What is a record deal?

[House of God]

Hi guys,

Although im sure to a few of you this is a stupid question...im the king of stupid questions:)lol

After checking out Enigma Records from H.P.S's post...i decided to ask this question as its been weighing on my mind ever since i signed with an A&R company....

What exactly is a record deal?

I mean Enigma has given me the best insight yet as to what a Indie type label offers....BUT how do Record deals differ?

If i sign with say Enigma.....can all i hope for is some exposure and some free vinyl records???? and a bit of feedback.

What do they normally offer there artists (record companies overall)?

What do they expect from a new artist?
- Just to release basically whats on your demo...OR
- An exclusively made album for there label which can be helped by the money they give you.

Do they offer much money at all?

Obviously it seems the "Indie" labels dont offer money only exposure.......

Royalties....HOW MUCH?? do i get like 1c per record...or is it an equal share of the cost.....how much can i genuinely expect from an indie or middle to major label?

IF say i signed with Enigma (sorry im using them as my general one) and then Virgin Or Someone else Big time comes along and offers me loads of money and a contract.....CAN i leave Enigma (or any indie label)?

PLEASE these are all serious questions and desperate for answers:)

Cheers...Kirk.

[jayjay]

good questions. the record industry is fickle and i aint got the foggiest. eagerly awaiting replies :D

[phunkdust]

first things first - "Indie" refers to rock music - ie bands with guitars 8-)

Okay well - leaving one label and going to another - it all depends on the contract. Some labels will contract tracks from you on a track-by-track basis - ie they buy each track from you to put on a CD. They don't usually own the music, they just have exclusive rights to sell it.

This exclusive rights system is the problem. If you've signed up giving exclusive release rights to a label, then you cannot move to another label and let them release the same tracks.

Most of the small labels in Australia release on a per-album or per-track basis, meaning that once that release is done (the actual CD) you are pretty much free to release OTHER tracks on OTHER labels...

Other labels will work on a pure contract basis, where they own you and everything you make for a certain time period. Labels like this also tend to sweeten the deal with an advance payment

This "Advance Payment" is not really a payment at all. Its a loan. Say you get an advance of $10,000. You can spend that money on whatever you want, but mostly it has to go towards producing the album, etc (ie production/mastering/pressing costs) and you DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT pocket ANY MONEY AT ALL until this loan is paid off.

On terms of royalties, this is sorted out at the time of contracting yourself to a label. The general payment for most labels is 10% of the cover price. So if you sell one album at $29.95, you get $2.99 in your pocket.

Smaller labels, and labels that contract out one or two tracks for a compilation may have different payment terms. These may be lower or higher than the industry standard 10%. I wouldn't expect that you could find a label that would pay you more than 25% of the cover price however.

The smaller-scale option is distribution. This is where YOU are responsible for pressing/mastering/producing the CD, and from there you give all the CDs/Vinyls to the Distribution Label, and they send the CDs to record stores, and collect the monies from those record stores.

With a Distribution deal you usually end up with a LOT more money per unit sold, however YOU are doing all the work, and YOU have to come up with the $2000 or how much it will cost to produce a certain number of CDs... You generally don't get any promotion with a distribution deal, whereas labels will promote you.

My advice is to read your contract carefully, and be careful what you sign. Don't put yourself into a shit deal because you liked the idea of getting $25 grand before you even make any music for the label.

[djbc]

Originally posted by phunkdust
first things first - "Indie" refers to rock music - ie bands with guitars 8-)


well indie used to simply mean independent, but somewhere in the early nineties it was usurped by a whole genre (being the guitar/rock kinda thing). I think it was 'cause a heap of guitary bands on indie labels started doing really well. So now people assiciate the word with that style of music only... unfortunate really.... 'cause now we have to type the whole word independent :p

And yeah record deals vary form situation to situation.... Never sign anything if you don't fully understand what it all means & how it impacts your activities, or you may find yourself suddenly unable to do anything on your own terms.

Artslaw are a great resource for having your contracts checked... become a member... it helps you & it helps keep them going;)
cheers
bc

[driload]

you signed an A & R and you are asking about record deals?


please define a little better what you signed




my act is signed to Creative Vibes but among us we've released on Nine09, Central Station, Fuel, Sony, etc etc

i am only rather young you might say (or terribly old, you also might say) but i did my homework on contracts and the legals as soon as the first bit of $ was waved in front of me... bloody boring and hard and NONSENSICAL field of interest but its saved me before



read up on everything, believe 1% of what is told to you, and quite simply learn from your mistakes.

my advice for those getting into the music industry is to not go into the music industry


i love it though, but im a small small fish who is more engineer then artist in the long run but hey, my band sbeen getting pretty big promo and large festival so i'll play it out for now


biggest rule in the game though....

NOTHING is "standard procedure" or "standard contract"

read everything and dont be afraid to hire an (always expensive) music specialised legal professional


i could tell you stories to make you hair curl... bahahaha...

um... that were told to me... heh.... heh...


music industry... imagine Merchant of Venice where they actually take the pound of flesh...

[phunkdust]

if you can't afford a legal representative to examine the contract then just give me a buzz and i'll help you out. I can get it thoroughly checked out for you... 8-)

[House of God]

Ok A&R Contract isnt much really...but it means i dont have to send out demos and stuff like that...

Basically they have the contacts and stuff and i agree to let them use my music as promotion BUT i have no legal barriers...meaning i can still do whatever i want...it just covers them from copyright issues (say if my song was stolen or whatever)..

The guy who contacted me has already before launching gotten a deal for someone on with them...i DID however do background checks and research and stuff...and well they are as legitimate as i can expect.

also they were really good...but a few problems with australia post loosing my damn cd and bio and shit:( grrrrrr

so yeah basically they get me to the record label a&r and agents and stuff like that instead of me sending hundreds of cd's...also they can give me advice and tips and discounts (although my distance sorta excludes me:(.)

well i will wait till they officially launch and stuff before i give to much more away:)

Cheers...Kirk.

[phunkdust]

what your're describing there is a possibly exclusive per-track contract... they own broadcast rights to your track, and they can further sell your stuff off to distribution or record labels...

this is a pretty good solution, you mostly get to keep your music

i'd be looking closely at where the money goes however... companies can be feasting of your efforts with not a cent in sight for you...

oh, and there is nothing quite like registered post. it doesnt cost much extra but its excellent insurance against loss of goods.

[driload]

i dont like the sounds of that contract just because i can already do all that stuff you specify as their "services" and i like to be in full control of my material and all that entails

it might be the best option for you however... just giving my opinion.


one thing i recommend is checking out APRA and getting them to send you an information pack about membership, that should make a few things clearer to you.


if you are already an APRA member, disregard, but anyone who is reading this who makes music, plays gigs or gets radio time SHOULD be an APRA member or you are losing out on cash

[House of God]

Hmmm maybe i didnt describe it as well as i could have:(

Basically think Mp3.com.......then add to it the personal touch and limited people.....thats what you get.

Im currently there only Dance artist...so i know that when a dance label checks em out i am definately going to be heard...also they send out newsletters to the labels and have a meeting with them every month or so...

Its all very new and they are the ONLY people in australia doing this at the moment (remember i havnt disclossed everything)...


YOU ARE RIGHT tho....to a point....

YES you could mostly do all this yourself with alot of effort....

HOWEVER how many times have you met with Motown or BadBoy records? Not to mention heaps more label executives???

I doubt that as an average to above average identity you have the contacts to sit directly down with in a meeting a major label and have them listen?

RE Using my music: well they dont own any of it...they ONLY have my permission to play it...thats all nothing more.....they dont make anymony from it and neither do i...that is why they are ONLY an A&R company and not a label or anything......

Ok well ill update more soon...

cheers..kirk.

[driload]

sounds interesting i will give you that :)

let us know how it goes of course



as for the comment regarding basically "getting your foot in the door" thats cool if you want to

i guess the acts im in being already signed up and tied up sort of means im not really interested in taking on any new deals but WITHOUT A DOUBT there will be a time when i will be looking for something new.... i just tend to rely on existing contacts i guess...

which, i will give you.... you are doing through these a&r guys.... which makes what you are doing a really good idea



dont mind me... i type as i think



hahaha


i dont know... im not willing to let my piece of the pie get any smaller and have found that the footwork of demo-sending need not apply if you put more time into your tunes and performances.... provided you market yourself well business comes to you

naive approach i know but its worked so far

ps, the motown records thing was funny :) youre a funny bastard arent you :P

[soundnotscene]

As someone who has worked in the industry for over 9 years... as a label manager, A&R manager, and artist manager...

dont listen to what people "think" they know about contracts.... spend the $ and take it to a qualified lawyer (most contracts usually stipulate you have to take it to a lawyer anyway - if they dont have that clause in there... i would be very suspect).

If you are serious about making music, get any record / publishing contract checked by a lawyer (preferably a music industry lawyer) IMO the best in australia that is cost effective is Media Arts Lawyers (based on Melb).

All contracts are written different and each needs its own attention.

[driload]

sage advice



a quick netsearch will help you find tonnes of info as 'food for thought' also

[Tax Invoice]

Originally posted by phunkdust
first things first - "Indie" refers to rock music - ie bands with guitars 8-)



Sorry phunkdust but you're "full of it!" :lol:
(stirring...)
I think you're getting confused with 'Alternative' bands!?

Indie refers to independantly owned record companies &/or distribution. In Australia we have our own organisation representing such labels, Association Of Independant Record Labels (AIR) who weekly email out sales charts.

With regards to contracts:
"Get yerself a lawyer son! -Yer gonna need a reeeal good one!"

[djbc]

Originally posted by Tax Invoice

With regards to contracts:
"Get yerself a lawyer son! -Yer gonna need a reeeal good one!"

:lol: :lol: ;D :lol: :lol:

[dj-yogi]

hey phunk dust im in d process of setting a record label, could i email u or could u email me to tell me how it works, first thing is im not sure if i register the record label as a business or what?
My email is gta8@hotmail.com
or u can just post info but any info is much appreciated. thanx

[phunkdust]

You want to start a record label? Got some spare cash? :lol:

First of all I'd be speaking to APRA http://www.apra.com.au/ and checking out what you need to do to register with them as a label, this means you're all good legally.

Then after thats sorted I'd be looking at the tax system. You'll need to register your label as a business and get an ABN. http://www.ato.gov.au

After that you'll probably want to seek out a pressing plant (be it CD or Vinyl)

Remember you'll need plenty of contacts to get the music out there to the punters, plenty of promotion, etc.

And of course some artists to go on the record label

A website perhaps?

And probably a large bank account.

Still want to start a record label? :lol:

If you do, I'd be speaking to polarbear he's the resident labels expert.

[driload]

Originally posted by dj-yogi
hey phunk dust im in d process of setting a record label, could i email u or could u email me to tell me how it works, first thing is im not sure if i register the record label as a business or what?
My email is gta8@hotmail.com
or u can just post info but any info is much appreciated. thanx


ah tsk tsk tsk....

do this FIRST please....


go WORK FOR a label

its naive to think you can just start up a label and do okay

it takes a LOT of time and a LOT LOT LOT of money even for a real small operation.

it has to be done out of LOVE and DO NOT EXPECT TO MAKE ANY MONEY for a few years at least



yes... i have taken part in setting up a label. even knowing what i was doing, tapping lucrative resources and having rather extensive business background and "on tap" free legal advice id not want to go through it again.... although im glad i did

contradiction? yeah


my advice is just go work or volunteer with a label of some sort to get an idea of what it REALLY entails, and trust me its tricky and theres a LOT of ways to get stung, especially for a new enterprise



Polarbear is a good source for ideas if he's got the time.

... you might say he's got knowledge in excess

(XS.. get it? uh.... ahem)

[dj-yogi]

thanx for the info guys, if anyone can give me any more advice it would be much appreciated.BDW i know melbourne is the only vinyl press here in Australia, where bout would there be a cd press s there one in Sydney and how much does it cost to get it pressed? Thanx

[phunkdust]

driload! :lol:

CD press in sydney? damn theres got to be shitloads of them. Prices are usually $1/unit not including inlays or disc face printing. The full kebab (inlays, disc prints, etc) usually works out to be $3 to $7 per unit depending on the run length.

[soundnotscene]

go WORK FOR a label its naive to think you can just start up a label and do okay

How true !

There are a few good books that will give you a general insight to the music biz - check out phil trips site www.themusic.com.au
however experience will count.

I would also suggest you contact AIR (Association of Independent Record labels) www.air.org.au

Prices for pressing should be no more than $ 2 for disc, case and 4 page booklet full assembled (based on 500 units) ... shop around you can get cheaper.

With regards to 12"s i wouldnt bother with Australian production... if you are looking to sell it internationally (where the market is), australia's pressings are regarded as low grade quality. Cheaper and better quality to press in the UK, esp if you have an eye to getting it distributed worldwide.

Things to consider...
* distribution... no use having a label unless you have an outlet to get it to retail
* a good lawyer who can draw up a good contract
* a business plan
* long term goals
* most importantly... good music

[dj-yogi]

thanx alot guys also soundbutnotscene how do u land yourself a job in the music industry ???

[dj-yogi]

also my main aim is to set up the record label as a happy hardcore/hardcore label since australia does not have one

[Sean]

yogi: get in contact with the guys in perth, there's at least one hardcore label over here. ill try rem ember the name.

[dks49]

Hey guys I am not really adding anything new here but...as a final year law student I can say NEVER EVER sign a contract without taking it away and having it looked at by an experienced lawyer. It won't always be cheap but investing in good legal advice is worth it. Contracts are always messy and it is so very easy to get f***ed over. My 2 cents worth.

[dj-yogi]

Thanx Alot

[Tax Invoice]

With regards to CD manufacturing, I'd suggest Getting hold of the Australian Music Industry Directory (from Phil Trip -Immedia). It'll cost you about $27 or so, but invaluable for contacts not only in manufacturing, but other lables, publishers, distributors, studios, music industry associations, even artists & their managment (although that section isn't terribly comprehensive).

If you use this you'll save money as you will deal direct with the manufacturer, as opposed to those ads you see in the back of street mags where most are 'brokers' who put a mark up on the price.

[phunkdust]

Originally posted by Tax Invoice

Sorry phunkdust but you're "full of it!" :lol:
(stirring...)


I was sooooo waiting for that one to come back at me! :lol: :P 8-)

[driload]

Originally posted by dj-yogi
thanx alot guys also soundbutnotscene how do u land yourself a job in the music industry ???

how long is a piece of string?


sorry but thats a pretty crazy question with crazier answers. everybody would have a different answer.

for me a science degree led to my interest in acoustics and engineering, which led to the Conservatorium's Music Tech course, which led to SAE and freelance engineering jobs, organising a few events, releasing albums etc etc

at the same time i was immersed in the scene making music and playing gigs and being a naive little fool thinking that id ever make a cent out of this music thing... also water will find its own level, if you know what i mean, so my ending up in an act like Superfluid was no coincidence... never be afraid of being social and open to working with others.... networking is one thing but learning from people and teaching others is essential (and rewarding)


everyone will find a different way in this fucked up industry but a general passion for it and a lot of endurance for the bullshit and ripoffs and junkies and the like will take you a long way.

ps, do some research on the Newcastle happyhard producers... if memory serves me correctly there was a crew down that way selling TONNES of HH around the world (especially sweden!?!?)


pps, in your situation it would help if you gave us some ideas of what your musical background and age are and we can recommend specific things. feel free to bust out any general questions to us... we're a nice enough bunch (when we've had our coffee)


ignore most of what i say though... im as lost as any and well aware that ive a LOT to learn........

:-D

[dj-yogi]

Ok , i now this is heaps young im 17 and nearly at the end of my year 12. Ive done business camps before and have beeen djing since year 8 so since i was 14. I feel that i know alot about the happy hardcore music industry as ive beeen listening to it for ay too long and wen i say long i mean about 6 years.
And thats about it. I kind of understand how it all goes but am not aware of the contracts and who has to be writing them out when u did set yourself a deal.
Anywayz once again thanx

[El Grapadura]

I've been meaning to post a message to this thread for a couple of weeks now, but haven't been able to find the time! Better late than never I guess :-P

At Enigma Records we license music on a track-by-track basis; that is, we license certain tracks from an artist in return for royalties and, more importantly, exposure for the producer(s). They are free to do as they wish with their other tracks, and in fact are encouraged to sign with other labels as well. Anything that raises the profile of an Enigma artist can only aid in benefiting both parties! But at the same time we'd also like to maintain a lengthy relationship with anyone signed to Enigma so we're able to release their tracks well into the future. Of course we'd think about releasing an entire album by an artist if it absolutely blows us away, but that wasn't the original intent when setting up the company.

Although we offer a good royalty rate (which I guess I probably shouldn't divulge here), you shouldn't expect an *enormous* amount of cash to come floating your way as a result of a basic record deal (with us or with anyone). That is, you're not going to become a millionaire overnight! As has been mentioned already in this thread, the main benefit of signing with a smaller label is the exposure that it gets you, which can then be used as a stepping stone to go on to bigger and better things. What I CAN say about the royalties is how they are calculated for a CD release (or at least how *we* do it). Basically the total royalties are shared between all of the artists on the CD, depending on how many tracks they've contributed. So, if there are 10 tracks on a CD and a particular artist has written 3 tracks, then they'd get 30% of the total royalties. The length of the tracks is irrelevant.

Also, we offer a flat royalty rate which is irrespective of most other factors. For example, large labels usually reduce the overall royalty rate for things such as packaging, free goods, R&D costs, reserves, etc, but we thought this was unnecessarily complex and didn't seem particularly fair to the artists. Hence we simplified things a bit, and as a result it's much clearer to the artist what they're actually getting in return for their music.

Once signed with Enigma you're assured of being featured on a CD release (and of course everything that goes along with that, for example a possible live set at the launch (and at other parties), reviews of your work, radio play, etc, etc), as well as a probable vinyl pressing. The fact that a track has been accepted into the label already means it's good enough to be put onto vinyl, and hence you'd probably see your better tracks go down that path.

In the end we're all doing it for the love of it, and the contracts are just there to protect both parties. Obviously I can't speak for other labels, but you can rest assured that there aren't any dodgy or unreasonable clauses in our contracts. But of course it's always a good idea to have a lawyer look over something before you dive in. There are a lot of untrustworthy people out there...

Anyway, we're still accepting demo CDs for our next CD and vinyl releases. Details on how to send them to us are at http://www.enigmarecords.com.au/enigma/contact/demo.asp. But please make sure it's your best work, and not everything you've ever written! We're looking for hard house, trance, techno, hard trance and progressive music, as well as breaks and drum and bass.

I hope that answers some of your questions...

Glenn

[AliaK]

you might be interested in attending sound summit in newcastle in october - lots of seminars/workshops/panels etc about music industry and labels.. check out electrofringe/this is not art as well, and writers festival for PR/promotion tips

http://www.octapod.org.au/soundsummit/

the draft program in on their site..

a great place to ask questions of industry people