People selling their vinyl to go digital [Archive]

Marky

04-Apr-07, 11:28am

I'm looking through "buying and selling" forums (here and elswwhere), and the number of posts I see for people selling their old vinyl collections so they can buy CDJs or laptops/midi controllers/serato etc really bugs me.

Not that I'm anti-digital. I totally accept the role digital has to play in the modern age. And I totally accept a lot of people are just selling the old records they are never likely to DJ with again, which is fine.

But I get the feeling (and have seen people openly stating they are doing this) that there's a lot of people converting their old vinyl to mp3/wav/cd, then selling the vinyl and yet continuing to DJ with the old tunes in the digital copy.

People's attitudes to music these days makes me sick. It's not farken free. If you sell the vinyl, delete the farken digital copy too, you greedy leaches. :ahoy: X(

DRi_2004XL

04-Apr-07, 12:05pm

People's attitudes to music these days makes me sick. It's not farken free. If you sell the vinyl, delete the farken digital copy too, you greedy leaches. :ahoy: X(

With that attitude you must also feel that DJ's who record mixes shouldnt upload them and make them available on the internet because after all, its giving away music...?

But no, here we go with another vinyl/digital rant thread. Awesome... ALT + F4

Tha Gooch

04-Apr-07, 12:21pm

If you sell the vinyl, delete the farken digital copy too, you greedy leaches. :ahoy: X(

bwhahahaha

http://dack.com/images/weblog/go-fuck-yourself.jpg :thumb:

dj oldfart

04-Apr-07, 12:23pm

Can you really blame most "dj's" for stealing music? Look at how many ppl actually do it as aprofession and make a living out of it, not many ppl eh? With what most dj's get paid and the abundance of wannabes who do it for free it is no wonder most steal music. Take my case in example when I was in my heyday most professional dj'sI knew were getting between 100-200 per hour depending on size of venue etc. Now most of us are fighting over the same gigs bein paid 50 per hour, but more often than not ur expected to take a piece of the door which means u dont get paid in a lot of instances. I know 50 per hour seems a lot but this aint a 40 hr workin week here, at best most guys play 8hrs over the course of a weekend, 8*50=400. You might say "so what" you can work a 2nd job during the week. Well take this into consideration, I spend approx 30 hrs a week goin through new tunes to find the "good" tracks you will hear in the club, this work is unpaid obviously. So bascially I am doin 40 hrs per week for $400, doesnt seem so rosy now does it. Of this $400......$100 goes to the tax man , $50 for petrol and parking to from gigs and approx $100 a week on tunes. So overall for my 40 hrs of work I get a net profit of $150.

So before you have a go @ ppl stealing music look at how the industry treats the average dj and think it you were in the same situation what would you do? If I wasnt on promo I would have 2 steal it to keep up!

p.s if u dont think spending 30 hrs a week listening to promos consitutes work then sit in a room and listen to fukin shit music for 30 hrs a week and see how u like it :P

DJ D one

04-Apr-07, 12:24pm

That is a tought one isn't it?
What happen when you want to get out of the digital djing stuff, you sell your laptop with all your beatport tunes??? (What about your backup DVD at home lol) As for me I rather not think about it, I don't think it is a battle that can be win...but suely hey should not brag about it either...
Remember seeing that guy selling his entire CD collection (100s of them), and advertising with a nice little IPOD playlist, obviously he had put every tunes on his IPOD. Anyway have to go clean the backyard.

DJD1

DJ D one

04-Apr-07, 12:33pm

Good points DJ oldfart

If you are too honest you get screwed
If you are too dishonest you get screwed as well.
So you have to be in between, so you get screwed and you get to screw as well.

DJD1

Tristan W

04-Apr-07, 02:18pm

It is not like people selling their records are making a killing of it. C'mon most of the records on here aren't goin for more than $5. Those second hand record sales are the thing that is going to keep vinyl buzzin along. It is giving some beginner a collection of vinyl or keepin someones vinyl collection alive.

I'd be lovin it if some budding young wannbe dj goin through his honeymoon period was listening to one of my old records that I was gurnin to in my honeymoon period:rock:

Marky

04-Apr-07, 02:36pm

Wow - interesting responses.

Seems people are so quick around here to point out the evils of piracy when it comes to music software, but the illegal use of music seems to be disregarded somewhat.

I'm certainly not trying to start a debate about digital vs vinyl - more about the legality of playing music you don't actually own a legal copy of. All stems from my own increaing sense of ethics, I guess.

Dri - I've always had some questions as to the legality of giving away mixes without clearing the songs in it. A lot of websites I checked out (admittedly a while ago now) wouldn't host DJ mix mp3s, citing copyright laws as the reason. And for a lot of people getting a copy of their DJ mates' mix demo CD would mean they don't need to go out and spend money on music themselves, so essentially it's free music.

DJ Fusion

04-Apr-07, 03:28pm

Its about time second hand vinyl started selling for what its worth. $5 a pop is a good price, I'm glad the days of people charging $20 for second-hand records that cost $15 new are soon gonna be over, but I'm in a transition period. I still flip to phono and use my regular vinyl on my serato setup, but less and less frequently, however Id rather keep all my old 12"s than sell em off.

Xelpmok

04-Apr-07, 05:35pm

I'm certainly not trying to start a debate about digital vs vinyl - more about the legality of playing music you don't actually own a legal copy of.

You wanna get legal?

When dj's start paying artists some royalties from all the times they play their (copyright) music at their gigs where they entertain a lot of people and get paid to do it (on a regular basis) then they can start an argument like this. But till that day, they should just enjoy what they do but shut the fuck up. Either lead by example (completely, in all its forms) or shut the fuck up.

Even filling out some performance forms (online) and handing them in to Apra EVERY time they do a gig would be nice, but no. Not even occasionally. Its just too hard after ramming 6 pills up ones ass.

:rainman:

That said, I don't really care what people do, but its good to look at the whole picture instead of focusing in on one of the issues. Especially if you're a pot, a black pot and you're calling someone else a black kettle. That could be racists too if that other person really is black and you're white. But if its the other way around and the black persons calling the white guy ghostface then its ok. Cus thats not racist.

Worlds a crazy place of double standards, deal with it.

:thumb:

djmarc

04-Apr-07, 05:40pm

Interesting points... but i agree with dj oldfart.. it may not be ethically right, but you gotta get by somehow

Xelpmok

04-Apr-07, 06:01pm

I know 50 per hour seems a lot but this aint a 40 hr workin week here, at best most guys play 8hrs over the course of a weekend, 8*50=400. You might say "so what" you can work a 2nd job during the week. Well take this into consideration, I spend approx 30 hrs a week goin through new tunes to find the "good" tracks you will hear in the club, this work is unpaid obviously. So bascially I am doin 40 hrs per week for $400, doesnt seem so rosy now does it. Of this $400......$100 goes to the tax man , $50 for petrol and parking to from gigs and approx $100 a week on tunes. So overall for my 40 hrs of work I get a net profit of $150.

Interesting calculations. But it aint exactly hard work is it? Thats why you don't make as much $$$ as someone who does real work, 40 hours a week.

Don't get me wrong man, it would be nice if you could piss fart around and get paid well to mix it up plus snort various powders. Till then, its a hobby and always will be. Just like writing music .

You think dj's have it bad listening to tracks and buying records each week then mixing it up on 2 or 3 decks n a mixer. Try building a studio, learning your gear and software inside out, and then learning how to use that gear, and then spending all the time using it just to do one track and lets not forget actually learning music itself. Wait, whos gonna pay for mastering services etc... Then know that artists don't get paid shit for the time and money they have put in... till they hit the big time.

Like I said, its better to look at the whole picture, it puts things into perspective.

crazy_tripper

04-Apr-07, 06:09pm

You wanna get legal?

When dj's start paying artists some royalties from all the times they play their (copyright) music at their gigs where they entertain a lot of people and get paid to do it (on a regular basis) then they can start an argument like this. But till that day, they should just enjoy what they do but shut the fuck up. Either lead by example (completely, in all its forms) or shut the fuck up.

Even filling out some performance forms (online) and handing them in to Apra EVERY time they do a gig would be nice, but no. Not even occasionally. Its just too hard after ramming 6 pills up ones ass.

:rainman:

That said, I don't really care what people do, but its good to look at the whole picture instead of focusing in on one of the issues. Especially if you're a pot, a black pot and you're calling someone else a black kettle. That could be racists too if that other person really is black and you're white. But if its the other way around and the black persons calling the white guy ghostface then its ok. Cus thats not racist.

Worlds a crazy place of double standards, deal with it.

:thumb:
i thought it was the club's responsibility to take care of APRA stuff?

gd_81

04-Apr-07, 06:09pm

once technics revamp the 1200 into their version of the numark x2 then vinyl can finally die

and i wont mind (even though i love vinyl)

Xelpmok

04-Apr-07, 06:13pm

i thought it was the club's responsibility to take care of APRA stuff?

clubs pay the fees. dj's fill out the performance forms. takes 2 to tango. the clubs do their part. the dj's mostly don't.

so there u go...

Tha Gooch

04-Apr-07, 06:52pm

xelpmok i totally agree with you and thats from a DJ turned try hard producer point of view ;)

i have dj'd reguarly for a long time, and i can honestly say no-one has ever waved one of these sheets in my face ...

once on NYE at Seven nightclub (NYE just gone btw) i was told to fill out a playlist sheet, but was told it was for the DJ after me so he didnt play the same tracks as me - again something I have never been asked..but i did it! the DJ upstairs who i took over from hadnt tho ! muthaf*cka! and i could tell too when i dropped a track he had played as the crowd were like wtf?
anyway
I'd be well surprised if any dj's here besides the ones that ship interstate to play have seen something like this?

saying that how good would it be to have accurate bloody calculations of whats hot instead if just whats hot at one love and the big stuff that actually probably does fill these things out - thats where the real injustice lies! because the commercialised clubs are the biggest and they are generally onto it as far as selling themselves they would be filling these out and thats why the australian dance top 10 looks nothing like what you'd hear in a good club

DJ D one

04-Apr-07, 07:59pm

This is going no where, unless you are Madonna, Shakira or wtf Justin or Robbie, who gets your name out there are DJs........so if you are not the people above....only DJs decide wjho is good and who is bad.......if I can say, they are much worse issues than the F legality of music in the world, so I say just play while you can....enjoy while you can...

DJD1

anthemsrob

04-Apr-07, 08:01pm

Selling is not destroying them, if they sell it, someone else gets it, so not much is changing?

hoppuspears

04-Apr-07, 10:29pm

agrred

rhythmboy

04-Apr-07, 11:06pm

I'm no DJ and won't enter the debate above, but call me an old hippy...

I got a few hundred vinyls from the 50's thru to recent, mostly 70/80/90's when I was a record-buying tacker. I treat them like my good book collection. They are documents of an art form, someone's creativity captured for posterity and for all the stuff I've sold over the years to fund periodic poverty, I would never sell my records or CD's. Fuck the money, it's a love thing. Not to mention the killer artwork on the oldies.

I appreciate tho DJ's gotta pay for their tools like any tradie has to. Muso's gotta buy their instruments after all. No good a muso stealing a guitar to go do a paid gig - they'd get the cops on their tail and rightly so. Stolen songs tho, mmm...

johnjay

04-Apr-07, 11:32pm

i feel sorry for the djs of the 90s, having to drive to the record store every week, paying 15 x $20,

dj oldfart

05-Apr-07, 01:20am

U know in the 90's it was much better. Less shit music to go through, we actually had redicencies......not much of this the dj has to run the night bullshit. Not everyone was a dj so if you were good and worked hard u had a chance of landing decent gigs. Now it is moreso who u know not how good you are or how much effort you put in. A lot of promoters dont respect dj's but a good dj can make a venue. Dj's arent artists they are entertainers, on the production side of things well I have been there and done that. The whole production scene has been cheapend to a degree by the vst/ableton culture where any dickhead with a computer can put together a tune flooding the market with total crap. Yes there are some producers out there that are great but they are few and far between. Just because u spend a lot of money on equipment and know all of it backwards it doesnt make you a good producer. Come on lets have a dj vs producer debate! :lol:

Pro Tool

05-Apr-07, 02:19am

Fuck you whinge a lot.

gd_81

05-Apr-07, 02:43am

the 90's was the decade where the dj could suck thousands of dollars up each week just by playing other people's records (and contributing nothing else). It spawned the cult of the celebrity dj- a highly paid fashion queen with a reputation that attracts the plebs who might not of attended even if local dj noname played the exact same set

that period gave rise to the cheesoid super clubs and tours which still do the rounds, resembling more of a marketing exercise designed to empty your wallet than a value for money party with a good vibe

too many producers are scared to write something different in case it doesnt sell. Inspiration loses out to money and the market is flooded with the most boring and sterile attempt at music you've ever heard (breaks is most guilty of this)

mp3's are the worst thing to ever happened to music. It makes it easy for f*ckwit DJ's to render a good sound system pointless by playing mp3's through them and gives multimillionaire celebrities a reason to piss and moan about people filesharing their pop bullshit. Pop music is worse than its ever been. Id rather take a holiday to camp x-ray than listen to the radio.

/rant off

phunkdust

05-Apr-07, 03:16am

so we're all agreed here? djs suck.

DJ D one

05-Apr-07, 08:25am

Djs only suck when they play music done by shitty producers. And they are a lot of DJs out there that play shitty music, that equally tells you a lot about the number of shitty producers out there. I agree with DJ Oldfart that you have to go thru a lot of shit nowadays, BUT I noticed there is a also a lot more good stuff to be found. If you dig a lot you will be rewarded, and you have to dig if not you only get shit...
As a music enthusiast since 1984 things have changed a lot. Nowawdays the average Joe can produce a top song from his bedroom, and the pop artist can produce as much shit as he wants people still buy it (All about money, back then people were not earning as much so fast and could not buy their way in). With the digital age now and the download sites, and the labels poping everywhere, the average joe top song gets out there, but the average joe shit gets out there as well. Since lots of deejay are young dudes that got raised with that digital age, they are influenced into thinking that the average joe shit is good, when its shit...Back in the 80s and early 90s only the top stuff was getting out, nowadays everything goes...the amount of remixes from 80s and 90s that are also poping out tells me a lot about what is happening. Things have been made too easy with the computer, but taste and creativity does not come in a box...

DJD1

DJD1

Lukey

05-Apr-07, 10:39am

hey.

well fuck you all, im going to buy all the records you sell (well the good ones - if you got any that is)

Portal

05-Apr-07, 11:02am

clubs pay the fees. dj's fill out the performance forms. takes 2 to tango. the clubs do their part. the dj's mostly don't.

so there u go...

Please explain how the clubs do their part....

Lukey

05-Apr-07, 11:18am

they should pay a monthly fee to apra

we were told when in my business music class that apra doesn't send royalties to overseas artists, only Australian. People have tried to tell me different but our teacher was a good authority on the subject.

i would be happy to support local artists, but figure giving them gigs is just as supportive than 2cents every month

Portal

05-Apr-07, 11:26am

Cool, I understand that, but how many clubs actually do it?

plan-b

05-Apr-07, 11:27am

Please explain how the clubs do their part....
they pay APRA a fee to have a license to have live music (and DJ's) in their venue...

jazam

05-Apr-07, 03:58pm

stealing music should b given.
if you dont you dont miss out on a whole lot of music.
alot of recording artists get paid more money to DJ and the selling of their music is an avenue to get gigs.

internet age -
of all the music i steal - the good ones i buy on record.

Funkedub

05-Apr-07, 04:08pm

i have dj'd reguarly for a long time, and i can honestly say no-one has ever waved one of these sheets in my face ...

once on NYE at Seven nightclub (NYE just gone btw) i was told to fill out a playlist sheet, but was told it was for the DJ after me so he didnt play the same tracks as me - again something I have never been asked..but i did it! the DJ upstairs who i took over from hadnt tho ! muthaf*cka! and i could tell too when i dropped a track he had played as the crowd were like wtf?
anyway
I'd be well surprised if any dj's here besides the ones that ship interstate to play have seen something like this?

I've filled one out after mixing on the local radio station.

ummm...

i figure some DJs buy a lot of shit tracks because they were cool at the time or just needed them because everyone else was playing it ...

I'm all up for the market being flooded with 2nd vinyl ... it gives me a chance to make my collection grow at a very affordable rate

can't say i've ever been able to bring myself to sell any records ... i generally destroy them if i dont want it anymore .... so at least they can entertain me one last time.

i haven't tried setting fire to one yet though :stroke:

Funkedub

05-Apr-07, 04:12pm

Cool, I understand that, but how many clubs actually do it?

Next time your out and about dining or in a bar ... keep your eyes peeled for an APRA sticker .. usually somewhere on the font of the establishment.

These means they're registered for the rights to play recorded music on their premises.

anthemsrob

05-Apr-07, 04:54pm

they pay APRA a fee to have a license to have live music (and DJ's) in their venue...
Heaven Nightclub (now HQ) here in SA failed to do that for 2 years, they got caught out big time lol, it was on Today/Tonight. Clubs have to pay their part too!

plan-b

05-Apr-07, 04:59pm

Heaven Nightclub (now HQ) here in SA failed to do that for 2 years, they got caught out big time lol, it was on Today/Tonight. Clubs have to pay their part too!
ah k... that's why they shut down... I think I've been there... was a wikkid club!!

AnthonyE

05-Apr-07, 08:32pm

artists are begging people to steal their stuff.. its only natural... like puberty

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00007E8V4.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Bracko

05-Apr-07, 08:57pm

You wanna get legal?

When dj's start paying artists some royalties from all the times they play their (copyright) music at their gigs where they entertain a lot of people and get paid to do it (on a regular basis) then they can start an argument like this. But till that day, they should just enjoy what they do but shut the fuck up. Either lead by example (completely, in all its forms) or shut the fuck up.

Even filling out some performance forms (online) and handing them in to Apra EVERY time they do a gig would be nice, but no. Not even occasionally. Its just too hard after ramming 6 pills up ones ass.

:rainman:

That said, I don't really care what people do, but its good to look at the whole picture instead of focusing in on one of the issues. Especially if you're a pot, a black pot and you're calling someone else a black kettle. That could be racists too if that other person really is black and you're white. But if its the other way around and the black persons calling the white guy ghostface then its ok. Cus thats not racist.

Worlds a crazy place of double standards, deal with it.

:thumb:

as well as being an angry, angry man it might help to actually put something contstructive on the thread as well....

http://www.apra.com.au/Forms/GPL/performance_statement_general.htm

someone should do an article or sticky thread on this topic actually.

dj oldfart

06-Apr-07, 01:07am

Yeah I used to fill out those forms years ago. I was told once again ages ago that the $ that come from the fees are given to artists based on record sales. As 99.999999% of the music I play comes from OS a total of 0$ from apra goes to these artists or so is my understanding. I think this whole apra thing is a pitance compared to record sales/live performances. I do believe that a venue should pay a copyright fee but disagree that it should be to apra, there should be a global licence that no matter where you are u can subscribe to. Then you could say that the majority of music u play is from the EU and your subscription can be given to their version of apra. I just feel that it is totally unfair for these fees to go to top 40 artists when the most predominat music in clubs never gets into the top 40. Yes Pro Tool I am a whinger so up yours :haha: