EDITORIAL: Why do we think Internationals are better than local talent?

[jayblue]

Why do many of us judge ‘internationals’ as so much more worthy of praise, and dollar spend than our own local talent?

It’s funny – we’re generally quite happy to rate our food, wine, fashion and lifestyle as world class, yet when it comes to DJs, the cultural cringe still seems to apply. How many times have you heard the phrase “I’m not going to pay <insert dollar figure here> for an all local line up?”


Why not? I ask.


I’ll admit that promoters need to spend more money to bring international talent over here, and yes, you can’t see ‘blah from the UK’ every day but does that justify extremely inflated ticket prices for many of the events they play at? I’m sure everyone out there can name at least one experience in which an international you’ve paid big bucks for has been ludicrously over-hyped, and disappointed you.


Yes we’re often treated to some amazing stuff from overseas visitors. But many of the best clubbing, and party, experiences I’ve had have been courtesy of some of the fine DJs we have right in our own backyard.


What do you think?

[jayblue]

and here's a few email responses we received this morning:

" I totally agree with you!! Our local talent kick ass!!well most of them anyway,Just because they are from another country doesn't make them better although they do have a diffrent style! "


"After Just paying $55 a tkt not more than an hour ago to go and see DAVE CLARKE, I think your more than right.... though as u said.. U dont get see an international everyday. But slowly i think people are turning from the big name DJ and going just for the music.. im seeing it happen in my group of friends.. Though we are going to see Dave Clarke.. but our reason is because sydney has a pretty next to nil techno scence and its about time it got a kick in the ass."


"About your latest editorial - yes that's so true often the biggest names can be extremely dissapointing - take Paul Van Dyk's last tour very average reports
from everywhere but Perth. I was blown away with his 2000 Trade performance but his performance at QBH was such a fizzler ... likewise Oakenfold at the docks
last year - average was all that could descibe that performance ... on the other hand I went to a small Green Ant Party at POW just recently where S>Range
from Sweden played - who was very good - but it was the local boy Ozzy who rocked everybody's sox ...maybe its something about the intensity those not so
famous bring to the decks ... they are fresh hungry and willing to experiment. Unlike PVD who I am really pissed off with because he played like he didnt care
that the crowd were there ... 3000+ people there for him & so up for it and he barely gave a @!#$. So again maybe the local talent as well as being good - maybe
its their drive that makes em so good - their desire to please to move the crowd - its a double edged sword pay them big bucks and maybe they lose the intensity
too ... its all about the fresh talent and those special few who after years can keep it fresh by reinventing themselves and being on the edge ...always. "

[Flying747]

We should be so lucky
Lucky lucky lucky

We've got Kylie don't forget. :)

[scooter44]

Hiya,

Occassionally I will put on a gig at a smaller venue in Sydney....the last being "See No Evil" at the Mandarin Club on May 19th. The purpose of these is to get some of our best young talent and put them on show for the punters who wouldnt normally look at these guys/gals twice. The feedback from See No Evil was along the lines of..... "that music absolutely kicked it"..."it made my night!!! When is the next one!!"....the Dj's on show were Yin Yang (Score Bar, Ex-Globe), Sift (Innc), Julian (Globe) & Mink (Cauldron).... the sounds migrating from Funky Breaks beats to a Loved up Deep house finale. At the end of the day these guys blew everyone away and they were only doing what they do week in and week out.... they dont ask for DJ adoration, just that you the punter and their music blend....its all good and we here in Oz are lucky to see this talent any time we want. Add some of the others like Illpikle and Ajax, Kid Kenobi and Frenzy and you start to appreciate the depth of our scene.

I guess when you get a posse of B-boys come in off the street and do their thing saying "WOW.... you dont normally hear sounds this good in Sydney...Who are they???", you know that our local talent is on the right track.

Get out there and see them.... stay tuned for "See No Evil 002" and remember.... "BASS LIVES WITH BREAKS"........

Scottie

[kinky69]

I agree with most of the sentiments expressed.

I always have a great time at the Dome (Melbourne) on a Saturday night, it always rocks hard, recovery like Shine and the other local clubs in Prahran/South Yarra i.e. Viper, Salt etc. Local dance parties like Red Raw, Redemption, Magnitude are also mad.

But I also love having a big night (international) out e.g. David Morales @ Salt, Lab4 @ Frantic, Dome, Fergie @ Mardi Gras, Two Tribes, etc

I don't agree in paying in paying big $$$$ for (sydney) local talent, a classic example is New Years Eve in Sydney at Home nightclub.
I paid $80 for local dj's.
@!#$ night as well.
1. Sydney siders can't dance for @!#$.
2. Sydney dj's are still stuck in the 90's
3. I should of stayed in Melbourne.

The most I will pay for local, and it has to be a big dance party is $55-$70 which are Magnitude and Red Raw. Mardi Gras $150 a big exception.

Melbournes local talent is just as good as Overseas, dj's such as Papa Smurf, Zac Curran, Peter Macnamara, Jason D'Costa all Dome dj's, etc. but Sydney dj's (all except Alex Taylor, Nick Skitz, Nick Fish and Jumping Jack) aren't worth @!#$.

I will pay the big $$$ for Melbourne dj's but not Sydney.

[Chab]

No offence, but check out some more Sydney Dj's before making comments like that.

[Steve D]

well i was dissapointed with Adam Freeland cause he was geting called "the king of new schooll breaks" and i was like WOW there must be all this music out there wich is like Hybryd and BT and he's gonna play it! but that was not the case. On the other hand Nu breed (who were also more expensive i think) played a great set

[nick76]

Totally agreed jayblue...

Have almost lost count how many times I've shelled out mega $$ for a big international only for a local to be my pick of the night.

So hard to justify it anymore when u can see the likes of Ransom, Phil K and Kid Kenobi at the laundry for a mere $10 (as as example) and in way more intimate venue for that matter.

Kid Kenobi and Phil Smart are (IMO) consistently better than the big name internationals they are usually supporting.


Oh and Kinky69, please tell me you're joking.....

[nexus-6]

awesome thread - if only for the polarisation of intelligence and perception between kinky69 and everyone else.

if you were being serious, then i'd like to quote the source:

"3. i should have stayed in melbourne"

[Banana]

Kinky69..no offence but nickskitz has got top be the most fucked dj around..!.I wouldnt even call him a dj.I agree with chab by saying that you MUST take a more in depth look at what sydney has to offer before making a statement like the one you made.

Yoda..

[notadj]

Kinky69 i just had to congradulate you on making top of the list for the dumbest comment i have ever read in my life award, i run(as of know) on this forum.
if you had any music taste and knowledge you wouldnt make that comment.

notadjislaughingstill

[nexus-6]

oh my - has gfunk seen this post yet?? if not, it should be interesting to see his response.

[marcus]

alex taylor, nick skitz, jumping jack, and nik fish.... hehehe, what exactly do these DJs have in common? I've heard of grouping DJs together, but never seen a group with so little in common musically it's not funny... well, yes it is :)

[kinky69]

Excuse me I used to hail from Sydney and as I said there were a few good Sydney DJ's. (Alex Taylor, Nick Fish, Nick Skitz, Jumping Jack) and that is about it.
Melbourne is where it is at.

[notadj]

How old were you when you moved 12?

notadj

[smurph]

who was at home on new years eve?

i was at mobile, and despite the dig bucks to get in, sasha was great, pete tong was uninspiring, and the sound system was absolutely terrible, you could hear the distortion when they were doing the arvo testing, not even at full power.

The only reason i came away happy was because of jules beaumont, he rocked till close (which was a pitifully early 4am)

Many of my best nights out in sydney have had only local dj's. Although i do admit it is nice to hear people like morillo/lawler/emerson/cox and these types who can generally be relied on to play an awesome set. I dont think you can write off sydney dj's anymore, there is much talent that is doing the rounds, or still playing in their garages waiting for a break.

Kinky, I find it amusing that as well as picking the least popular genre around (for itm ppl that is) you've gone and chosen most of the worst dj's in the genre as your superstars. Even though i dont like the style, there are so many better sydney dj's around than those incompetants playing hard/tech/nrg kinda music. Get out of the flanelette, jump on the city train from penrith, go out some more and use skitzmix as a drink coaster. This may be your only chance for redemption.

&lt;/smurph&gt;

[scantly69]

Ohhh please all you sooky la la Sydney siders!

Stop your bloody bum rushing and open your eyes! All your noses are obivously out of joint or you would not be carrying on like this.

I think you all missed the point! I do not think that Kinky69 was dissing your beloved DJ's, in your beloved overrated, over priced, dirty, smelly city! The point was that the cost to see such local talent is far too much, when in our fair city of Melbourne, we would pay the same amount to see an international act (who quite often disapoint anyway). Why pay $65 to 90 to see someone local when you can see an international act for the same amount, usually supported by more talented local DJ's. Or you can see you local "superstars" (as some of you put it) on a regular basis for a lot less. I do not see why the name of the venue should attract such a huge entry fee every single week.

Now I am not going to compare any one DJ from Melb & Sydney or internationally. But I think you would find that the places that Kinky69 mentioned actually indicated that she did catch that city bound train to the Getto you call a city. And if you bother to read the DJ's listed then you would know the type of music that this person is into. Which leads me to believe that all of you Sydney siders are so up yourselfs that you would not know the different types of DJ's music to a TT FM DJ!

Cheers

[notadj]

slinky69,

I must disagree with you there, I understood the point put acrooss, as did most people, as that is not the part of the post in question.

>Sydney dj's (all except Alex Taylor, Nick Skitz, Nick Fish and Jumping Jack) aren't worth @!#$.
That is the part of the post in question and if you cant see that, You have no knowledge of DJ's in sydney.

but then again i am.....

notadj

[kinky69]

O.K. Mandy Rollins, Kate Monroe, and Anabelle Gaspar are damn good.

[smurph]

warmer, warmer

&lt;/smurph&gt;

[notadj]

Where did you read that?

notadj

[kinky69]

Red Raw @ docks in melbourne January
Mardi Gras @ Fox in Sydney
kate Monroe saw her in the side room at Salt, playing with David Morales

[kinky69]

Also at the Greenwood, North Sydney on Boxing Day.

[buda]

besides the utter crap *kinky69* posted in general

how fucking funny are the 4 sydney djs that she thinks are talented:

*Alex Taylor, Nick Skitz, Nick Fish and Jumping Jack*

Sweetheart, with the possible exception of alex taylor, they play utter cheese shite. Your taste is obviously in your arse. How dare you judge our wider scene from such a narrow & fucked up perspective. If that is what you want to see more of in Sydney, then I am delighted you are not impressed.

I have never paid more than $55 for a local party either, but I regarlay find extremely good quality cutting edge new music in Sydney up to a max cost of $15. Where does this $55, $65 & $90 rubbish come from. Scantly ? Kinky?

If 'as you say Sydney dj's are still stuck in the 90's' then I think you must be stuck in a parallel dimension.

[Chab]

Too much back pedalling already.. kinky/scantly ?? & if your point was about prices and not simply giving sydney djs shite, then why mention them at all ?

[Naitch]

Ok someone needs to get this thread back on track. The Naitch is always up for a challenge so hear goes!!

My thought is technichaly they are probably no better than the talent in our own backyard. What they are though is exposed. They have a public persona, it is almost in some instances 'cant miss' type stuff. Sure you have heard it all before "Sasha's in town I cant miss that!" Why? Its not like you dont have all his CDs or seen him 3 or 4 times before?? The perception that is built is not soo much for his (undoubted) ability, it is more for the happening and the being there it self.

Local DJs very rarley hold or have that appeal, hence the clamour for the imports.

Make sense??

[trist]

Enough of this Sydney Vs Melbourne cr4p. In my experience Melbourne mostly enjoys there techno, Sydney there house and trance.

Nik Skitz? WTF!! Cmon, i try not to pay out other peoples music too much but Nik Scitz? R u delusional?

Trist.

P.S Hey smuph, do you know a girl called danielle? I am one of her friends. I met you very briefly at renaissance.

[magic15x]

I'm sorry but you are a tool jayblue - PVD was amazing at QBH in Melb last time he was here, sure the Syd show received lame reviews and I will admit it sounds and looks from the SOS photos that he didn't really care but at the Melb show he was jumping around and smiling like crazy, he NEVER does this! The crowd was buzzing and going crazy all night! He even played almost 90 mins over his allocated set time!

Where's Helen K aka PVDFAN - she will back me up on this...

[miss apple]

I really don't understand why melbourne people must always resort to completely bagging out Sydney (offending the many people who choose to live here for many reasons other than the music scene) yet Sydney people are open minded enough to accept that the two cities offer different things to different people.

@!#$ off back to Melbourne with your small minded rude offensive comments. We don't need you here. Thank you.

[kitch]

I have lived in Sydney my whole life

I have never been opened minded about melbourne:)

I never believed melbourne offered anything really

I have been down there for the big day out and clubbing twice

Its NOT A CITY!!
how could you say Melbourne a CITY

Its a town

PVD rips !!!!

PVD was not happy playing SOS end of story!!!

how do I know ??? HE TOLD ME

Deviant again told me this weekend

[Polecat]

back on topic...

for me 2 events put it all in perspective. I paid big bucks last year to see Oakenfold +Chicane at the Docks, and much less to see Digweed in January at the Chevron.

The Oakenfold gig, i was very dissapointed. IMHO a crap track selection that just didnt hold my interest or inspire me to dance for most of his 3 hr set. I wandered off to hear Breeder instead. He was pretty good, but the locals rocked my night.

Then Digweed....my faith in International DJs restored. I was treated to some of the best music I have ever heard in my life. Smoooooth mixing, great set structure, sooo many new tracks....it was the *best night of music i've ever heard*. A killer 5 hr set!

I think what i experienced at Digweed is what we go along to hear.....You wont get it every time, but when you do...it rocks your world! :)

[MC-LOSTY]

I think its just the way we r here , alot of promoters dont support the local talent, its hard 4 our stars 2 rise!!!! alot of punters r 2 blame 2 , the dont even know who half these DJs from overseas r untill they read about them in the 3d, then they hype em up 2 look good in front of there mates.Its like anything made in oz is wack, n anything from overseas "must b good" , its the americanised culture we live in!!!! I know just from MCing how "non open" some of the minds in oz can b!!! its like alot of people r jelous of others n dont wanna c em come up!!!!! lets get over it!!!
much love 2 Donnie Emmini hes opened sum eyes!!!!!

[little devil]

Yes but losty you are being totally hypocritical! You write as if you are some "wack ass @!#$ nigga". You're not! This isn't America, you can write and speak normally.

If you think it is bad that we don't support locals then why are you trying so badly to immitate something which is not a part of our culture? What type of a world fo you want? One where we become our own little America? Where everything looks and feels like the States, everyone speaks like Americans, yet we only rely on our local talent?

[buda]

word to miss apple

[dirty mexican]

i've found that the internationals actually worth watching tend to come out before they're huge and play in smaller clubs for a decent price- they're still ripping @!#$ up and prepared to take risks, and above all that the big name aussies tend to kick the @!#$ out of most of them on the night cause they're trying so hard to impress the man of the moment.

as for syd vs melb- i grew up in outback qld till i moved to bris and then syd, and until you've lived in a town where the only "nightclub" plays wall to wall top40 with some hi-nrg thrown in for good measure and wall to wall moleskins topped of with flannies and akubras - SHUT THE @!#$ UP BITCH AND SIT YOUR PUNK ASS DOWN!!!! cause you dont know what a bad night is....

and a thought for melb people- if syd were such a shithole why would people be prepared to put up with the high cost of living etc??

[stylustrouble]

speaking as someone just arrived in oz from the UK I have to say there are some great local DJs that I've heard(and many more that I haven't yet) but because of the size of Australia and it's geographical distance from Europe and the US(the main producers of dance music) it makes it so much more difficult for local DJs to get that International recognition that,for example,a UK DJ gets.
also,I guess it's the same everywhere really.....people prefer the assurance of a "name" DJ before they'll go out and it does seem that Oz is guilty of this big style.rather than posting messages like this you sj\hould be out there supporting your own,or even better....do it yourself!!

[skywalker]

miss apple, are you married?

[kahlua]

I agree totally with you there Kitch.

I went down to Melbourne two years ago. Its just like a mini city (ie NOT AS GOOD!) I thought it was funny how particular streets in Melbounre resembled entire suburbs of Sydney (like Brunswick St/Newtown..)

In terms of clubs, sorry but melbourne people cant dance, unless you call dancing with your back to the DJ and shuffling around with no hand movements at all !! and this is in a somewhat respected club, Salt.

The only thing I have noticed is that Melbourne sometimes get better lineups than Sydney (too tired to think of any examples atm) but basically Sydney kicks Melbournes little ass in many ways :)

my two cents for tonight :)
~kahlua

[skywalker]

who says that WE think the internationals are better? It is not us, the punters who are pricing these events so highly. I dont think that ticket price is a true reflection of the way we feel about our music. If i had my way FBS tickets would have been $15, unfortunately not the way the world works kiddies. Do you pay $80 a ticket to see an artist because you think that they are "worth it" ? speaking for myself id have to say no but its probably the only way you can see "insert name here" while they are in town. Monetary value is so irrelevant when it comes to a gig b/c im sure most people out there have had wicked nights for a minimal fee (groove) etc..A question of what youre looking for out of the night i guess......

as for melbourne.....i know its cold down there but can brain cells actually freeze? if sydney is so dead, what the @!#$ are you doing here wasting space at the bar or in the taxi queue or @!#$ knows where else? for melbournes sake i hope youre an exception kinky

[polarbear]

the instant you ask the question 'was it worth it' the chances are, that unless it's $15 it wasn't.

[Dj Pluto]

Local talent know their scenes quite well and the average punter who rocks up to hear one of their sets knows what to expect. Good local talent always has a following.

Big name International Dj's make a name for themselves through different scenes and gigs overseas. The international talent is great to hear when they encompass a sound or style not successfully championed by a good local dj.

I will always prefer to see local talent every time. I would only see an international dj if they have made their own tracks or can do something on the dex that local talent cannot. A la Carl Cox, Jeff Mills, Sasha and John Digweed etc...

Melbourne and Sydney are both great for their different sounds.

Peace :)

[jayblue]

"I'm sorry but you are a tool jayblue ..." delightful...where did I say anything about PvD - good or bad?!

Did you even note that I wrote: "Yes we’re often treated to some amazing stuff from overseas visitors."?

Read the editorial more carefully before you say something like that again. It was merely meant to provoke conversation (and promote the fact that we have great DJs here) rather than point finger at any one performance.

[spice_of_life]

this thread is awesome! and it's so old! i feel like sexy young 18 year old girl with perky breasts, in bed with woody allen... or something..

good read, anyway. ;)