Researching DJ speaker setups for smallish (150 ppl or one bar in a pub) parties I found some old threads but none about what's available now...
So let's stay under a $2grand-ish arbitrary budget - what would you get and why?
I'd specially love to hear from Spectrum and Ferretrocks if you are across the market atm?

The state of the art is not available for anything like $2grand-ish. Sorry

I found the JBL gear to be great value for money. Pair of JBL PRX 12" and a Sub should get the job done.

do not get cheap mackie stuff..

i've been using QSC's for monitors at the club lately, really impressed with them.

and dont bother with JBL, horrid cabinets imo

I agree JBL are shit house. RCF FTW!

I don't think I have drawn the quintessential conclusion on what constitutes 'the best'. And this being especially true given subjective factors such as size preference and budget restraints.

And while I've been investigating these type of systems for purchase over the past year, and listening to these types of systems for the past 15 years or so, I still haven't ever been in the position of a side-by-side shoot out between different brands and models, together under the same roof. So to be fair my opinion is still pretty limited.



Anyway, with the disclaimer out of the way, this year I purchased a 2 x K10 tops and 1 x KW181 sub. And while they've only seen use so far at home (just wish the rooms were bigger to allow them to really shine) and for vocal speeches in a public hall to around 120 people (and that was with just one K10 plus a RODE condenser M2 mic, speaker to one side of the stage, sounding very natural and clear, and really demonstrating the advantage of the K10's wide 90 degree dispersion across a very wide stage/seating arrangement).

How much bass extension do you want? For most music, I'd absolutely recommend a sub. The bass is deeper, stronger, can be managed independently of the top boxes volume wise, as required to taste. And when running subs, 12" tops is arguably the maximum size one would ever require as the SPL will be more than sufficient, the dispersion across the room reasonable (just be careful to research carefully if wishing to run 2 or more top boxes side-by-side together as most aren't designed to run this way. Best to stick to a pair set up left and right, spaced apart). And with the high pass filter engaged, even an 8" driver will reach down to the 80Hz or so where the sub takes over. So what I'm getting at is, 15" top boxes when running subs really is just a waste of space and weight.

How much portability do you want? If not running subs, then 12" or 15" speakers are bigger (and can hold their own without a sub reasonably well), and you'll only have two of them to cart around. If running subs, then the top boxes can be smaller 10" or 12" (and lighter to get up on stands, pack in a car etc.), but then one has to cater for the size of the subs. Check the different sub brands and models. Some sub units are rather large, so getting even one into the back of a car with rest of the gear may be problematic. JBL PRX 618 XLF are bigger than QSC KW181, for example.

Budget? Double it and you'll have want you want. Though you could start with a couple of 12" boxes (or even just then 10s) and add the sub later. With active (built-in amps) I'd recommend matching a single brand for all components. That way there's no complication with not having the correct crossover parts (to stop bass from going to the top boxes when running the sub etc.) and the systems DSP delays are perfectly time matched for each box (typically 2 milliseconds).

Model? Well I chose QSC. JBL's PRX 6-series range do seem to be a significant step up from their previous 5-series and EON ranges. Yamaha DSR range have now been expanded, getting great reviews, with technology seemingly being passed down from the top-end NEXO PA kit (that Yamaha now owns), so there's plenty of options, but I guess that doesn't make the choice easy either.

- teknik (Dave) on ITM can get you the best QSC pricing (Store DJ in Sydney) I've seen in Australia. And QSC are offering 6 year factory warranties at the moment.
- http://www.swamp.net.au/ (from Canberra) has best pricing on speaker stands, cables, and connectors.

And if you do go JBL by chance, the XLF is the better of the two different PRX 618 sub versions, and someone's doing a reasonable good deal on them here: http://www.inthemix.com.au/forum/sho...d.php?t=305239

Hope that helps. You have no idea how keen I am to get my gear into a bar/pub/club type venue and really give them some juice. They were going to be used for a work awards night a month or so back, but ended up spending the weekend in hospital for observation following my daughters strange feinting episode. Anyway, I can keep you posted once I do get to play them out somewhere decent.

Thanks Spectrum for the most informative reply as usual...
Another thing been bothering me - at a party two weeks ago there was a setup with a couple of older subs and 4 tops in a bush setting a long way down the power poles but still on mains electrickery... when volume peakd a few times the whole system dropped out. Anyway the DJs organised for another system to get set up - allgedly it had some sort of capacitors within that charged whilst not putting out full power so that when it did peak it didn't need to put so much of a drain on the mains, if that makes sense... is that a relatively standard feature (if true) of more modern electronic-type speakers...? Not worried about this for a purchase, just interested if that was gospel or a load of bollocks?

Trying to get what's happening here. So you're suggesting the extension leads were super long and the 240 volts / 10 ampere mains supply sagged?

Normally, if the power feeding the amplifier should drop, or the requirements be exceeded, the waveform is clipped, the sound is then distorted, and there's serious risk of permanently taking out the speaker drivers, starting with the high frequency horns. But the music wouldn't cut out momentarily, only to return seconds (minutes?) later.

Was this an active system (ie. each speaker having its own built-in amp)? Or passive, requiring separate amplifer(s) with speaker leads running out to each un-powerered speaker box. I'm gonna guess it's the latter passive system. An active system would likely only drop a single speaker should there be issues, as each speaker with its own amplifier is working independently of the other.

Even active systems that have their audio leads linked together from one box to the next to distribute the line-level audio to each amplifier, should still be able to pass the signal through without cutting it off altogether even when it's own amplifier is switched off (or maybe not, if the high pass filtering is done for the top boxes via the sub, so killing the subs power may actually kill the signal to the top boxes - but that's a poor, non-failproof design IMO).

So assuming its a passive system with separate amps, I'm gonna then guess the system was simply turned up too loud for the task and/or wired incorrectly. Running 4 boxes off a single amp can run into problems if the amps not designed for it, leading to thermal shutdown for a few seconds/minutes. And then the subs too. Which makes me think there must have been a minimum of 2 x stereo amps (one for the top boxes and one for the subs), and then a crossover. Was the crossover a separate component? Was it simply losing power or poorly plugged in, so it ended up cutting the signal to the entire system?

Or was it all running from a power board whose 10amp breaker kept tripping?

Regarding amplifiers and capacitors, well all amplifier power supplies contain capacitors, and these are their a resource of power to be used as the amplifier requires, at all sorts of amplitudes (volumes) and frequencies (pitch). Otherwise, with just a mains power hooked up to a speaker (that could ever possibly handle the power) all that would be output is a straight 50 hertz hum.

It takes some serious amplification to sag mains power. For starters, audio is a logarithmic scale, so with minimal amplification, the system is already quite loud, but it takes doubling the amplification to gain just 3dB more, and double again for another 3dB and so on. So really a 2000 watt system is very rarely (if ever) hitting the maximum load from the mains. Music by its very nature is up and down, and so combined with this logarithmic phenomenon, one can safely run 2 subs and 2 top boxes from QSC's K or KW series (potentially 4000 Watts RMS), and not have a single drama from a 2400 Watt mains outlet.

Jester_Fu on ITM would be your authority on power amp electronics (he's an electrical engineer by trade), but my thinking the first system was hooked up incorrectly, or using too many speakers of each channel, or wasn't receiving enough ventilation, or using a dodgy power board, rather than simply pulling too much power from the mains that another system was able to avoid from the same mains system. Changing the system over probably removed the offending issue, but one can't blame it on the mains power, if the same mains power was still being used the second time around, and imagine how long an extended bass note might play for, whereas the capacitors will support the power amplifier for a matter of (presumably?) milliseconds before needing to be replenished by the mains.

Anyone else care to share what they know re caps in amps? Aside from they were a big fashion statement in car audio (though when there's just 12 to 14 volts to play with, getting thousands of useful watts out of car battery kinda needs some extra planning).

Wicked man - yes your assumptions about the setup are pretty spot on, so I suspect your conclusions were too- thanks again - truly informative

Quote:

Originally Posted by pomrocks

i've been using QSC's for monitors at the club lately, really impressed with them.

and dont bother with JBL, horrid cabinets imo

+1

They also have intrinsic conrrection of the horns via audio DSP algorithms which fixes the inherent frequency issues that all compression driver horns suffer from which is why they have a sweeter sounding top end.

6yr warranty and they're made in USA where as all the other rubbish like Mackie and JBL is made in China.

hmmm i do like my JBL's though id say get a pair of PRX 625's/635's and some XLF subs. That will cost over 2k though. I just got my 625's for $2799 total from DJ Factory.

2k is a small budget, normally i would keep clear of modern JBL, RCF, QSC ect but in your budget for new speakers the QSC is probably the best option!
Most of the time when i get a small budget for a venue i prefer to buy 2nd hand to save the money without compromising quality, eBay can be a gem some times!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurntableTech

6yr warranty and they're made in USA where as all the other rubbish like Mackie and JBL is made in China.

6 year warranty yes, but the QSC K & KW series is Made In China (and the JBL PRX series is Made In Mexico).

Surely the worlds leader in manufacturing can make decent electronics by now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrum

6 year warranty yes, but the QSC K & KW series is Made In China (and the JBL PRX series is Made In Mexico).

Surely the worlds leader in manufacturing can make decent electronics by now?

My K8's were made in the US. All the K and KW series for North & South America are made in Costa Mesa. Trust me I saw them being made at the factory last month.

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification. Given this is an Aussie forum serving predominantly the Aussie market, then the fact it's Made In China is a relevant claim.

And if you knew that, why did you put shit on "Made In China" products if that's the same "shit" QSC are dishing up for the Australian market?


From QSC themselves:
http://forum.qscaudio.com/forum/view...php?f=4&t=3611


Apr 18, 2011 - "The KW Series loudspeakers are manufactured in the US at the QSC factory in Costa Mesa, California."

May 22, 2012 - "Last year, to meet the growing demand for KW Series loudspeakers, we had one of our Chinese manufacturing partners start production of them, too. Those will serve the Asia Pacific markets and wherever else it makes sense to ship to from there. We're still manufacturing in Costa Mesa, California, as well, but we definitely needed the additional capacity."


And clarification on their amps is here:
http://forum.qscaudio.com/forum/view...php?f=8&t=2390

Well there you go. Explains why our AUD pricing is as close to USD price that I've seen - the labour and manufacturing is a fraction of the cost - which then suggests the AUD pricing could be cheaper still.

Is the quality any different (despite someone wondering about the quality control on the timber finish)? I'd like to see the two to compare, but somehow I doubt the difference would be clear.

Curious also, are the components themselves (speaker drivers, amplifier electronics) for the USA "assembled" boxes also "Made In USA", or do they end up being sourced by the same Chinese plants too?

For low budget speaker use. I now operate on a survival factor / return to investment output.
My original speakers were cheap behringers. These would muck up during extensive use, and did not survive the acts of people partying at events where there is lowish security and the speakers were where the general party could reach. If you put aside money made from gigs towards speaker costs, you will discover they will die after returning around 60-80% of the money spent.
My JBL speakers, while not the prettiest and best sounding, have had drinks spilled, people jump on them, fantastic bag & jacket holders while still playing music people can some what party to, and on a few instances people have thrown up on them, and passed out on them.
A quick wash and they have been good to go (after leaving a while for them to dry). Good investments while you raise funds for nicer setups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaggdoggz

on a few instances people have thrown up on them, and passed out on them.

Sounds like a fun crowd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrum

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification. Given this is an Aussie forum serving predominantly the Aussie market, then the fact it's Made In China is a relevant claim.

And if you knew that, why did you put shit on "Made In China" products if that's the same "shit" QSC are dishing up for the Australian market?


From QSC themselves:
http://forum.qscaudio.com/forum/view...php?f=4&t=3611


Apr 18, 2011 - "The KW Series loudspeakers are manufactured in the US at the QSC factory in Costa Mesa, California."

May 22, 2012 - "Last year, to meet the growing demand for KW Series loudspeakers, we had one of our Chinese manufacturing partners start production of them, too. Those will serve the Asia Pacific markets and wherever else it makes sense to ship to from there. We're still manufacturing in Costa Mesa, California, as well, but we definitely needed the additional capacity."


And clarification on their amps is here:
http://forum.qscaudio.com/forum/view...php?f=8&t=2390

Well there you go. Explains why our AUD pricing is as close to USD price that I've seen - the labour and manufacturing is a fraction of the cost - which then suggests the AUD pricing could be cheaper still.

Is the quality any different (despite someone wondering about the quality control on the timber finish)? I'd like to see the two to compare, but somehow I doubt the difference would be clear.

Curious also, are the components themselves (speaker drivers, amplifier electronics) for the USA "assembled" boxes also "Made In USA", or do they end up being sourced by the same Chinese plants too?

Drivers come from the one factory source. I'm pretty sure the amplifier modules are all made in the US, even in the China assembled version as QSC has all their switchmode power supply amps assembled on the US production line, even the GX7 from their cheapest amplfier range in made in US.

To my mind the China argument is no longer relevant as China is turning out a lot of the equipment we use, even some of the best gear is running on Chinese components.
These days i am more interested in the quality of the gear than the country it was built in and with all the bull shit specs manufacturers are throwing out there the only sure way to compare equipment is to buy one and see for yourself, hence the reason i am often listing almost new gear on eBay..

The difference is China has a wide range of manufacturing qualiy from extremely shit to very good.

I'm currently at the PALM Expo in China for 3 days and 80% of the Chinese product there is rubbish.

Yeah i don't argue that mate, 80% of the stuff coming out of china is crap! it's just not China vs The rest of the world any more!
I got a demo "hand built in the USA" amplifier last year and it was expensive crap and i also checked out a OEM amplifier built in China which was heaps better and about a 1/4 of the price! it's just the world we live in!

Have fun at PALM mate!