Send/Return on Mixers?

[djvector]

After coming into a bit of cash from my 21st, I am planning to invest in an FX unit to enhance the creativity of my DJ sets. I am currently tossing up between the Korg KaossPad 2 and the Pioneer EFX-500 (the KP2 is winning though - it's so damn sexy).

Browsing through specs of various high-end mixers, I've noticed that one feature a lot of them have is something called send/return, "so you can connect an external effects unit". My question has two-parts:

1) What is send/return? What does it do?
2) Is it necessary for connecting an FX unit?

I currently have a Vestax PMC-03A (pretty basic, 2 chn, 2 band eq), and want to know whether I will be able to use a KP2 or EFX-500 with it, or whether I will also have to fork out $1000+ for a new mixer with send/return.

Any help would be appreciated. If anyone can tell me which places in Sydney stock the KP2, that would also be great.


Thanks,

Dave

[Phibbler]

Send return means that you can route the incoming audio signal out to a FX unit or some where else , and have it return back to the mixer.

you wont be able to do it straight off your mixer i think, but that doesn't really matter. if you are clever you can hook up a stack of cable and a switch box from tandy and do the same thing.

[Sean]

imo there is no contest kp2 all the way

a mixer with an effects loop isnt absolutely necessary, however it is prefferable and you'll prolly end up getting one anyway soon.

send/return is an effects loop off the channels of the mixer, it means you can assign any channel to the effects processor and control the wet/dry mix of the signal. this allows you to preview effects and run effects through eq'd signal (depending on loop configuration)

if you dont have an effects loop, like your current mixer, you have two options.

firstly you can put the effects unit on one source before it goes into the mixer. but this means you can only run effects on one deck at a time.

or you can run the effects unit on the master signal (between the mixer and amp)

i wouldnt do the latter because effects often boost the signal significantly and you want to be able to have control of the signal strength. you dont want to be mixing, add an effect and have clipping on the pa.

if you can afford to get a new mixer with effects loop do it. in fact i woulda bought a new mixer long before considering an effect box, but thats just me. if you cant afford to get a new mixer then try either of those two options.

[hpstekno]

kp2 is the goods sounddevices look after korg in sydney i dunno if it's out yet went looking for one about a month ago and they said it wasn't out yet :( anyone know how much they are ? i wanna sell my efx 500 and get one

[mungo]

For live dj's FX are usually an insert connection, the send/return just aint gonna cut it. With a bit of creative routing mixers with switchable inputs (line/phono is the norm) this can be done.

[kaossproject]

I sometimes use the Korg Kaoss Pad as a send device (delay/reverb) but find that send effects (in general) are too subtle. Better to go insert.

But depends what you are after in terms of effects. The Kaoss Pad has some good send effects as well as a fair share of insert type effects.

Experiment.

At the end of the day there isn't anything better than a bass cut the way a Kaoss Pad does it.......perfect finger control. I Love it!!;)

[Sean]

hehehe on dj mixers there's no insert/send differentiation its all one big fuck off aux loop :)

[driload]

>1) What is send/return? What does it do?

an output that literally sends a signal to your fx unit. the amount of signal being sent, and from what channel, is controlled by a knob on each channel, giving you great control over just what is being FX'd and HOW MUCH is being FX'd.


>2) Is it necessary for connecting an FX unit?

you can apply various work-arounds but in the end, it IS necessary because why waste time and quality to save a few dollars?

and just let me define one thing, dj mixers have SEND/RETURNs which in 'normal engineer' mixers are known as Auxillary sends/returns.

there are never inserts on dj mixers. ever. its overkill.

inserts should be used for SPU devices, such as compressors and limiters.

aux sends/returns are for reverbs, delays, chorus, etc


its often useful to run aux sends back into their own channel strip

dont do this with inserts though (obviously... heh heh)

Kaoss Pad... there is no need to use this as an insert AT ALL. it has a switch on it which can cut out the original signal or combine it with the effected signal. in my setup i run it OUT of Aux2 (Aux1 is to a sampler) and into the Kaoss.... have it switched to CUT OUT the "dry" signal (so only the fx go out) and then i have it hard-wired into its own channel on the mixer. i dont use the Aux Return 2 at all, this is because i use the ALT3/4 bus to record to computer, and that doesnt output auxs/r on my mixer. so i can switch the Kaoss channel in and out of the recording bus as i see fit. a good and workable setup. it also avoids feedback loops when im sending a signal from pc to effect.

with this setup no need for TRS cables/inserts and rubbish like that.

oh and NEVER buy a second hand Kaoss Pad. they are made to break and believe me, it WILL break. the clear ones break less, but still they are not made for all time. KP2 might be different, cant wait to test out the bpm/midi sync'ing of effects.


DRI WHINGES AS USUAL THAT KAOSS PADS ONLY HAVE RCA CONNECTIONS!!! WHYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

[djvector]

Musiclink (www.musiclink.com.au (http://www.musiclink.com.au/)) are Korg's Australian distributor (according to Korg's website), and they have the KP2 listed on their site at $799 (same as the KP1). I asked them for some more info and a list of resellers, but I haven't had any response from them yet.

[driload]

i wouldnt rush out to get one

wait a few weeks and sale price will drop (real world sale, not list price)

remember in the music biz nothing is EVER sold at list price

i wouldnt pay more then around 500 to 600 for the KP2

[kaossproject]

Ummmmm......my terminology for insert might be different or wrong?!

I use the Kaoss pad "in-line" on my master out or I use it as a send unit and dial in the "FX" on the mixer corresponding to the channel I want effected.

/ I don't know all this jargon yet, I just play it by ear;)

[Phibbler]

I wouldn't knock the efx with out trying it though...

i love mine, it's really sweet for bpm sync'd delay options.

Love switching between eighth and triplet delays on the fly. Wish there was controller data in/out but otherwise its very easy to use, and very useful.

I suggest you just try it.