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Mixing on a big club system?

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Gunnie93 +

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Mixing on a big club system?
I've got my first few gigs coming up around town, pretty shitty one's, but it's something to start me off.
But what's the differences with mixing on a big club system compared to a house party or a home set up?
Any tips would be appreciated.
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seriously??

its louder

everything else is pretty much the same

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depends on the place but if they dont have monitors and have a crappy sound setup, be aware that the sound bouncing off the walls could be out of time
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No monitors = mix in your cans
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Well. It's a lot different from playing in your room. Make sure your monitors are loud...but not too loud (Try and keep a nice balance of monitor and headphone volume). If you hear the sound from the floor do not pay attention to it. It's usually about a half to a full second behind what is playing in real time. Pay attention to your cans and monitors and everything will be fine.

Even if it's not the flashest gig out there, you still get valuable playing experience with big sound. Enjoy it!
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If it's any consolation - I find minor imperfections show up less on club systems then at home on studio monitors. The main thing is to drop your first track and get into it and feel it - then enjoy the rest of your set. Don't worry about how it will sound different etc before the gig because you'll psyche yourself out. Just enjoy it.

Also try to keep your monitors as low as possible whilst still being able to clearly hear them. A lot of newbies (and I was once guilty of this as well) crank up the monitors so they are loud (too loud) and this affects your mixing a lot worse then having echo's and delay's in the club/system.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by NORBY

depends on the place but if they dont have monitors and have a crappy sound setup, be aware that the sound bouncing off the walls could be out of time

+1 had that more than once.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebrains69

Also try to keep your monitors as low as possible whilst still being able to clearly hear them. A lot of newbies (and I was once guilty of this as well) crank up the monitors so they are loud (too loud) and this affects your mixing a lot worse then having echo's and delay's in the club/system.

too true and you'll get hearing fatigue towards the end of your set, won't be able to hear clearly and start to sound sloppy or even shit

keep monitors low boys, it's not how hard you can go but how long you can last
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Really depends on what the clubs set up is some with have compresses and limiters on the sound system. Hopefully you have a monitor.

If you can have a listen to the floor and from the booth to try and hear differences between the floor and the booth so you dont turn your treble way up just coz you can hear it in the booth doesnt mean its not there on the floor
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club systems are very forgiving for slightly shabby mixing ... but if you do fukkup .... there's more people listening

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ebullience

If you hear the sound from the floor do not pay attention to it. It's usually about a half to a full second behind what is playing in real time.


I know everyone hates a know it all...

344metres/second = speed of sound

Therefore, the club would need to be 172 metres long(ie. 2 x 177m = 344m which would be the distance travelled by the sound there and back) for a one second delay.

That would be longer than 3 x Olympic Swimming Pools end-to-end.

Or halve that (ie. 86 metres long) for a 1/2 second delay.

Anyone played in a stadium?

I remember Hybrid's warm-up @ Gatecrasher in Homebush Sydney several years back where the delay off the back wall of the warehouse was horrendous.
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Quote:

Anyone played in a stadium?

I've played guitar in a little one.

It was a bitch, but a lot of fun!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrum

I remember Hybrid's warm-up @ Gatecrasher in Homebush Sydney several years back where the delay off the back wall of the warehouse was horrendous.

twotribes was just as bad... at about 4am when the room cleared out a bit the norwest guy monitoring took me about 2/3rds of the way back cranked the bass (with his wireless controller thingomajig) and it was the exact point where you had bass coming in both ears

I would guestimate the worst delay i've had is 1/4 beat.
step on my cubes.
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^yeah... I do assume that Spectrum realises that the waves can bounce off walls, etc, but all the same, the exaggeration is there.
I just wish that more clubs made sure that the mains were AWAY from the booth. I don't want them causing me to go deaf - I like my monitor and cans soft.
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would the sound signal leaving the mixer, going through the amps to the speakers be instantaneous? I'd imagine that would contribute to some delay as well.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ferretrock

^yeah... I do assume that Spectrum realises that the waves can bounce off walls, etc, but all the same, the exaggeration is there.


For sure.I was simply highlighting the what size room it would take for a 1/2 to 1 second delay.

In otherwords, even a half second is a bit extreme given the size of most venues.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ebullience

would the sound signal leaving the mixer, going through the amps to the speakers be instantaneous? I'd imagine that would contribute to some delay as well.


Analogue mixer -> analogue EQ -> analogue limiters -> analogue crossovers -> analogue amplifier -> analogue speakers = speed of light. ie. essentially zero delay.

Digital processing inserted into the signal path will incur delay, in particular look-ahead limiters, however negligible.

1 millisecond = around 34 centimetres, or the equivalent of the speakers being a foot a further way from you, or the room being 1/2 a foot bigger.

In otherwords, its negligible especially given that gear engineered for this purpose is going to be low-latency by design in the first place.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ebullience

It's usually about a half to a full second behind what is playing in real time.

Haha, i'f your playing in a club that between 75 and 150 meters long, lol
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man ive been in some clubs where the delay is years behind!!

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like, you were playing 'get shakey' and 'satisfaction' was banging out??
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Quote:

Originally Posted by manuka

like, you were playing 'get shakey' and 'satisfaction' was banging out??

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^^^Baha, gold
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omg were you there!?

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When playing on a big club system compared to bedroom or house parties, the biggest change a had to make was staying on top of EQ'ing, especially bass (or low frequency) switching. When I first played on the main stage @ Heat in Perth (now closed, but about to be resurrected as the Vila), I mistakenly had two tracks beatmatched, pretty much un-EQ'd, but each time the two kicks came around on top of each other, I thought the sound was going to literary going to bounce the decks of the stage. And even crazier with two basslines on top of each other. I know a good DJ should be EQ'ing on the mix regardless, but playing on a system like that, highlighted to me how essential it was to EQ in the mix.

I miss that system, best I've ever played on (I even preferred it to Ambar). Be interesting when it re-opens.
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big systems hide some mistakes (ie; little slips in the mix, etc), and make others worse like phasing, so your eq'ing is important and you want to have a good ear for when your beats drift out of phase (even though they're still in-time).

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I have been in clubs where the dance floor has all the speakers facing it, but the dj booth is behind the front speakers.

So mostly you hear the sound from the far speakers and whatever sound is bouncing off the walls.

It may not be a full second delay but the sounds that come through are very confusing to say the least.

- Picture this club has no monitors, DJ (will remained unamed) says that he removed the monitors because he always has to turn them down when people enter the dj booth.
- Told him he was a dickhead (i like clear monitoring/having headphones off as much as possible) And we usually brought in 8" monitors, which were a lil underpowered but atleast you heard what the dancefloor heard a little bit more clear.
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i prefer to mix in my headphones - dunno, personal preference i guess
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Monitors ftw, I find when I'm mixing in my cans that I will gradually turn the volume up on them throughout the night until they are at full bore - not good for your ears.
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With the actual quality of the speakers when a 320kbps song is playn and just say i want to add in a accapella which i recorded of a movie on my computer which is round 120kbps can u notice the difference in sound on big club system?
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if it's just an accapella, prolly not really. if it was a whole track t 128k then yeah you can definately tel the difference.

.WAV ftw!!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by manuka

keep monitors low boys, it's not how hard you can go but how long you can last

And keep you headphone volume low enough so that the monitor is the dominant sound!

Took over from a dude once who was mixing really badly, grumbling and moaning about not being able to hear anything...plugged in my cans and was almost deafened by how fucking load he had them...like 7/10 on the dial...of course you can't hear anything man, you cans are drowning out your monitor!



One of the best pieces of advice a mate gave me was to practice mixing with the lowest possible volume level...cleaned up my mixing heaps...if the headphones are too loud, it's like you're trying to match what's already playing with you next track, not match your next track to what's already playing (if that makes sense...he had a better way of explaining it, but it was all to do with the dominant sound vs passive sound...headphones = passive, monitors = dominant)
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi

Took over from a dude once who was mixing really badly, grumbling and moaning about not being able to hear anything...plugged in my cans and was almost deafened by how fucking load he had them...like 7/10 on the dial...of course you can't hear anything man, you cans are drowning out your monitor!

dude, perhaps he had a crappy pair of cans that have a lower output spl than yours??
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi

One of the best pieces of advice a mate gave me was to practice mixing with the lowest possible volume level...cleaned up my mixing heaps...if the headphones are too loud, it's like you're trying to match what's already playing with you next track, not match your next track to what's already playing (if that makes sense...he had a better way of explaining it, but it was all to do with the dominant sound vs passive sound...headphones = passive, monitors = dominant)

I'm going to give this a try. I find myself slowly cranking the tits out of both my monitors and cans. Becomes a problem living in an apartment building with paper thin walls.
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