Originally Posted by nickko View Post

Also, wasn't the decrease in Newcastle more or less in line with a statewide decrease in alcohol-related violence?

There was also quite a bit of anecdotal evidence about police dissuading people who had been involved in minor scuffles not to make a formal report so that there were fewer incidents recorded.

However, even if you accept that shutting venues earlier means that people aren't out and about late at night, it doesn't follow that this solves any of the problems currently identified, for the following reasons:

- 3 a.m. is an idiotic time to throw people out given that it is cab changeover time. Are venues going to be able to cover the costs of security, bar staff and so forth after 3 a.m. selling lemon squash? Think about the events you've been at which have closed down earlier than advertised because bar sales have been too slow, and tell me what you think the answer to that one is.

- The lockout zone is arbitrary and there are plenty of venues outside the zone which trade for extended hours, most notably the venues at the Star. If you get turfed out of the Cross at 3, then (after you've spent half an hour brawling while you wait for the cabs to change over) you can go down to the Star to get back on the turps.

- The lockouts would have done nothing to prevent the deaths of Thomas Kelly or Daniel Christie, who were both attacked before 11 p.m. If people start drinking earlier as the attackers of Kelly and Christie allegedly did, all this does is to move the problem to an earlier part of the night, when more people are out and about.

- The premise of shutting early is that people get continuously drunker while they are in a venue. As anyone who goes out clubbing knows, this is, for most people, nonsense. Many people who leave a club at 6 are no more drink than they were at 3, because drinking heavily kinda defeats the point of staying up late (and makes it hard to dance). This is part of an over-arching issue about policy being made for those who like up late by those who haven't stayed up late for 20 years.
But we're fools if we sit back and stare at the ground
While the weasels and analysts sing
If we want our place in history, we can't let the frustration
Drive us to fashionable drinking again