Is this illegal?

[johnjay]

If i download an mp3 off zshare but the only reason why I am doing it is to preview the record I want to buy off discogs and after I have listened to it I delete it?

[trenthalliday]

you have downloaded an illegal copy of something so I guessing its illegal....just steer clear, go to a record store and listen to it.....its a bit like driving thrugh a red light, but then reversing behind the line, if you catch my drift

[blky]

my advice go and try previewing it off a legit download site like beatport or trackitdown if you want legal previewing downloads

[ferretrock]

Of course it's illegal - whether it's immoral is a different story

[johnjay]

im talking about records from the 70s and 60s

obviously they are not on beatport

presing play on zshare and youtube would have to be different story though,

[Spectrum]

^^^ Why? Most music on YouTube is illegally hosted.

[JKWITS]

I guess this is completely flawed but if you stream it but don't download it in my mind it doesn't seem so bad but really I guess its exactly the same thing interms of listening to music that someone has provided without permission.

On the same hand I think its strange you can share mixes without the same problems as if you just shared a single track but I'm sure this has been discussed a heap already.

[miutante]

It's not illegal if you don't get caught. Everything is illegal these days dude, just be ethical.

[maaaa]

^ word.

if you like a song, buy it! :D

[holtless]

why would i pay money for a tune when i can get it for free off torrents?

[miutante]

Because music that's well recorded and sounds nice takes time, effort and money to produce? Just a thought.

[KuRuPTeD]

whole lot of fail in here :/

[silvaside]

if it's trance then yes, it's illegal and you should delete it.

[Mad Rooster]

Why the fuck can't you tightarses scrounge up $2 - $3 to pay for a track??? I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I stole your shit... but you doing it is OK?

[Spicy]

dude, it's illegal so why are you everyone about it?! :lol:

[holtless]

Why the fuck can't you tightarses scrounge up $2 - $3 to pay for a track??? I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I stole your shit... but you doing it is OK?

you didn't even read the thread did you? you just assumed it was someone stealing music and jumped on the bandwagon of hate.

hate to break it to you sunshine, but "stealing" music isn't just black and white, especially in this case, it's not that simple.

[trenthalliday]

Its not just me is it?? That ^ makes no sense.....EDIT: not your post Holt, one above....

Its illegal, just because you delete it doesnt make it not illegal, the illegal part is downloading it, the fact you delete it afterwards is nul and void after you have already broken the law. As I said before with the red light....cant try and kill someone, then administer first aid and it be alright...

[Mad Rooster]

you didn't even read the thread did you? you just assumed it was someone stealing music and jumped on the bandwagon of hate.

hate to break it to you sunshine, but "stealing" music isn't just black and white, especially in this case, it's not that simple.

Not jumping on the bandwagon at all. Read the thread. What do Hotless and maaa have to say????

[holtless]

illegal, yeah, you're absolutely right, it is.

it's also ethical and there's nothing wrong with what he's asking to do. imo.

but then again, that's only because i put myself in the artists shoes. if someone wanted a tune of mine (no, i don't produce, i'm speaking theoretically) on vinyl, but wanted to make sure it was the right tune by downloading an (admittedly illegal) copy before hand, i wouldn't care; the buyer obviously cares about the music because he's going to be buying the tune on vinyl.

[trenthalliday]

But you cant take best intentions to the bank.....there are so many variables that mean even after downloading he doesnt buy the vinyl.....

[RudeTed]

Limewire is the only place i get my music. Jokes. If i cant find it on limewire then ill buy it

[trenthalliday]

I just beat up DJ's and steal their CD wallets and Record bags.

[holtless]

i just shot tiesto and took everything he owned.

or, at least, that's what some people would have you believe when you download music.

[legal-affairs]

It is illegal because it is the copying of the work that is illegal and everything that happens after the act of copying is relevant only to the gravity of the breach of the law, not whether or not there has been a breach. But are you likely to be prosecuted? Most unlikely.

[johnjay]

I am looking to buy records off discogs that are selling for $40 each, so previewing them to see if its the right thing wouldnt be unreasonable would it

ok so forget the downloading off zshare onto my desktop, I wil not do that because its illegal. Because the last thing I need is to be locked up with axe murderes and when they ask what you in here for I say "downloaded an mp3 illegally" So I made sure I checked before doing it

But is streaming a tune illegal? I do not have the actual tune on my hardrive I jsut stream it then delete my temporary inbox

If it is ilegal then doesnt that mean everyone using youtube to watch old clips are breaking the law

Anyway youtube is great for watching old diso classics and hunting them down on wax, even presing play on zshare is ok, just when you actually download the file then you would be regarded as possessing it which in my opinon is what makes the difference

[holtless]

I just beat up DJ's and steal their CD wallets and Record bags.

i'm a man of peace. you can just take my tunes man.

they're all stolen though. limewire, kazaa, torrents. srsly man, they're the way to go.

accepting of stolen property man. you're in deep shit now.

[Mad Rooster]

HOtless, I agree that downloading music to see what it is like is and then deleting it is morally OK, and I don't have a problem with it. No one is missing out on a dollar, in fact, some might even gain from it.

I bought about 10 mix cds from bali recently. Pirated of course. Never would've bought them if they weren't $1 each. Listened to them maybe once or twice each. Found maybe 10 tracks I really wanted and then bought them from iTunes or Beatport. 10 tunes that I never would've bought. No one lost here so I don't have a problem with it.

But I do have a problem with people who have cd collections built entirely from limewire, zshare etc etc.

TO be honest, I don't give a fuck about the legalities of it all. Only interested in the morals and ethics. Speeding is illegal, taking drugs is illegal, jay walking is illegal - Give a fuck?!?!?!

[johnjay]

yes but once you do that its over, but with this its on file and you never know when it could come back to haunt you, thats why I am checking before I do it.

So does that mean if I do a mix I cant upload it on to zshare for people to download it? Because then pppl are getting artists tracks for fre?

[trenthalliday]

Speeding is illegal, taking drugs is illegal, jay walking is illegal - Give a fuck?!?!?!

I do neither because I am the centre of morality, worship me.

[RudeTed]

Look, the way i see it is you should help your fellow brothers where you can, them being musicions...if you are djing in your bedroom as a hobby then its understandable to download a few free tracks. But you should try and give back where possible.

If you are earning money from DJing...you should be buying all of your music.

[anders8b]

holtless are you just taking the piss? If so, kudos on your commitment!

[phresh]

if a legit preview from an online store isnt long enough then if you can find another online store with the same track & you'll usually find a preview of a different part of the track.

disagree with rudeted, its not ok & you're a wanker.

[anders8b]

oh btw go to www.djdownload.com if you want to preview the entire track. They have a cool player!

[KuRuPTeD]

if the original statement is true, the track in question is from the 70's so no it is not able to be pre-viewed on the internet.

my suggestion is to just hit up 2nd hand vinyl shops you'll probably pick it up for like 2 bux.

then if it sux stash it away and it may one prove useful for a sample or two.

[RudeTed]

Thanks Phresh, cos youve obviously never illegally downloaded a track...

[RudeTed]

Ps. I do earn money from djing and i do buy ALL of my tunes..except for the stuff that doesnt have labels yet and cant be bought...aka some of the stuff from palms out sounds. I find it hard to believe that phresh hasnt stolen a track when you started out djing

[holtless]

holtless are you just taking the piss? If so, kudos on your commitment!

:lol:

semi-taking the piss, yeah.

i support paying for my music if it's music made by smaller, independant producers/bands, and if i want to mix it. i solely mix vinyl.

but frankly, i couldn't give a fuck if someone has a whole collection of illegally downloaded music, depending on what music it is. e.g., big name artists that have been signed to major labels for years. they're all fucking loaded alraedy, and the record labels they're signed to have been overcharging consumers for years.

i support this whole new movement of always buying your music and supporting artists, but i don't like the fact that it's being pushed by major record labels who've been anally raping consumers for years and now they're scared that they won't be able to anymore. they're fighting for the right thing for the wrong reasons.

but hey, that's solely my opinion.

i have had a good afternoon of taking the piss though :)

[RudeTed]

The thing that shits me the most is that iTunes is the best place to find music from every genre. I like to buy older tracks too, and its generally a mission to find these tracks. iTunes is so convenient. But they shit me to tears that you cant transfer it to mp3. Such dickheads. I totally disagree with the whole cross formatting law. I use ableton and unless theres some other magical way of doing it, i have to burn the itunes onto cd then rip them off the cd to play in ableton.

[Mad Rooster]

[QUOTE=holtless]:lol:

big name artists that have been signed to major labels for years. they're all fucking loaded alraedy, and the record labels they're signed to have been overcharging consumers for years.
QUOTE]

So becasue they are good at what they do, and happened to make good coin out of it, it's ok to steal from them?

Some poor dude from Africa probably thinks you're loaded too...

[holtless]

[QUOTE=holtless]Some poor dude from Africa probably thinks you're loaded too...

think what you like dude, that's a completely invalid comparison. said african dude isn't buying my product off me at a price that, realistically, is high way robbery. also, it's an unfair comparison again because there's no middleman there, whereas in the music business, we have a big name record labels. i frankly couldn't give a flying fuck if EMI don't get my twenty nine dollars for the new foo fighters CD, but when the foo fighters tour, i'll go buy a ninety dollar ticket and watch them. probably with the money i saved on not giving corporate record labels what they want.

i'm not saying it's ok to steal from major record labels; i'm just saying that the fact that it's not legal isn't going to stop me.

anyway, wouldn't most of those artists make a large degree of their money from live performances and touring, rather than CD sales?

again, this is my opinion; i'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just how i feel.

[Spicy]

Look, the way i see it is you should help your fellow brothers where you can, them being musicions...if you are djing in your bedroom as a hobby then its understandable to download a few free tracks. But you should try and give back where possible.

If you are earning money from DJing...you should be buying all of your music.that's pretty much the smartest way to look at it. if you earn cash from it, you should support those who support you. pretty straight forward!

[anders8b]

holtless at least you have gone through a thought process about this and made a decision... The people who give me the shits are the ones who don't even see the moral dilemma in the first place! They are a'plenty!

[balkz]

Just out of curiosity, how can someone prove you downloaded a track illegally? Is there some sort of shit embedded into a track purchased from beatport or something?

I mean if i bought a track off beatport, and burnt my friend a copy, how is anyone able to prove he didnt buy the track?

Not that i do any of this, but just find it hard how anyone can be done for "illegally" downloading mp3s. Just a thought :s

[phresh]

Thanks Phresh, cos youve obviously never illegally downloaded a track...

no worries :slap:

oh & not only is anders8b correct, their previews are of a very high quality too if memory serves me. :)

[maaaa]

i always got the gist that if you're playing at a professional level and in clubs etc, then its a must to buy tracks.

for home its toned down a bit in that it's your own fucking business but then again youll get thoughts from either side of the spectrum. (the argument will always be there)

you've sorta got to way it all up ie. supporting the industry, what you can afford, what bests suits you.. no one else can decide that for you :thumb:

[djbricksta]

lol who cares, download it, and then buy it, no one will come after you

[Bassbunker]

Some poor dude from Africa probably thinks you're loaded too...

Which is why he needs your assistance in transferring some money out of his country. If you could first forward him $100.....

[CHOPPY_INDAHOUSE]

Limewire is the only place i get my music. Jokes. If i cant find it on limewire then ill buy it


I hope im there to shake my head in shame ,when you get orditied.

[mcdoofus]

God this thread is full of wank. Yes it is illegal. No you won't get in trouble unless you download thousands of tracks, or you somehow get caught by the copyright police playing it in a club.

I believe its moral to download a track to check it out. I've downloaded quite a few tracks to evaluate them this way. Most of them I've bought straight away, but some I've decided I didn't really like the track, so I don't buy it, and delete it off my HD anyway because I didn't really like the track. To all those saying that you should just look the song up on djdownload - thats a useless idea, because eventually djdownload isn't going to have the song you want, and the shitty sample on Beatport cuts out just before the breakdown that you want to hear in order to decide whether the track is worth buying.

Just be honest to yourself and your fellow musicians. Download the track to evaluate it - if you like it, buy it.

[hoppuspears]

Worst Thread Ever

[kloseline]

i feel the issue, some of the mp3 shop online show you onl 30 seconds of the music, if youre unlucky you hit th breakdown or whatever. bigup for djdownload who have the best song preview of all of them !

also, i am not sure how it is in australia but the law in germany allows you to use a Computer Software for 24 hours even if you dont own it, then you have to delete it. However i have no clue how this applies to Australia or Music....Maybe someone heard of it...

[hoppuspears]

Farking hell. Yes its illegal. Who cares NO ONE. Not even the artist. Download the song go hey wicked tune go and buy it delete the illegal version and you have the song. Wow that was so hard. No one will care. No one would even know if you didn't make this stupid fucking thread. Friggin fbi dont bust into your house for having 1 pirated song on your computer for 10 minutes.

[legal-affairs]

Just out of curiosity, how can someone prove you downloaded a track illegally? Is there some sort of shit embedded into a track purchased from beatport or something?

I mean if i bought a track off beatport, and burnt my friend a copy, how is anyone able to prove he didnt buy the track?

Not that i do any of this, but just find it hard how anyone can be done for "illegally" downloading mp3s. Just a thought :s
Err, because there would be no record of him having paid Beatport any money for it, perhaps? If you are making money from DJing then you'd be keeping the receipts for all the music you'd bought and it wouldn't be that difficult.

johnjay, if the process of streaming is creating a temporary file, then that of itself would be an infringing copy - I'm not au fait with the tech side of streaming but although it is similar to broadcast radio in a lot of respects, my understanduing is that you do create, no matter how temporarily, a copy of the work. However, that will not be an infringing copy if the source of the stream is licensed - eg, inthemix which pays fees to APRA for a license to stream the mixes whuich it hosts.

[balkz]

I know what u mean legal-affairs but i mean to really be done, it would have to be an extreme though wouldnt it? I mean if some 'copyright cops' come into a club doing random checks like they said they were, and they ask the dj if they bought the music, they would have to what...log into his beatport account/whatever other sites, and individually match up tracks in his cd wallet to make sure all of them have been paid?

[djbricksta]

what track were you after anyway? I want to limewire it

[trenthalliday]

jumping on the shit thread bandwaggon.....












shit thread






EDIT: but seriously....were you asking if what you were doing was theoreticaly illegal, or were you just asking to see if anyone else does it so you dont feel bad for something you have been doing for the last year or two?

[Garrety]

See my sig for a good article on this topic...

[johnjay]

EDIT: but seriously....were you asking if what you were doing was theoreticaly illegal, or were you just asking to see if anyone else does it so you dont feel bad for something you have been doing for the last year or two?[/QUOTE]


No i asked before I did it

I however do use youtube to preview the boogie records to see if they are what I want, its great, you would be suprised how much people have uploaded on to youtube. I might start uploading my records and putting them up on youtube instead of continuing my discogs list AGAIN if it is legal, which none of you smartasses have seemed to give a definte answer in regards to it

peace out sukers

[mcdoofus]

Ahhh... I don't think uploading copyrighted material to Youtube is legal.

[legal-affairs]

I know what u mean legal-affairs but i mean to really be done, it would have to be an extreme though wouldnt it? I mean if some 'copyright cops' come into a club doing random checks like they said they were, and they ask the dj if they bought the music, they would have to what...log into his beatport account/whatever other sites, and individually match up tracks in his cd wallet to make sure all of them have been paid?
It's only a matter of time before MIPI gets someone doing that, but they look for the easy targets. There will be someone out there playing gigs who is bragging about how he's never paid for any of his music, or who gets dobbed in because she takes a gig from another DJ by undercutting on price because she's not paying for any of her music. It plainly isn't going to be cost effective to audit the CD wallet of every DJ; MIPI will be looking for the low-hanging fruit. They'll find an easy target and spend a lot of money making a public example of that easy target - that's much more cost effective than trying to track down every last MP3.

[legal-affairs]

I however do use youtube to preview the boogie records to see if they are what I want, its great, you would be suprised how much people have uploaded on to youtube. I might start uploading my records and putting them up on youtube instead of continuing my discogs list AGAIN if it is legal, which none of you smartasses have seemed to give a definte answer in regards to it
No, uploading your records to YouTube involves making a copy of both the musical work and the sound recording, so without a licence it is illegal. However, prospect of copyright holder(s) coming after you as opposed to simply asking YouTube to take them down, negligible.

[johnjay]

but if you have the original record you can keep put a copy of it on cd for yourself as long as you own it its not illegal then. So isnt putting on youtube the same? Yes other people can listen to it but they are the ones breaking the law not me, coz i own the original

[johnjay]

what track were you after anyway? I want to limewire it
lol

[djbricksta]

they will go after youtube soon, they did for film they will for audio once its big enough

and seriously whats the track?!?!
if its caused this much fuss it must be good or really shit

[hoppuspears]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/dude_sweet99/comicbookguy-worst-thread-ever.jpg

[johnjay]

dude its got nothing to do with the track anymore

just convo in regards to the topic

[holtless]

Worst Thread Ever

you're the worst thread ever.

[legal-affairs]

but if you have the original record you can keep put a copy of it on cd for yourself as long as you own it its not illegal then. So isnt putting on youtube the same? Yes other people can listen to it but they are the ones breaking the law not me, coz i own the original
You can only lawfully format shift for private or domestic use, and if your format shifted copy is used for the purpose of causing the sound recorduing to be heard in publc or broadcast, it becomes an infringing copy again.

[Tokyo Joe]

2 cents..

If you were to dl a track illegally to preview it, thats really supporting the pirates out there imo, thats how P2P works. I guarantee that there's more people keeping the track than previewing and deleting it.

But this is the beauty of free choice. You do what you want. BUT that doesn't mean there won't be consequences, for yourself or for others.



Disclaimer: Guarantee will not be honoured

[holtless]

music piracy is a victimless crime.

[johnjay]

You can only lawfully format shift for private or domestic use, and if your format shifted copy is used for the purpose of causing the sound recorduing to be heard in publc or broadcast, it becomes an infringing copy again.
again good point

but isnt that the same as guys who buy vinyl rip it to cd and go out and dj with the cd instead of the actual record

[anders8b]

music piracy is a victimless crime.

Your a wanker

[holtless]

no you are.

[legal-affairs]

again good point

but isnt that the same as guys who buy vinyl rip it to cd and go out and dj with the cd instead of the actual record
Yes, which is also, on its face, illegal.

[anders8b]

ouch

[rhythmboy]

TO be honest, I don't give a fuck about the legalities of it all. Only interested in the morals and ethics. Speeding is illegal, taking drugs is illegal, jay walking is illegal - Give a fuck?!?!?!

I drive on a freeway every day to work and I really give a fuck about speeding. Speeding drivers are the biggest fucktards on the planet and deserve everything coming to em. Watching some bogan blow a tire at 140k's and nearly kill a passing motorist, or just last week 10 ambulances and a helicopter on the side of the road after a fucktard speeder piles into a bus... yeah awesomely moral and ethical :rainman:

Anyways back on topic, this thread is hilarious really. Some here have the made the law abundantly clear - for those who don't like it - DEAL WITH IT OR GO BLOW YOURSELF. Just because the law doesn't fit with your personal agenda or bahaviours or sense of 'ethics' doesn't mean the law should be ignored and flaunted. Laws are made for a reason - in this case to protect the rights and income of the original creators of the music.

Even if a creator feels ok about giving away shit for free and putting it in the public domain, this does not negate their right to protection. It's the creator's decision to make, not the consumer's. If DJ's created more original content and then tried to earn a living off that they might change their attitude - but few do, they just take the work of others and play it back.

If you rip music off illegally and think it's ok, or a 'victimless crime' then just shut up about it. Spewing your rhetoric on a forum just makes you look like a knob and attracts attention to yourself.

[holtless]

Just because the law doesn't fit with your personal agenda or bahaviours or sense of 'ethics' doesn't mean the law should be ignored and flaunted

yes it does.

[Tokyo Joe]

yes it does.

So by your reasoning, if someone thought it to be ethical, in their eyes, to kill your family, or someone close to you, thats it.. shit happens?

Or are you saying that because this crime doesn't involve voilence or even just because it doesn't affect a person that you can see, that it makes it alright?

Or are you just sitting back laughing while we all bite, cause that'd be pretty funny...

[anders8b]

yes it does.
Don't make me say it again :slap:

[RyanSeven]

sorry 2 highjack the thread but my question is if you have a crate on beatport full of tunes is there anyway of buying one of those tunes right away?

thanks in advance

[holtless]

Don't make me say it again :slap:

it's so easy though.

[anders8b]

it's so easy though.
I'll take my belt off... Don't think I won't! X(

[holtless]

are you coming on to me?