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The trouble with Julia.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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The grinning fuckwit and his team have a 20 point lead, nice work Labor
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is that she likes sardines. Thats filthy who the hell likes that sh*t
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Sardines on toast are fucking awesome, I'll not have you slag them off thank you very much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

Sardines on toast are fucking awesome, I'll not have you slag them off thank you very much.

Yes. Slightly mashed with a bit of tobasco or some chilli flakes. Hells yeah.
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Yes. Slightly mashed with a bit of tobasco or some chilli flakes. Hells yeah.

Or vinegar.
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I'll take sardines if there are no sprats around.

w/ onion. lots of onion
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I've just been reading through some comments on the ALP's proposed super tax lurks.

I, and I suspect many others, agree with the changes but the way it has been handled is typical Labor, they have stuffed it right up.

The comments are mainly the same, people think the 100k figure is gross income, not super contributions, the average schmo thinks they are going to be taxed extra.

Now I know a lot of people in the country can't comprehend simple things but you would think the ALP would know that by know and dumb it right down.

This lot are hopeless at selling anything!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by baax View Post

The comments are mainly the same, people think the 100k figure is gross income, not super contributions, the average schmo thinks they are going to be taxed extra.

It isn't even $100k super contributions! Its earnings on super, so assuming 5% growth, you'll only receive this new tax if you have over $2million in your super account already. Massive storm in a teacup.
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read the comments if you dare

http://www.news.com.au/money/superan...-1226612971840
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there's actually some reasonable comments in there, hidden amongst the "omg, those bastards are taking my moneys " ones
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jubei View Post

It isn't even $100k super contributions! Its earnings on super, so assuming 5% growth, you'll only receive this new tax if you have over $2million in your super account already. Massive storm in a teacup.


This is my gripe, why didn't the government come straight out with this???

Instead they make rumblings about super a couple of weeks ago and then let it fester so every News Ltd groupie can get their whinge on
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So now every retard who is 'undecided' is going to get told at the pub that 'Juliar' is coming after their super.

Honestly, rather than banging on about being the party that started superannuation, why not just say 'unless you have over $2million in your account, you're fine'.
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my favourites so far

'there liars'

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It doesn't really matter what the government says, it only depends on the spin the media puts on it. That news.com article clearly states:

"Assuming an annual rate of return of 5 per cent, the changes - set to take effect from July 1 next year - would affect individuals with around $2 million of savings in superannuation."

Yet unfortunately most people won't read beyond:

"Labor will raid Australia's superannuation accounts to plug its revenue hole, with earnings over $100,000 to be taxed under a plan unveiled today."
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jubei View Post

It doesn't really matter what the government says, it only depends on the spin the media puts on it. That news.com article clearly states:

"Assuming an annual rate of return of 5 per cent, the changes - set to take effect from July 1 next year - would affect individuals with around $2 million of savings in superannuation."

Yet unfortunately most people won't read beyond:

"Labor will raid Australia's superannuation accounts to plug its revenue hole, with earnings over $100,000 to be taxed under a plan unveiled today."

Exactly; the provocative nature of the first line of that article is a blatant attempt to stir up outrage and misinform their "readers".
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This is pretty funny - Samantha Maiden, of the Sunday Tele, gives Abbott a well-deserved blast for "recklessly undermining confidence in the superannuation system":

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...sTIQLc.twitter

Presumably she doesn't read the weekday editions of her paper . . .
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didnt they used to shoot people for this?
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...408-2hgut.html
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Extradition or extraordinary rendition I thought.

I like how the last four paragraphs are an advertisement for Wikileaks.
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Apparently Gillard doggie chew dolls are proof that Australians cannot handle a female leader, according to some troubled feminazi

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/n...-1226616272712

Because no Australian PM has been caricatured, ever before in the history of Australia.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 10-Apr-13 at 06:11pm

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http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...410-2hlnj.html

The on leave Paul Sheehan must have choked on his cornflakes web he read this.
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Yikes!

http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2013/4889/
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Labor gonna get butt-raped. They should join with the Greens to form their own coalition.

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Pffft. Morgan polls are shithouse: you can get them to do anything.

Stick to Newspoll and Nielsen: they both show wipe-outs for Labor but not at that Morgan level.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Davomaxi View Post

Labor gonna get butt-raped. They should join with the Greens to form their own coalition.

As if the Labor party havent alienated enough of their voters through incompetance and shambolic governance already.

Elections arent won in Newtown and Northcote, they're won in marginal mortgage belt places like Penrith. Places where the Greens, and now Gillard are held beneath contempt.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 01-May-13 at 01:34pm

Reason: spelling

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Yep, deeply indebted Krispy Kreme eaters whinging about the cost of living decide Australian elections.

Last edited by gravyishot: 01-May-13 at 01:20pm

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The NDIS announcement today seems to have marked one of the first examples of genuinely astute politics from the ALP for quite a while.

Gillard says she will take the increase in the Medicare levy to the election; Abbott says, "no, do it now" (because, gutless coward that Abbott is, he wants the credit for the NDIS without having to do the heavy lifting of funding it).

Gillard says, "If you support it, we'll do it now" - which leaves Abbott with the choice of supporting a "great big new tax on everything" or, alternatively, having his "support" for the NDIS exposed as completely hollow.

I'm sure that the ALP will manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of this victory but it is nice to see something work this well even if only for a little while.
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it just plays into the hands of the "she's a shrewd game playing witch willing to use disbled people for her own political survival" brigade imo

can't see this winning her any votes either, whoever advised her to run with it as her main election strategy should be sacked 100 times over
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Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

As if the Labor party havent alienated enough of their voters through incompetance and shambolic governance already.

Elections arent won in Newtown and Northcote, they're won in marginal mortgage belt places like Penrith. Places where the Greens, and now Gillard are held beneath contempt.

I realise they are a mess, and my second sentence was in jest as the Labs already did form an alliance of sorts with the greens which spectacularly failed.

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Libs just counting the days until they're restored into their natural position of power...

http://www.liberal.org.au/chooks/
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Urgh

The boats are a lovely touch
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http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...505-2j0u4.html

Gillard's got stones. She's also got delusions.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by CheelWinston View Post

Urgh

The boats are a lovely touch


Classy stuff innit.
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Wow. That link is unbelievable, have Labor responded to it?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by custaro View Post

Libs just counting the days until they're restored into their natural position of power...

http://www.liberal.org.au/chooks/

That's a pretty slick piece of work - it would work well on a sketch comedy show, but I'm ot sure how clever it is to do it as an authorised piece of Liberal Party material.
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Originally Posted by Portal View Post

Wow. That link is unbelievable, have Labor responded to it?

These sort of things aren't that uncommon around elections right?

Though that one has a certain air of smugness about it

I really would have liked some adorable little ragheads with tiny little bombs on the boats though
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Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

Yep, deeply indebted Krispy Kreme eaters whinging about the cost of living decide Australian elections.

Yep, these sort of comments pop up occasionally on my Facebook feed of typical Liberal bogan voters



Labor is gone, the Libs could bring back work choices tomorrow and they'd still piss this election in.
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Phillip Adams nails the Gillard situation

PM bent on leading ALP over the abyss

WHILE the Abbotts are measuring the curtains for the Lodge, the ALP is sewing shrouds. Latest estimates? An opposition numbered in the low 20s.
Private polling (not that the figures will be revealed by the PM's praetorian guard) shows that Victorian voters have now deserted Julia Gillard and we're looking at swings similar to those that obliterated the party in NSW: more than 20 per cent in safe seats.
September won't be so much an election as an exorcism. It wouldn't help if the Prime Minister guaranteed eternal life. No one's listening. Remember the last days of John Howard?
Which is why a lengthening number of Labor heavies have told Gillard, publicly or privately, that she has to go. The heaviest won't admit it publicly, but we're talking the aristocracy as well as the apparatchiks. Bob Carr and Simon Crean have not been alone. - But Gillard's not for moving. Having led Labor to the edge of the abyss at the previous election, she's now doing a Thelma, with Wayne Swan as Louise, and pressing on the accelerator.


The MPs in the back seat know they're doomed but are gutless and fatalistic. Knowing that the post-election caucus could number in the low 20s, they're preparing escape routes. A lucky few can return to jobs in the right-wing unions. The rest? To oblivion and anonymity. And it wasn't much fun while it lasted.
It's not policy with the PM. It's personal. Truth is that since the Menzies and Whitlam eras our federal elections have been increasingly presidential. And September forces angry voters to choose between the most unpopular presidential contenders in memory. But not even Tony Abbott's electoral toxicity can save Gillard. There's no sense of hope in the future, - as there was with Obama v Bush. This is just politics. Of a sort that, like the presidential candidates, few respect.
On the night of the coup against Kevin Rudd I broadcast the view that "the ALP has just committed suicide". That's when Gillard lost the previous election, and the next. Like Malcolm Fraser after his coup, Gillard was stained by hers. Despite the sense of entitlement that had him conspiring with John Kerr, and his landslide win, Fraser would end his time in office tormented by self-doubt. Which explains much of his ongoing efforts to rehabilitate and reform his reputation. I don't think Gillard will feel like that. This is not a self-reflective person. She's still deluded that she can win. It's not a delusion that anyone shares.
It's not policy, it's personal. Some of her policy work has been impressive. It's not because of her erratic tactics. It's not because of the economy, which could be a lot, lot worse. And it's certainly not because the PM's a woman. The rejection of Gillard is deeper, more profound. Thus, not everyone who has said "it's time to go" has been in the Rudd camp - though the latest to announce the end to a significant career, Martin Ferguson, is as much pro-Rudd as anti-Gillard. (It's surprising he didn't call publicly for her resignation on his way out the door.)
The ALP needs a new leader, who may or may not be Rudd. One could say as much of the Libs, but not even Tony Abbott can discourage the exorcism. And perhaps his friend Cardinal George Pell can help with the ritual.
Of course Rudd should have run. With Bill Shorten ready to switch sides, he would have come close. Now everyone seems frozen in time, posing in a terminal tableau. The press and pundits are too afraid to talk leadership change - Hartcher, Richo and Adams were amongst the many caught out.
Now Rudd would be one of a number of possibilities, any of whom would improve the electoral math. Were Gillard the leader she believes herself to be, she'd resign for the sake of the party. As some surprising people have told her in private.
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Lots of crooked banged up nails in this nailing by Phillip Adams.
Gillard wasn't close to losing the last election, it was Abbott with the numbers and two right leaning independents who lost the election, simply because Gillard had the advantage of not being a brainless moron. For whatever reason the electorate has decided that she is a bad prime minister, though when you press for details it turns out that it is basically because she has red hair and a funny voice.
I think there is some merit in going out with dignity and letting the electorate discover for themselves that the greener grass they are seeking is just as brown as it is in Queensland.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by horst View Post

For whatever reason the electorate has decided that she is a bad prime minister, though when you press for details it turns out that it is basically because she has red hair and a funny voice.

as flippant a that sounds, i think there is a fair bit of truth to it

pretty sure that appointing john mcternan hasn't helped her cause one bit either
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Quote:

Originally Posted by horst View Post

Lots of crooked banged up nails in this nailing by Phillip Adams.
Gillard wasn't close to losing the last election, it was Abbott with the numbers and two right leaning independents who lost the election, simply because Gillard had the advantage of not being a brainless moron. For whatever reason the electorate has decided that she is a bad prime minister, though when you press for details it turns out that it is basically because she has red hair and a funny voice.
I think there is some merit in going out with dignity and letting the electorate discover for themselves that the greener grass they are seeking is just as brown as it is in Queensland.

It's hard to know what the better strategy would be. If Rudd had stayed or came back, for example, we may well have seen the same nasty campaign of lies pointed towards whoever was the PM.

I think you are right about the electorate hating women, and the conservatives had a field day with their Cassandra strategy. I wondered if Abbott's apparent emotional farewell to Ferguson the other day wasn't a little remorse showing through. I'd hate to win government they way the coalition will win this.

Watching Cory Bernardi last night on Q&A made me sick. These guys are so used to hearing their own bullshit it's truth for them now.

It will be interesting, but not very pleasing, to see what happens if we do hit the economic bad times Garnaut is predicting, and how long the coalition will blame Labor for it.
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I'll always reckon that Rudd would have won the election and the ALP would have ruled outright, so in a way she did lose it.

Some may call it going out with dignity many would call it a deluded sense that she can still win, like Adams has.
I also wouldn't call presiding over an ALP slaughter because you either can't or wont see the writing on the wall as going out with dignity.

I do agree that a lot of people are going to be howling when after voting for Abbott he either screws them or does nothing, it's going to be gold.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by baax View Post

I'll always reckon that Rudd would have won the election and the ALP would have ruled outright, so in a way she did lose it.

Some may call it going out with dignity many would call it a deluded sense that she can still win, like Adams has.
I also wouldn't call presiding over an ALP slaughter because you either can't or wont see the writing on the wall as going out with dignity.

I do agree that a lot of people are going to be howling when after voting for Abbott he either screws them or does nothing, it's going to be gold.

Yeah I tend to agree with your view that presiding over the ALP slaughter is not all that dignified, but there must be enough people in the party who want her to stay. I sometimes feel like they want a collapse so they can rebuild the party.

I don't think anyone will care if Abbott does nothing. I think the electorate prefers it when a government does nothing. They hate change. Doing nothing seems to be a winner. You can do small things like make flags compulsory in schools, beef up nationalism and stir up racism. That works. And the important thing is to be seen at sporting events. It worked for Howard. It's how you sell doing nothing that counts. Howard did that very well. I reckon Abbott will be fine. But there are some complete nutters in the party he's going to have to watch out for.
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The powerful in the ALP play a longer game than the electoral cycle. They know governments come and go. They almost accept being out of office federally most of the timeas Labor's lot.

Switching allegiances to win one election undermines their authority and power long term. Rudd was never a chance to come back, because even if he did, and he won the election, that would undermine all the power people like Conroy, Feeney at all have accumulated over so many years.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

The powerful in the ALP play a longer game than the electoral cycle. They know governments come and go. They almost accept being out of office federally most of the timeas Labor's lot.

Switching allegiances to win one election undermines their authority and power long term. Rudd was never a chance to come back, because even if he did, and he won the election, that would undermine all the power people like Conroy, Feeney at all have accumulated over so many years.

Yes, right. Of course.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by baax View Post

I'll always reckon that Rudd would have won the election and the ALP would have ruled outright, so in a way she did lose it.

Rudd was also the likely source of the leaks in that second week. That fucked Gillard up pretty hard. She looked like winning, with a reduced a majority to be sure, but winning nonetheless.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

Yeah I tend to agree with your view that presiding over the ALP slaughter is not all that dignified, but there must be enough people in the party who want her to stay. I sometimes feel like they want a collapse so they can rebuild the party.

I don't think anyone will care if Abbott does nothing. I think the electorate prefers it when a government does nothing. They hate change. Doing nothing seems to be a winner. You can do small things like make flags compulsory in schools, beef up nationalism and stir up racism. That works. And the important thing is to be seen at sporting events. It worked for Howard. It's how you sell doing nothing that counts. Howard did that very well. I reckon Abbott will be fine. But there are some complete nutters in the party he's going to have to watch out for.

As much as I disliked Howard, his government implemented some pretty good reforms:

- GST
- Gun law reform

They also returned the budget to surplus as well as creating and filling the Future Fund.

They didn't do much else of worth imo but I think we should acknowledge the good things he/they did.

---

I think you are right about the electorate being conservative when it comes to change but I think you in particular Claude have a tendency to overestimate the conservative streak in Australian society and underestimate the progressive/liberal streak.

I mean, when people are polled on specific policy prescriptions like schools, disability reform, mining tax, marriage equality, NBN etc. there is normally at least a small majority in favour overall, and sometimes even a strong majority but the fact is the Labor brand for whatever reason - Spews Ltd press, shock-jocks, broken carbon tax promise, NSW Inc., poor political advice to the PM, Gillard always seeming very un-relaxed, Labor Party navel gazing, flip-flopping on policies, poor narrative etc. - is toxix. Gillard's personal brand is even more so.

In a policy sense though the Labor Party has the edge over the Coalition, but it just isn't crashing through.

Abbott gave Gillard a nice big shit sandwich to eat over electoral reform and political party funding but which fucking genius thought that doing that 3 months out from an election, just weeks after a fairly austere budget, was ever going to be a good idea?

It's another instance of the ALP just being so bad at messaging. Which shouldn't be the highest priority in a governance sense but it is becoming just as vital as the things a government does in the media landscape we now walk through.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

As much as I disliked Howard, his government implemented some pretty good reforms:

- GST
- Gun law reform

They also returned the budget to surplus as well as creating and filling the Future Fund.

They didn't do much else of worth imo but I think we should acknowledge the good things he/they did.

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I think you are right about the electorate being conservative when it comes to change but I think you in particular Claude have a tendency to overestimate the conservative streak in Australian society and underestimate the progressive/liberal streak.

I mean, when people are polled on specific policy prescriptions like schools, disability reform, mining tax, marriage equality, NBN etc. there is normally at least a small majority in favour overall, and sometimes even a strong majority but the fact is the Labor brand for whatever reason - Spews Ltd press, shock-jocks, broken carbon tax promise, NSW Inc., poor political advice to the PM, Gillard always seeming very un-relaxed, Labor Party navel gazing, flip-flopping on policies, poor narrative etc. - is toxix. Gillard's personal brand is even more so.

In a policy sense though the Labor Party has the edge over the Coalition, but it just isn't crashing through.

Abbott gave Gillard a nice big shit sandwich to eat over electoral reform and political party funding but which fucking genius thought that doing that 3 months out from an election, just weeks after a fairly austere budget, was ever going to be a good idea?

It's another instance of the ALP just being so bad at messaging. Which shouldn't be the highest priority in a governance sense but it is becoming just as vital as the things a government does in the media landscape we now walk through.

GST and gun reform. All that in eleven years! Wow!

Howard didn't return us to surplus the resources boom returned us to surplus, just as the resources slump has put us into deficit now.

geezah, it's not a conservative streak, it's a selfish, nasty streak. Middle aged people holding 'ditch the witch' signs is pretty new ground in my experience (of 18 elections). And I think you really do have to accept that most swingers don't know shit from clay and read and regurgitate Murdoch press. The invective directed towards Gillard is social media-hyped mob behaviour. Notwithstanding that, I do think Labor has botched the communication and I've said that many times, despite the fact that climate policy should be bi-partisan. It's the saddest indictment on the Coalition that they politicised it, Abbott being the stooge of the far right and Turnbull being the victim. I also strongly agree with the pollster, whose name I forget, who observed that Australians vote for father figures. The only policies swingers vote for is more money in their pockets. Otherwise they vote for the person who makes them feel good. Who they think they can trust, like they have any real way of knowing.

But what has always happened in this country (and most others) is when you seek to be a reformist government with an agenda of change the Establishment will nail you. Always.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

1.GST and gun reform. All that in eleven years! Wow!

Howard didn't return us to surplus the resources boom returned us to surplus, just as the resources slump has put us into deficit now.

2. geezah, it's not a conservative streak, it's a selfish, nasty streak. Middle aged people holding 'ditch the witch' signs is pretty new ground in my experience (of 18 elections). And I think you really do have to accept that most swingers don't know shit from clay and read and regurgitate Murdoch press. The invective directed towards Gillard is social media-hyped mob behaviour. Notwithstanding that, I do think Labor has botched the communication and I've said that many times, despite the fact that climate policy should be bi-partisan. It's the saddest indictment on the Coalition that they politicised it, Abbott being the stooge of the far right and Turnbull being the victim. I also strongly agree with the pollster, whose name I forget, who observed that Australians vote for father figures. The only policies swingers vote for is more money in their pockets. Otherwise they vote for the person who makes them feel good. Who they think they can trust, like they have any real way of knowing.

But what has always happened in this country (and most others) is when you seek to be a reformist government with an agenda of change the Establishment will nail you. Always.

1. I wasn't saying they did much but you were saying they did nothing. The GST and Gun Law reform were significant achievements which should be acknowledged. Howard almost loss the 98 election because of Labor's scare campaign about the GST - a scare campaign that Abbott has virtually copied verbatim in relation to the Carbon Tax.

We can split hairs if you like about the resource sector providing Howard with surpluses, which is no doubt true, but it is also no doubt true that it happened under Howard. As well as squandering a lot of it they did set up the Future Fund and put some of the revenues in there so while it could have been even bigger the fact is Howard and Costello did do something with the riches of the resources boom. Dismissing it as nothing doesn't help your argument imo.

2. Yes there is a greedy selfish streak amongst the Australian population but if you look at those in favour and those against, when it comes to the progressive reform agenda Labor have embarked on in their time in Government, you find at worst a very large plurality - and in some cases of those policies I mentioned in my previous post, there are clear majorities in favour, even large majorities on some policy issues - in favour of good social, economic, and infrastructure policies.

So you saying that Australians are just a bunch of scared, greedy khunts isn't the whole truth. We may very well be that, but we also do seem to be in favour of strong social spending intiatives too. That you only see things one way isn't objectively fair or objectively even true.
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