Digital DJ'ing

[Blink Me]

Ok, so I want to DJ using my laptop, using Ableton Live and being able to control the program with a mixer.
1st Question: Would a USB MIDI DJ Interface work?
2nd Question: Which of these 3?
(a) M-Audio X-Session Pro USB MIDI DJ Mixer Controller (http://www.storedj.com.au/products/product.php?id=1371)
(b) Numark Total Control USB DJ Interface (http://www.storedj.com.au/products/product.php?id=1466)
(c) Vestax VCI-100 USB controller (http://www.storedj.com.au/products/product.php?id=1383)
Of course, the more expensive the better, but I just want to know is spending more money really worth it?
So would this work? Or do I completely have the wrong idea?
Thanks once more.

[beakers]

1. yes

2. none.... check out the novation remote sl series I have a remote sl25 and the automap feature is brilliant. you just click on a device on screen and the novation automatically maps it out and you can even set up your own templates. if you're not planning on production work you would probably want to check out the remote sl zero.... same features as the others just without keys

[Blink Me]

1. yes

2. none.... check out the novation remote sl series I have a remote sl25 and the automap feature is brilliant. you just click on a device on screen and the novation automatically maps it out and you can even set up your own templates. if you're not planning on production work you would probably want to check out the remote sl zero.... same features as the others just without keys

You mean this thing? http://www.storedj.com.au/products/product.php?id=1204
Can you scratch etc. with that?

[Bracko]

read reviews and research them.

google until your fingers bleed.

[omnipresence]

Can you scratch etc. with that?you can't scratch in ableton anyway (it wasn't originally designed as DJ software).

[Bracko]

it still isn't designed to be DJ software.

[Blink Me]

But the USB Interfaces have the ability to scratch. How does that work?

[Donnie Darko]

ableton dosent use platters dude, thats what thier trying to say

platter style controllers are for programs like traktor

ableton needs knobs and buttons... something like a nice bcr2000 or korg padkontrol even

[Blink Me]

ableton dosent use platters dude, thats what thier trying to say

platter style controllers are for programs like traktor

ableton needs knobs and buttons... something like a nice bcr2000 or korg padkontrol even
Well Traktor Le comes with it. That'll work fine, no?

[Donnie Darko]

comes with what ?

dude, try the demos first, see how u like them

[Blink Me]

"TRAKTOR LE (Native Instrument Inc.)"
Never heard of it?
Shit.
Probably will try out the demo. Good idea. But what of the Vestax VCI-100 USB Controller? Good idea?

[fewture]

ive got the m-audio xsession pro - for $99 US from the states, its a real bargin..

Works really well. Very basic, but ive done some high quality mixes with it. Just so much better than playing with the mouse. Missing some stuff (like eq kill) and could do with a few more buttons but so good for the price

do recommend getting a novation sl25 or something like it, if you are into production too..

[blahblahblah]

it still isn't designed to be DJ software.

Care to provide evidence to back this statement up ?

You ever used Ableton ?

it's information or statements like this that Newbies have to be careful of.
You can mix 2 tracks with Ableton yeah ? ... so how is it not DJ software ?

Hell .. you can DJ from Windows Media player if you want.

[Bracko]

define DJing first and I'll explain why ;)

yes i have used ableton demo for a month then decided i didn't want to take that route and bought traktor.

[blahblahblah]

define DJing first and I'll explain why ;)

yes i have used ableton demo for a month then decided i didn't want to take that route and bought traktor.

The Definition of DJ'ing is not "Using 2 platters or turn-tables to mix\scratch music" .. this is the only thing Ableton Live cannot do. .. and even if you want it to .. you can use the new Windows only VST plugin that allows you to control Ableton using time-coded Vinyl I believe.

The most basic definition of DJ'ing is selecting music to be played usually to a crowd or audience.

The title of this thread is Digital DJ'ing .. and id say Ableton is definately worthy of mention ..

a statement like "Ableton isn't designed for DJ'ing" is false information .. the guy is trying to find out what different ways there are to Digitally DJ ... and your telling him Ableton isn't designed for DJ'ing ??

[DJ Fusion]

But it isn't designed for DJing, think about the meaning of the words you're using. A toothpick isn't meant to be a cone stoker but even though I still use it for that I'm not going to say it was designed for that reason, because it wasn't.

[gamblore]

Abelton will even say themselves that it wasn't DESIGNED for DJing. So I'm sorry but your wrong. Just like DJ Fusion said, it may not be designed for it, but you can still use it to mix.

[blahblahblah]

There is a tutorial in Ableton Live .. about how to DJ with Ableton ?? Ableton.com has a feature on Sasha and his use of Ableton ?? It's won countless awards in DJ magazines.

Ok .. so if you want to get nicky picky then ok.. your right Ableton was never "dedicated or specifically designed for DJing"

But i think it's wrong to tell a Newbie that Ableton isn't designed for DJ'ing.

Donnie Darko atleast explained it a little better. Sorry guys .. you can have the Win ;) you are right technically ;)

If you want to get real technical haha you could say .. "Ableton was never designed to be controlled by moving platters" Cause DJ's (Disc or Disk Jockies dont need to use platters).

Sorry to hijack the thread Blink Me !

as everyone has suggested ! google your ass off.
www.abletonlivedj.com for Ableton related stuff.
Traktor & Virtual DJ both have forums aswell.

Some of the other companies like Behringer supply a form of DJ software with their hardware product .. ex Numark provide you with Virtual DJ .. well it's a form of it .. as Numark bought the rights to it.

What sort of music are you mixing ? do you intend to scratch ? do you want the hands on ability that Platters\Turntables provide ?

[beakers]

ableton IS designed for djing.... It is more heavily geared toward production yes.... but they have designed a lot of features which are there for djing rather than production. It even has a crossfader.. that is there for nothing other than mixing (although I never use it) I think you might need a little more than a month on a demo version to really understand how it works and what it can do. I've been using it for 2 years now and I learn something new every day.

[Donnie Darko]

ableton is djing

just not the traditional kind

end argument

( " but myyy art is the correct one ! " )

[beakers]

it has djing in ableton in the manual.

[Gruso]

The Definition of DJ'ing is not "Using 2 platters or turn-tables to mix\scratch music"Actually, the definition of "Disc Jockeying" is exactly that. :P

[Bracko]

The Definition of DJ'ing is not "Using 2 platters or turn-tables to mix\scratch music" .. this is the only thing Ableton Live cannot do. .. and even if you want it to .. you can use the new Windows only VST plugin that allows you to control Ableton using time-coded Vinyl I believe.

The most basic definition of DJ'ing is selecting music to be played usually to a crowd or audience.

The title of this thread is Digital DJ'ing .. and id say Ableton is definately worthy of mention ..

a statement like "Ableton isn't designed for DJ'ing" is false information .. the guy is trying to find out what different ways there are to Digitally DJ ... and your telling him Ableton isn't designed for DJ'ing ??

mixing tracks downloaded from beatport is not what ableton is for.

ableton is a multi channel software sequencer. designed for the live environment.

there are programs far more suited to a DJ than ableton. especially one with no experience.

remember.... opinion, not fact.

traktor scratch is a DJ program, ableton is not.

[blahblahblah]

mixing tracks downloaded from beatport is not what ableton is for.

ableton is a multi channel software sequencer. designed for the live environment.

there are programs far more suited to a DJ than ableton. especially one with no experience.

remember.... opinion, not fact.

traktor scratch is a DJ program, ableton is not.


Ableton is a DJ program haha I still dont know why you keep saying this ..

Although Dj'ing with it is simply a fraction of what it can do ! .. it's still seen as a DJ program !!

Not sure what sound your into .. but fark .. there are top DJ's all over the place using Solely Ableton Live and a controller ! Why would A&H make a $3000 mixer and make custom Ableton templates for it ??

having argued all this ! .. I started with Virtual DJ .. I then went Traktor .. I then have been Ableton for 1.5yrs .. I have just purchased CDJ's and am loving it !!! .. so I dont sit on any fences ! but I do hold Ableton close to my heart .. and when someone says shes not for DJ's .. then I tend to stick up for her ;)

It's all good mate .. we are going to argue about this for ever ! I do however suggest you put more time into Ableton ! .. I found I was banging my head for 3-4months before I really started enjoying it !

For a newbie though ... maybe Virtual DJ .. or Traktor are easier to learn ! but im not arguing what is easier or harder .. Im arguing that Ableton is for DJ's !!! if they want it ;)

[Bracko]

you still seem to be skipping over the fact that ableton is not intended to be used to mix the latest top 10 from beatport.


ableton is a performance tool, it is not aimed at DJ's. you can argue all you want, but ableton was not DJ software, it's a sequencer. yes, "DJ's" do use it and I'm glad you like it, really i am, it's a great product and I to enjoy using it with remix packages, but a DJ's mixing program is comparable to a 3 yearold using autoCAD to draw a picture of a pretty pony.

sure, you can do it. but autodesk don't sit around in brainstorming sessions thinking about the 3 year old.

[gamblore]

remember.... opinion, not fact.

Exactly. People seem to be bluring that line a lot around here.

when someone says shes not for DJ's ..

Im arguing that Ableton is for DJ's !!!

I don't think you understand. Abelton can be used to mix, yes, but it was never DESIGNED for DJing. It was never meant to be for DJ's.

[gamblore]

you still seem to be skipping over the fact that ableton is not intended to be used to mix the latest top 10 from beatport.


ableton is a performance tool, it is not aimed at DJ's. you can argue all you want, but ableton was not DJ software, it's a sequencer. yes, "DJ's" do use it and I'm glad you like it, really i am, it's a great product and I to enjoy using it with remix packages, but a DJ's mixing program is comparable to a 3 yearold using autoCAD to draw a picture of a pretty pony.

sure, you can do it. but autodesk don't sit around in brainstorming sessions thinking about the 3 year old.

Sorry missed this. Pretty much sums it up. Arguement over.

[DJ D one]

Want to see a bunch of idiots arguing about some silly crap...

Read this thread...honestly...award winning!!!

D1

[Bracko]

considering the absolute shit on this forum of late it's a change to talk to someone who isn't all about electro house and if i can mix for under $200 with my stolenz mp3's.

[Donnie Darko]

you still seem to be skipping over the fact that ableton is not intended to be used to mix the latest top 10 from beatport.


ableton is a performance tool, it is not aimed at DJ's. you can argue all you want, but ableton was not DJ software, it's a sequencer. yes, "DJ's" do use it and I'm glad you like it, really i am, it's a great product and I to enjoy using it with remix packages, but a DJ's mixing program is comparable to a 3 yearold using autoCAD to draw a picture of a pretty pony.

sure, you can do it. but autodesk don't sit around in brainstorming sessions thinking about the 3 year old.

this subjective fact outlines the flaws in your theorem padiwan

some people outside would like to talk you... like phil hartnoll of orbital... or nathan fake... or dylan rhymes.. etc etc

[Bracko]

all producers and all not the 3 year old analogy i brought up.

[blahblahblah]

Exactly. People seem to be bluring that line a lot around here.



I don't think you understand. Abelton can be used to mix, yes, but it was never DESIGNED for DJing. It was never meant to be for DJ's.

you still seem to be skipping over the fact that ableton is not intended to be used to mix the latest top 10 from beatport.


ableton is a performance tool, it is not aimed at DJ's. you can argue all you want, but ableton was not DJ software, it's a sequencer. yes, "DJ's" do use it and I'm glad you like it, really i am, it's a great product and I to enjoy using it with remix packages, but a DJ's mixing program is comparable to a 3 yearold using autoCAD to draw a picture of a pretty pony.

sure, you can do it. but autodesk don't sit around in brainstorming sessions thinking about the 3 year old.




When did I ever say .. "Ableton is specifically designed for DJ's" ??? I started this argument because someone said it still isn't" Yeah back when it first came out ! .. but I bet you $500 .. that the designers of Ableton .. from as far back as .. 4 were changing design features of Ableton to meet what DJ's want. I've read allot of articles about top name DJ's who use Ableton Live .. some of them Ableton Only ... some of them fusing it as a performance tool .. or enhancement could you call it ! This makes it "DJ Software" ... alooooooong with .. *insert all of ableton live's features here* I know for a fact that the designers or programmers of Ableton Live .. have gathered feedback from DJ's .. to enhance the product !!!

Im more into Breaks myself .. and quite recently I saw Rennie Pilgrim rock one of the best crowds I've personally ever seen at the Moonbar here in Brisbane .. and what did he use to DJ with ??? Ableton ! and Ableton only !!! Although maybe he had a mix cd in .. and he was simply updating his myspace ??


Whats with this beatport argument ?? Since when did I say you had to only use Ableton to mix top 10 beatport tracks ? hahaha .. much like your analogy of the 3yr old busting out on the autocad.

Suburu didn't design the WRX for the 17yr old boy racers ? Can they still go fast though ? YES !

just because the programmer who entered the first line of code into Ableton didn't intend for it to be DJ software .. doesn't mean it's not DJ software ;) DJ's are using it to Mix tunes ... sounds like it is DJ related software to me !

[DJ Fusion]

Want to see a bunch of idiots arguing about some silly crap...

Read this thread...honestly...award winning!!!

D1

Oi, I resemble that remark.. :P

[Bracko]

Whats with this beatport argument ?? Since when did I say you had to only use Ableton to mix top 10 beatport tracks ? hahaha .. much like your analogy of the 3yr old busting out on the autocad.


now we're back to defining what is DJing and where does one draw the line between a DJ, remix artist and live performer/producer.

this is just going to go around in circles now.

[DJ D one]

Evolution is the keyword here...doesn't seem to happen though...
More awards...

D1

[Spectrum]

http://www.ableton.com/_common/downloads/movies/live_6_for_djs.mov

[edit: Sorry, ain't gonna embed here, so click the link...]

http://www.ableton.com/_common/downloads/movies/live_6_for_djs.mov

So with that in mind, I can BPM-match and mix Beatport tracks in Pro Tools, is Pro Tools "DJ" software?

:stroke:

[DJ D one]

Ableton is a powerfull program, but not very intuitive if you are a fist time user, plus the whole concept of wrapping...thus if you want something simplier, use virtual dj or traktor, deckadance...honestly

Sometimes stuff that where not particularly design for a purpose, can still be used and even might evolve to be...but why bother unless production interest you, simplify your life...

What does it matter anyway...

D1

[blahblahblah]

Ableton is a powerfull program, but not very intuitive if you are a fist time user, plus the whole concept of wrapping...thus if you want something simplier, use virtual dj or traktor, deckadance...honestly

Sometimes stuff that where not particularly design for a purpose, can still be used and even might evolve to be...but why bother unless production interest you, simplify your life...

What does it matter anyway...

D1

The concept of Warping .. is quite similar to Traktor .. but yeah your right ! many hours of googling and forum reading to figure Ableton's warping out !!

even though we have been arguing..... quite constructively I might add ! not like we are swearing at each other yet !!! hahah I did say .. Ableton aint the easiest for someone unfamiliar with mixing etc ... hence why I recommended Virtual DJ .. which I reckon is probably the easiest straight off the bat. Traktor obviously is a little better .. but it's probably the next step .. dont know you could probably start on traktor aswell.

The great thing about Virtual DJ is .. it puts you on software based CDJ's basically.

Pioneer offer their DJ software .. but it looked pretty lame compared to Traktor or Virtual DJ.

[blahblahblah]

http://www.ableton.com/_common/downloads/movies/live_6_for_djs.mov

[edit: Sorry, ain't gonna embed here, so click the link...]

http://www.ableton.com/_common/downloads/movies/live_6_for_djs.mov

So with that in mind, I can BPM-match and mix Beatport tracks in Pro Tools, is Pro Tools "DJ" software?

:stroke:

haha like stoking the fire ;) .. while your at it ..

Mobile phones ? can I DJ with Mobile phones .. I think I can.

I can DJ with 2 Ipods ;)

Hell .. I once loaded up 2 myspace pages .. and the vocal from one page acted as an acapella to the other page !!! .. Can you DJ with 2x Myspace pages ? :stroke:

I know we werent arguing whether you could DJ or not with Ableton .. but just to take this Digital DJ thread abit further ! the above are slowly becoming more popular ! .. whos job is it to warn newbies about Apples Ipod Mixing console ? or is this a good thing ? I personally think it's a laugh ..

[Blink Me]

Wow, this thread has gone ridiculously out of hand without supervision. Does it really matter if Abelton was "meant" for DJ'ing? The bottom like in that you can use it for that purpose, people do, so let them be, period. Fuck.
Anyway, BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION!
Which of these 3?
(a) M-Audio X-Session Pro USB MIDI DJ Mixer Controller (http://www.storedj.com.au/products/product.php?id=1371)
(b) Numark Total Control USB DJ Interface (http://www.storedj.com.au/products/product.php?id=1466)
(c) Vestax VCI-100 USB controller (http://www.storedj.com.au/products/product.php?id=1383)
Of course, the more expensive the better, but I just want to know is spending more money really worth it?
P.s. I'm not into production.
P.p.s. Scratching is cool, but at the moment I'm using Ableton Live 6 to DJ (:-0 ) and I like it. Once I master (or get reasonably good) Ableton I'll move on to other programs.
P.p.p.s. Let's stick to the topic shall we?

[DJ Fusion]

Yeah, I don't get it. You want a platter control for a program that doesn't use a platter based display or interface. I'd help if I wasn't so dj confusioned atm.

[Blink Me]

Yeah, I don't get it. You want a platter control for a program that doesn't use a platter based display or interface. I'd help if I wasn't so dj confusioned atm.
I don't need platter control currently, but I don't want to buy a piece of equipment that only meets my requirements. I want it to exceed them, so that in the future, when I change things up, I still have options open without having to spend more money. Have I un-confuzzled you yet?

[blahblahblah]

As much as I've been involved in the Ableton Argument I've also explained to you what you should be looking at.

To control Ableton .. I use an Xsession UC-17 although im not sure if they are still made or not .. but do a google and have a look.

The Xsession Pro is good .. but will really only do EQ .. and Volume faders. You want as many Knobs as possible with Ableton ..

Behringer make a cheap one called BCF2000 .. dont confuse it with the BCD2000 .. the BCF & BCR models are more knobs & Sliders .. the BCD is their platter controlled device.

I recommend a pad device or some sort .. I have a M-Audio Trigger Finger .. it has the 16 pads .. I've heard some people say bad things about the Engima software which is used to edit the midi settings .. but I've never had a problem on OSX. The Trigger finger is cool cause it has knobs for controlling effects eq's whatever .. and pads for triggering loops .. beats .. acapella's .. samples they are totally programmable .. I have a template by the phat conductor .. and the pads are used to scroll around the screen and select clips etc .. so you dont ever have to touch Ableton via your mouse or keyboard.

I would probably go the Xsession Pro .. this will get you started on Ableton with basic 4 Audio channel mixing.. as you get more into it .. you want more knobs for other stuff like effects .. sends .. delays .. beatrepeats .. dummy clips etc.

There are so many combinations of controllers .. and no company yet seems to have made the perfect Ableton controller .. everyone seems to have a different set of needs.

I reckon the Xsession Pro combined with a set of knobs would be good.

Another thing to look at is something like the Novation products .. the Novation Remote 25SL is another awesome controller .. it has knobs .. sliders and keyboard keys for triggering like a pad would do !

oh yeah and if you can find one .. the Maudio UC-33 is good .. although the Xsession Pro seems to be the replacement for these products .. but the UC-33 had like 8 sliders ... if you feel you need to mix more then 4 channels .. or you could setup 3 channels the rest could control effects.

I hope i've provided some info ! .. sorry for arguing in ya thread mate ;)