View Full Version : Top 5 Mixers for Ableton and why.
pfalzon
25-Aug-06, 03:57pm
Theres no doubt that Ableton is now a popluar and fantastic tool for DJ's today and beyond.
Having the Software and a PC is a start but what should you be looking for in a mixer when getting serious with Ableton? Hoping some of our trusted online gurus can share some opinions.
What would you say are the top 5 mixers for Ableton and why?
adamhatfield
25-Aug-06, 04:34pm
Xone 3d <-- IMO the best
Xone92
DJM800
Ecler Nuo 4
not sure of any else
pfalzon
25-Aug-06, 04:37pm
apparently the DJM800 is a real contender. Lots of reviews saying they have sorted out the sound quality issues the 600 had. Plus the EQ's have been improved.
the 800 PWNS the 92 for midi control.
In this order IMO
Xone 3D - But its not really a mixer now is it... It has one as part of it, so i guess it can stay. :D
DJM 800 - So much can be done with this mixer its not funny
Nuo 4 - Again as the 800, but not as many knobs/ buttons send midi data.
Xone 92 - A galant effort and precursor to all of the above, even less than the Nuo 4 as far as usability
i think there are only three at this stage that a worthy,
DJM 800
Xone 3D
Nuo 4
in that order
Did you know: The DJM 800 gain knob can be used as a fourth EQ in Ableton
I don't use Ableton yet maybe when 6 comes out, but for the same price as a Xone 3d you can get a remote SL, sound card and DJm 800
apparently the DJM800 is a real contender. Lots of reviews saying they have sorted out the sound quality issues the 600 had. Plus the EQ's have been improved.
it still fails in the "i am a serious installation mixer worthy of being put infront of a quality FOH system." department
talk to turntable tech.
considering the cost of the nuo 4 in australia, in my opinion there's no serious competition.
Value for money, hands down every day of the week.
Though as far as the Midi implementation is concerned, the 800 shits all over it.
Only one person on this forum has said its shit, and still clubs around the world are installing them.
The outputs on the 800 are light years ahead of the crap that was in the 800.
If pioneer nabbed an engineer from rane or A&H and got them to design the next pioneer mixer's analogue output stage and kept its user friendly layout then i would say ladies and gents we have a new winner.
My question is has anyone other than TT heard/ played on one of these as i know i have...
soo much better than the 600 its not funny, granted not the same quality as my A&H or my mates Nuo, but its a massive improvement on their previous attempts.
cinditude
25-Aug-06, 06:14pm
I had a squiz @ the Ecler Nuo 4 over at spank 2day and it’s a viable cheaper alternative to Zone3D which will cost you a spleen. $1,395.00
http://www.spankrecords.com.au/stock/djgear/djGearDetail.asp?id=24828
http://www.spankrecords.com.au/images/ACCES/MIXER/Ecler/NUO4.jpg
Commando Sting
25-Aug-06, 06:57pm
don't bother with any of them
better off getting some sort of small portable midi controller that you can take with you
that way you don't have to muck around with much, and you can generally do much more with customisation
and lets face it
the chances of you finding a djm 800, nuo4 or a xone3d in a club are very minimal
on a side note, what exactly do you want to map the midi on a midi enabled mixer to do?
my vote is for a x session (uc 13 i think? or something that sounds similar)
or a trigger finger
foresight
25-Aug-06, 07:04pm
in non-dj application, i've used Ableton Live as a sound design tool for performance arts. Theatre to be exact. a good digital mixer with flying faders & 360deg knobs is a godsend in this case.
i've used a Behringer DDX3216 and its fantastic. affordable and lots of faders, buttons and knobs to assign to just about anything in Live (or any other MIDI application for that matter). Plus easily programmable presets. and its great fun watching the faders move all by itself. hahaha
in standard DJ application, i think i'm most likely to upgrade to a DJM800 when i got the dosh for it. i've done some research abt the Nuo4, it looks like a good MIDI enabled mixer, tho it has only 2 channel strips that are MIDI assignable + the centre MIDI strip, and it seems like its editor software is not compatible with Macs. its likely that it'd still send MIDI CC messages without any drivers tho...
A&H Xone 92 and 3D are awesome, but much too expensive if ur just using it at home.
800's are popping up every where. Hell theres even one in a venue in Newcastle about to be joined by another.
Though i also agree that a portable midi controller is easier and customisable.
You cant compare the 3D and any other mixer/ Midicon that exists in the current market place.
Its so different from anything else that even comes remotely close.
Value for money - Nuo 4 everyday of the week
If you can scratch up the cash - 800 PWNS every other midi controllable mixer in the market place, In terms of its midi implementation.
Im thinking that A&H may release a stripped down version of the 3D with out the sound card which will put it firmly at the top of the tree then.
Or the next Xone to be released, with a similar footprint/ Layout to the 92 will have as good if not better midi implementation than the 800, again thrusting it to the top of the tree.
Dj DeKay
25-Aug-06, 08:12pm
hmm yeah - AH will step up soon, alot of new mixers coming out.
Its not usually their style, though with the amount of rapid progress in this area in the last 6mths, you would have to think that something is on the boil, though if the 3D isnt selling as good as they think it should be then i wouldnt be surprised if a stripped back version appears, i dont think it would be much cheaper though....hmmm/ Scratches chin and goes back to search for porn...
they shld make a version of tje 3d without the mixer, just the controller and soundcard. Cos for people just using ableton, it wld be aesome, and a lo of ppl wld already have good mixers
Why bother, Mixers are their bread and butter, if anything, the shit they arent good at will get dropped.
yeah ur right, but imagine, wld sell sooo well. i wld love a xone 3d but cannot afford, ever. so i use a uc 33 and a motu soundcard
foresight
25-Aug-06, 10:49pm
Why bother, Mixers are their bread and butter, if anything, the shit they arent good at will get dropped.
they might just start giving away the back stock to (the good) employees at the annual dinner or something! LOL
"honey, i won a Xone 3D at the company dinner! bob got a toaster tho..."
hmm wld love a nuo 4 but the midi implementation looks limitied. is it?
big eddie
25-Aug-06, 11:26pm
Everyone who has actually touched a xone:3d raise their hands?
okay as you were
Its pretty good, and it will sound better than the 800, though the 800 shits on any dj mixer for midi implementation
Spectrum
26-Aug-06, 12:37am
Theres no doubt that Ableton is now a popluar and fantastic tool for DJ's today and beyond.
Having the Software and a PC is a start but what should you be looking for in a mixer when getting serious with Ableton? Hoping some of our trusted online gurus can share some opinions.
What would you say are the top 5 mixers for Ableton and why?
I'm confused...
Why do you need a mixer for Ableton?
Soundcard --> Hi/Fi or PA System
Sorted. :thumb:
EDIT: I forgot that Ableton is *only* a tool for DJs to add to their existing turntable set-ups. ;)
I'd like to see a nuo 6, 4 channels and full midi control, plus an effects unit that is totally configurable by software
Commando Sting
26-Aug-06, 10:45am
Everyone who has actually touched a xone:3d raise their hands?
okay as you were
had a solid 3 hour play on one
Everyone who has actually touched a xone:3d raise their hands?
okay as you were
ur point being? i would love to have one nd have heard nuttin but praise. check out http://www.djmag.com/index_tech.php for some cool videos and tutorials on it.
DJM 800 looks nice, im using for first time tonight wldbe cool, and much cheaper too
inditisipity
27-Aug-06, 09:37am
don't bother with any of them
better off getting some sort of small portable midi controller that you can take with you
My thoughts exactly!
i ahd a go on a DJM800 last night, its awesome, i want one. only thing is, that every knob and slider is MIDI mapabel, but that means each contorllers serves a dual purpos,ewhich i can see getting messy
SAAD
bullshit, you just need to get smarter about the way you would do things
bullshit, you just need to get smarter about the way you would do things
ok, someone is having a bit of a cry.
it would require careful planning, and execution, but once u got a good set up, shld be sweet. i guess a multi channel soundcard, with each track in live to differnt output, hooked ot each channel in mixer, combined with midi, could work
Sorry dude, i was a wee bit drunk last night when i posted that.... :lol:
Though at the end of the day, noone who is going to use a setup like that is going to be able to walk into a club and just plug in with out a shit load of prep before hand. Great for home use, but in most instances, a decent sound interface and personalised midi controller will be all you will need. and then some.
funkanova
28-Aug-06, 09:29am
I've got a nuo 4 and it's great, but i can see non midi noobs needing a few more buttons
yeah i agree with u there. I've just ordered an m audio uc 33, i think that should be enough, has plent of knobs and sliders, coupled with keybaord keys, should be sweet
saad
Donnie Darko
28-Aug-06, 04:33pm
http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM05/Content/Behringer/PR/BCD2000-sm.jpg
isnt a BCD2000 ableton compatible?
$250 + portable ftw!
yeah its compatible with eveyrhting, but apprently its a pain to set up, and the sound wuality aint that good, but wld be laugh.
Commando Sting
28-Aug-06, 10:48pm
it's behringer.. :|
Its a great little piece of kit, especially after you update the firmware and all the other latest updates for it.
Supports Direct X plugs on the unit, for some cool effects wizardry.
As far as an ableton controller, it should be like just about every other out there and ableton, which should mean its a piece of piss to set up.
Though as a primary control surface for ableton, nope, there are heaps better alternatives.
Donnie Darko
29-Aug-06, 09:32am
ok cool just curious :lol:
http://asjewelers.com/FRstuff/11/schultz.jpg
i know nothink, NOTHIINK!
Heist9000
29-Aug-06, 05:15pm
Though as a primary control surface for ableton, nope, there are heaps better alternatives.
Such as?
I'm after a fully assignable midi controller that is set up like a dj mixer. The UC33 looks pretty good, but i'm tempted by the low price of the behringer BCD2000 (im confused about how sound quality would be an issue unless it can be used in aplications other than purely as a midi device?)
UC33 is great as are the faderfox things if you can grab em.
For a DJ style midi controller then yeah i would grab the behringer thing, for the money.
Though the Uc33 allows a lot more customisation on your behalf i would think.
You dont use a cross fader do you.....??
The behringer thing is an actual mixer as well, hence the sound quality comments. though i havent heard a bad thing said about it yet.
Donnie Darko
30-Aug-06, 05:26pm
^ that DRi322 or whatever his name is said some really encouraging things about the bcd somehwere
would be good if he could post an opinion here too
x-session
faderfox lv-1 and lx-1
and a motu ultralight
my set-up and works a treat!
I've been thinking about buying a new mixer and had look at the Nuo 4 - I would prefer to just get a midi controller though... Portability is good!
Dik_Bob
30-Aug-06, 08:10pm
DJM800 without out a doubt. This assumes you dont want to waste all your money on a 3D
why spend a couple of grand when you can get a midi controller for a few hundred?
When its out of date, chuck it away and get the latest midi controller or whatever.
Mixers built for Ableton make no sense as they will be out of date before the next version of the software comes out.
why spend a couple of grand when you can get a midi controller for a few hundred?
When its out of date, chuck it away and get the latest midi controller or whatever.
Mixers built for Ableton make no sense as they will be out of date before the next version of the software comes out.
whoa that makes a lot of sense dude, thanks!
but then again ,the layout and feel of Ableton hasnt really changed since version 1 so yeah? And the whole integrated all in one ios cool, so u can just take ur laptop and ur Xone 3d, rather than a separate soundcard and mixer, but hmm.
The DJM 800 is a mixer as well though and the basic principle for a mixer layout hasn't changed much in the last decade or so + plus it's all midi assignable, for DJing with midi applications it's hard to go past..... for now at least
Exactly, and other than TTech, who here has had enough experience with one let alone heard one to make a qualified assessment as to whether the mixer is shit????
Iv'e had about 5hrs on one in a club setting and the difference between the 800 and 600 is chalk and cheese.
don't bother with any of them
better off getting some sort of small portable midi controller that you can take with you
that way you don't have to muck around with much, and you can generally do much more with customisation
at the moment this is what i would go with too. unless you can be bothered to carry your xone/800/nuo to every gig with you (which also assumes that the setup there has room for the mixer/enables you to change the mixer) or you are famous enough to be able to demand one in your rider, then it seems to make a lot more sense to get a small midi controller and take with.
were in newy is the 800 neo, i could only imagine king club level would have it, downstairs has got a 600, same with mbar
The DJM 800 is a mixer as well though and the basic principle for a mixer layout hasn't changed much in the last decade or so + plus it's all midi assignable, for DJing with midi applications it's hard to go past..... for now at least
with the speed of midi mixers coming to a market dominance, i see no reason to buy something that is claiming to be everything to everyone.
waid 24 months and they'll be something sigficantly better and priced accordingly.
Ecler supposedly has something in the pipeline for next year.
Maybe Manufacturers should take a bit of a backwards step and just release one product for each seperate need. I'd love to have an ecler mixer that was just a 4 channel mixer, nothing else, based around the nuo series, a Nuo 4 without midi or effects. Then you could add parts youself like an effects processor, midi control etc, etc. It would probably cost a bit more but it would suit exactly your needs
a good audio company should team up with a mixer company and release a hybrid. M-audio and vestax/rane/ecler/ etc... or tascam and one of those...
tascam threw the idea around on their forums for the X-9, but i have a feeling it was binned :(
M-audio Torq inside of Ecler four channel, midi control for Torq and Ableton combined on mixer,
wait 24 months and they'll be something sigficantly better and priced accordingly.
Keep dreaming, something better may just come along, but i seriously doubt in a market like this it will be any cheaper, or realistically priced. Especially if it comes from a known brand.
finally had a good chance to get stuck into this mixer today.
it's still a pioneer, but it's a marked improvement from the 600. the EFX are better, the the sound colour knobs are a lot of fun, but there still needs to be some decent amount of work to make the smoother, the EQ's are better, but would serve better being full kill... faders have a great stiffness in them which i miss with the vestax mixers.
spent the first 15min of the set getting the mixer back to 0 since the guys before me had it way off the charts for the channels, but when it's sitting on zero it was doing quite well, can't comment on the sound quality as the monitor i think was alto...
for $2500 i wouldn't buy it, nor would i for 2k, maybe 1700... but if it was a $1500 mixer I'd snap one up.
dirty as hell
11-Nov-06, 08:34pm
Yamaha MG 32/14 FX
you need a big soundcard though
cinditude
11-Nov-06, 08:43pm
Yamaha MG 32/14 FX
you need a big soundcard though
wow, why so affordable, whats wrong with it?
under $2000
dirty as hell
12-Nov-06, 01:02am
um nothing to my knowledge. Its made in some asian back water but it sounds heaps better than a behringer is cheaper than a 16 channel mackie and has all the same features (in my opinion it sounds better too). It sounds a little bright though that may just be the soundcards, but seriously find that many channels for that price any where else that isn't a Behringer?
cinditude
12-Nov-06, 01:09am
thats awsome, xmas list. Think I will get a 24, dont really need 32...
dirty as hell
12-Nov-06, 11:23am
i would have the 24 if it wasn't for the tendency for running out to about 18 tracks of audio. Its useful to have access to mono 24 channels when your production technique includes giving every drum sound a channel and run synths in stereo. Also the access to 6 sends and 2 returns is kinda useful and you can route them back into groups as well. im not trying to sell the thing its just if you want something big and you don't want a behringer and don't want to spend a fortune on a allen and heath or soundcraft desk then its perfect, only issue is that demand for them is pretty high, i think it took 4 months to get hold of one.
pfalzon
13-Nov-06, 01:58pm
finally had a good chance to get stuck into this mixer today.
it's still a pioneer, but it's a marked improvement from the 600. the EFX are better, the the sound colour knobs are a lot of fun, but there still needs to be some decent amount of work to make the smoother, the EQ's are better, but would serve better being full kill... faders have a great stiffness in them which i miss with the vestax mixers.
spent the first 15min of the set getting the mixer back to 0 since the guys before me had it way off the charts for the channels, but when it's sitting on zero it was doing quite well, can't comment on the sound quality as the monitor i think was alto...
for $2500 i wouldn't buy it, nor would i for 2k, maybe 1700... but if it was a $1500 mixer I'd snap one up.
Thats the one thing that really shits me with the 600/800. No full kill on the EQ's. That sucks bigtime IMO.
hpstekno
13-Nov-06, 07:36pm
Everyone who has actually touched a xone:3d raise their hands?
okay as you were
/me raises hand
From here
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33352&sid=1f901a269fe2b78d0e3afa32f72d4da5
to here
http://musik.messefrankfurt.com/global/en/home.html
Commando Sting
07-Jan-07, 09:55pm
what are we looking at on the messe site?
Bassbunker
07-Jan-07, 10:05pm
I'm glad I wan't the only one.
nothing yet sorry about that............
wait till the Musik Messe this year (jonny thrice Ecler)
with the speed of midi mixers coming to a market dominance, i see no reason to buy something that is claiming to be everything to everyone.
waid 24 months and they'll be something sigficantly better and priced accordingly.
any updates??? I'm searching for the right mixer/controller that will allow me to control Eq Three's, Eq eights in my Ableton A/B Decks. Traditional DJ Mixer control- i.e control over 2-4 EQ's/Channels at the same time, without having to flick channels. Is the dJm800 still the go?
To me it seems the best setup would be using an APC40 to trigger clips, control plug-ins and devices etc and channel faders etc., but you still need a traditional mixer , e..g DJM800 to have simultanous control of EQ's.
vestax VCM600 midi controller and a good soundcard.
vestax VCM600 midi controller and a good soundcard.
this.
A launchpad with a VCM600 would be awesome, though I guess an APC40 could fit somewhere in there too.
vestax VCM600 midi controller and a good soundcard.
sure the vestax 600 is sweet as, but i should have mentioned i don't really want to spend $1500 to have Dj mixer control over Ableton's EQ's when DJ'ing. might just stick with mapping my current midi controller or get the M Audio controller for $150. There does seem to be a bit of a hole in the market between high end mixers and the shitty cheap 'DJ' controllers.
On a related question- if you normally use the vestax or djm 800 as a midi controller for ableton live- would you need to take it to gigs, or could you set up mapping to the venue's mixer, or would the mapping load when you load a live set?
timothyallan
27-Jan-10, 08:29pm
I just bought a used one for just over $500. Should have it in a day :)
Map it to EQ8 instead of 3 and nobody's gonna know.
http://www.audio-depot.com/images/Vestax%20VCM-600.jpg
Johbremat
27-Jan-10, 10:15pm
@wits: your mappings would load.
MIDI/HID controllers and audio interfaces should never act as a 'dongle', so plugging in your unit at a gig should be no different to plugging it in at a club.
If you're using a DJM800 at home and have everything mapped, plugging in a club's DJM800 will work in exactly the same fashion.
If you're using a VCM-600 at home and have everything mapped, plugging in a club's VCM-600 WON'T...only because you'll never find one installed in a club *grins*
Given the chance, I'd happily by the VCM-600 again. Built like a tank, and would cart it around to gigs seeing it's part of my work flow and maps soooo nicely to Live.
I just bought a used one for just over $500. Should have it in a day :)
Map it to EQ8 instead of 3 and nobody's gonna know.
http://www.audio-depot.com/images/Vestax%20VCM-600.jpg
out of interest where'd you buy it from?
timothyallan
28-Jan-10, 02:44pm
out of interest where'd you buy it from?
Eeeeeeeebay
Pro Tool
28-Jan-10, 02:47pm
Look forward to seeing what you come up with using the 600 Tim. We can do a swapsies with the 4D and be each other's tribute band. :lol:
I just bought a used one for just over $500. Should have it in a day :)
Map it to EQ8 instead of 3 and nobody's gonna know.
itm really needs a middle finger emoticon :emo:
Heist9000
30-Jan-10, 07:10pm
I just bought a used one for just over $500. Should have it in a day :)
Map it to EQ8 instead of 3 and nobody's gonna know.
http://www.audio-depot.com/images/Vestax%20VCM-600.jpg
Has it got actual audio channels or is it pure controller?
pure controller.
soo nice
timothyallan
31-Jan-10, 03:30pm
Look forward to seeing what you come up with using the 600 Tim. We can do a swapsies with the 4D and be each other's tribute band. :lol:
I really just need one button mapped to play. The pre-recorded set takes care of itself and I time my fist pumping accordingly.
the only way to do it ^^ :P
Trip101
25-May-10, 10:34am
A Korg Zero 8 though it's got its flaws.. but now thats they are so cheap.. those mixers can do anything on ableton in seperate channels . I have one. but i paid 2000 for it. they are less than 1000 now
camduff
25-May-10, 12:29pm
Newbie question here:
I've got Ableton with an APC40 as the MIDI controller, but is there any way to hook up a DJM-800 to the setup so I can use the EQ's on the DJM-800, rather than the EQ's on Ableton when mixing??
Born-Slippy-
25-May-10, 06:38pm
^ get a USB soundcard (audio 4 DJ, or audio kontrol 1 by Native instruments are ok choice) and send all audio from abelton out to that, and it has 4 outputs which u can go RCA intro each channel of your 800, youll need 4 channels in abelton sending audio to 1,2 3,4 5,6 7,8 and name them deck 1,2,3,4 or something. eastiest to watch a video explaining it theres youtube vids on it just search ableton external mixer.
its a cool setup i started out with launchpad into ableton out to djx750 and had heaps of fun with it :D
Pro Tool
25-May-10, 07:07pm
4 out soundcards = 4 channels mono / 2 channels stereo, no?
smidgin
31-May-10, 04:30pm
pro tool is right
Born-Slippy-
31-May-10, 06:56pm
ah ok i didnt know that, thats stupid, i just had a audio 2 dj and both those outs were stereo.
so whats the point of having 4 outs if 2 are mono? isnt the point to go out to a 4 channel mixer?
That vestax gear looks nuts!
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