Quote:

Originally Posted by DrugfuctDonkey

But this happened.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIcCU0Guk-Y

And follows it up with this stunning strike.

Media Player

Demba Ba scores with his hand - YouTube

And yes, if you look closely, the guy filming it is doing so with a gameboy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by base615

FFS Dezza, we're in the middle of a Chav / Gooner argument, this is certainly no time for masturbation

Believe!

this thread is a rollercoaster of emotions.

It's an EPL thread silva. If you're going to join in the shit throwing, at least don't look like an idiot while you do it and focus on some English teams.

Oh and the greatest player ever scored 4 goals, well colour me fucking blind, dumb and surprised. Certainly would never have expected that!

Bendtner!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bism

Everybody mad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRZA

this thread is a rollercoaster of emotions.

Well, it was the Tuesday after a long weekend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRZA

this thread is a glass case of emotions.

THE BAD MAN PUNTED BAXTER RAVER!

So I dont really know what happened the last few days, but I seem to remember Utd losing to Spurs at some point.


Fml .

Good game though. Possibly highlight of the round, if only NUFC/Reading's second half wasn't so good.

I kind of remember watching it, though was a bit of a blur...




... Wait, do I even support Utd ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fledz

It's an EPL thread silva. If you're going to join in the shit throwing, at least don't look like an idiot while you do it and focus on some English teams.

Oh and the greatest player ever scored 4 goals, well colour me fucking blind, dumb and surprised. Certainly would never have expected that!

baw

Suarez.

Can I safely assume the missed penalties against Spurs was discussed by the Utd fans and how we were robbed and sent death threats to the ref and how Spurs are conspiring with the FA and AVB is corrupt etc ?



Or did we just accept we were wank first half and although we played well second half ( Rooney made a massive difference!), deserved to lose to lose and credit to Spurs..

I think you needed more injury time.

Hadn't Dempsey scored, Spurs would've lost faith, I think.

edit: @ Silva

True, I better get sending death threats to the fourth official then right?

Did Wenger just see the arse from PSY's music video?

Hehe. I'd run to the police if someone wished me cancer on twitter...

An interesting read.

The Truth is Out There

Oliver Stone once said: “Paranoia is having all the facts”. Many of us die hard football fans know exactly what he means.

I've long held the view that something very fishy goes on in English football.

I’m not the most naturally trusting of guys anyways. When it comes to institutions, I'm downright skeptical of them. I have very little respect or trust in governments, police, and media or football institutions. It's not me being paranoid either: week after week, I’m proven correct on my doubts about them (to any Liverpool fan the findings of the Hillsborough report came as absolutely no surprise).

When it comes to football, it's not even lack of trust. It's plain common sense.

In recent years, we've had a huge number of corruption scandals all across Europe. Several of them in Italy, the corrupt referee Hoyser in Germany, Fenerbahce being docked their title in Turkey, Spain's second division scandals, Marseille a while ago in France, Porto in Portugal etc...

Of course, the one league where nothing ever gets proven to be dodgy is in England. The richest and most watched league in the world is, we are told, completely squeaky clean.

Leaving aside the sheer ridiculousness of that statement, ask yourself this: if corruption gets proven all across Europe, how is the most popular league in the world, with the biggest prize monies in football, whose clubs are owned by some of the richest people in the world, run by stakeholders that are the most powerful media moguls in the world, immune from this? With the amounts of money at stake, how has it managed to be so clean for so long?

To dismiss any talks of corruption in the premier league is to fall for 2 of the traits that characterize the English the most: a sheer egocentric belief that they are better than anyone else and their complete faith in the country's institutions. To them, it’s entirely logical that that stuff goes on abroad where institutions are corrupt, but it’s impossible in England. Just like diving is a foreign disease and Uruguay is the epicenter of racism, unlike the multi cultural tolerance of middle England.

I share neither of those traits. By pure logic, when I see corruption in every facet of English life (MP's expenses scandal, banking sector, the war on Iraq, Leveson enquiry, Hillsborough, The Guilford 4, The Birmingham 6 et all...) as well as entire European football, I ask why is it impossible as many deem, for it to be happening in English football too?

I have followed football since 1986. I have seen for years how Manchester United benefits from refereeing decisions. I don’t need an investigation to tell me this: it happens on a near weekly basis to the point where people are so immune to it, they laugh it off.

I have seen the influence Alex Ferguson has on every facet of the English game. When his Darren son got fired as manager of Preston North End, I watched with bemusement as Ferguson immediately recalled his loan players from Deepdale. I then watched in horror as another club in the premier league, managed by Ferguson’s father’s friend Tony Pullis, also recalled their loan players from PNE.

The message was clear: Mess with Mr Ferguson or his children, and you will be punished.

And not just from Mr Ferguson either. By his friends in football.

Recently, ex referee Jeff Winter stated that he once sent Roy Keane off in a match. He was then criticized by Ferguson and not given a Manchester United game to referee for 2 years. He saw that as punishment as he said that “The FA is reticent to give Manchester United games to referees that Ferguson has criticized in the past”.

Read that statement again. Ferguson criticizes referees that give decisions against his club. Most likely, these decisions happen in games Manchester United lose. The FA reacts to the criticism by not assigning said referees in future Manchester United games. Thus, the only referees assigned to United games are ones that Ferguson approves of.

The referees that have given decisions Ferguson deem to be incorrect against United, however, no longer referee their games (usually the most high profile ones). It’s a terrible indictment of sporting impartiality, justice and the way the game is run in England. This form of selective referee assignement led to the Juventus scandal in 2006.

Winter’s comments prompted me to do my own research. I focused on the referees that took charge of United 2 biggest high profile losses in the last decade or so.

Alain Wiley refereed United’s 4-1 loss to Liverpool in 2009. In that game, he gave both United and Liverpool penalties and sent off Nemanja Vidic. All 3 decisions were absolutely correct and Wiley was praised by Sky TV co-commentator Andy Gray for his performance. Not even Ferguson complained.

Later that year, Wiley was given another United game to referee and despite sending off Kieran Richardson of Sunderland, Wiley was lambasted by Ferguson for being “fat and unfit”. The game ended 2-2.

That would be the end of Wiley’s refereeing career. Wiley, it says cryptically on his Wikipedia page, “agreed to retire” at the end of that season. Agreed with whom? No one knows.

Last season, Manchester City romped to a 6-1 win at Old Trafford, inflicting on their rivals their biggest embarrassment under Ferguson. The referee on that day was Mark Clattenburg. He sent Johnny Evans off in the second half for a clear professional foul.

There have been 34 Man United league games since that day. The number of times times Clattenburg has refereed them? Zero. Not a single one.

It seems that the FA, for whatever reason, doesn’t want Clattenburg to referee Man United games anymore. Some of us more paranoid folk may just wonder who’s behind that decision.
The FA has no hesitation to hand United games to Howard Webb though: he’s been the most used referee in 34 United games since the 6-1 defeat to City.

Webb’s history in Man United games are well known and documented. All I have to say on the matter is that more than 18% of the penalties he’s awarded in his ENTIRE premier league refereeing career have gone to Manchester United. Over a 9 year period, that’s a huge percentage.

So in closing, let’s resume what we’ve discovered. We have an ex premier league referee who has openly stated he was not handed a Manchester United game for 2 years after sending off one of their players. We have an FA who, in said referee’s words, don’t hand Manchester United games to referees that the United manager has previously criticized.

We have a referee who took charge of a heavy United defeat and “agreed to retire” a year later after being called unfit by Alex Ferguson. We have another referee who hasn’t been handed a United game to officiate since he reffed a heavy United defeat 34 league games ago.

Meanwhile, the most used official in United games in that time is the man who has handed 18% of his entire career penalty awards to Ferguson’s team.

Factor in the fact that Manchester United CEO is ON THE BOARD OF the English FA, Alex Ferguson is a knight of the realm with political connections that go a lot deeper than football (just read Allistair Campbell’s diaries if you don’t believe me), and the evidence in the Darren Ferguson sacking that clubs that cross Ferguson get punished by his friends, and you have all the tools there for someone more investigative than me to really delve into.

But yet, nothing happens. Year on year, I watch as not a single journalist utters a peep on the subject. I watch as decision after decision goes United’s way and people in the UK, so much better than everyone else and trusting of their institutions remember, brush them off with insouciance.

In Italy, there would have been phone tap investigations a long time ago. In "so much cleaner than everywhere else" England, we’re paranoid.

Why is that?

Well, when you look at who runs the sport in the country, you understand a bit more. Rupert Murdoch’s Sky live off the premier league. So do his other publications like the Sun. The English media’s last priority is going to investigate and damage one of their biggest cash cows.

Imagine the hit to the revenue streams of the media and clubs if corruption is proved in the premier league? The richest league in the world, so carefully and beautifully marketed across the world, would suffer a huge blow. The effects an investigation would have on Manchester United, the cash cow’s biggest cash cow, would also be devastating.

So it’s all swept under the tabled and every refereeing decision shrugged off. “They even themselves out” we’re told by journalists who get banned from United press conferences for asking a question about team selection.

God knows what would happen to them if they investigate United’s behind the scenes dealings.

Maybe, like Preston, they’ll learn that if you cross Man United, all of football will turn their backs on you too.

Chris Foy who reffed the mancs spurs game has been demoted to League 2.

Howard Webb is reffin mancs vs newcastle

Nice read, if you're skeptical

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvaside

Chris Foy who reffed the mancs spurs game has been demoted to League 2.

Howard Webb is reffin mancs vs newcastle

, I love it.

Psst;

Quote:

"There are 16 select group officials who are rotated around ten games - it would be remiss of anyone to suggest that he has been demoted," Phil Dorward, head of PR for PGMO.

"He’s done five out of six [Premier League games] so far this season but the select group don’t just do Premier League games they do Football League games as well.

"Howard Webb was on a Football League game a couple of weeks ago and all of our officials will be doing Football League games over the course of the season."

"He has refereed more games than most [at Premier League level]. There are 16 guys who can ref our games every week and there are only 10 games so six of those guys will be without games, they are on a rotating basis" he added.

That article is tinfoil hat material, but some of the points he raises are quite valid.

-- No other club gets benefit of the doubt penalties quite like United does.
-- Most football fans have known for years that Howard Webb is soft with United.
-- Ferguson certainly has more influence than any other manager but that comes down to his 25 year tenure.

Compare the soft penalties that United have received this year (Valencia) compared to Aguero or Suarez having their feet taken from underneath and then being told to play on.

Then Ferguson has the tenacity to come out in the media and say that foreign players are to blame for the diving culture in the EPL when both (a) a United player and (b) who is English was the most blatant offender last season: Ashley Young.

I don't think it's corruption but you have to admit they get more of the lucky 50/50 calls in their favour than other teams.

The CEO who is also on the FA board scares me

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

I don't think it's corruption but you have to admit they get more of the lucky 50/50 calls in their favour than other teams.

I'm not volunteering but it would be an interesting experiment to note how many United do get in their favour, those that are waved away, and those that go to their opposition.

As I said to Bateman earlier in this thread; if you have it in your conscious mind that United get an unfair advantage, you are likely to only ever see the decisions that go in their favour and subconsciously ignore all the decisions that don't.

I'm not even sold on Fergie time. The amount of Arsenal games (of which I obviously watch the most of) I've seen that have 4-5 minutes added to the end which seems disproportionate to the amount of actual time lost are almost limitless. I bet if you looked hard enough you would find this replicated in most games each week. But because much is made of Fergie Time it jumps out at you more readily if a United game has 4-5 minutes added-on compared to other matches.

Mids, surely you would agree that a stadium of 75,000 + screaming would have an effect on the ref as well though, they are only human.





Its just too bad City's half full stadium doesnt have the same effect .

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

when both (a) a United player and (b) who is English was the most blatant offender last season: Ashley Young.

Bollocks. He dived twice. Terribly, mind, but there are players in the league who dive more than that in a single game.

Yeah and you would have to agree English players are now diving a lot more than they were years ago when the league was full of british players only. Surely it would be hard to argue that foreign players have had that effect on the league over the last twenty years? To be fair, they were a lot more skilled and technically better they would gt the crap kicked out of them by the English players.

I remember reading an autobiography ( I think maybe Keanes?) and he was saying when they played away in Europe, players were diving left/right and centre and were conceding fouls all over the place and was so frustrated they felt they needed to try manipulate the referee as well.


English players dive all the time now, no questions about it ( from clubs all over).

I think people are diving, notably more Engerlish players, but they aren't making a big fuss. Take Jenksinson's dive vs Chelsea. He stuck his leg out, waited to get hit, fell over, and picked himself up.
Whereas David Luiz recieved a yellow for being 'flamboyant' with a same attempt, albeit in the penalty area. They are going under the radar by not writhing Suarez style, and it's working

Diving isn't that bad in the Premier League anyway. Watch the Asian Champions League if you're up for a proper laugh.

Watch the A-league Grand Final last year

Berisha = foreigner. QED.

QED. I just looked that up.
Might use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hdb2

Can I safely assume the missed penalties against Spurs was discussed by the Utd fans and how we were robbed and sent death threats to the ref and how Spurs are conspiring with the FA and AVB is corrupt etc ?



Or did we just accept we were wank first half and although we played well second half ( Rooney made a massive difference!), deserved to lose to lose and credit to Spurs..

what penalties? i watched the game and don't remember any that should have been given

shame you didn't have webb as the referee though eh? did you know that in webb's 9 year career more than 18% of the penalties he has awarded have been to manure?

did you know that clattenberg has not reffed any manure games since the 6-1 spanking at home to city? since that game, howard webb has been the most used referee in manure games.

also - "Very early in my Premier League career I sent Roy Keane off and incurred Fergie's wrath for doing so," said Winter

"In the course of the next two seasons I did not get a single Manchester United game, even though I refereed every other Premier League club at least five or six times. I was not afraid to stand up to him and I think he knew that.

also david gill (manure chief exec) is on the board of the FA

#nothingsuss

yeh.

either that or they pick the best ref to ref the big games. just so happens the biggest games involve manu. and the best ref happens to be webb. so he's going to have a higher chance of giving out penalties in, you know, games he's refereeing.

i'm using logic here though, so you know, make of it what you will.

Not a shame at all - refs arent superhuman and just like the players make mistakes.

As I stated - credit goes to Spurs who deserved to win, simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickko

Berisha = foreigner. QED.

I just don't understand why they don't retroactively punish players for simulation or use replays for game changing scenarios.

I think Nani went down, and it was the right call not to give it, but it really could have gone either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRZA

yeh.

either that or they pick the best ref to ref the big games. just so happens the biggest games involve manu. and the best ref happens to be webb. so he's going to have a higher chance of giving out penalties in, you know, games he's refereeing.

i'm using logic here though, so you know, make of it what you will.

no, you're just blind.

also funny how quickly people forget. i see you have already forgotten last season's 3-3 with chelsea - manure. chelsea 3 - 0 up and howard webb gives manure 2 penalties (neither of which were legit). oh wait i forgot, you wouldn't have seen the game because you stopped watching until you made it to the CL final!

Thoughts? List looks good to me.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football...002-26xw8.html

Quote:

Summer specials
It's early days but some of the signings during the last transfer window have made an instant impact at their new clubs. Here are our top five so far:

Steven Fletcher (Sunderland, £12m): Five goals in four games, say no more

Eden Hazard (Chelsea, £32m): Had a hand in most of Chelsea's goals and a joy to watch on the ball

Jan Vertonghen (Spurs, £9.5m): Stylish centre-back who can score goals

Santi Cazorla (Arsenal, £15m): Another Gaudi (ie mesmerising Spanish architect) in the Gunners' midfield

Robin van Persie (Man Utd, £22.5m): Coup of the summer but United's problems might lay elsewhere

Honourable mention: Nuri Sahin (Liverpool, loan): Little-known understudy at Real Madrid could make his name in red

Discuss. (We'll wait a bit longer before making nominations for the Winston Bogarde memorial award for dud signing of the season. Olivier Giroud - you have been warned.)

This conspiracy is lacking stats to back it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRZA

yeh.

either that or they pick the best ref to ref the big games. just so happens the biggest games involve manu. and the best ref happens to be webb. so he's going to have a higher chance of giving out penalties in, you know, games he's refereeing.

i'm using logic here though, so you know, make of it what you will.

I would have thought Joe Allen has made a bigger impact than sahin.

I would of thought Chris Foy or Howard Webb has had more of an impact than Robin Van Persie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hdb2

, I love it.

Psst;

Chris Foy has not reffed a League 2 game in 4 years.

Nothing suss...

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvaside

Chris Foy has not reffed a League 2 game in 4 years.

Nothing suss...

So just to confim here, are you saying that Foy didnt favour Utd on the weekend and that decisions went against United?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hdb2

So just to confim here, are you saying that Foy didnt favour Utd on the weekend and that decisions went against United?

I think you've misunderstood or I was not clear.

I'm talking about how Fergie will call out refs in the press when results don't go his way. These refs are "punished" and never ref united games ever again. Does this have an effect on how other refs officiate United games?

Possibly in my opinion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2210735/Alex-Ferguson-hits-referee-Chris-Foy.html