WANTED: Kawai K5000

[driload]

im after a Kawai K5000 in good condition

hit me up driload@yahoo.com


also email me if you are selling any other VA's such as an ACCESS VIRUS, NORD LEAD, SUPERNOVA 2

etc etc

[Spectrum]

Intriguing synth. What are they worth?

Phil

[driload]

unusually the market is rather to interpretation for these at the moment


and yes, quite an intersting synth

im a chronic synthesist and theres only so much of REAKTOR i can take.


wants me a gooooood bit of k5000 lovin : P

(goes nicely with a supernova2 as well. two very powerful VA's)

[Spectrum]

Hi there,

Check over on the K5000 list at www.yahoogroups.com. There were a couple of "S" models advertised earlier this month for USD$500 and USD$600 respectively. There was also a seller from Brisbane back in May asking AUD$1500 but as you're the expert on going rates (hehe!!) ;-), I think you'll agree there are likely to be better deals available.

"...goes nicely with a supernova2 as well. two very powerful VAs"

BTW, the K5000S isn't VA, rather an additive synth that allows you to build its oscillator waveforms from scratch using sine waves. As a consequence, it's not easy to think, "I want a sawtooth wave" and then go out and create it straight away. The upside is the harmonic bands that comprise the waveform can be tweaked individually over the course of the sound with stellar results.

On a side note, what makes 'virtual analogue' virtual analogue anyway? What differentiates say, an E-mu Xtreme Lead-1 with its 'analogue-esque' filters and 'patch cord' routing options, and the Access Virus with its 'analogue-esque' filters and 'patch cord' routing options.

Both are subtractive synths. Is it the oscillator sync? The pulse-width-modulation? Self-oscillating resonant filters? The hands-on interface? Pure marketing?

Sheesh! Even the K5000 series contains a subtractive 'analogue' synthesis element once you get the waveform construction out of the way.

Best of luck tracking down your 5000S.

Phil

[driload]

howdy

"Sheesh! Even the K5000 series contains a subtractive 'analogue' synthesis element once you get the waveform construction out of the way."


yep. but yes you did call me on my error... the k5000 is additive, but also, like you agree, virtual analog synthesis is great on this board (in terms of routing and results)


a good price for the k5000 is under 1k. seriously though the prices have been fluctuating though... not sure why. some people with overly optimistic returns estimates?


when i first began using this board i hated it, complex and even edittng presets you could lose a tonne of great sounds with over-enthusiastic knob twiddling


but i miss it now. sound diver helps a lot as does a good sequencer.

ps, i paired it with the SN2 cause they complement each other so well. the SN2 is very useful live as well, while the K5K, the heavy bitch that it is, sits nicely in the studio and always beckons the attention

my fav of the VA market

and yes... they are marketted as VA's both. additive synthesis techniques or not, it is still riding in the "oh look everyone VA is suddenyl cool" advertising wave

[Phibbler]

What are the difference between VA's and DCO's (please don't answer "the sound" :))

[Spectrum]

"...they are marketted as VA's both. additive synthesis techniques or not"

Actually, the K5000S doesn't get a single 'virtual analogue' or 'analogue modelling' reference in the sales brochure.

In fact, it only speaks of 'classic analogue synth waveforms' as part of the PCM samples. Go figure!

Phil

[Spectrum]

"...What are the difference between VA's and DCO's"

- DCO (Digitally Controlled Oscillator):
An analog oscillating circuit controlled and monitored by a digital microchip.

- VA (Virtual Analogue):
A complete synthesizer model, including the oscillator, based around the traditional 'analogue' synth structure, but created in the mathematical (digital) realm. It doesn't become an analogue sound source until it's passed through a digital-to-analogue converter (DAC) so that it can be listened to through your amplifier and speakers/headphones.

Phil

[Phibbler]

VA's do a complete synthesizer model, including the oscillator, and filtering and EFX but created in the mathematical (digital) realm.

a dco is a wave from a solid state component that pumps out a analog signal through it's own DAC's then modified else where

So what exactly is the difference quantitatively between a VCO and an DCO? they both come from solid state components. I know DCO =digital controlled oscillator and VCO = voltage controlled oscillator. What does that means in terms of actual creation of the waveform right down to the chipset level, i.e controlled how?

[Spectrum]

The way I understand it (and I'm no electrical engineer)...

In a VCO, the frequency of oscillations (ie. pitch) is bound to the accuracy or tolerance of the circuitry's components. As a result, time and heat inevitably results in fluctuations of pitch.

In a DCO, the analogue oscillator circuitry is kept in check by a digital timing device. It ensures the oscillator resets itself, for example, 440 times per second every time a 'middle A' is triggered. The actual waveform rise and fall (ie. shape) is still a product of the oscillator's analogue components.

The 'fatness' of an analogue system really starts to shine in 'unison' mode where several oscillators are stacked up together. The minute fluctuations in pitch and wave shape provide a fuller, beefier sound. DCOs tend to not produce nearly as dramatic results (although still impressive over VA) due to its more accurate tuning.

VA synths, on the other hand, don't reap the benefits of unison without a bit of help. Their phase-accurate oscillator clones align perfectly so all that results is a louder waveform with no character boost. Kinda like staring down at a stack of playing cards straight out of the pack - only the top card remains visible albeit sitting higher off the table. One must then detune each oscillator (mess the stack of cards up) to achieve a similar result to its analogue counterparts.

Sorry I can't offer more technical info on oscillator circuit specifics. If I find out anything more, I'll be sure to stop by and propagate Driload's thread some more.

Incidentally (and to keep us on topic), the K5000 contains 128 digitally-created sine wave oscillators for each of its 32 voices - a staggering 4096 oscillators in total! And each oscillator is followed by a DCA (Digitally Controlled Amplifier) model.

Forget analogue, let's try and see even the Nord Modular or Dual GHz Mac running Reaktor try to compete with that!

Phil

[Spectrum]

Here's a wonderful insight from a very knowledgeable member over on the MC-505 list. Respect to drK for his input. Feel free to join the list over at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mc505/ if you'd like to continue in the discussion. Don't worry, it's not all 'Groovebox' talk - if any at all!

Phil



> http://www.vintagesynth.com/techniques/faq.html
> "DCO...An analog oscillating circuit controlled and monitored by a digital
> microchip"

This is incorrect! By this definition every polysynth since and including
the Prophet 5 would be considered to have DCOs! Simply not true.

[BTW, the definition of VCO is even worse]

There are two general types of DCOs in use, and neither are what most people
expect.

First, consider the normal analog polysynth. In that design the VCO is
under control by a microprocessor, which puts out a voltage (from a D/A) to
set the pitch of the VCO. Some of these poly's also go as far as to
generate all of the control voltages using the microprocessor, including
LFOs and EGs. These are added up in the processor and outputted as a single
pitch voltage value. Other designs use more conventional analog LFOs and
EGs, though those are much rarer beasts.

The important thing to realize here is that the conventional analog synth,
which has some type of patch memory, uses the above scheme, including such
classics as the Prophet 5.

Oscillator stability, especially in regard to tuning correctness across the
playable range, is handled by having the processor calibrate the VCO,
literally measuring its frequency at various control points and then working
out a correction factor, both for scale errors and frequency offset. Most
analog synths with true VCOs (controlled by the processor) also feature an
autotune capability to redo this process, say during a performance.

This is what most people think of when they hear "digitally controlled
oscillator" as indeed the VCO is controlled digitally. But this is not what
DCOs are.

The first type of DCO uses a digital circuit to generate each of the notes
of the scale by dividing a fast clock. The master clock can be an analog
VCO or it can be a crystal controlled oscillator. In each case the pitch
relationships between notes is very precise and accurate, and the only
noticeable errors arise from frequency offsets, which in the case of the
crystal oscillator will be minimal. In fact if a crystal osc is used then
it tends to be the only osc in the system, with every voice's "DCO" derived
from this single reference clock. Needless to say this produces rather
"lifeless" sounding oscillators. It is more common for the high speed OSC
to be a voltage controlled one so that modulations can be applied, say
vibrator or from an EG. This gives rise to some degree of pitch instability
in the form of offset drift, but also makes the resulting sound more lively
because of the beat frequencies formed between two or more voices sounding
simultaneously.

Waveform generation, the SAW, TRI, PULSE, etc, is accomplished by using
digital techniques. This is similar to what is done today in some VAs in
that the desired output waveform is encoded as a single cycle into a digital
memory and then scanned out at a rate determined by the divided-down high
speed oscillator. This gives variety on the waveforms but can lead to
rather "hollow" sounding waves.

A second approach uses a similar scheme but instead of using a memory to
store the desired output wave shapes these are generated using a more or
less conventional VCO approach, with the "VCO" synchronized to the DCO. In
this approach the actual waveforms are true SAW, TRI, and PULSE, so they
sound a bit more lively. Over the playing range these waveforms may suffer
some amplitude variation, though it is normally not an issue.

What now follows is opinion.

To my ears true VCOs sound very different from any other substitute. That
is not to say that the alternatives are not musically useful or even good
sounding, simply different. The more computer control brought into the
picture *of vintage synth designs* the less lively the oscillators sound in
use.

The material difference between a true analog VCO and a VA emulation is
significantly audible. A good VA though can sound excellent.

Analog synths with highly digital waveform generation tend, to my ears, to
be not that different than a similar VA approach. The difference has to do
with oscillator aliasing, and the very good VAs tend to minimize this, while
others have adopted it as part of the synths "character". VAs "give
themselves up" when you listen to the oscillator unmodified and play a
chromatic scale slowly. The aliasing variation will be noticeable, even at
lower pitches.

Most of the appeal sonically for the DCO-based vintage synths comes from the
filters, and possibly the remainder of the signal path. If "real" EGs and
LFOs are used that also increases the illusion of "analog", though these are
more rare than you might think.

If I was "spec'ing" an analog for acquisition I would place a lot of
emphasis on the way the oscillator generates its waveforms. Unless I was
after something like an original PPG I would gravitate towards first a true
completely analog VCO based synth (think Minimoog or some of the earlier
Japanese synths), and then after that to the better implemented
VCO-under-computer-control synths like the Prophet 5. DCO synths would hold
little attraction *for me*.

In my mind this attitude changes the landscape of the VA vs Vintage
argument. Yes, if the choice is between a "real" analog like a Minimoog, or
even a computer controlled analog like a Chroma or Prophet, then the true
analog has character advantages in the sound and would be materially
different in use than any VA yet made. But when the choice is between say a
decent DCO synth, or even an overly computer controlled VCO one (without
crisp EG and LFOs) than the choice is no longer so clear. I'd probably
gravitate more toward a good sounding VA because of its own advantages.

drK
>
> Just wondering at the nuts'n'bolts level how does the 'digital microchip'
> control the oscillator? What does it spit out (from assumedly a
> Digital-to-Analogue Converter) that the oscillator uses to maintain tuning?
>
> Phil

[driload]

Originally posted by Spectrum
"...they are marketted as VA's both. additive synthesis techniques or not"

Actually, the K5000S doesn't get a single 'virtual analogue' or 'analogue modelling' reference in the sales brochure.

In fact, it only speaks of 'classic analogue synth waveforms' as part of the PCM samples. Go figure!

Phil

sales brochures?


do you interact with REAL humans at all?


what a bore...

and for the record, the "price fluctuation" i was talking about has to do with Aus being one of the cheapest countries to get a k5k... other still retailed em at full price. i wouldnt bat an eyelid at one of these units going under 750 (which is a fair price s/h)




ps, spectrum.... you need to get laid or something. you trying to win points?


you have issues. sort them out.


pps, "Forget analogue, let's try and see even the Nord Modular or Dual GHz Mac running Reaktor try to compete with that!"


well um... obviously the K5K doesnt run them all AT ONCE! and seeing as reaktor is inherently self constructed modular.... it can compete.

again... tone down your ego's thirst for ITM board praise matey.

as long as i get my weekly paycheck as an audio engineer im happy... i dont feel the need to try to sound super smart... whats your excuse? why act the asshole?

[Spectrum]

Oh dear, it's just like being at school....


"...sales brochures? do you interact with REAL humans at all?"

Um... er, an old brochure I picked up a couple of years back from a store with *real* sales people. So what? It wasn't marketed as VA, that's all. Settle down, I'm not having a go at you.


"...i wouldnt bat an eyelid at one of these units going under 750 (which is a fair price s/h)"

You asked around for some secondhand units. I happened to know of some so I posted. Incidentally, the cheapest I've seen a K5000S new in Australia is $1200. The cheapest I've seen one secondhand in Australia is $600. I purchased mine for $850 around a year ago.


"...obviously the K5K doesnt run them all AT ONCE!"

Sure it can. The oscillators may be theoretical models however they do all run at once. One 'voice' contains 128 independently pitched sine waves - all sounding together as harmonics at varying volume levels to produce the final tone. Hold down 32 notes... 4096 oscillators.


"...and seeing as reaktor is inherently self constructed modular.... it can compete."

Agreed wholeheartedly, but processor power becomes a major restricting issue. I'm not sure of Reaktor's performance specs (but obviously computer related), however from what I've heard about the Nord Modular, it'll max out at around 36 oscillators. I don't expect the K5000's processor is particularly potent so it's probably down to an efficient algorithm that could easily be ported to a soft synth.


"...again... tone down your ego's thirst for ITM board praise matey."

Huh? I personally could care less, and besides, it's hardly ITM gossip.

But it does keep your thread at the top of the board for any likely K5000 sellers to stumble across so I'm not quite sure what you're complaining about.


"...as long as i get my weekly paycheck as an audio engineer im happy"

Is that all you care about? It's starting to show.


"...i dont feel the need to try to sound super smart... whats your excuse?"

Hey I'm still learning. Always will be. But if one's going to invest the time to learn something, they may as well learn it properly. Otherwise, what's the point? Refusing to acknowledge one's misunderstanding on a topic is just plain ignorant.

Of course, music production is all about what sounds good, right? But surely a little technical know-how can help - particularly in such a heavily tech-based environment. I don't care or claim to know everything, but when something puzzles me that I'm interested in, I try to find out more (eg. VCO vs DCO). Someone else was curious too... Great. Let's both find out.

For someone with an active interest in audio engineering, I'm a little taken back by your apparent narrow-mindedness, rudeness, and negativity. With the attitude that seems to have emerged in your last post, I can't imagine you'll be receptive to learning much more. That's a great shame. I'm sure you'd like to be in the position to dish out paychecks to other people one day. By that time you'll have junior operators keen to know everything there is. Will you be there to guide them? Or is it all about the money?


"...why act the asshole?"

Either you've completely misread me, or it's become quite clear who the asshole is. I'm sure you're an intelligent and pleasant guy in real life, but why you choose to act like this on an anonymous forum is beyond me.

Best of luck,

Phil

[driload]

hahaha

i knew you'de bite! :P


we are too alike


this could be fun but we should let it die


it would go on forever

[Spectrum]

"...we are too alike"

Hmmm... really???

Similar interests maybe, but I just don't get the vague, deliberate dumbing down of your replies, and the allegedly intentional misunderstandings, all so as to not 'sound super smart'. Huh?

I don't have a problem if people innocently and honestly don't get something, I love to help 'em out, but what's all that about?

While you don't offend me, I wonder why you go out of your way to act like a complete prat. Your ego's too cool to be doing something constructive? Give yourself a break.

Perhaps you're still young and have yet to find anything better to do with your life. How about making a positive difference? You're out of school and in the real world now.

Over it.

Phil

[driload]

you're just a pepped up into yourself out and out wanker arent you?


to the people who PM'd, ask him not me. but yes, a wanker he is


the proof is in the size of your messages, and the fact you actually EDIT them.... obviously to extract every last ounce of apparent knowledgable wittiness from the lameness of your life


have fun being a wannabe psuedo-intellectual message-board loser. im sure its very fulfilling.... perhaps the only distraction from a mundane life?

i would imagine so.

[Spectrum]

Again, you come across as a miserable soul. Perhaps you know no better? That's sad. In time though, I expect you'll grow out of it. Thankfully, most people do.

Over and out.

Phil

[Phibbler]

Egads, all i asked was about synthesis :-0

Controversial stuff ...

[driload]

pathetic as usual

i notice for once the loser didnt need to edit his message

possibly got parental help on that one



is this the kind of character (ie, wankers) my kids have to put up with at raves?

or are you some sadist with a thirst for internet nerdism



step off geek, youre out of your league

[nexus-6]

jeez spectrum - didn't you know it wasn't cool to be knowledgeable, precise, informative, helpful and polite.

[Spitchen]

:lol:

Thank you Bob, you've made my day! :lol:

"Oscillator stability, especially in regard to tuning correctness across the playable range, is handled by having the processor calibrate the VCO, literally measuring its frequency at various control points and then working out a correction factor, both for scale errors and frequency offset"

Right on bro! :lol:

[polarbear]

ok.

the K5000 doesn't allow you to have individual control over individual sinewaves..only groups of oscillators. say all odd, all even, all above the 16th etc etc.

that's your first hint that it's not really 128 virtual oscillators per voice.

here's the reality - it doesn't calculate sin waves and anti-alias in realtime like the Nord or Reaktor.

Instead it manages massive tables full of precalculated sin waves. it can generate, say the first 16 harmonics and by doubling (and so on) the rate at which the tables are read out it can generate the other harmonics. a little anti aliasing (read low pass filter) and we're off.

the nord, and reaktor, can both generate pure antialiaed sin waves - the nord at 24bit 96kHz and reaktor at any sample rate you want.

of course, in reaktor you can do the same thing - generate audio-rate tables full of sinewaves and read them out at different rates. I haven't tried this, but I have built a 32 partial additive synth (with individual level and envelope control) and gotten 24 notes polyphony out of my G4.

In reaktor you can also use parabola's; very close to pure sinwaves for about 2/3 of the processing time. no they aren't triangle waves.

in the nord - you have to use the sin bank or the slave sin wave modules - in the nord a bank of 6 sin waves uses 17% of one of the four DSP chips. FM techniques lend themselves to much more complex textures for much less processing time.

[Spectrum]

DRiLoad,

You've got kids, eh??? Nice one. Your ongoing persistence has led me to check out your site (http://analogik.com). I now discover you're an eager 20yo music student with an interest in philosophy, so quite frankly, you should know better. Haven't you learnt in your studies that the world is full of people that follow different ideologies to your own? It would be a very ordinary place otherwise. Hey, why not go out and learn to fly a commercial airliner with a map of the city layout in your lap - the mentality is the same.

As a professional audio technology journalist, studio owner, and over 15 years of music experience, in time I've become quite proficient with a lot of equipment and techniques, all of which has lead me to tackle many concepts that I still to this day find difficult to grasp. My input to this thread was purely driven by my personal passion for the subject matter. There was no intent to ridicule you, only to discuss ideas that I presumed you'd be seriously interested in. If you've misunderstood something, that's fine, but that's not an open invitation to slander somebody whose background you know nothing of yet is willing to share. At least be grateful that there are people out there ready to guide your narrow-mindedness.

I get more than enough workload and reward from clients, articles, and readers queries without feeling the need to siphon obscure message boards such as this one (ie. the 'buying/selling' component - not necessarily ITM as a whole) for anonymous compliments. And at the end of the day, it's ultimately music that drives me - not a 'scene' to be 'seen' in.

Upon a further look at your site, I discover an intriguing new product: The Analogik DP-02 MIDI Controller. Looks extremely promising as there's an enormous market trend towards software-oriented sound design, as I'm sure you're aware, but I find it increasingly arduous to offer any support in light of your actions on this board. Sure, the DP-02 may not be your concept, but while you and it are linked by the Analogik banner, the way you choose to act consequently reflects on the reputation of the product(s) you stand by.

I'm always on the lookout for new products to review or promote before a worldwide readership. It's doesn't cost a cent to the developer yet the potential impact on sales is enormous.

However, when the one of the organisation's own representatives can't show a fellow person some basic decency, regardless of the topic, business inevitably suffers. While I'm sure you're all mates, the guy behind this project should boot you out. He doesn't need your immature cowboy antics destroying his vision. Why don't you invite him here to show off how you're single-handedly tarnishing the Analogik brand. And if he shares the same mindset as you, which I sincerely doubt, then there's little hope, is there?

Take a look at the remarkable growth of fresh companies such as Novation and Access in very recent times. This is in a market that's been dominated by synth heavyweights: Roland, Korg, and Yamaha, for good three decades.

Aside from producing great products, much of Novation and Access' loyal customer base is built upon the hardworking and sincere interaction by their programmers, designers, and company directors with their real world users via mailing groups and message boards. As a result, the rapport these companies foster, in comparison to others that show little interest in the customers on such a ground level (namely Roland), has a major influence on the general consensus of their integrity.

You make out that the Internet is some fantasy world. Do you need me to point out that the 'Net in 2002 is populated by real, everyday people, and not some pimply-faced geek club?

I suggest you go away and have a serious think about what you're trying to achieve with this rubbish. While you insist on continuing with it, you're not helping anyone, not your friends, and certainly not yourself.

Phil

[Spectrum]

Cheers for the Reaktor/NM info, Polarbear.

That's interesting stuff. And with the stellar results already obtainable by both packages, regardless of my assertion of their 'limited' technologies, one wonders if more programming power will ever open up opportunities for a more diverse soundset. Perhaps not.

Incidentally, the K5000 series does allow for individual 'oscillator' or partial control. From the 'Harmonic Level Edit Groups' section, you can select 'Each' and then adjust the level of whichever individual harmonic you desire (as well as the Bright, Dark, Odd, Even etc. harmonic groups you mentioned).

Still, I don't expect it'd take much programming ingenuity to pull off a K5000-esque soft synth with today's PC processors. But until then...

Anyone a programmer out there?

Phil

[driload]

"Anyone a programmer out there?"

why yes i am


but thats not the point



your insistence to maintain some holier-than-thou attitude through the twists and turns of the mind **** i perpetuated on you for a few good laughs comes to a halt at my rather "open to the public" identity


i would happily take any SERIOUS discussion to email, to save the board this slanging match


as for the analogik controller, or more importantly the one ive built and will continue to use as a part of the "also very public" live act SUPERFLUID is a case of "doing it yourself in a vaccuum of cost effective performance issues"... also known as "phatboy (http://www.zzounds.com/love.music?p=p.KEYPHATBOY&f=2035) is a piece of crap"


at the risk of making MYSELF look the ass in this daily flaming mindf&ck..... i could care less.

at the risk of Analogik becoming defamed thru my relationships with it (part business owner and co-founder).... i retract nothing but emphasise the ridiculous nature of an internet flame-fest

at the risk of making SUPERFLUID look foolish... well we are anyway...


but out of respect for the final EFFORT you make to be POLITE, without the earlier traces of arrogant ego-indulgence, i will end this here, keeping in mind the crescendo of arrogance of both parties that made this so amusing



and a final thing... that bio is years out of date. i let the record company take care of all that now. but the essence of that is still me....


unapolagetically light-hearted with a twist of mind-**** that can cause a bit of trouble :P ;P

[polarbear]

> Incidentally, the K5000 series does allow for individual 'oscillator' or partial > control.

it allows you control over the level of a harmonic, but not an individual envelope for each harmonic, does it? sheesh. a harmonic that doesn't move over time is just a beep.

the K5000 was an interesting synth, a tad noisy, that had a misleading press release (can make any sounds using 128 partial additive synthesis!!!). it makes some interesting pads and bells. it has that unfortunate kawai sound - lumpy bass (like ensoniq) etc that is endemic of synths that don't use modern 24 or 32bit methods for calculating waveforms.

it sonic quality doesn't compare even to old additive synths (DX7). anyone who claims it does needs a new pair of ears, and a lesson in additive synthesis.

[MadMike]

Stop it. You boys are turning me on.

[hpstekno]

phil enigma style?

thanx for the info spectrum and polarbear i now know a bit more about additive synthesis it really does my noodle in sometimes :lol:

give me subtractive at least i can understand osc through filter through eg's through amp scenario :lol:
peace H.P.S?

http://www.davgan.com

[Spectrum]

G,Day HPS?,

Yeah, I know where you're coming from... Setting out to intentionally pull off a fat sawtooth is exceedingly difficult - and even then the results are quite poor in comparison to early VAs such as my AN1x.

However, once the oscillator is formed, the rest of the synth follows the traditional subtractive path. That's the easy part.

Like Polarbear mentioned, the K5000 isn't nearly capable of the wide sonic palette it may have been be promoted as - well at least not from a pleasant tonal point of view. Much of the typical synth-verging-on-cheesy-brass sounding patches resemble cheap 'casiotone' presets, while the bass sounds are characterless, and tainted by a nasty metallic and noisy sheen. Whereas, something as simple(?) as a Nord Micro Modular produces some of the loveliest 'molten goo' D'n'B basslines I've ever come across.

But for pads, atmospherics and other effects that warp over time, the K5000 shines... and that's where it comes into play for me, as well as making a very comfortable master controller contained in one very stylish chassis.

Have a great weekend.

Phil

[polarbear]

> Setting out to intentionally pull off a fat sawtooth is exceedingly difficult -
> and even then the results are quite poor in comparison to early VAs

yeah right. I always plan my tofu burger dinner by purchasing a big steak.

;-)

[djdrey]

Originally posted by driload
your insistence to maintain some holier-than-thou attitude through the twists and turns of the mind **** i perpetuated on you for a few good laughs comes to a halt at my rather "open to the public" identity

What are you guys fighting about ?? If you don't mind, please take it off board? I didn't see anything in the previous messages that warranted the reaction you gave it driload - the guy was only trying to help and you've told him to take a running jump !?!

Let's keep the forum a little happier shall we...

[Spectrum]

Originally posted by polarbear
> Setting out to intentionally pull off a fat sawtooth is exceedingly difficult -
> and even then the results are quite poor in comparison to early VAs

yeah right. I always plan my tofu burger dinner by purchasing a big steak.

;-)

hehe! :-)

[bobdobilina]

well for all that entertainment, it's worth pointing out that there's a brisbane based guy selling what you want over on the RA boards for $1100.

[Dj Logik]

man, about 5k for the supernova 2, very cool synth though :)

Andrew

[phatboy]

Good Lord Lads ! wots going on in here.......

Driload....out of line mate, never use my name in vain :lol:

and hummm.....i think i know who Spectrum is, thanks for the useful info again, and thanks for the articles.

and Capt Suthers, as always it's been a 'time to learn'
with you around.

let's keep in mind gents, we're all hopfully here for the same reason...... M U S I C :)

peas,

the other phatboy_the other other whitemeat.