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Do you guys normalise?

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ABitPatchy +

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Do you guys normalise?
I'm am about to start burning my music collection for DJ purposes and I have heard both positive and negative arguments for normalizing my MP3 collection.

What side of the fence does everyone fall on?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ABitPatchy

I'm am about to start burning my music collection for DJ purposes and I have heard both positive and negative arguments for normalizing my MP3 collection.

What side of the fence does everyone fall on?

It's not hard to judge the volumes yourself... Don't do it, you'll end up a better DJ if you learn how to work without it.
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Yeah I was doing it today, you feel alot more control as well.

Just after some general opinions.

Thankyou for the response!
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YOU CAN NORMALIZE TRACKS?! FUCK! I've been doing so much editing to my tracks and I never once thought about making them all the same level. Golly garsh darnit!


Good idea tho.
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Yeah there is no point if you are DJing, mind you a couple of times i have thrown a cd on in my car on the way home and the differences where really annoying, won’t do that again!

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normalising will generally lower the volume of all your tracks. i burnt heaps of tracks a while back and didnt realise normalise was on. had to burn them again because they were way quieter than the rest of my tracks.

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I normalise and add compression too sometimes.. That is off course if i am ripping my vinyl to mp3. I dont add any effects or extra eq when recording. Try to make rip as close to the vinyl copy and then if needed Normalise and also add Wave l2 compression.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by johns1000

I normalise and add compression too sometimes.. That is off course if i am ripping my vinyl to mp3. I dont add any effects or extra eq when recording. Try to make rip as close to the vinyl copy and then if needed Normalise and also add Wave l2 compression.

compression is the absolutely worst thing you can add to a finished, produced and released track.

i will say that again.

it is the WORST thing you can do to a finished track.

since ripping CD's is illegal, i would suggest that you leave your audio tracks on the CD's you bought them on and buy a bigger CD wallet.

oh, and since you'll probably ruin the quality in converting it, that might also be something else to consider.
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its very minimum compression mate..
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

compression is the absolutely worst thing you can add to a finished, produced and released track.

i will say that again.

it is the WORST thing you can do to a finished track.

since ripping CD's is illegal, i would suggest that you leave your audio tracks on the CD's you bought them on and buy a bigger CD wallet.

oh, and since you'll probably ruin the quality in converting it, that might also be something else to consider.

I think he's talking about recording vinyl to MP3, not CDs.
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if its for djing, dont normalise, just use the gains.
if its for listening to as general cd, normalise
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When recording your Vinyl to WAV/MP3s, why would you even need to normalise the tracks???
Use the gain to set your output level to the same for each track, record, and low and behold, they'll be recorded at the same level!

Or just record them ar Zero Db as they're pressed and gain accordingly when playing the CDs...much like you do when playing records.

Debate seems pointless...as does compressing a completed track!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by WADZA

normalising will generally lower the volume of all your tracks. i burnt heaps of tracks a while back and didnt realise normalise was on. had to burn them again because they were way quieter than the rest of my tracks.

you had your normalizations settings wrong..



I tend to Normalize all my tracks that I rip off vinyl..

I use soundforge or Bias Peak Pro to record (Depending on what computer I am on at the time).
I use a vestax PMC 07 mixer (Which I know is not the best choice, but it's what I've got), and keep the DJ mixer levels only very slightly bouncing into the first red LED

With soundforge, I usually have to normalize a track in the range of +15% - +23% - Sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more
It's usually a little trial and error, and I've got used to knowing by the size of the wave form.

Very occasionally, some tracks do come out quieter than the original recording - In which case I usually have to increase the percentage I normalize by a little more..



I tend to like my wavs looking something like the above after I normalize. Nice peaks and valleys, and nothing is over compressed,

I know that if you rip a track from a CD, you tend to get a waveform that almost looks like a brick - I do not like this at all! While it seems to be the prefferred method for engineers these days, to push everything so far into the mix that you lose any subtlety within the track, I much prefer leaving sounds generally in their place (ie - quieter parts of the track remain quiet, and are not pushed up so dramatically).

Be carefull with your gains on the DJ mixer, as these tend to exaggerate any eq you have on the mixer: for example, If you have a little treble turned on, and also a fair bit of gain you are infact loudening the treble more than you realise. So for this reason I prefer to keep my gains turned off, leaving the signal to the computer as pure as possible, and do any processing to the sound after it has been recorded. For this reason, I also tend to leave any EQ on the dj mixer off as I record.

Ideally, you want to record with a turntable pre-amp, and bypass those nasty DJ mixers entirely. Most DJ mixers (apart from some of the more expensive highend ones) generally sound fairly crappy, and have nasty eq's and gains. If you can take this out of the recording equation entirely, then you will be generally getting a much pure recording (less "stuff" for the sound to travel through before it's recorded by your computer).

So there you have it - Yes, you can, and probably should apply some normalization to your tracks before you convert them to MP3 - Just be carefull how much you apply. It will be a little trial and error for each track.
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Last edited by forenzik: 24-Jun-09 at 09:49am

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I'll bring the volume of any tracks that i get that are unusally low in volume, but it doesnt happen often.

Other than that i dont normalise...
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I'll do it if the volume of the original is ridiculously low. i.e., having to turn the gain knob to 90%.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

compression is the absolutely worst thing you can add to a finished, produced and released track.

i will say that again.

it is the WORST thing you can do to a finished track.

since ripping CD's is illegal, i would suggest that you leave your audio tracks on the CD's you bought them on and buy a bigger CD wallet.

oh, and since you'll probably ruin the quality in converting it, that might also be something else to consider.

hear hear!

i wouldn't recommend this unless the track is well below the ceiling (say like up to -10db) and you can't just use your mixer gain knobs to make it louder.

in that situation i recommend applying a hard limiter. set the ceiling (i.e. limit/max amplitude) to -0.1db for example, and then boost the volume (input) by however many decibels you need until the track reaches the limit, but without it actually compressing it too much.

here's a screen shot of the hard limiter in audition so you know what i'm referring to.

http://recordrestoration.com/img2.gif
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if you insist on normalising, dont let shitty burning software do it. i burned a heap of tunes on my housemates pc coz my burner died. didnt realise ashampoo was set to normalise.

all my tunes sounded fucking terrible, had to smash the gain up and the waveforms were barely visible on cdj-1000s. that was a shit set

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Quote:

Originally Posted by forenzik

I know that if you rip a track from a CD, you tend to get a waveform that almost looks like a brick - I do not like this at all! While it seems to be the prefferred method for engineers these days, to push everything so far into the mix that you lose any subtlety within the track, I much prefer leaving sounds generally in their place (ie - quieter parts of the track remain quiet, and are not pushed up so dramatically).

what was the term? loudness wars?

fucking pop music! one of the reasons i can't listen to today's pop music is that it's so compressed it ends up either hurting the ears or just annoying the hell out of me. the dynamics of a tune just completely go out the window, especially if it's played on radio where even more compression gets applied. aaaagh!!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by rancho

if you insist on normalising, dont let shitty burning software do it. i burned a heap of tunes on my housemates pc coz my burner died. didnt realise ashampoo was set to normalise.

all my tunes sounded fucking terrible, had to smash the gain up and the waveforms were barely visible on cdj-1000s. that was a shit set

definately - I'm pretty sure most burning software allows you to apply normalisation - But as a rule, make sure this is turned off, and instead apply normalisation through your wave editor of choice - this way you can control how much you apply.
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Just be aware that normalising everything to the same db level in a wave editor will not make them all the same perceived volume.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by brendanClay

I think he's talking about recording vinyl to MP3, not CDs.

oh, I'm sorry, because ripping vinyl is far more legal than CD's.


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Quote:

Originally Posted by johns1000

its very minimum compression mate..

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