Starting from scratch: a new PC but what do I need?

[dr_lingsgey]

OK, very soon I am going to be putting together a PC for myself. All of the components will be bought at wholesale price as my friend has a sales license. I am looking at spending a max of $2000. What I need is a machine that will adequately run Cubase 5 or perhaps SX.

I need to know what to purchase in terms of:
a) soundcard
b) CPU
c) RAM
d) motherboard
e) hard disk

This doesn't need to be the top of the range for the sake of it being the top of the range. All I need is a machine that is quick but good value.

Cheers in advance.

[Sean]

a) a good one. dont be scared to spend a lot. but that said u dont have much to spend to start with. try and hook up a Turtle Beach - Santa Cruz. should only be like 180. does recording and output and midi well. if u can afford it get an maudio audiophile 2496.

b) ah im no expert here but sound stuff is more hdd/ram/bus intensive then cpu intensive. that said AMD xp chips do seem to rock quite hard, and in another thread in here the boys explain why :) im using an 18 month old thunderbird and its proving to be more then adequate.

c) lots. as much as you can afford. sdram will do the job but ddram will be a lot quicker, but u have to figure out whether u want to splurge for the faster ram or more of the slower stuff. also dependant on ur motherboard.

d) dependant on your cpu and ram, get one with the fastest bus you can :)

e) again, fast is essential a 7200 rpm on a nice ata bus will do a good job, i doubt you'll have the cash to spring for scsi, so stick to the faastest ide u can.

theres my simpleton help. sorry i cant go into much detail. im just passing on what little info i know. from my POV; A, C and E are the most important things to focus on :)

[dr_lingsgey]

Cheers.

[SPOKEYDOKEY]

patience.....lots of it

[dr_lingsgey]

I need some names here. Actual names of a good motherboard, etc.

[djneo]

a) Don't get anything that says soundblaster on it. Get something designed for professional audio, not gaming. I've been recommended to buy RME, MOTU, MIDIMAN, or M-AUDIO as good brands...

b) as fast as possible, AMD chips are cheaper, leaving more $$$ for a) c) and e)

c) lots of DDR ram, as much as you can afford, look at half a gig minimum.

d) any one that is equipped to take DDR ram

e) Hard disk, should be 7200rpm or higher, and it's best to have a seperate hdd strictly for audio... ie, don't have any programs on it, or allow non audio programs to access it, do all your aduio editing on it... and back it up religiously, it's very painful to lose songs... if you can afford two HHD's and a RAID controller or SCSI, do it, heaps heaps faster...

[Hydra]

Terratec are pretty good, EWS24/96, same specs and quality as M-audio but cheaper, Network Music on the GCoast has them for $350 at the moment 1800 801 332.

Personal favourite is the aardvark range...Direct pro 24/96 4x 'balanced' in/out, midi i/o, headphone socket, digital, very cool virtual mixer.

Or RME if your going for straightout 'balls'

[phunkdust]

Some of you missed the $2000 budget here!

Pentium 3 1000/Celeron 1000
MB - Asus or Intel
256 MB pc133 RAM
60 GB HDD (7200rpm, Quantum, WD, IBM are good brands)
Terratec EWS24/96 Sound

If you shop around you should be able to find "Upgrade Kits" where they sell you a motherboard with a good cpu and some ram for like $400... Bung this in a case with a hard drive $200 and add the Terratec sound card $350, install windows (98se or 2000)

all you need to do after that is add a screen (get a 17 inch or better if you can) and a keyboard and mouse... and probably some headphones or cheap monitor speakers...

and probably cubase SX (unless you're intending to pir8 it)

no reason why you shouldnt be able to do it all for under $2000

[kaossproject]

Right $2000

Motherboard:
Aopen AK77-333 266MHz SocketA 333DDRAM KT333 ATA133 USB 2.0 Audio $262.00
excellent memory bandwidth and HDD driver + Norton Antivirus.

Video:
Asus V7100Pro-TV 32Mb AGP 4x GeForce2 MX400 $220.00

CPU:
AMD Duron 1.0Ghz $149.00 (cheaper and much faster than Celeron)

RAM:
1 x Kingston 256MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM Lifetime Warranty $172.00

Hard Disk:
Maxtor Viper ATA133 20.0Gb 7200rpm with 2mb buffer $174.00

Soundcard:
This is a personal preference so you may want to hunt around. The Terratec is a good one to start with (as "Phunkdust "mentioned)

On top of this you will have to get case (with 300W power supply), a 17" Monitor, mouse (go logitech optical), a keyboard (go logitech cordless) and CD-RW with buffer under-run protection (don't go for cheap model Sony is good - also, I have used a "Creative CD-RW" for over a year now and haven't had one bad burn).

I can supply ideas and prices for these parts if you like, or, I can build it for you for less than $2000.00. If this is your first computer you are building, you will have some headaches so BE PATIENT!!

PM me if you would like to talk more........

[mungo]

for $2000 you can go very nice, if you can get to canberra i can give you a hand doin this if you want. I have done plenty of music PC's and they can be tricky but here is the basic mix.

AMD XP1800+ $230
OR intel 1.7Ghz P4 celeron $200
ASUS motherboard with raid and ddr $300
OR for intel - intel 845i with raid and ddr $350

1Gb of DDR ram (266mhz) $300
2x80 Gb 7200Rpm hard disk (seagate) $400
generic case $70
generic video card $70 (probably geforce 2 MX 400 64Mb)
CDRW nothing fancy here $120
17in monitor $120 (acer 77c)
microsoft optical mouse $40
microsoft keyboard $20

total $1660 to $1690

that leaves you heaps of money to go for a great sound card and or the following options

19in monitor +$150
2nd 17in and video card +$200
DVD drive +$100
P4 1.8 +$300

no matter whic processor you go for the system is about the same in price but for music i personally recommend the intel system.

[Sean]

if you get the terratec remember to leave some money left over to get a midi interface :)

[dr_lingsgey]

Thanks heaps all.

mungo, you mentioned using 2 monitors. How useful is this? Is it better to go say a single 19 or 21 inch screen or to get two x 17 inch? I suppose this is personal opinion eh?

I have an old beefy denon amp, Sony YST-SW320 sub and a pair of boston acoustic fronts to monitor the sounds so I won't need to be spending anything on this front.

Running two 80 gig hard disks in RAID sounds nice but will I need this much storage space?

Great work folks.

[Sean]

definitley go the twin monitors!!!! i highly reccomend it. went from using 2 19" flat screens at work (after hrs ;)) to my single 17 and its pityful and annoying having such a small screen.

and you'll be amazed how quickly 80gb fills up! you could go a smaller disk for your primary drive (mines a 40 and doing fine) but a large audio drive is a must.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by Sean
if you get the terratec remember to leave some money left over to get a midi interface :)

Actually all the Terratec models have built in MIDI, the EWX 24/96 is just joystick but a converter is only about $30 (sorry sean if thats what you meant)

[Sean]

well i could say i meant that, but u know i was lieing. i thought that it didnt have one at all. sorry my bad.

[mungo]

2x80Gb on raid is not only for the huge space but also the increased bandwidth and reduced latency (the two biggest factors in a recording pc). Also I prefer twin 17in monitors and so do my mates mostly because none of us can afford a 21in. The twin 17in is simply a cost saver and you learn to love it anyway.

[kaossproject]

MUNGO ??

where did you get your prices from??? they seem awfully cheap??

2 x 80.0Gb HDD for $400 ??
GeForce 2 MX400 for $70 ??
19" Monitor $120 ??

Are they "trade" prices or second hand??

I wish I could get prices like that................

Anyway, wouldn't it be cheaper to get one good Video card if you want to run 2 Monitors?? Matrox make a good "Twin View" card that eliminates the need to use 2 PCI slots. Oh.....and don't use Celeron for music computers use only P3/P4 or AMD.

[kaossproject]

I might also add......just to clarify my POV on computers for music

My view is from the Keep It Simple approach...especially at the start of your music making career. If you are like me and don't work full time coz u want to make music, money is hard to accumulate and is spent wisely.

The system that I mentioned above will give you the ability to run all the current applications very well with reliability. Sure its not the best but it will do and I can support this coz I use a similar system. Also, music is about your connection to the deeper parts of our psyche more than the quality or quantity of your hardware. (hardware/technology "collection" is an unfortunate side affect of our materialistic society).

So to sum up I like to get "best bang for my bucks" and tend to focus more on the process of music production coz that is a head f.uck in its self.....:lol:

[phunkdust]

kaoss, whats wrong with the celeron? it has the same basic core as the P3, just with a different FSB and cache. My brother runs Cubase SX on a Celeron 866 with 384mb ram... it's got bags of power...

[kaossproject]

Under the stress of Multi-media applications the FSB and Cache can hold up performance AND when compared to the AMD equivalent (Duron) on a cost/performance perspective the Celeron is behind the 8-ball. It is wiser to go the P3 or AMD and not have to worry about updating later.

I am not AMD bashing here just highlighting the cost/performance angle.

Since you have raised the point though, what you said about your Brother's system also supports my keep it simple approach. Most applications don't stress a system that much and therefore there is no need to build a balls-and-all system if you are 1. Just starting out 2. work in a "home studio environment" 3. If you don't run multiple applications and 4. Don't play games in your spare time :lol:

Perhaps a better way to explain this is when using graphical intensive applications. These type apps stress the CPU and various band-width specs in your system. If all other components are good but the CPU only runs on a small FSB then there is a bottle-neck which can hinder performance and cause frustrating hold-ups/crashes (especially with Windows). Sure perhaps time is of no importance when running complex apps so each to their own?? But sometimes it can get frustrating when waiting for things to happen.

Just trying to help....?

[Hardicus]

Just curious about whether there is any real difference musicwise between AMD chips and Intel chips. I heard that Pentium 4 chips have a tendency to lock up when put under lots of real time recording strain (with the exception of the 2.0+ GHz chips). Is this true?

[phunkdust]

kaoss, dr_lingsgey is looking for "a machine that is quick but good value." as far as I can tell, the Celeron (especially the 1GHz+ models) are cheap and have plenty of power.

You have to consider some of the aggressive calculations that take place in the VST environment. While the Celeron's BUS transfer is slower than a P3, this only comes into play if you're maxxing out your hard drive recording/playing 24bit audio tracks - but surely in this case, the IDE interface is bottlenecked anyway, and most IDE hard drives haven't got a fast enough transfer rate anyway to be slowed down by the Celeron BUS, unless you happen to be running something like a RAID3 interface, in which case you'd have the money to run a P4 anyway.

With these aggressive calculations, consider the sheer speed of the Celeron (say, the 1.2 GHz model) working hand-in-hand with it's processor cache, which is ALSO running at 1.2GHz, then you come to realise why the Celeron has so much power for so little money.

Aside from that, the Celeron has the added advantage of running very cool, it doesnt require the bigger cooling systems of the P3/P4/Athlon, thus it runs quiet, perfect for a studio application.

To answer Hardicus' question... Athlon vs P4, pretty similar in performance, they each have their good points and bad points... the Athlon is a little cheaper.

I haven't heard anything of P4's locking up under MM application stress, all P4-478 processors have the same core, they shouldn't behave any differently. The problem you're describing points towards something like a IDE bottleneck...

[mungo]

All the prices I quoted were prices for "new" equipment with full maufacturers warranty except for the monitors which I pickup at the local auctions but they have warrantys too so it doesnt really matter. btw that 1.8 P4 is now +$300 for a P4 2.26 (533Mhz fsb)

The celeron in the system is a P4 based on so at a fsb of 400Mhz has a higher bandwidth than the AMD chips (all of them). Personally I prefer a P3 on a intel 820 with ECC rdram but that isnt in your budget.

I was running a celeron 400Mhz system for 2 years and never had any problem sequencing with audio channels (no soft FX tho) but now I have my pants new system that just flys.

If any of you want stuff at these prices then give us a email and we can organize it.