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PA systems vs. Monitors for home use

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Garjon +

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PA systems vs. Monitors for home use
I have some pioneer monitors at the production desk and they're great but I have to rewire everything when I DJ.

So I want to get some more speakers but it seems pointless to me to get another set of monitors when I could get a PA system to take to small gigs and parties but also for DJing at home.

Question is are they quiet enough for DJ home use / monitoring mixes at home? Good clarity and such at low volume levels?

Cheers.
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Nutshell, no, they're not. Clarity is always an issue with PA style speaker, amped or self powered, unless you shell out a lot; loud is more often the priority than is clarity.

Honestly, for home DJing, nothing bets proper amp + passive speakers hi fi system imo. Any PA is overkill unless you A) have a huge room to fill and B) can and do play at big volumes (otherwise, what's the point in a PA anyways?) and monitors are hard to listen to for great lengths at moderate/high volumes, plus often lacking oomph unless you get a minimum of an 8" driver.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi View Post

Nutshell, no, they're not. Clarity is always an issue with PA style speaker, amped or self powered, unless you shell out a lot; loud is more often the priority than is clarity.

Or just get a decent PA style speaker. :p

Currently listening to Nicky Bomba's Melbourne Ska Orchestra CD in the smallest room of the house on a pair of QSC K10 and a KW181, nearfield position, peaking nowhere beyond 72 to 74dBA, and the clarity, detail and depth is startling. Very studio monitor or quality hi-fi sounding.

BUT comes with the added bonus of being able to be cranked louder and louder and louder while retaining the clarity, and the ability to project and fill a larger space when required. Even acting as foldback duties for a gig sees a dual purpose. Complete with two handles, dual source inputs and inbuilt mixer, and a protective carry bag, it's a very versatile piece of kit.

And not trying to be a blatant QSC plug here, the JBL PRX6 series (the well respectable PRX612M are just $888 a box from JB at the moment), or Yamaha DSR series, the EV Live X series are all worth a mention, setting a new standard in PA gear with hi-fi fidelity.

Not to be knocked until tried.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi View Post

...and monitors are hard to listen to for great lengths at moderate/high volumes, plus often lacking oomph unless you get a minimum of an 8" driver.


So get a monitor with an 8" driver... or a PA speaker. Problemo solved.

Most 'hi-fi' - and I use the term loosely - bores me to tears. Lacks sparkle, or depth, and fails to really fill a room with any effortless excitement. Unless spending big $$$, in which case PA* gear starts looking the cheaper and more versatile option.



(*Sound Reinforcement is probably a better term than Public Address speaker, but we all get what it means).

Last edited by Spectrum: 01-May-13 at 04:06pm

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These on the other hand...



http://www.jbhifi.com.au/pro-dj/audi...ers-sku-88889/


...are fucking ridiculous, and not suitable for any purpose.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post

Currently listening to Nicky Bomba's Melbourne Ska Orchestra CD in the smallest room of the house on a pair of QSC K10 and a KW181, nearfield position, peaking nowhere beyond 72 to 74dBA, and the clarity, detail and depth is startling. Very studio monitor or quality hi-fi sounding.

Noice! Bomba is fucking awesome...saw him warmup for Directions In Groove, then come back out with a steel drum and have a drum-off with DIG's drummer...so epic!

What's that setup cost you though?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi View Post


What's that setup cost you though?

Yeah, spill Spectrum... I'm ok with shelling out for quality gear.
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Spectrum and RK cheers for the insights though, appreciated.
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No probs...I'm probably just linking my 'house use of PA' to be pretty aveage PA setup's, mates cheap ones or hired ones for the night...all pretty aveage...hence I haven't found them that great...whereas I used to get to play on my mum's BF's hi fi which was a good $3K+ on the speakers (which had these side mounted down ported 12" sub's and seperate sectioned mid/tweets) bi-wired from a straight up 2 channel power amp...no pro-logic bollocks getting in the way

Spend enough on either than it's always going to be awesome though, and Spectrum raised a good point about being more versatile
Pete Gordon - Deep and Low

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https://soundcloud.com/random_kiwi/deep-and-low
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi View Post

Noice! Bomba is fucking awesome...saw him warmup for Directions In Groove, then come back out with a steel drum and have a drum-off with DIG's drummer...so epic!

Yes!!! Directions In Groove! Another example of extraordinary Australian talent wasted against the glut of superficial festival dance music cheese and show pony punters.

Who is the DIG drummer these days? Is it still Terepai Richmond (absolutely superb, by the way)? I did work experience with a young 19-20yo Terepai circa 1990 when he was working at the Andy Evans Drumcraft shop in Commonwealth St, Surry Hills (pre the Billy Hyde merger, and the subsequent Allans merger). We'd go out and pick up all the Gretsch kit rentals from the various clubs/pubs about town, and at every single stop sign / traffic light, Terepai would rip out his sticks from the centre console and side pocket and smash out parradiddles along the dashboard of the van, which were totally cracked due to all the abuse.

Good times!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi View Post

...whereas I used to get to play on my mum's BF's hi fi which was a good $3K+ on the speakers (which had these side mounted down ported 12" sub's and seperate sectioned mid/tweets) bi-wired from a straight up 2 channel power amp...no pro-logic bollocks getting in the way

Nice one. But the irony is, hi-fi costs more ($3k on speakers, another, say, $1k on an amp) and yet tends to perform poorly when filling a larger space as the high end's typical dome tweeters spill out across a 180 degree semisphere direction, doesn't sustain the volume required, so standing back in the room all one hears is a wash of room reflections drowning out the definition of the muted direct sound.

An overly dramatic blanket statement?

Perhaps. However we are certainly seeing a shift towards waveguide horns for improved high frequency projection in hi-fi and home theatre applications, particularly the latter which demands upper SPL transients and sharp definition and direction.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Garjon View Post

Yeah, spill Spectrum... I'm ok with shelling out for quality gear.

Haha. Well respecting their need to remain competitive, lets say under $900 per K10 from Store DJ Sydney, a fellow ITM member works (still?) for them, though it was more than year ago, so not sure on pricing availability today. PM for details, not sure whethe he's still there these days.

And with the larger and wood reinforced 12" JBL PRX112M selling for a touch more than the 10" K10, it's a tougher call. But the K series can arguably (or not) sound better at lower volumes with the DEEP low end boost engaged, plus can take a dual RCA in without a separate mixer (perfect for home parties) even mix two line level sources - both features I have used extensively.

If adding a sub, the K series has a built in crossover in the top boxes, important if the sub doesn't feature hi-pass outputs for the top boxes. And I'm still undecided who does the better sub: QSC KW181 or the JBL 18" equivalent with the XLF tag in the model name.

Now compare to studio monitors with a decent full, loud sound, and better than most amplification, say, the Mackie HR824 mkII still sell for up to a grand a box.

Absolutely great in the studio and parties at home, but really struggle taken out into a venue. Vinyl wrap MDF cabinets ain't robust enough, no pole mounting option so at best sitting on tables and therefore masked by the first couple of people standing in front of them, and when attempting to raise the SPLs over a crowd noise in a larger space, it'll clip unless the low-end is switched out of them, and pushing them further will see them shutdown as they start running super hot.

Just the wrong tool for the job.

Last edited by Spectrum: 05-May-13 at 04:13am

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post

These on the other hand...



http://www.jbhifi.com.au/pro-dj/audi...ers-sku-88889/


...are fucking ridiculous, and not suitable for any purpose.

Mate, did you even read the product description?

AL15PLUS
-500w Nominal 98db
-3 XLR Inputs & 1 XLR Output
-Frequency Response 45hz -18khz
-With Light Effects

-With Light Effects

Off to JB right now.

Also Garjon, I'm just a little curious about your Pioneer monitors, are they the 5" or 8" version and how do you find them for DJ'ing?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post

Yes!!! Directions In Groove! Another example of extraordinary Australian talent wasted against the glut of superficial festival dance music cheese and show pony punters.

Not a fan of their latest album, however massive fan of Terepai.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectrum View Post

Yes!!! Directions In Groove! Another example of extraordinary Australian talent wasted against the glut of superficial festival dance music cheese and show pony punters.

Who is the DIG drummer these days? Is it still Terepai Richmond (absolutely superb, by the way)? I did work experience with a young 19-20yo Terepai circa 1990 when he was working at the Andy Evans Drumcraft shop in Commonwealth St, Surry Hills (pre the Billy Hyde merger, and the subsequent Allans merger). We'd go out and pick up all the Gretsch kit rentals from the various clubs/pubs about town, and at every single stop sign / traffic light, Terepai would rip out his sticks from the centre console and side pocket and smash out parradiddles along the dashboard of the van, which were totally cracked due to all the abuse.

Good times!

Yeah, Terepai on the skins indeed...him and Bomba playing off against each other was super awesome! Was the first time I'd ever seen them (being a Kiwi and they never came over the ditch much), they're a band I completely stumbled upon, found their 'Speakeasy' CD in a second hand record store, something about the cover drew me in without having a clue who they were or even what kind of music it was...loved it and ended up with most of their releases...have since lost Speakeasy over the years, sadly...
Pete Gordon - Deep and Low

Slower tempo but still with balls, deephouse, slow-mo, futurehouse, nudeep, indie, nudisco, hints of progressive, whatever the fuck you want to call it, just good shit! Get on it

https://soundcloud.com/random_kiwi/deep-and-low
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerik View Post

Not a fan of their latest album, however massive fan of Terepai.

I love it! Bit commerical on the tracks with the vocalists, but they're still fairly solid, and there's still the ambling 6min long mellow musical acid jazz excursions like the days of old.
Pete Gordon - Deep and Low

Slower tempo but still with balls, deephouse, slow-mo, futurehouse, nudeep, indie, nudisco, hints of progressive, whatever the fuck you want to call it, just good shit! Get on it

https://soundcloud.com/random_kiwi/deep-and-low
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Go PA defo
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dazza_b View Post

Also Garjon, I'm just a little curious about your Pioneer monitors, are they the 5" or 8" version and how do you find them for DJ'ing?

Dazza, they're pretty handy for making and playing music - very versatile. Good through most of the frequency ranges but fall short on really low end sub bass. Plenty of inputs which is handy. I've got the 5" version.
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Can someone please take a listen to these and report back...





http://www.questaudio.com.au/product...Quest_QSA_200i

8" drivers, fan cooled, stand mountable, tough plastic housing with steel grill.

Extending down to 70Hz, it would ideally be teamed up with a subwoofer (and would appear to require an external crossover of some sort too) for use out in a club/pub type venue.

Shouldn't be too over the top for home use, and it can be seen in use as DJ foldbacks in a club setting in one of their promo shots.

Curious to know how it sounds. Should be able to grab a pair for well under $1000. Aussie made too (assembled in Melbourne).
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Thanks Spectrum, I was looking at getting a Hifi setup as well but I think you've swayed me on the QSC K8s or K10s or the ones above.

The JBL Eons are supposed to be in the same range as well.

Following thread with interest.

Anyone on to some good stands for these (will be going in lounge room so want to look a bit nice)
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Look!!!! Sale!!! Sale!!! Sale!!!

https://www.storedj.com.au/attachmen...?ts=1369882839

Grab a pair of QSC K8 8" Powered PA Speaker - $689 each
Then add a QSC KW181 18" Powered Subwoofer for $1599

So there's a 3000 Watt RMS, extended range system, boasting high SPL yet still offering stellar fidelity for just $2977.00

Nothing would beat it for home use, and it's perfectly geared for the random house party or pub/bar gig. Rockin!


SIDENOTE: You can disregard my concerns re fan noise - one of my K10s fan thermostats is kicking in too low (ie. below 19 degrees, rather than above 24 degrees). I've been chatting with AVS forum members - serious home theatre buffs - and running 4 or 5 x K8 boxes all around the room hasn't presented any fan noise concerns. As for mine, well the 6 year warranty once I'm in a capital city will cover that. QSC also sell the complete amplifier module for around USD$430 to genuine owners.
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