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Beat Matching Acapella

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Dj Shuflz +

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Beat Matching Acapella
Forgive me i'm not a fluent user of these forums but i checked fairly thorughly for another post of a similar nature and was suprised to not see anything.
Anways to the point im looking for any advice on how to beatmatch an Acapella track when i dont have the original on hand to listen to the beats and cue. i must admit i hardly tried at all but it sorta seemed like i was getting no where fast so just wondering if any of you have any tips.
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learn the phrasing and then practise riding the fader to the right spot?
It's kinda nice to have some sort of beat somewhere in the acappela... there's nothing at all?
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some times there is but not in all, like i can distinguish fairly easily where the phase starts like where 1 kicks, but its just setting the pitch that i cant do without hearing a beat (admittadly i rely on bpm counter alot when mixing)
Another thing ive never been able to master is keeping loops in time, beacause the way i mix is set track one to just under 128bpm (127.9 or wateva) and track 2 as close to 128.0+bpm as i can that way wenever i hear them slipping i just pull track2's jog wheel back slightly. this may be considered wrong but thats just how i learnt, but when u loop a sample say from track 1 and ur using my method the rate at which u have to work the jog wheel increases so stuff flys off fast not exactly sure why well i have a fair idea just cant put it into words. any advice on that? (sorry to throw another question)
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B trim is your friend! Play around with the B point in the loop until you get it perfect, then worry about beat matching. If you get your loop just right then it shouldn't slip quite so fast.
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What is B-trim mate? from what i understand you are talking to just making the loop perfect and seemless? so its on beat... well even wen i was using the hot loop feature on my old decks (CDJ200s) the loop wud slide off quite fast
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Hmm interesting, anyone else got experience with pioneer's looping? On my Denons its just a matter of hitting b-trim and making it perfect manually instead - I don't have the luxury of hot loops. I'm pretty sure you can b-trim the CDJ1000 MK3, not sure about other models though. you'd think any CDDJ with looping functionality would have the ability to B-Trim.
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you can set them manually on the 200s i think but yeah i just recently got the 1000 mk3's but havent yet experimented with the looping. mainly becasue my exp with loops on the 200s left me a little gun-shy.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj Shuflz

some times there is but not in all, like i can distinguish fairly easily where the phase starts like where 1 kicks, but its just setting the pitch that i cant do without hearing a beat (admittadly i rely on bpm counter alot when mixing)
Another thing ive never been able to master is keeping loops in time, beacause the way i mix is set track one to just under 128bpm (127.9 or wateva) and track 2 as close to 128.0+bpm as i can that way wenever i hear them slipping i just pull track2's jog wheel back slightly. this may be considered wrong but thats just how i learnt, but when u loop a sample say from track 1 and ur using my method the rate at which u have to work the jog wheel increases so stuff flys off fast not exactly sure why well i have a fair idea just cant put it into words. any advice on that? (sorry to throw another question)

The fix for both would be to learn how to beatmatch properly.

Stick some gaffer over your bpm counters and get to work riding your fader.
Try mixing without touching the platters at all (not necessarily the best way to work, but if you practise that, then you can find a happy medium). Too many CDJ cats beatmatch very approximately and play with the platter far too often.
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ya makes sense but wen i lign it all up im only tapping the jog bakwards slightly like once every 32 beats i mean thts fairly on sync wouldnt you say?
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32 beats is pretty regular to me.
If you'd said 32 bars that would be closer to where I like it to sit.
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so house
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yeah na def dosent hold that long i mean the way i set it neways is always biased so deck 2 is faster because wen i was starting out i couldnt use the sound to distiniguish wot deck was too far ahead this way i always knew to just pull bak deck 2... anyways i think ill just play with the loop feature more and get it down pat, but that dosent really help me with my acapella unless i get the original version which is an effort
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^
I don't really have any straight-up accapellas - all mine are on the techier side and some sort of rhythmic or harmonic element to go by.
You could treat any record like this though, playing small sections of mainly solo instruments

edit: At TBD

Last edited by ferretrock: 25-Mar-09 at 12:26pm

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listen to the vocal
nod your head in time with vocal
drop beat in time with nod


get on the nod
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Why would you want deck 2 to always be faster?

@ TBD. Thanks for that
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Acapella's without an intro beat, or the orig mix before it, to match off can be a fucking challenge...even for people who've been playing for ages!

I've got this **** of a one which starts on the off beat like 6, 7, 8, 1 drop point 2...which seems simple, but fuck it's soooooo hard dropping it right as you're so used to dropping ON the 1, not fractionally after it. Makes me
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi

Acapella's without an intro beat, or the orig mix before it, to match off can be a fucking challenge...even for people who've been playing for ages!

I've got this **** of a one which starts on the off beat like 6, 7, 8, 1 drop point 2...which seems simple, but fuck it's soooooo hard dropping it right as you're so used to dropping ON the 1, not fractionally after it. Makes me

Never done this before but have you tried counting 7 7 8 8 1 1 *drop* 2 2 3 3 4 4?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ferretrock

Why would you want deck 2 to always be faster?

@ TBD. Thanks for that

nod comment was for shuflz but you are welcome yo
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Quote:

Originally Posted by seanious

Never done this before but have you tried counting 7 7 8 8 1 1 *drop* 2 2 3 3 4 4?

Will give it a try...it's one of those pesky ones without any intro beats to match off either...have never had any luck trying to play the bugger!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedbydesign

listen to the vocal
nod your head in time with vocal
drop beat in time with nod


get on the nod

pretty muchh
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If you have to ask - don't bother. You're not ready yet. I have never found acapellas hard to mix. Just sing (in your head) the acca over the song you're going to drop and match the pace.
And by definition; an acapella won't have a beat or melody to help you - it is just the vocal. My advice would be to play around a lot. Don't try 110bpm hip hop over 128bpm house - try an acapella of 1 song you would normally play over another song you would normally play. If you're still not hearing it maybe it's just not for you - but it's certainly not difficult.
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Cheers TBD,
Ferretrock, the Deck 2 faster thing as i explained above was just how i learnt to disdinguish wot deck was going too fast that way wen i was jogging i wasnt jogging the wrong one and throwing it way out, i just find it easy to keep on beat that way all i have to do is tap deck 2 back a little each time.

to:littlebrains
It woud be difficult for me mixing acapellas first of all first time im trying it, secondly i made the mistake of learning to beatmatch with the counter so i just need to train the ear alittle more.
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^Okay - Well as I said - You'll now have to untrain yourself to do what you've done, before you can match an accapella in. You've made yourself disabled, you see.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebrains69

And by definition; an acapella won't have a beat or melody to help you - it is just the vocal.

Well no shit, sherlock...the point is, that usually when they come in record form, you have the full track as track 1 on the plate, acapella as track 2...beat match the track, then skip to the acapella to drop that.

And I've even got some which have a 4 bar high hat intro to use as timing before the acapella drops

But yah for you that you're so freaking awesome at...congrats, you're a real star
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Lmao, why didnt i think of doing this before, adding a metronome with sony acid, just have to spend a little time beatmatching the metronome but then problem solved
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Kiwi

Well no shit, sherlock...the point is, that usually when they come in record form, you have the full track as track 1 on the plate, acapella as track 2...beat match the track, then skip to the acapella to drop that.

And I've even got some which have a 4 bar high hat intro to use as timing before the acapella drops

But yah for you that you're so freaking awesome at...congrats, you're a real star

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferretrock

It's kinda nice to have some sort of beat somewhere in the acappela... there's nothing at all?

^Was referring to this actually.

And because the O.P. is talking about BPM counters, jog wheels and his CDJ's I'm assuming he isn't buying records. Also stating he doesn't have the original, I think it's safe to say he can't simple switch to b-side.

But I'm glad you also find me so awesome - if you would like you can subscribe to my newsletter.
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lol...love to!

I'm figuring if he's playing CDs, using a beat counter, has acapella without orig track, it's probably illegally downloaded anyways!
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^That was more my thought.
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Most likely - but I also have a few acca's that I don't have the original track.

One good example would be this slice: http://www.discogs.com/Various-Acape...elease/1118481

It's just a 12" with 22 odd acapellas and I do have a few of the originals but still play a fair few of the others that I don't.

I guess what I was trying to say is to concentrate on beat matching more and worry about acapellas when you don't have to think about it - you can just hear and feel it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebrains69

Most likely - but I also have a few acca's that I don't have the original track.

One good example would be this slice: http://www.discogs.com/Various-Acape...elease/1118481

It's just a 12" with 22 odd acapellas and I do have a few of the originals but still play a fair few of the others that I don't.

I guess what I was trying to say is to concentrate on beat matching more and worry about acapellas when you don't have to think about it - you can just hear and feel it.

I want those acapellas

@Random_Kiwi: Just on that counting thing what I should of said you should try is 7 and 8 and 1 and *drop* 2 and 3, easier then 7 7 8 8 1 1
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i'm no fucking pirate!, my cousin left me a old school cd of some acapellas since he's overseas for the next year.
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give the man a break, i dont mix acappellas, never tried, but i can imagine trying to beatmatch one without a beat underneath might be a little tricky!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj Shuflz

It woud be difficult for me mixing acapellas first of all first time im trying it, secondly i made the mistake of learning to beatmatch with the counter so i just need to train the ear alittle more.

Sorry if i sound like a dick, but what you're doing is not beatmatching. Stop with everything else and learn to do that first.
Sure some things will be out sometimes but having to worry about adjusting with the platter every 32 beats would be taking u too much time. After you can do that you will find accapellas much easier.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebrains69

Most likely - but I also have a few acca's that I don't have the original track.

One good example would be this slice: http://www.discogs.com/Various-Acape...elease/1118481

It's just a 12" with 22 odd acapellas and I do have a few of the originals but still play a fair few of the others that I don't.

I guess what I was trying to say is to concentrate on beat matching more and worry about acapellas when you don't have to think about it - you can just hear and feel it.

Oh yeah - true say... I forget that I don't visit the "DJ Tools" section at the record store, but there are often plates with a dozen accapellas on there.
Usually not tunes I've got any interest in though (either top40 or pop-dance).
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How do you guys use accapellas when your mixing live? I haven't actually played with them that much but I was thinking it'd be a useful tool to keep the crowd involved. Like when you have an instrumental part of a track/instrumental track/long mix you could drop like 32 bars of "Now the love is gone" or some cheese to keep everyone keen? Or do you just use them for mash ups?

I need to get some accapellas to experiment really

/end
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My fav is putting well known, older/classic house-ish acapella's over dark, nasty, thundering techno or breaks

Marcus Nikolai - Bushes
Derrick Carter - Where U At? (As I stop, and take the time, to inventory, the inside of my mind...)
PQM - U R Sleeping
DJ Gregory - Tropical Soundclash
ATFC - In And Out Of My Life
KoT - Finally
Adam Freeland - We Want You Soul

things like that...good fun, surprises people and can keep people interested who aren't so heavily into the sound being played.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi

My fav is putting well known, older/classic house-ish acapella's over dark, nasty, thundering techno or breaks

Marcus Nikolai - Bushes
Derrick Carter - Where U At? (As I stop, and take the time, to inventory, the inside of my mind...)
PQM - U R Sleeping
DJ Gregory - Tropical Soundclash
ATFC - In And Out Of My Life
KoT - Finally
Adam Freeland - We Want You Soul

things like that...good fun, surprises people and can keep people interested who aren't so heavily into the sound being played.

Niceeee, do you get most of your accapellas on records/digital or CD?

Sorry to hijack I'm just really interested in the topic and I need to start working on becoming a proper DJ with skills (chicks love guys with skills) as opposed to a beat matching jukebox.
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Most of them I ripped from my records...left a stack of record back in NZ, so recorded the track, then the acapella after it, of some of my fav ones...was really handy when I was mostly playing records...2 decks as beats, CDJ as tools...drop a track, beat match the next one, beat match the acapella, drop new track, drop acapella and start in on beat matching the next track...kept me nice and busy and sometimes even dropped the acapella's over a mix to keep even myself on edge! haha

But now that most of what I play is on CD, if you only have 2 CDJs, it puts you really under the pump to mix in a new track, match the acapella, drop it and get it back out again with enough time left to match and mix your next track.

3 channels FTW!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi

Most of them I ripped from my records...left a stack of record back in NZ, so recorded the track, then the acapella after it, of some of my fav ones...was really handy when I was mostly playing records...2 decks as beats, CDJ as tools...drop a track, beat match the next one, beat match the acapella, drop new track, drop acapella and start in on beat matching the next track...kept me nice and busy and sometimes even dropped the acapella's over a mix to keep even myself on edge! haha

But now that most of what I play is on CD, if you only have 2 CDJs, it puts you really under the pump to mix in a new track, match the acapella, drop it and get it back out again with enough time left to match and mix your next track.

3 channels FTW!

Hehe yea thats what I was getting too, my setup is 2 TTs (hooked into Serrato, my vinyl collection is small) with 2 CD-Djs, CDDjs used as tools just like you described.
I was hoping I could get some accapellas from the interwebs (legit) or on CD. Most accapellas are on records from what I can see however.
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Beatport, Genres, DJ Tools (they list any loop sample/acapella type thing as a DJ Tool)

Loads on there...happy sifting!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi

Beatport, Genres, DJ Tools (they list any loop sample/acapella type thing as a DJ Tool)

Loads on there...happy sifting!

Yay, something for me to do next time I can't sleep/at home on weekend

I might just buy accapella record compilations and rip them, will probably be easier then digital digging.
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acapellas4u.co.uk - is one of the best known NON-legit sites but sometimes you don't have a choice if you want the acpaella. So I play by the law: If I've bought the original, I can steal the acapella. Which is wrong, but more right then just stealing it.

But on most digital download sites like beatport, traxsource, juno, trackitdown etc you can find most of the acapellas you're after as apart of the original E.P.

Just go to the site and search for the song you want and more than likely you can find the acapella
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i am agreeing with the sentiments of kiwi and littlebrains.

i wish i had 3 channels just for acapellas - like kiwi was saying, so you can drop the acapella on the one of the track youve just mixed into.

at the moment, i'll mix so that when I completely swap over to track B from track A, its the start of the breakdown. that way you have a bit of time to get it beatmatched and then drop on the one.

getting em in and out at good times is the hard part....
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ps. don't try mixing an acapella if you don't actually know the song...

but if you know it, you can just sing it in your head in time to the music..
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This thread is quite helpful, anyway we could link it in one of the stickys?
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cant be fucked reading it all...


but ive got 200s too. to adjust the B trim of a loop, you hit the 'IN' button at the beginning of the loop, and 'OUT' as near to perfect as you can. if it's off, you hit 'OUT' again. the loop with keep playing, but you can adjust the end point by moving the jog wheel.

and if you keep spinning it anti-clockwise, you can create a pretty cheesy build. go wild ; )
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cant be fucked reading it all...


but ive got 200s too. to adjust the B trim of a loop, you hit the 'IN' button at the beginning of the loop, and 'OUT' as near to perfect as you can. if it's off, you hit 'OUT' again. the loop with keep playing, but you can adjust the end point by moving the jog wheel.

and if you keep spinning it anti-clockwise, you can create a pretty cheesy build. go wild ; )
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sorry for double post. my housemate downloads too much porn i think. fucked up the connection hardcore (pun intended.. haha)
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