candy kids dont buy drinks is no excuse for *any* club to go easy on their sound system. No matter if your building a britney club or a dedicated dance venue, it should be top consideration to install a decent sound system that is set up efficiently and is made of matching, quality componants. Failure to do so will have much more severe financial loss in the future than the initial outlay (ie repairs, complaints from punters, unaware djs trying to push bass too hard on systems where the eqs are set wrong and blowing the things etc). And it also shows you dont care about your customers. There is no arguement to this that is really anything but a whinge...
But to get a good vibe going in a club is a different thing. It takes the nights promoters to put in the work for the type of vibe they want there. This involves wisely choosing the djs, the music policy for the evening, and letting the people that would be interested in coming know that the event is on, and that it would be in their best interests to come. The some of the best atmospheres ive experienced in canberra have been at these events : Gatecrasher, Passion (one), Fang, Fuse and Dark. All markedly different events, the first two rocked because they managed to acheive great music, lasers, layout and a very up for it crowd. The club nights Fang, Fuse and Dark have worked because they are club nights that have offered more than just your usual dj dj dj anthem (coz the kids are bored) anthem (coz it mixes well with this other anthem) anthem nights that are the blight of almost every other regular club ive ever been to.
A lot goes into making a night have a great vibe, and generally its not just "we have a world superstar dj" its "we are putting on a party that we think you would like to go to". And a good sound system really helps too :)
FunkMuffin
12-Dec-01, 11:04am
Where is the vibe people??
It seems that people don't smile these days when they go out....
A smile makes me feel happy.
When I feel happy I like to dance.
When I like to dance I create a vibe
When vibe is created it is infectious
It starts with you
Smile
Create the vibe
And go off!!
And then your clubs, lasers, djs etc. will be a million times better cause you are ENJOYING it....not bitchin 'bout it.
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