When you get to the intermediate stage, programming matters. A lot.

i liked it when yani came in asking for advice, and less than 2 weeks later started offering advice to lifting/training veterans

Gains does not = size/weight for everyone yani. They're talking about improving lifting which requires, funnily enough, lifting.

On phone, trying to find an excellent article I read recently on muscle growth. This will have to do for now.

The difference between sarcoplasmic muscle growth (the fluid in the muscle, or the 'pump') vs myofibrillar growth (actual increase in the density of muscle tissue). Explains why size doesn't always equal strength.

http://www.naturalremedyhealth.com/v...an-muscle-grow

Thanks for that, I've known about them before, but never had a good article like that I can show other people.

and another

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/art...le-growth.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by yani_s

if anything diet>>>lifting in terms of guts

fyp

Quote:

Originally Posted by didjeridude

@bulldozer, I think pretty much most "bodybuilding" programs were developed by steroid users. When you inject a steroid hormone exogenously you completely bypass the normal physiological response and thus maintain an anabolic hormonal profile regardless of whether your workouts incorporate full body compound lifts. It been shown time and time again that the biggest increases in testosterone result from doing compound lifting. So imo, the best way for a non-steroid user to put on size is to build their program around compound lifting first and then go from there. You should do squats (or any variation of) OR deadlifts (or any variation of) or both, in every workout you do.

If I wanted to put on mass (which I personally don't however), but if I did, and I was doing a 4 day split, I would do something along these lines....

day 1
Squat
Horizontal push (ie: bench)
Accessory

Day2
deadlift
horizontal pull
accessory

Day3
Squat
Vertical push
accessory

day 4
deadlift
vertical pull
accessory

The reps look fine, but the important thing is to keep the rest between sets pretty short. You could also use ascending or descending variations such as 4,6,8,10 or 10,8,6,4 or pyramids such as 10,8,6,8,10 -> 8,6,4,6,8 -> 8,4,3,4,8 if you're looking for strength AND size.

The other thing that is important is to keep the workouts very dense ie: don't spend time fluffing around between sets and exercises. Get in, bang out the intensity for about an hour, get out. Smash your BCAAs and whey like its going out of fashion during and after every workout, but wait until after before adding dextrose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PandaMonium

@ bulldozer

In addition to what Didj said i would question why you need to bench so much.

I would simply things even furher if you are going for the size and strength trade off. in the short term they are incompatible goals in the long term they become unintentionally compatible.

i would look at this:

Day1. DL/ Mil press/ vert pull/ D/L accesssory
Day 2. Conditioning -
Day 3 Bench/bench accessory/horizontal pull. Add +20% volume for pulling movements.
Day 4. Conditioning - Moderate
Day 5. Sqwatzz, heavy abs, biceps
Day 6 conditioning -
Day 7 Active recovery/restoration/rest.

Volume modulation;

W1 High
W2 Medium
W3 Very high
W4 Deload.

At the end of the day, everything works... for a period of time until you adapt.

I'm gonna be basing my weekly split and routine very closely to the above two posts. Cheers guys. Have found over the last few months that gains in strength aren't really progressing as how I think they should be with my current split of one muscle group per session.

Started yesterday with deadlifts, squats, linear leg press, military press, bent over laterals. doms are in full effect today and I feel great. Also, yesterdays session was the most I've sweat in the gym this year

What kind of angle do you guys have your toes pointing when doing squats? I've found if I try to keep them relatively straight they twist outwards (penguin-style) towards the bottom of the squat and end up at a pretty wide angle on the way up. I know SS talks about having a 30 degree angle for your toes, but I feel like mine are getting closer to 45 I had a training buddy telling me that I should use the leg press machine to build up some strength before going back to squats. Not really keen on that idea.. but don't want to keep pushing if I'm going to hurt myself.

So what's your stance like?

Your feet shouldn't move during the squat... Also it depends on the person. I have bowed legs so my feet tend to point a fair way outwards, and I have a pretty wide stance so I go ass to grass.

How wide apart are your feet? What's your hip flexibility like?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict

Your feet shouldn't move during the squat... Also it depends on the person. I have bowed legs so my feet tend to point a fair way outwards, and I have a pretty wide stance so I go ass to grass.

Further than 30 degrees do you reckon? My feet only move when I try to squat with my toes pointing further forward, I guess they just want to be outwards. I think its also because I'm concentrating on shoving my knees out, maybe this is dragging my toes outwards also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poondaddy Shortbread

How wide apart are your feet? What's your hip flexibility like?

Feet are approximately shoulder width apart. Hip flexibility isn't great.. come to think of it, none of my flexibility is that great...

My feet are normally a bit wider than shoulder width, probably have toes pointed about 45 degrees out. Are you squatting below parallel?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poondaddy Shortbread

My feet are normally a bit wider than shoulder width, probably have toes pointed about 45 degrees out. Are you squatting below parallel?

Yep, focusing on getting down to below parallel. Will try with my feet a bit wider and see how I go.

Post a form check video.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdoofus

Yep, focusing on getting down to below parallel. Will try with my feet a bit wider and see how I go.

Make sure that you're doing a full range of stretches for your lower body too. Best not to take any shortcuts on this part either. Glutes, hamstrings, calves, quads, hips and ankles. Doing the type of stretching in the link below really helped me get down to and below parallel while keeping my back in the correct position.

http://www.allthingsgym.com/2011/10/...weightlifting/

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdoofus

What kind of angle do you guys have your toes pointing when doing squats? I've found if I try to keep them relatively straight they twist outwards (penguin-style) towards the bottom of the squat and end up at a pretty wide angle on the way up. I know SS talks about having a 30 degree angle for your toes, but I feel like mine are getting closer to 45 I had a training buddy telling me that I should use the leg press machine to build up some strength before going back to squats. Not really keen on that idea.. but don't want to keep pushing if I'm going to hurt myself.

So what's your stance like?

Hard to know for sure without video, but it sounds like classic adductor tightness/glut inactivation couple. During a regular squat, if your knees roll inwards (internal rotation of the femur), then your tibia rotates outwards which causes the outwards twist at the feet. Do more dynamic stretching of your groin and include goblet squats in your warm-up (the very first picture in the link dbushy posted above). Add in glut activation work like single leg squats and deads. Start using a band around knees when you squat regular and push those muthas OUT. Get a new training buddy who isn't a leg pressing girl. If all that fails, nail your feet to the floor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdoofus

What kind of angle do you guys have your toes pointing when doing squats? I've found if I try to keep them relatively straight they twist outwards (penguin-style) towards the bottom of the squat and end up at a pretty wide angle on the way up. I know SS talks about having a 30 degree angle for your toes, but I feel like mine are getting closer to 45 I had a training buddy telling me that I should use the leg press machine to build up some strength before going back to squats. Not really keen on that idea.. but don't want to keep pushing if I'm going to hurt myself.

So what's your stance like?

have you got better shoes yet? have you been doing mobility work? have you been doing lots of air squats?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdoofus

Yep, focusing on getting down to below parallel. Will try with my feet a bit wider and see how I go.

put some weight on the bar next time. pretty hard for your feet to move with 315 on the bar

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...tt-lift-bridge

Do these to warm up with as well mcdoofus.

My warm up usually consists of http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...ont-leg-raises , but I do the sideways variant, then I do some front and side lunges to loosen up the quads/hip and the groin, and then finally some bodyweight goblet squats. Usually gets me pretty warmed up to squat heavy - I haven't done a mischief on my legs since I started that routine. I'm probably going to add in those bridges as well because my gluts were getting a bit sore with heavier weights, working overtime.

your feet should be angled out. don't worry about trying to point toes forward unless you start doing geared lifting...

I'v actually lost wight since i started smashing the gym, but all my lifts have increased?

I know the culprit is 7 hour shifts with no break where I can't eat so I'v started bringing in 1L of milk to smash behind the bar instead of redbull/coffee/coke,

really just find it hard to have a consitent eating program with my unplanned life,

oh well

Quote:

Originally Posted by pEAkeR_hAT

really just find it hard to have a consitent eating program with my unplanned life

you can't blame your problems on your parents.

lol^

Thanks for all the responses

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbushby

Make sure that you're doing a full range of stretches for your lower body too. Best not to take any shortcuts on this part either. Glutes, hamstrings, calves, quads, hips and ankles. Doing the type of stretching in the link below really helped me get down to and below parallel while keeping my back in the correct position.

http://www.allthingsgym.com/2011/10/...weightlifting/

Thanks for this - I feel like if I am getting below parallel I may be losing the curve in my back at the last moment. Will give these a shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by didjeridude

Hard to know for sure without video, but it sounds like classic adductor tightness/glut inactivation couple. During a regular squat, if your knees roll inwards (internal rotation of the femur), then your tibia rotates outwards which causes the outwards twist at the feet. Do more dynamic stretching of your groin and include goblet squats in your warm-up (the very first picture in the link dbushy posted above). Add in glut activation work like single leg squats and deads. Start using a band around knees when you squat regular and push those muthas OUT. Get a new training buddy who isn't a leg pressing girl. If all that fails, nail your feet to the floor.

Ahh yes I remember the goblet squat from SS, didn't know that's what it was called. Should you be aiming to get your knees shoved out that far during an actual squat or is it just designed to stretch and loosen up the muscles?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rancho

have you got better shoes yet? have you been doing mobility work? have you been doing lots of air squats?

Wearing shoes a bit like these:



I have been doing those stretches you showed me, plus the odd air squat and goblet squat (though I could certainly do more).

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

put some weight on the bar next time. pretty hard for your feet to move with 315 on the bar

Yeah I figure this is part of the problem, but want to get form perfect before throwing 315 on there

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...tt-lift-bridge

Do these to warm up with as well mcdoofus.

My warm up usually consists of http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...ont-leg-raises , but I do the sideways variant, then I do some front and side lunges to loosen up the quads/hip and the groin, and then finally some bodyweight goblet squats. Usually gets me pretty warmed up to squat heavy - I haven't done a mischief on my legs since I started that routine. I'm probably going to add in those bridges as well because my gluts were getting a bit sore with heavier weights, working overtime.

Nice one, cheers, will give these a crack today.

Off to the gym! Will post a form video in a week or so once I get used to the movement a bit more.