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Instances of police brutality and other illegal acts [by police]

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Dubz, the difference is that I don't post comments like this:

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Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

If anyone wondered about whether or not Aborigines believe they somehow have the right to act badly because of their race THIS IS THE PROOF THEY DO.

I'm quite happy to post comments on things that I'm not an expert on or haven't experienced if I maintain a level of objectivity and empathy about things.

I don't see that same restraint in your posts in this thread.
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lordy Dubz I thought yours were the musings of an immature teenager, but you're 30 years old.

Last edited by mischa21: 26-Apr-12 at 05:00pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fewsion View Post

Dubz, the difference is that I don't post comments like this:



I'm quite happy to post comments on things that I'm not an expert on or haven't experienced if I maintain a level of objectivity and empathy about things.

I don't see that same restraint in your posts in this thread.

I would take this seriously, but I've read your comments in the infamous 911 threads that you keep starting up.

So....yeah. Lols all round really.
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Originally Posted by mischa21 View Post

lordy Dubz I thought yours were the musings of an immature teenager, but you're 30 years old.

Indeed I am. Did you honestly think I was a teenager? I mean, how did you explain all my comments about work and stuff?
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okay before you (anyone) post, reread your comment and determine if it is actually related to the topic, and not painfully inane chatter. If it is then rephrase to make it relevant, or I will delete it
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Indeed I am. Did you honestly think I was a teenager? I mean, how did you explain all my comments about work and stuff?

Teenagers could probably handle working at a recruitment agency no? Hardly the stuff of geniuses.

Anyhoo, would you want to qualify this rhetorical question with some other knowledge that's relevant?

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Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

From the age of EIGHT apparently. Fuck me. How bad do you have to be as a parent for your child to be known to the police from the age of 8??

The police probably know many youths before their adolescent years - children from foster homes, victims of abuse, those who may not have had the probable stable upbringing that we've all had. No one's trying to excuse their behaviour, but to make sure that a child who's been known to police since he was eight doesn't fall further foul of the law later in life, wouldn't it be useful to look at what's going wrong in his community, in his family, or indeed in society, to be assaulted once detained by a police officer when you've just been shot at? I would think that these are relevant and important questions to want to have answered.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Davomaxi View Post

Also neither Sheehan or any OTT police supporters seem to have any answer to punching a subdued suspect several times in the head while they're already on the ground?

Neither does Dubz, other than to say it's got nothing to do with anything.
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Originally Posted by moojins View Post

Neither does Dubz, other than to say it's got nothing to do with anything.

Sorry, I thought I'd already said that I thought that he deserved it.

I support the police giving a guy who just ran over a woman a tap and no, I don't care that he had already been shot. Being shot doesn't automatically incapacitate you, from the video it looks to me like he was resisting arrest and needed to be subdued.

The police were understandably pumped up with all the shootings, in fact I imagine they were pretty surprised to find out that the criminals were young Aborigines as they were on high alert for a big biker shoot-out. Maybe in a less pressurised environment they wouldn't have taken those exact actions, but I don't care that they did.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fewsion View Post

Teenagers could probably handle working at a recruitment agency no? Hardly the stuff of geniuses.

Anyhoo, would you want to qualify this rhetorical question with some other knowledge that's relevant?



The police probably know many youths before their adolescent years - children from foster homes, victims of abuse, those who may not have had the probable stable upbringing that we've all had. No one's trying to excuse their behaviour, but to make sure that a child who's been known to police since he was eight doesn't fall further foul of the law later in life, wouldn't it be useful to look at what's going wrong in his community, in his family, or indeed in society, to be assaulted once detained by a police officer when you've just been shot at? I would think that these are relevant and important questions to want to have answered.

I'm not answering the first part as it's got bugger all to do with this discussion.

I agree that we need to look at what is going wrong in the Aboriginal community and why senior members of the Aboriginal community are so unwilling/incapable of condemning the actions of their own. People like Mick and Anthony Mundine are destroying their people's chance of improving their place in the world and I'd like to know why they are doing it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

I'm not answering the first part as it's got bugger all to do with this discussion.

I agree that we need to look at what is going wrong in the Aboriginal community and why senior members of the Aboriginal community are so unwilling/incapable of condemning the actions of their own. People like Mick and Anthony Mundine are destroying their people's chance of improving their place in the world and I'd like to know why they are doing it.

I did stoop to your level with that first part, call it even I guess.

I don't think there is a connection between the two whatsoever. The at times idiotic ramblings of Mundine have no bearing on the actions of underprivileged sections of the indigenous community. I also think it's a bit far fetched to argue that when he opens his mouth that he is cruelling their chances of "improving their place in the world". Let's agree that when social services, police and whoever else investigate what went wrong in this instance, then they're not going to even remotely consider Mundine or other senior Aboriginal members of the community (are there any others?) who have commented on this matter.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Indeed I am. Did you honestly think I was a teenager? I mean, how did you explain all my comments about work and stuff?

it's precisely your comments about stuff that make me question your age.

As Fewsion mentioned, the environment is very important. Police/lawyers/psychologists/social workers will examine the boys environment because it plays a massive role in shaping people's behaviour and decisions. you can't say it's not important.

It doesn't excuse the behaviour, but helps us understand it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by mischa21 View Post

it's precisely your comments about stuff that make me question your age.

As Fewsion mentioned, the environment is very important. Police/lawyers/psychologists/social workers will examine the boys environment because it plays a massive role in shaping people's behaviour and decisions. you can't say it's not important.

It doesn't excuse the behaviour, but helps us understand it.

I agree that the environment has an impact, the dysfunctional Aboriginal community has to share a huge proportion of the blame for producing these kind of people and encouraging this sort of behaviour. Because we can finally start talking about the problem without ridiculous claims of racism?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fewsion View Post

I did stoop to your level with that first part, call it even I guess.

I don't think there is a connection between the two whatsoever. The at times idiotic ramblings of Mundine have no bearing on the actions of underprivileged sections of the indigenous community. I also think it's a bit far fetched to argue that when he opens his mouth that he is cruelling their chances of "improving their place in the world". Let's agree that when social services, police and whoever else investigate what went wrong in this instance, then they're not going to even remotely consider Mundine or other senior Aboriginal members of the community (are there any others?) who have commented on this matter.

I don't agree that they won't consider that. And if they don't they're missing the fact that when presumably respected members of a community refuse to speak out against bad behaviour and instead focus their rage on the people who put a stop to the behaviour, it creates a terrible environment for impressionable young people.

Imagine if, at school, your parents continually took your side against the teacher, even when you were being a little shit in class. Would that have allowed you to grow up to respect authority? No.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

I don't agree that they won't consider that. And if they don't they're missing the fact that when presumably respected members of a community refuse to speak out against bad behaviour and instead focus their rage on the people who put a stop to the behaviour, it creates a terrible environment for impressionable young people.

Imagine if, at school, your parents continually took your side against the teacher, even when you were being a little shit in class. Would that have allowed you to grow up to respect authority? No.

Agree to disagree. For a start, he has condemned their behaviour, both on his Twitter page and in the media. In fact, his Twitter page is a better indicator of his opinion rather than a smh.com.au piece by a conservative like Sheehan which you've based your opinion on. Second, talking about Mundine sidetracks important questions about the actions of the officers either before or after the car was stopped. Not questioning that sort of conduct would surely create an even more terrible environment would it not? The fact that you can ask these questions without being shot down as some sort of left-leaning, civil libertarian is good to show impressionable youth that the police are not a law unto themselves and that members of the public are sympathetic with offenders who have received inappropriate treatment from police. That's a pretty important message.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fewsion View Post

Agree to disagree. For a start, he has condemned their behaviour, both on his Twitter page and in the media. In fact, his Twitter page is a better indicator of his opinion rather than a smh.com.au piece by a conservative like Sheehan which you've based your opinion on. Second, talking about Mundine sidetracks important questions about the actions of the officers either before or after the car was stopped. Not questioning that sort of conduct would surely create an even more terrible environment would it not? The fact that you can ask these questions without being shot down as some sort of left-leaning, civil libertarian is good to show impressionable youth that the police are not a law unto themselves and that members of the public are sympathetic with offenders who have received inappropriate treatment from police. That's a pretty important message.

The police always conduct an inquiry after things like this.

The Greens and senior Aboriginals calling for an inquiry makes it sound like the police weren't going to do it, it made them look bad.

No-one was saying there wouldn't be an inquiry but the quotes from politicians and community leaders made it sound like the police had just gunned down two innocent boys and then refused to ask any questions about it.

I like to think that most members of the public would think that the boys were treated very appropriately.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

The police always conduct an inquiry after things like this.

The Greens and senior Aboriginals calling for an inquiry makes it sound like the police weren't going to do it, it made them look bad.

No-one was saying there wouldn't be an inquiry but the quotes from politicians and community leaders made it sound like the police had just gunned down two innocent boys and then refused to ask any questions about it.

I like to think that most members of the public would think that the boys were treated very appropriately.

Well whoopty do if they "looked bad"? They'd probably done enough to look bad themselves from their actions. These actions leads them to make a call for an independent inquiry, not a NSW Police inquiry. Not a ridiculous request at all considering an obvious conflict of interest.

Now if the public thinks the boys were "treated appropriately", good for them and you. Does that change anything? Trial by democracy?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fewsion View Post

Well whoopty do if they "looked bad"? They'd probably done enough to look bad themselves from their actions. These actions leads them to make a call for an independent inquiry, not a NSW Police inquiry. Not a ridiculous request at all considering an obvious conflict of interest.

Now if the public thinks the boys were "treated appropriately", good for them and you. Does that change anything? Trial by democracy?

Yes stopping a car that had just run down a pedestrian and was filled with drunk, high teenagers who'd just mounted the curb can, in a certain light, make the police look bad.

Like a very dark light. Because you'd be fucking blind.
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Their rally had 150 ppl precisely because most of Sydney doesn't care how you seem to over the welfare of these adult and minor criminals. It's trial by common sense, most people have been happy with how the situation turned out save for the few love taps, but most don't seem too concerned by them either because these people really aren't that deserving of sympathy for their reckless stupidity.

I think Fewsion you're emotions have been somewhat conflated by the offenders ending up worse off than the victims, the victims are the girls that were ran over btw. Had their been news footage of them in a bad way or one of them seriously injured or dead I'd be seriously surprised if you were still toeing the line and focusing on what you are now.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by walkdogz View Post

Their rally had 150 ppl precisely because most of Sydney doesn't care how you seem to over the welfare of these adult and minor criminals. It's trial by common sense, most people have been happy with how the situation turned out save for the few love taps, but most don't seem too concerned by them either because these people really aren't that deserving of sympathy for their reckless stupidity.

I think Fewsion you're emotions have been somewhat conflated by the offenders ending up worse off than the victims, the victims are the girls that were ran over btw. Had their been news footage of them in a bad way or one of them seriously injured or dead I'd be seriously surprised if you were still toeing the line and focusing on what you are now.

Damn good point. I was wondering the other day "what if the girl had been killed?" probably be a far different situation.

The results are not more important than the action.
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I don't know if Linda Burney is respected in the Redfern community - i sure respect her.
She spoke out about the matter early on in the commentary. No blame assigned.

From SMH:
She said glaring social problems such as poverty and homelessness were behind the issue, but also parental and community responsibility - or lack thereof.

''I'm desperately worried about the future of young Aboriginal people who are disconnected from the school system, disconnected from their culture.''
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Yes stopping a car that had just run down a pedestrian and was filled with drunk, high teenagers who'd just mounted the curb can, in a certain light, make the police look bad.

Like a very dark light. Because you'd be fucking blind.

You've closed one thread with base trolling like this already, why not go for another hey?
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http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-fac...506-1y76l.html

Oh NSW Police, you're adorable

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Originally Posted by RaVeR_SpIkE View Post

all i can say is fuck you ref you fuckhead

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That one looks very bad for the Police. Statement altering.. and it still doesn't match the footage.

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I don't go to be in the VIP area.. I don't need big breaks, a big song with a buildup and lights and smoke.. all you need is a kickdrum and a good bassline. You don't need any of that other shit. Na, I'm not going for none of those reasons.. I'm just going for the music.

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Come on. That's a little unfair on the police.

They had deputised that wall, and he clearly resisted the wall arresting him with his head. Repeatedly.
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How brazen and/or out of touch are the NSW police with public surveillance.
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Classic that they charged him first with assaulting police - and if this security footage didn't exist the guy would have had no recourse to deny it. Makes me wonder how many of these assaulting police / resisting arrest charges are fallacious.
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that's on some Rodney King shit

ie obvious crackhead

no but seriously did they drug test him? I await the media stories about how he was off his face and of no use to society anyway.

also, how well placed is that pylon hey? I wonder if the cops had any idea that was a 'black spot' for the CCTV
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^ Cynic

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Originally Posted by RaVeR_SpIkE View Post

all i can say is fuck you ref you fuckhead

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A friend of mine had an altercation early one morning with three guys being drunk nuisances on the street outside his house, they came off second best however one of them had a brother who was a local cop. They came for my mate a bit later-set the dog on him and opened up his forehead with their mag lite. Only cctv will ever make the news.
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Sif you wouldn't take that story to the tabloids.
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There is real irony in the number of incidents of police thuggery being captured by surveillance technology. I'm sure that's not how it was supposed to work.

That whole video looks pretty awful. It's such a shame that that footage comes from a dance music festival. I feel that quite deeply.
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The cops were still pumped up from seeing Skrillex, it's his fault really.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by walkdogz View Post

How brazen and/or out of touch are the NSW police with public surveillance.

See thats what I'm wondering. They're as stupid as the soldiers who continually take pictures of themselves doing stupid shit.
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See thats what I'm wondering. They're as stupid as the soldiers who continually take pictures of themselves doing stupid shit.

Dubz, that's the thing, we're not talking about the top end of the gene pool here, and it shows.
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See thats what I'm wondering. They're as stupid as the soldiers who continually take pictures of themselves doing stupid shit.

like like pissing on and posing with enemy corpses you mean?
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^ Possibly less stupid than doing the dance of the flaming arseholes in the mess one night. Oh my days that hurt and try explaining the burns to the hot nurse chick in the medical centre

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all i can say is fuck you ref you fuckhead

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like like pissing on and posing with enemy corpses you mean?

Yeah that. It's like, duh moron, just don't film it!!
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Murder by police caught on video. It's highly graphic with full sound.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/o...ackauckas.html
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Originally Posted by sydney3000 View Post

Murder by police caught on video. It's highly graphic with full sound.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/o...ackauckas.html

Or rather, murder in your opinion, given its not even gone to trial yet.

All I see is some cops trying to subdue a guy and it goes tragically wrong. I'll leave it up to the experts to decide on what it really was.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by lyric View Post

I don't know if Linda Burney is respected in the Redfern community - i sure respect her.
She spoke out about the matter early on in the commentary. No blame assigned.

From SMH:
She said glaring social problems such as poverty and homelessness were behind the issue, but also parental and community responsibility - or lack thereof.

''I'm desperately worried about the future of young Aboriginal people who are disconnected from the school system, disconnected from their culture.''

yeah big deal. colour of skin needs to be taken out of the equation and they need to be treated like young criminals and idiots. society can't save everyone, that's why we have jails. that's where they should be, end of story. For every sob story about being disconnected are success stories of others who grow up just as disadvantaged but who go on and become a stand up citizen.others become institutionalised in jails. that's life
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I don't think she was defending their actions, just highlighting the context of their behaviour. Understanding and addressing these issues hopefully means fewer incidents in the future.
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Originally Posted by buffed View Post

yeah big deal. colour of skin needs to be taken out of the equation and they need to be treated like young criminals and idiots. society can't save everyone, that's why we have jails. that's where they should be, end of story. For every sob story about being disconnected are success stories of others who grow up just as disadvantaged but who go on and become a stand up citizen.others become institutionalised in jails. that's life

Exactly, there are always little shits in life, giving them excuses for their behaviour doesn't help anyone, least of all the people who choose to live their lives as decent human beings I.e not running around with guns or running people over with cars.

Lets start worrying about the decent people rather than the people who choose (it's always a choice) to be wankers.
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I don't think she was defending their actions, just highlighting the context of their behaviour. Understanding and addressing these issues hopefully means fewer incidents in the future.

But none of these people ever say "this person was and is a **** and deserves to be locked up" its all "they're so disassociated from their culture" .."they've got such hard lives".

If the people trying to fix the problem would also acknowledge that some of the people they're trying to help are basically bad human beings then they might find a better reception.

I'm fed up with people ignoring the clear fact that some people are just bad and need to be kept away from decent society.
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Originally Posted by moojins View Post

I don't think she was defending their actions, just highlighting the context of their behaviour. Understanding and addressing these issues hopefully means fewer incidents in the future.

i have an issue with her comment that 'glaring social problems like homelessness and poverty were behind the issue'

it takes away from personal responsibility and looks to blame society instead. I don't cop that crap
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

If the people trying to fix the problem would also acknowledge that some of the people they're trying to help are basically bad human beings

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

i have an issue with her comment that 'glaring social problems like homelessness and poverty were behind the issue' I don't cop that crap


such rare insight you both possess, bravo
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Guy who copped the beat down from the 50 at the cricket ended up with a fine and conviction

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/you-lost-a...618-20jxm.html
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RIP Rodney King

watched a few riot videos yesterday in tribute

pretty funny stuff, the helicopter stuff is like watching an urban Starcraft
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Originally Posted by phelon View Post

Guy who copped the beat down from the 50 at the cricket ended up with a fine and conviction

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/you-lost-a...618-20jxm.html

Good to see that logic prevails and people are punished for being drunk and abusive and resisting arrest.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

i have an issue with her comment that 'glaring social problems like homelessness and poverty were behind the issue'

it takes away from personal responsibility and looks to blame society instead. I don't cop that crap

Whether or not you cop it doesn't change the fact that homelessness and poverty breed crime. You can lord it over them with your Greek work ethic or you can try and do something positive to help alleviate the problems which are cause crime. Or you could just complain on the internet or talk radio.
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