griggle,

maybe at the desktop level, I tend to deal at the large enterprise level, especially at the integration of disparate technologies bit.

9 times out of 10 when there is a problem, it is actually the technology (the implementation thereof, random boundary conditions, poor design or specification, lack of proactive monitoring and maintenance, uncontrolled promotion of untested code or libraries, weird issues caused by technology stack upgrades, etc) that causes the problems. Users should not be able to bring down enterprise systems, and shouldn't be blamed if they do.

oh yeah, and IT has sent me to Dublin, Amsterdam, Santa Barbara, Philadelphia, Sydney so far this year, and Singapore, Atlanta, Tokyo coming up in the short term, and probably some more trips to the States on top of that.

Eddie, let me know where they are planning on putting you in SF (ie. down in Silicon Valley, or in SF itself) I have ze tips on awesome craft brew bars.

Will do, I'm shadowing one of the Aus/NZ dudes before I head to the US start of July most likely I reckon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle

See the thing is, people working in IT know that computers do exactly what the user tells them too.

So that means that 9 times out of 10 when there is a "computer problem" what that really means is that there is a "user problem."

So if you are a fuckwit that has regular "computer problems" (PEBKAC) it's likely that IT staff you deal with have said something like "Oh yeah that's a problem with the software" when in fact what they really meant was "How can you be so fucking stupid? You keep fucking this up exactly the same way and never realise that is always your own fucking fault for being a waste of DNA that can't follow instructions. Eat a bag of dicks."

They are just humouring you as that's the best way to deal with special needs clients as you are too stupid to learn from your mistakes.

Oh I don't have many regular problems, I'm the super user for our database and generally help people with basic problems.

Most issues I come up with turn out to be fundamental errors that have nothing to do with me. That's because I am capable of using my own common sense + google.

Quote:

Originally Posted by big eddie

IT is sending me to San Franciso in a cutla months and with any luck Vegas later in the year.

I'm glad I'm not good at life.

I was talking to Ian! Rude person.

You're not good at spelling that's for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz

No responsibility?

Depends on whether or not you care about what you do - same as in any job really.

Do customer service people have any responsibility?

I haven't noticed IT people having much responsibility - oh sorry your computer is broken? It's the computer's/software's/your fault. Oh and even though the stuff we sold you doesn't work, you'll have to pay us to fix it for you. It's called "having your cake and eating it".

Not saying there aren't bad teachers but when you care about the kids there's quite a lot of pressure that you put on yourself. As there is in any role - it's all about how much you care.

Yes both my parents are teachers but that doesn't give me a bias so much as it gives me first-hand experience of what it's like to care about kids and the pressure that comes with it.
There's also shitloads of pressure around results - in the UK we've had school tables for years and all the teachers are under massive pressure to deliver results, quite hard when you can't make your class be more intelligent (unlike in IT where you just buy better computers/more RAM/better software etc). It'll be the same here soon with school tables being public knowledge.
Watching my parents around results time put paid to any thought that there's no responsibility in teaching!

My dad was meant to retire 2 years ago, he's still working on contract at 68, the contract is almost up and he's now approaching every school in the area offering his services. He's not doing it for his health, and it's definitely not the money, it's because he loves teaching and he feels very responsible towards the kids he teaches.

jesus christ. it was a joke. not an invitation for you to share your life story.

Yeah agreed DDB, but I was figuring that someone saying that 90% of IT staff's job is just make excuses for stuff not working was speaking from an end-user perspective whose perspective of IT is the helpdesk guy that comes and gets the malware of their computer every time they download amputee midget porn.

If dubz was referring to Enterprise level stuff he'd probably have said "90% of IT Staff's job is writing annoying technical documents for me to read detailing risk, planned changes, tracking problems, recommending maintenance, etc."

Because of course IT staff are only working when they are interacting with non-IT staff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle

Because of course IT staff are only working when they are interacting with non-IT staff.

the rest of the time they're posting on itm like everyone else duh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianwil1976

I'm looking again. My company's getting worse and worse, expecting it to go belly up within 6 months, maybe less.

WOOHOO

Can send you more job openings if you want, mango.

Just can't remember which areas were good/bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle

Yeah agreed DDB, but I was figuring that someone saying that 90% of IT staff's job is just make excuses for stuff not working was speaking from an end-user perspective whose perspective of IT is the helpdesk guy that comes and gets the malware of their computer every time they download amputee midget porn.

If dubz was referring to Enterprise level stuff he'd probably have said "90% of IT Staff's job is writing annoying technical documents for me to read detailing risk, planned changes, tracking problems, recommending maintenance, etc."

Because of course IT staff are only working when they are interacting with non-IT staff.

If you IT lot were any good you'd be able to ensure that my amputee midget porn was malware-free.

Thanks heaps, man, that'd be much appreciated!

I'm looking anywhere now tbh. After travelling to and from Parramatta everyday for a few months, nothing really seems that bad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz

Oh I don't have many regular problems, I'm the super user for our database and generally help people with basic problems.

Most issues I come up with turn out to be fundamental errors that have nothing to do with me. That's because I am capable of using my own common sense + google.

I bet you're the kind of person who clicks OK on error messages without noting down any detail whatsoever before calling IT

Dubz while you are here, what do HR staff do apart from handing out security passes and introducing us to the person from the department that's hiring who will conduct the technical interview?

I ask on behalf of a mate who works in Marketing who is worried that he might not have chosen the career with the least amount of work in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle

Dubz while you are here, what do HR staff do apart from handing out security passes and introducing us to the person from the department that's hiring who will conduct the technical interview?

I ask on behalf of a mate who works in Marketing who is worried that he might not have chosen the career with the least amount of work in it.

Well they also ask for security passes back. And do the first day orientation - after all, if no-one tells you where the toilets are, you might take a poo in the pot plant.

HR involves a lot of work, mostly because being an interfering busy-body with a superiority complex can be quite exhausting all on it's own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan-b

I bet you're the kind of person who clicks OK on error messages without noting down any detail whatsoever before calling IT

But then I'd be doing their job for them, which would be ridiculous. Anyway they can just open one of those "chat windows" and ask my computer what's wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz

But then I'd be doing their job for them, which would be ridiculous. Anyway they can just open one of those "chat windows" and ask my computer what's wrong.

Ah right, I also bet you're the kind of computer "expert" that somehow always manages to make things worse.

And the kind of expert who thinks putting in a new server is a matter of signing a bit of paperwork, plugging it in and away she goes.

Little tip, try and make friends with your IT guys, tell them they're appreciated. As a rule of thumb, outside of senior executives the staff who treat IT like people and not like an autonomous service generally get better service than those who think we owe you for the honor of fixing your computer.

I spend half my life trying to turn IT into an autonomous service.

No Shell Access. No Cron. Automated Alerts and Recovery. Deep Dive Heuristic Problem Predictors. Centralised Log Management. Fuck off and die low level sysadmins, you are being deprecated #maniacal-laughter

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan-b

Ah right, I also bet you're the kind of computer "expert" that somehow always manages to make things worse.

And the kind of expert who thinks putting in a new server is a matter of signing a bit of paperwork, plugging it in and away she goes.

Little tip, try and make friends with your IT guys, tell them they're appreciated. As a rule of thumb, outside of senior executives the staff who treat IT like people and not like an autonomous service generally get better service than those who think we owe you for the honor of fixing your computer.

As I've previously discussed with my IT guys, "worse" is very much an individual opinion and that maybe I liked my computer better with malware.

Also everyone knows that you also have to turn the server on, I'm informed this is the tricky part that requires someone earning $50 an hour to turn off my internet for 3 hours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618

I spend half my life trying to turn IT into an autonomous service.

No Shell Access. No Cron. Automated Alerts and Recovery. Deep Dive Heuristic Problem Predictors. Centralised Log Management. Fuck off and die low level sysadmins, you are being deprecated #maniacal-laughter

Yes, those are all definitely words *strokes chin thoughtfully*

yep, but words that I think most people reading at the moment could understand without a thesaurus

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRZA

sidebar: can we get a hand count on how many of our mom's are teachers? would explain so much.

HI! .. also my mum taught me in grade 3.

Must've been some awesome propaganda going around in the 60s telling people that teaching was The Job Of The Future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618

yep, but words that I think most people reading at the moment could understand without a thesaurus

A thesaurus? Not a dictionary?

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_e_de

HI! .. also my mum taught me in grade 3.

Must've been some awesome propaganda going around in the 60s telling people that teaching was The Job Of The Future.

Just like in the 90's how IT was the job of the future

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bism

Your entire understanding of IT is level 1 helpdesk aka the guy you call when you can't understand your internet aka Bede.

Not anymore thankfully. Suckeeerrrssss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz

Then you must stand out from the other morons. Well done.

Mostly I find IT is useful for someone who isn't very good at life, because they get to sit in a corner and whilst they might get shouted at now and again, mostly they can blame other factors and collect their paycheck without too much fuss.

Y'know the most annoying thing about IT? People that don't have a single clue about using a computer properly (in 2012). Thank god employers mistake my enthusiastic condescending sarcasm as politeness otherwise I'd have no perceived people skills.

If IT support were mechanics, every conversation would be this...

Customer: My car isn't working and I need you to fix it immediately, this is an emergency

Mechanic: Alright sir what seems to be the problem?

Customer: I don't know, I tried to use my car on friday and it didn't work, now it's monday and I need to get to work and I can't and this needs to be fixed right now.

Mechanic: Can you start the car? Can you even get into your car? Does it make any sounds when you try to start it? Are all 4 tires there?

Customer: I don't know, I don't know what any of that stuff means, I tried to get to work and it wouldn't let me and you need to fix it now because you changed my oil 6 months ago.

Mechanic: Alright well what kind of car are you driving?

Customer: I don't know, a green one, why does that matter?

Mechanic: Please take a look at the back of your car and see if there are any letters or numbers that would indicate a vehicle model or manufacturer

Customer: Ok, my car is a SV2 87K.

Mechanic: No sir that's your license plate. My records indicate that you drive a Nissan Altima, can you confirm that the key you're using to try and get into this car says Nissan on it?

Customer: My key says Lexus but I don't see how that makes a difference, I've been using this key on this car for years and it's always worked, what did you do to my car?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz

A thesaurus? Not a dictionary?

I don't know, why don't you use a thesaurus to tell me?

Oh yeah back to the subject of mum teachers, my mum is a teacher too.

When I was in year 8, she got put in charge of computer classes for her year 9's despite being completely computer illiterate (she was a Maths, Science and English teacher so they figured she could work it out ), so I wrote her lesson plans for her in exchange for ice cream.

I'm sure she worked hard when she was told to teach stuff she understood though.

Sucked in all those year 9's thinking they were getting educated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by big eddie

If in doubt, blame oracle.

Nah man, IBM.

Spoiler:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618

very

over 45 plants in 17 countries, around 35k employees,

Not allowed to own any plants in South Australia now eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_e_de

Not anymore thankfully. Suckeeerrrssss.



Y'know the most annoying thing about IT? People that don't have a single clue about using a computer properly (in 2012). Thank god employers mistake my enthusiastic condescending sarcasm as politeness otherwise I'd have no perceived people skills.

If IT support were mechanics, every conversation would be this...

Customer: My car isn't working and I need you to fix it immediately, this is an emergency

Mechanic: Alright sir what seems to be the problem?

Customer: I don't know, I tried to use my car on friday and it didn't work, now it's monday and I need to get to work and I can't and this needs to be fixed right now.

Mechanic: Can you start the car? Can you even get into your car? Does it make any sounds when you try to start it? Are all 4 tires there?

Customer: I don't know, I don't know what any of that stuff means, I tried to get to work and it wouldn't let me and you need to fix it now because you changed my oil 6 months ago.

Mechanic: Alright well what kind of car are you driving?

Customer: I don't know, a green one, why does that matter?

Mechanic: Please take a look at the back of your car and see if there are any letters or numbers that would indicate a vehicle model or manufacturer

Customer: Ok, my car is a SV2 87K.

Mechanic: No sir that's your license plate. My records indicate that you drive a Nissan Altima, can you confirm that the key you're using to try and get into this car says Nissan on it?

Customer: My key says Lexus but I don't see how that makes a difference, I've been using this key on this car for years and it's always worked, what did you do to my car?

hahaha gold, did you make that up or did you copy it from somewhere? If so, does this website have other humourous writings.

Reminds me of when I used to work for Renault on customer service:

Cust: "Hi my car's broken down, it's in it's warranty and I need a courtesy car"
Me: "Ok what's happened to it?"
Cust: "It's a diesel and I put petrol in it"
Me: "I can't give you a courtesy car for that"
Cust: "Why not?"
Me: "Because the warranty covers faults with the car, not the driver"
Cust: *angry words, heavy breathing*

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618

Eddie, let me know where they are planning on putting you in SF (ie. down in Silicon Valley, or in SF itself) I have ze tips on awesome craft brew bars.

you could've just posted them on here

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_e_de

If IT support were mechanics, every conversation would be this...

also you'd press START to STOP your car ahahahahahaha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle

so I wrote her lesson plans for her in exchange for ice cream.

"okay class, now open a program called 'CounterStrike'..."

It's stolen from Reddit. Just happened to be on the front page today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz

Why?

I have yet to hear an IT say "I fucked up". It's always the fault of the technology. Bad workman...tools....etc etc

Most of the shit that breaks here is due to people not even in the company.

The other day, someone put one of these...



Through a few hundred of these...

stop trying to shift the blame crabman, if you did your job properly that shouldn't affect service at all

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle

Dubz problem here is his only meaningful interaction with IT staff is probably when he has a problem with his computer.

See the thing is, people working in IT know that computers do exactly what the user tells them too.

So that means that 9 times out of 10 when there is a "computer problem" what that really means is that there is a "user problem."

So if you are a fuckwit that has regular "computer problems" (PEBKAC) it's likely that IT staff you deal with have said something like "Oh yeah that's a problem with the software" when in fact what they really meant was "How can you be so fucking stupid? You keep fucking this up exactly the same way and never realise that is always your own fucking fault for being a waste of DNA that can't follow instructions. Eat a bag of dicks."

They are just humouring you as that's the best way to deal with special needs clients as you are too stupid to learn from your mistakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618

9 times out of 10 when there is a problem, it is actually the technology (the implementation thereof, random boundary conditions, poor design or specification, lack of proactive monitoring and maintenance, uncontrolled promotion of untested code or libraries, weird issues caused by technology stack upgrades, etc) that causes the problems. Users should not be able to bring down enterprise systems, and shouldn't be blamed if they do.

Nearly all of those are people things though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz

I'm the super user for our database

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabman

Nearly all of those are people things though.

He's right, users shouldn't be allowed to bring down enterprise systems.

Unfortunately in most places I've worked at (which is a grand total of 2 in the past 7 years ) it's crappy IT policies (or lack there of) or lack of understanding of systems by the senior IT management who make the policies rather than the grunts who have to enforce them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B_e_de

Not anymore thankfully. Suckeeerrrssss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle

Oh yeah back to the subject of mum teachers, my mum is a teacher too.

When I was in year 8, she got put in charge of computer classes for her year 9's despite being completely computer illiterate (she was a Maths, Science and English teacher so they figured she could work it out ), so I wrote her lesson plans for her in exchange for ice cream.

I'm sure she worked hard when she was told to teach stuff she understood though.

Sucked in all those year 9's thinking they were getting educated.

was probably an improvement on anything we were taught.. The only thing I can honestly remember from our secondary computer classes were a few dumb acronyms:

WYSIWYG
GIGO
GUI, etc;

..and some pretty rudimentary BASIC code which I'd already picked up on from toying around with qbasic nibbles + gorillas.

Spent a lot of time in those classes creating genuine looking troll/hoax programs (eg, format and disk read a/r/f prompts) or shit that made the computer look like it had corrupted/shat itself (ascii randomisation with a 'XX GOTO 10' or other odd patterns)

Yeah from what I remember the class involved learning to program turtle graphics in Logo (I kid you not) so I don't think anyone learned anything from it either.

Funnily enough I got 100% for it the next year (with a different teacher) though.

I made a choose-your-own-adventure using HyperCard. It had dragons AND guns. Fuck yeah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan-b

He's right, users shouldn't be allowed to bring down enterprise systems.

Unfortunately in most places I've worked at (which is a grand total of 2 in the past 7 years ) it's crappy IT policies (or lack there of) or lack of understanding of systems by the senior IT management who make the policies rather than the grunts who have to enforce them.

Which category does "fork in server" belong to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy

Which category does "fork in server" belong to?

Brillian.. Well done

I was standing outside minding my own business when my 6th sense (or possibly my 7th) suddenly alerted me to the fact that there was an opportunity to give you a hard time. You can't ignore those warnings.

sorry, did someone write something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabman

I made a choose-your-own-adventure using HyperCard. It had dragons AND guns. Fuck yeah.

Yes
YES

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy

I was standing outside minding my own business when my 6th sense (or possibly my 7th) suddenly alerted me to the fact that there was an opportunity to give you a hard time. You can't ignore those warnings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianwil1976

Thanks heaps, man, that'd be much appreciated!

I'm looking anywhere now tbh. After travelling to and from Parramatta everyday for a few months, nothing really seems that bad

Just sent through a couple

Just saw 'em, dude! Cheers!

Just about to bail so will look properly tomorrow, first one seems pretty promising

You're a legend, appreciate it

What happened in here....

I've got an Intermediate level Web Developer role in Perth

http://www.seek.com.au/Job/asp-web-d...burbs/22256333