if teachers get a 20k payrise, I'm buying shares in a brewery

I'm not sure that following the university model where all academic staff both teach and research is a good idea. It's not unusual for people to talk about moving away from that model in universities. At least one reason for keeping the roles separate is that some people stay in research because their personality doesn't lend itself to applying their knowledge in industry or commercially, so they're unlikely to have a good personality for teaching a class.

The Age has been running many stories all year suggesting that teachers don't have the job security that you'd imagine them having.

Quote:

MORE than half of new teachers in Victorian government schools are employed on short-term contracts, resulting in job insecurity, the loss of potential holiday pay and an inability for some to take out car and home loans.

A survey of more than 1000 teachers in their first five years found 58 per cent were on fixed-term contracts, mostly for 12 months or less.

Of those on contracts, 70 per cent said having to reapply for positions had a negative effect on their teaching. Lack of tenure was the third most important issue they faced.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/ed...103-1pjoy.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

if you want to quote me, do so without embelllishing my quotes.

I have no idea what the best system of evaluation is, i'm not a teacher, but i dont want significant pay increases dolled out to every teacher with little or no regard to accountabiity or performance.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226295941933

anyone who disagrees with the above is a fucking nimby

Interesting, hopefully someone in the O'Farrell Govt has watched Season 4 of the Wire as a great example of why basing wages on NAPLAN tests is a ridiculous idea.

Late to the party here, but I think the crux of the issue yesterday was that Victorian teachers are supposedly the lowest paid in Australia. Baillieu promised to make them the highest paid in Australia & hasn't delivered on that.

NAPLAN based wages explains the scramble to bring kids up to speed in the last few months. It was part of their homework & everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

a good teacher is rewarded as most of them go to the private school system.

wow

I'm a primary teacher myself. The pay is good but i would like more. Who wouldn't. Unfortunately this process is the only way the public school teachers can negotiate. Publicly. I can appreciate why people get sick of it and hearing about the poor teachers.
Yet the point of the strike on Thursday was not soley focused on pay. In fact it barely got a mention. It was due to a number of funding issues and as for performance pay it simply would not work in schools. Rarely do you work individually and if you are, you're doing it wrong. The model proposed for performance pay is severely flawed. Who you give credit to for a student/classes performance is tough, is it you or the previous teachers?
I predict a secondary strike in term 3 with prins and ES staff so it could al happen again

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah

Perhaps there should be secondments for good teachers in the private sector to go to the poorer performing schools, paid at the same level, as a prerequisite of their tertiary qualification.

.

Can i ask why you think private schools have better teachers becuase this has been mentioned a few times by a couple of people.

A good teacher is a good teacher. Private or not. Do not fall into the trap of believing anything different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitedtimeonly

I'm a primary teacher myself. The pay is good but i would like more. Who wouldn't. Unfortunately this process is the only way the public school teachers can negotiate. Publicly. I can appreciate why people get sick of it and hearing about the poor teachers.
Yet the point of the strike on Thursday was not soley focused on pay. In fact it barely got a mention.

Sure some teachers were striking over the proposed performance based pay proposal, but the crux of the strike was that the AEU wants a 30% pay increase over 3 years, Govt isn't giving it to them so they do what they always do and hold the country to ransom. By all means call the Govt on its promise to make Vic teachers the best paid in the country, but the reality is it should never have been promised in the first place, classroom teachers should not be earning 6 figures, they work hard but not that hard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

pay should be performance based. There are good teachers, there are shit teachers.......simply giving everyone $20k more is ridiculous. The problem with public service salaries is that there is little accountability in the jobs.

gtfo

As a teacher myself, i feel pretty well versed in the issue... No, i didn't strike due to not being in the union yet but i plan on being in the union for the next strike.

I haven't read every post in this thread but basically what it is about is that Baillieu promised to make Victorian teachers the best paid in Australia 'reward' the best performing teachers... How the hell do you do that? Everyone in teaching knows that the quality of work your students produce is mostly dependent on the socio-economic status of the schools students, it's completely stupid and completely unfair to those teachers that do teach in underprivileged areas who have to deal with a mountain of issues with their kids before they even get around to trying to teach them curriculum material.

As a grad teacher, the pay is good but the problem is that the difference between the lower paid brackets and the highest paid (which is based on your years of experience or role within the school for example, assistant principal or principal) really isn't that great and not everyone wants pursue those positions.

The work is hard and an average day for me is to arrive at work at 8 and leave around 5 and on most nights do an hour or so of work at home. I regularly lose my lunch hours for yard duty and any other commitments or work that needs to be caught up on and i spend probably 5-6 hours doing work over the weekend, don't even get me started on report writing....During holidays we prepare for the next semester as well as attending professional development seminars and any other form of further education. It's not as easy going as it sounds.

It isn't just a pay dispute, it is also a stand against the requirements bestowed on us by politicians who wouldn't have the slightest clue how the profession works and the classic example is the NAPLAN testing and ranking system for teachers and schools.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chegoon

As a grad teacher, the pay is good but the problem is that the difference between the lower paid brackets and the highest paid (which is based on your years of experience or role within the school for example, assistant principal or principal) really isn't that great and not everyone wants pursue those positions.

Not too sure what you are getting at here but there is a $35k difference between the lowest pay bracket and the highest, seems like a pretty big difference between the highest and the lowest pay bracket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chegoon

The work is hard and an average day for me is to arrive at work at 8 and leave around 5 and on most nights do an hour or so of work at home. I regularly lose my lunch hours for yard duty and any other commitments or work that needs to be caught up on and i spend probably 5-6 hours doing work over the weekend, don't even get me started on report writing....During holidays we prepare for the next semester as well as attending professional development seminars and any other form of further education. It's not as easy going as it sounds.

No one would deny that school teachers work hard, but do the sums. If you work a 40 week school year x 1hr per day extra = 200 extra hrs a year, add an extra 4 hrs each weekend and you've got an extra 360 hrs each year that you're working as "time in lieu". Teachers get an extra 8 weeks holidays or 300 odd hours extra for holidays, so the difference isnt that great anymore. If they get the 30% pay rise they are after then an experienced teacher could be on $109k/ yr, even on the current pay scale then we are on a pretty good wicket given the conditions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapout

Not too sure what you are getting at here but there is a $35k difference between the lowest pay bracket and the highest, seems like a pretty big difference between the highest and the lowest pay bracket.

That's the thing though, unless you want to go for an assistant principal or principal role at a school (in state schools) the most you can possibly earn is capped at $90k at the L-3 level which equates to 14+ years of classroom teaching.

Personally, i don't think it affects me that greatly what happens, i'm pretty comfortable with what i earn but i can understand those that are hoping to buy property and have families on the current pay scale would find it pretty hard and get pretty frustrated. You also have to remember that the majority of teachers are women and they bitch and moan about anything and everything .

the bottom line is that the proposal put forward by the Baillieu government is very out of touch and not consistent with his pre-election promises and that's pretty poor form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by limitedtimeonly

Can i ask why you think private schools have better teachers becuase this has been mentioned a few times by a couple of people.

A good teacher is a good teacher. Private or not. Do not fall into the trap of believing anything different.

I agree. I don't necessarily think that private automatically means better. I was more following on from buffed's point in the sense that if there are good teachers in the private sector then they should perhaps have temporary secondments to under performing areas and regions in the state they teach in. This could just as easily apply to the good teachers in public schools.