studio monitors

[suenomartino]

interested to see what people here suggest checking out as far as studio monitors go..

I'm looking for something cost effective that will provide a fairly "true" sound to use for production on my pc.. anything has to be better than the sony bookshelfs i'm using currently :)

does anyone make self-powered monitors? (Ie: no need for an amp) if so, are these worth considering?

thanks in advance..
j

[redmond_herring]

Behringer Truth B2031 150W RMS powered monitors.

Heard these at Gab Oliver's Studio the other day and was rather impressed - you can pick them up for US$400, which isnt overly expensive for what they are - as they're powered and all....

Excellent sound for the dollar.

:) :P :p

[Sean]

yes those truths cant be fucked with for the $$$

[suenomartino]

never been a fan of behringer gear though... always seemed "cheap" in terms of quality... guess you always get what you pay for though

[phunkdust]

I'll second that - Behringer Truths. Best monitor I've heard for that kind of price. Fully shielded and bi-amped.

Red, don't know where you got that figure, but they go for AUD$1200 here...

[redmond_herring]

phunk -

http://www.zzounds.com/love.music?p=p.BEHB2031&z=1500664170524

US$399 dude....:-)

:) :P :p

[Sean]

yeah thats in the usa. but here they run for about 1200

[Tax Invoice]

I'm using Yorkville YSM1's of which I can't sing the praises of enough!

http://www.yorkville.com/default.asp?section=2&level2=29&level3=0&id=8

[digitalboy2020]

Little bit more expensive, but i'm using the Genelec 1029A's and they are fantastic. I'm a lucky bastard and picked up a pair for $1200 but i think the retail for about $2200.

[redmond_herring]

yeah thats in the usa. but here they run for about 1200


even with exchange rate and shipping you could save a few hundred from OS, if your a buy off the net type of character...

even so $1200 is a good price and not inflated compared to some $2000+ monitors I've heard!

Genelec 1029A's

$1200 for these? you lucky son of a! tidy speakers they are.....



:) :P :p

[danielmarshall]

this is a field of music production that i know precious little about, so i might be entitled to a good flaming, but how do you know if your speakers are really giving a flat frequency responce? i'm also looking at getting a new set of monitors, but can only shell out about $600. any suggestions?

i was talking to kazu kimura a while back and i think he said that a sound card he baught allowed him to monitor pretty much just by using head phones. maybe i heard him wrong - it's easy with his cool accent lol

[phunkdust]

Sure, you can monitor with headphones, you just have to train your ears so you know when the headphones are telling lies... I use KOSS UR-30 headphones to monitor (when I can't run speakers because of "noise restrictions") and I know that they have a touch of boost on the bass and are also very crisp in the midrange - on speakers the midrange response is more muddy so i have to adjust accordingly - usually upping the vocals.

[kaossproject]

Different Systems.....Different Sounds

Whatever monitors you get you have to get to know them and you have to know what sort of curve to use with them. Just as with the soundcard in your puter.

Ultimately, you are looking to master a track with a flat (ish) curve so that the system that you put your CD into can add the rest. Its a trial and error approach because it takes time to know how your system reproduces the frequencies.

So you are going to have to take your track to as many different systems as possible and see how it translates. Also with Electronica you will have to test on big PAs' as well, this reveals alot too.

Another trick would be to give your track to a DJ friend so he can mix it in with his set....then watch how he sets the EQ/Levels on his mixer. This also gives you a good perspective by which to compare your track in terms of quality etc......

It takes time.......;)

[N4TE]

Assuming we're talking budget, the best sub AUD$300 monitors for a home studio would be the Logitech Z640's. (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,5141118%5e15323%5e%5enbv%5e15308,00.html) at 50 Watts, they aint screamingly loud, but they're loud enough to work with. The frequency response compares very well to some of the more expensive powered speakers on the market at up to 5 times the price.

They work best plugged into a 5.1 channel soundcard, but have an active matrixing doodad (that's the technical term) which emulates a 5.1 output from a normal stereo output (1/8 jack or RCA). They're selling everywhere for about $250 and at that price, there's nothing even close on the market. Similar speced setups, like the creative aspire 5.1, sell for about 50 to 100 bucks cheaper, but the difference in performance and sound quality is massive. If you want a cheap, useful monitor option, the logitechs are the best bet so far.

Of course, you should always try to hear your track on a few different setups before you say "it's done." Know anyone with a PA? mateswork or DJ at clubs? ask nicely to hear your track on a big system. It's amazing what a difference it makes.

I'll do a round-up on this subject, it's to important to overlook.

[mungo]

Logitech - ha ha ha ha ha ha

If you want really cheap junk like this at least go for the ones allmost suited for monitoring.

Yamaha YST-M20

Just dont use the "DSP" on them its like a horrible flanger experiment gone wrong.

[N4TE]

sorry mungo, just going with what was available in the shop at the time. I bow to your superior knowledge. Can you tell me where to find the yamahas in australia 'cos I'm having trouble chasing them down.

I know logitech are best known for mice and keyboards, but you read the reviews and speak to some people who own and use them, and I think you'll find they're not bad for the price. Not everyone who cruises these forums has the bucks for a set of real near field monitors, so it's best to look instead for the broadest signal response you can afford, which again brings me back to the Z640's. Next week some time I'll start my research into what's out there in the sub $500 catagory. In the meantime, if you could find an australian supplier of those yamahas, that'd be just dandy. cheers.

[mungo]

YST M15 around $100
YST MSW10 matching sub around $150

often found as YST system 35 for around $200

Got mine in cash converters for $80. But your local yamaha dealer should be able to get them in.

The YST M100's look nice, full wood enclosures and 20W a channel.

The active servo technology really does make the difference, the sub is not really needed but goes all the way down and covers all the frequency of most PA's. The mids of the satellites are smoother than my Sennheiser headphones. They only lack sharpness in the top end but are still better than any of the other computer style speakers.

[horsey]

Hey... newbie 'ere... *waves

just thought id fill you in with my experience with the Truths...

Went into Mannys quite eager to have a listen to the Truth after reading (very sceptically) the specs and was very impressed with the price.
Anyway, they were still in the box but the guy there said it was cool to set them up and have a listen. He plugged everything in, turned the desk on and *boom.....shhhh,,,, fizzle*... tweeter blew. He looked embarressed and swore he had never seen them do that before. I believe him. But it goes to show the crap Behringer put out.

I'm not going to pay behringer out, they make cheap, crap audio gear, but most of us don't have heaps of money to spend on good gear, suffice to say a lot of us own behringer gear *looks at eurorack mx 2004A* It makes WAY too much noise, is inconsistant across the faders and its EQ is a joke (great for effect though) However, its a 20 channel desk, 4 stereo ins, nice output options and for $700 you just WILL NOT find a desk as cheap (that still has a SLIGHT bit of quality)

What the hell is he banging on about i hear you all ask ;) ... well, when I look back I wish I had saved a little more money for an allen & heath desk. nicer EQ, better pres, lower noise floor and better build quality.

Do NOT buy stuff because its cheap. If it seems too good to be true it usually is in audio land, no exception. The behringers DO NOT have a flat frequency response. They are an upmarket hifi speaker. If you're serious about monitoring then you simply wouldn't buy them (and I do believe Gab is using Mackie 824s, not Truths) It comes down to personal choice, but make sure you have a listen to the best (go down to A-Wave and check out the dynaudios) then A/B them with the Truths and I think you'll find out why there is such a difference in price.


On the subject of monitoring is general, I think you need to ask yourself "do I really need these monitors?" are you producing music that is being sold to the general public, or simply bustin some beats in fruity loops, in which case I probably wouldn't bother just yet. At the moment the studio I am working in is in the process of listening to a stack of monitors to determine which will be suitable for our environment. We are talking $20 000 for a pair of speakers (which will eventually be expanded to 5:1) ... when you are listening to speakers in that range you would imagine they all sounds like gold... nope... a lot sounds like crap. We have to project ourselves and try to imagine what our ears would be like after mixing for 16 hours... and we're pulling our hair out. This will take us a LONG time, and it should no matter what the budget. You have to buy whats right for you.

If you are serious about good nearfield monitors, then I think you should save a few more $$$ and get something like the 624s, genies, dyns, quests etc... the players who have been in the game from the beginning. Make sure you choose a monitor that YOU feel comfortable mixing on (thanks Ivan :)) and a pair that don't colour your sounds too much. Take a few pairs home (if you can) borrow the off a friend and put on your favourite CD. How does it sound? Put on a CD you think sounds totally shit (again, thanks Ivan! :)) how does it sounds? it should sound CRAP!!

Dont believe the hype, use your ears... and take the time because monitors are REALLY important! LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN :D

(sorry for rambling! ;))

horsey

[phunkdust]

Kris & Gab were using Behringer Truth monitors, I was in there myself, so I saw them there on the stands, being used. ;D

the main technical hitch that i dont like about the Truths is the actual network design - 8 inch woofer, 1 inch dome tweeter... the crossover is a 4th order (24db/oct) at 2khz. now, if you put the crossover at 2k, the tweeter is doing an awful lot of work, which explains the harshness in the high range, especially at louder levels...

true linear speakers are 3 way with 2nd order crossovers... by using 4th order you're forcing your drivers to work hard at the edges of their response range, generating harshness and dips and peaks in the response, requiring active EQ to compensate, when in the first place you could have just used a better driver... ;)

[N4TE]

here's Kris and Gab in the studio, and you can see the truth for yourself. That's a joke son, get it? Truth? nvm.



http://www.inthemix.com.au/images/contrib/truth.jpg

[N4TE]

btw, welcome to the forums, horsey. don't be stranger, I think you're another one of those guys who will turn out being handy to have around.

cheers fuckn.

[horsey]

well i'll be damned ;)

[N4TE]

think it's Ivan Gough who swears by Mackie monitors, mate. Someone I was talking to recently was raving about them, just can't remember who.

ps thanques 4 da photo, Redmond.

[Inertia]

Ivan does swear by them (824s), but I also know that he would gladly sell them tomorrow and buy something else. If you ask Marc from BackBeach Studio (engineer for Madison Avenue), he will tell you that the Mackies are an expensive set of bookends, because they add too much colour to the mix. Personal preference is the thing here.

IMHO, I would look closely at the Dynaudio's. That's what we're saving for. If you can get your hands on a pair, also try to get a set of Yamaha NS10m's (that's all we use atm).

Adam

[hpstekno]

hhahahah such a contentious issue......
the advise "use your ears" is spot on ,no one monitor is gonna be perfect for everyone shit i been using a shitty ol pair of 100w accusound bookshelf speakers and a home made 80w sub running through a home made active crossover but i've been using them for sooooo long i know them very well and how they translate to other systems... sure i'd love a set of quested or genelecs' but then i'd have to "relearn" them ....
yamaha ns10's are the shittiest speakers i've ever heard way too harsh on the top end and not a lot of activity down low but thats my opinion but heaps of people swear by them... and the mackies do colour the bottom end a bit but they're fuckin loud!!!!
the spirit absolute series are very nice also

just use ur ears and when purchasing speakers make sure you take a cd of music ur making too many times i've gone into a shop and asked to hear a set of monitors and they've thrown on mariah carey or some shit i mean hard techno is worlds away from that and needs a set of monitors that are nice to that sort of music ie lots of bottom end
if your getting passive speakers the amp you use will be an important considderation aswell .....food for thought
anyway peace
H.P.S?

[vance musgrove]

if you're heading down the headphone route like i am, nothing but NOTHING is better than Sennheiser HD600s...

they're super duper accurate but come with a few drawbacks:

1: they're headphones (after all) so be careful to keep your stereo image in good order and TAKE THEM OFF every once in a while...

2: they're open-backed in design so mixing in loud environments is not on...

if you can manage to get around these things they rawk bigtime... i would love a pair of proper monitors but its frankly not worth the money when my room is the shape it is :P

[Inertia]

Couldn't agree more about the Sennheiser HD 600's... they are the clearest headphone that I have ever heard. A lot of sound engineers use them to check their final mix, because you can often hear things with them that you just don't pick up on standard monitors.

If you can't afford a really decent set of monitors, or portability is important, these (IMO) are the only way to go.

[audiolive]

NS10's FTW

[Fledz]

Holy 10 year necro batman!

[chickenbum]

Focal Twin 6
Adam A7x
Focal CMS 65
Adam S3
Dynaudio BM5a
KRK VXT series
Event 20/20

[Funkedub]

yea ... i think you're advice might be a little late

[slackas]

wow... a 10 year bump... no shit hey.

[chickenbum]

just thought id post that if he hadnt decided in 9 and a half years

[Essi]

for late comers, don't buy genelec 8050 they break easy as and dont sound anywhere as good as opals do

[Fewsion]

Loud Noises

[shr3dder]

Epic bump. I was very confused till I saw the date.

[Heist9000]

These I want...

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/xl/1600-TheEggM_detail1.jpg

They are aparently amazing sounding as well as looking totes cool

[Joe-Trojan]

Unless you are the easter bunny they look gay.

[Spectrum]

Anyone remember what were those 'pod' speakers were from circa 2000, allegedly used by Orbital, that featured a similar enclosure design, like 3 spheres stacked together (but in, say, a bright red colour scheme), so that the port + woofer + tweeter were positioned one above the other, each on their own sphere? They went alright too, helped presumably by the irregular shaped enclosure with zero standing waves or obvious resonant modes.

[Skerik]

You mean these ones Spec?

http://www.otheroom.com/namm02/images/Techno/tannoy.jpg

I had a set @ the Academy years ago, i didn't mind the sound of em

waaay overpriced tho, and they look just weird

[Spectrum]

Nah, not the Tannoys... but I do remember them too now. Go the Nu-School Old-Skool stuff, huh?!! ;D

Damn I wish I could remember what they are... I have just rummaged through Future Music and Sound On Sound mag articles and ads dating back to around 1996 (incidentally, my oldest is Future Music #4 from 1993... too funny!), but damned if I can find these speakers again. Unlike the Tannoy's, each sphere is well, circular, and there's three spheres stacked for each speaker, port in the bottom ball, woofer in the middle, tweeter in the top. Arghhhhh!!!

What else was around back then for the bedroom studio hack?

I remember the Soundcraft Absolute 2 used to bit a hit with the English:
http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/hardware/IMAGES/spirit_absolute_2_main.jpg

And what about KRK back in the day? The Rokits resembled some sort of Aztec pyramid:
http://www.sweetwater.com/reports/summer-namm97/graphics/large/krk.jpg

Ah, memories. Now if someone who can come back to me with this Pod speaker I'm thinking of (and do you think I can Google 'pod speaker' in these modern Apple times and get a sensible response?), I'll proudly present you with 150,000 points.

[Skerik]

i think i remember the ones you're talking about - big red floor standing things?

[dyLABs]

http://www.newlaunches.com/entry_images/0208/07/Pod_speakers_1.jpg

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Images/SeriesFeature/xxxlarge/800--Tech--Nautilus.jpg

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/Nautilus/Overview.html

[Skerik]

that's them - i remember seein that bottom one in red somewhere

Maybe an ad?

[brown820]

It feels weird knowing I was 10 when this thread was made. Really weird.

[Citizen]

It feels weird knowing I was 10 when this thread was made. Really weird.

Honest?!

Daaaaaaaaaaammmnnnn.....


Epic thread bump. :thumb:

[hpstekno]

fuck i forget how long i've been on this site

[Skerik]

It feels weird knowing I was 10 when this thread was made. Really weird.

Well done - you've just made a whole pile of people suddenly feel old

Cheers for that

:thumb:

[Spectrum]

http://www.newlaunches.com/entry_images/0208/07/Pod_speakers_1.jpg


BINGO!!! :rock:

150,000 POINTS awarded to DYLABS.


Now who makes made them???

[Spectrum]

It feels weird knowing I was 10 when this thread was made. Really weird.


And then consider I'd been already been partying in clubs/pubs/warehouses/fields-and-festivals for 10 years by that point... culminating in what many might consider the heyday of EDM.


Kinda sad that not much has happened since. :emo:

[PSD4]

Now who makes made them???
They're made by Scandyna, and still in production as far as I know.

[Joe-Trojan]

BINGO!!! :rock:

150,000 POINTS awarded to DYLABS.


Now who makes made them???

Scandyna.

Edit: reasons for the curvy shape would have a lot more to do with the outside shape of the enclosure than the inside. Not that inside reflections reverberations ect arn't a problem, but baffle diffraction step (look it up) is probably a larger factor in speaker design.

And then consider I'd been already been partying in clubs/pubs/warehouses/fields-and-festivals for 10 years by that point... culminating in what many might consider the heyday of EDM.


Kinda sad that not much has happened since. :emo:

I agree the heyday has passed. I wouldn't wish to be a 20 now and being brought up on todays music.

[PSD4]

Also allegedly used (at some stage) by sven vath
http://3345rpm.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/records-sven-vath.jpg

[Spectrum]

http://music-recording.co.uk/files/images/Mackie-HR-824-active-monitors.jpg

Plenty of circa-2000 studio monitor love on "The Voice" at the moment with the original Mackie HR824s providing all the control room action for the rehearsal sessions.

[Spectrum]

They're made by Scandyna, and still in production as far as I know.

Ahhhh... so they're Danish. Figures.

http://www.scandyna-speakers.com/Profile/The_history.aspx


And readily available in Australia too.

http://www.scandyna-speakers.com/Profile/The_history.aspx

[Spectrum]

Edit: reasons for the curvy shape would have a lot more to do with the outside shape of the enclosure than the inside. Not that inside reflections reverberations ect arn't a problem, but baffle diffraction step (look it up) is probably a larger factor in speaker design.

Ah yes, kinda across that with many designers 'planing back' the edges out from the drivers. How does this compare to waveguide horn-like designs by comparison, do you think?

Also the Tannoy example that Skerik posted is interesting with tweeter virtually free of any baffle (though having the it time-aligned with the woofer, I wonder whether there's any audible effect by being reflected by the top of the main cabinet?). Thinking about it some more, isn't that a 'super tweeter' anyway, so really designed for the beyond human perception frequencies (beyond 20kHz), while the co-centric tweeter within the woofer itself is managing the high frequencies we typically hear? Trying to remember the sales blurb from back in the day.


I agree the heyday has passed. I wouldn't wish to be a 20 now and being brought up on todays music.

Haha, it's so elitist to say, but hey. :lol:

[Joe-Trojan]

Also allegedly used (at some stage) by sven vath
http://3345rpm.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/records-sven-vath.jpg


That dj room looks like the stuff he plays.


Ah yes, kinda across that with many designers 'planing back' the edges out from the drivers. How does this compare to waveguide horn-like designs by comparison, do you think?

Also the Tannoy example that Skerik posted is interesting with tweeter virtually free of any baffle (though having the it time-aligned with the woofer, I wonder whether there's any audible effect by being reflected by the top of the main cabinet?). Thinking about it some more, isn't that a 'super tweeter' anyway, so really designed for the beyond human perception frequencies (beyond 20kHz), while the co-centric tweeter within the woofer itself is managing the high frequencies we typically hear? Trying to remember the sales blurb from back in the day.


Haha, it's so elitist to say, but hey. :lol:

You will notice that studio monitors don't have grills, as opposed to HiFi that do. I know it's to do with the operatiing environment (hifi: kids and adults throwing shit about the living room) but the frames required for a grill create a jagged response curve, not easily eq'd for in the x-over, whereas baffle step is to a point. Mounting a driver/tweeter flush with the baffle is also hugely important.

If a horn/waveguide is large enough it can be mounted without a baffle but if it is small it must be mounted flush with the baffle, it's down to some relationship between the wavelenght and size of the horn/baffle. From my limited understanding a waveguid/horn makes the driver more efficient within the horn pass band, therefore the driver distorts less for a given db over that range = win.


Elitist? maybe.

[PSD4]

That dj room looks like the stuff he plays.
Haha, his isn't even the most boring of the 'minimal dj listening rooms'
Ellen Allien
http://3345rpm.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/records-ellen-allien.jpg
Villalobos
http://3345rpm.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/records-ricardo-villalobos.jpg
Steve Bug
http://3345rpm.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/bug-and-ame.jpg
Andre Galluzi
http://3345rpm.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/records-andre-galluzzi2.jpg