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NSW Government "solution" to "alcohol fueled violence"

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NSW Government "solution" to "alcohol fueled violence"
It's pretty hard to work out which of these ideas is the dopiest:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/201052019/Fact-sheet

To help, here's the map of the lockout area:

https://twitter.com/Seanberry7news/s.../photo/1/large

Luckily, the Star is excluded, so BRB, just buying some Echo Entertainment shares.
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so fucking angry right now, basically the whole of sydney's nightlife is getting shut down. except for the casinos (notice the oh so convenient area of barangaroo not being included)
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I'm actually strangely impressed at the level of incompetence of a government that decides to turf out every drunk person in Sydney onto the street, pissing them all off at the same time as taxi change over. Gold medal policy

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Originally Posted by RaVeR_SpIkE View Post

all i can say is fuck you ref you fuckhead

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Utterly ridiculous.
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fuck this shit. let's fight it every step of the way.
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I was hoping LA would would comment/start a thread on this.
Barry O'Fartcrap blustering out his egghead again.

Of course Packer gets his way...and look at that little Hemmes, whose venues are responsible for enough eye-opening incident reports is all gleeful and shit.

So, just how, as Miss Cunningham suggests, do we fight this shit? As if there isn't enough actual factual evidence to show this as a stupid idea rather than our idiot media rally up the support of our nation's idiots.

Mr. LA, what are the chances of this legislation getting approved/passed do you reckon?
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So if the casino is exempt does that mean Marquee is also?
I see no problem with placing restrictions on venues that are proven to have more than their share of violent assaults but I don't see this working, or lasting long term.

It might be interesting to see if this pushes parties to new areas or encourages BYO events or illegal parties.

Like many people have already said a lot of these attacks that have prompted this measure have happened early in the evening and have being perpetrated by people who have not been inside licensed venues in the area.
A crack down on steroid use and a culture of seeing UFC fighters as sportsmen or people to emulate seems to be the problem.

But anyway, these measures aren't put in place to solve problems but to appease voters making a lot of noise about the issue.
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224 people died in accidents during daylight hours on NSW roads in 2013. If all the people responsible had of had a good night sleep the previous night then a lot of tragedy may have been avoided.

Driving vehicles on the road should be illegal between the hours of 9pm and 6am when respectable people are all in bed or on their couches watching various current affair shows.

#poloticology101
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"venues can stay open but not serve", yeah right, show me a venue that will actually stay open when the booze stops selling, pointless !
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It's fine. I'll setup a bootleg bar in one of the many small laneways in the CBD. Move it around every so often, always staying in the shadows.

That fat cat Barry O'farrell will never know what hit him.


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Really though, write letters to Bazza's office and your local MP. Voice your concerns and ask what will be done about them.
There are change.org petitions going around like this one, however I'm not sure what effect these have.
https://www.change.org/petitions/bar...dney-nightlife.
Although the grammar and spelling in the explanation make it a bit hard to read and IMO makes people take it less seriously.
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Last edited by m_xt: 21-Jan-14 at 04:13pm

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Do these petitions work.....?

We're facing more than just a crisis of our personal nightlife entertainment here. We're facing a massive economic cull to our industry here.
If you are a DJ and have a set after 3am, you can kiss goodbye to any set prior to that if you can't make it from one to the next in time.

How about bartenders, glassies, doorladies/boys, those who picked up shifts on these extended hours, not forgetting the cleaners, the suppliers and general sales/turnover netted by the extended trading hours and often the domain of younger adults and students.

What about the issue again of smoking and not being able to exit a club after 3am?
Maybe it's time for more unions - a DJs Union for a start....

I could go on all day pointing out the idiocy, but it's all obvious to you.

WHAT can we actually, effectively do, to get our concerns across to the relevant people, and those able to stop this fucking asshole.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmenyC View Post

Do these petitions work.....?

I have no idea. I have participated in similar ones in regards to issues around community radio that FBi was running, I received emails back from the relevant person's secretary and an actual letter from my local MP. But I gave my address and not just email for those (I guess maybe they could check against an electoral role to determine I was a real person and not just capable of sending the same email from a number of email addresses?).
Try sending some actual letters to relevant people see what happens. You could try and contact media and voice your concerns? Maybe the ABC?
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such typical knee jerk reactions by politicians, offering nothing more than short term solutions, to make them look like they're doing something about the issue
Cracking down harder on violence is a step in the right direction, for sure. But punishing the 99.9% of people for the 0.1% of idiots is just stupid.
The illogical "solutions" and the exclusions, are just deplorable.
Yes, lets throw everyone out on the street at the same time, right when cabs are doing change over. what could possibly go wrong
such an incompetent government.


and those petitions do nothing imo.
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ps - im gonna make this thread a sticky for a while. might actually create some discussion in this forum for the first time since elvis died?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by special ed View Post

Cracking down harder on violence is a step in the right direction, for sure.

Is it?

How many of these meatheads going out for a fight actually stop to think about the consequences of their actions? Is some drunken twat going to suddenly reconsider punching on because he might cop an additional two years?
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of course not, but with mandatory jail time, that one less meathead of the street. Its not the answer, but it alone is a start. The rest of the governments 'solution', however, is not.
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Current laws can still take that meathead off the street though.

Mandatory sentencing is a dangerous route to take...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by nickko View Post

Is it?

How many of these meatheads going out for a fight actually stop to think about the consequences of their actions? Is some drunken twat going to suddenly reconsider punching on because he might cop an additional two years?

I don't think it's been "drunken twats" each time with the king hits though. That's what's been lost in all of this I reckon.

Venues being punished with lockouts & restrictions on what time drinks can be served is pathetic. Can't recall any of these incidents happening in a club.
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It's hard not to feel a bit powerless here, eh?

Maybe we need to form some kind of opposing body who'll make the same kind of noise about this Fairfax et al have, fronted by articulate, intelligent people who the mainstream media will take seriously. Obviously ITM will be covering this extensively and kicking up a stink wherever possible.

The petition thing is a start, but there's about ten million of them floating around already which makes it hard. Maybe I'll try to find the biggest/most coherently written one tomorrow and write a story pointing people towards it?
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I'm kind of for the idea of writing actual letters. They are much harder to ignore and and show you have taken time and effort, this is likely to be interpreted as you representing the views of more people.
The change.org petition I posted here earlier (and have seen floating around facebook) is terribly written and portrays people who sign it in a bad light IMO.
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I believe someone posted the following on FB:


**** wrote: "So a colleague of mine was contemplating about Arrested Development.

"Just like the lovers of Arrested Development sent bananas to the studio, I think we should all post our empty beer bottles and booze bottles to Barry O'Farrell's office/house etc. If you're going to protest, it has to be effective. He deserved to be as annoyed as we are."


I'd do it, a physical protest. More than an 'annoyance' it replicates the impracticality of their knee-jerk response.

That said, the discussion around the dinner table provided some interesting points.
Studies in Newcastle (AU) and in Norway provided some positive outcomes of this type of enforcement, in NCL, the rate of insidents dropped 37% and in Norway, the States reflected a decrease in homicides - and these Coward Punches are now being treated as homicide I believe...

The fact is, if the perpertrators find their cab fare and time spent in the CBD etc is reduced, they may think twice about making the trip out to get on the piss....maybe then they'll drink more at home though and beat up on their wives and mates at home....

Studies also showed that the greater amount of incidents occured between the later and wee hours, but surely logic dictates that people - like burglars, feel like they can get away with more after dark/late..so let's just lock the city down after 9pm in summer...

Fact remains, it all boils down to the fact that the greater issue of the culture of violence and not being addressed.

If you're looking for the vehicle to get on board with this, you need to look at people in the Economic sector who can contribute to this with a profile - businesses and personalities. Ever been into Frankies on a Sunday night? You'll find a lot of notable and loved Sydney chefs knocking back a cold one. What do you think they and the staff reckon, of a venue, incident-free from my knowledge think about this? These are the voices that need to represent. It's all good and well for dicks like Hemmes to agree, his turnover shits on the smaller, independant business and the double-standards for Packer and the Casino...disgusting.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by JovanS View Post


Venues being punished with lockouts & restrictions on what time drinks can be served is pathetic. Can't recall any of these incidents happening in a club.

Yeah it's ridiculous, but it's been something that the 2UE's, 2GB's and the like have been trying to stir up for the best part of 5 years but they've always run into decent competition with the AHA and other industry bodies. Unfortunately the rest of the media have gone on a frenzy with the 2 latest high profile cases and it's stirred up the yokels and given BOF an agenda.

Been living away from Sydney the last few years so haven't quite kept up with the state politics... but I'm guessing there is an election not too far around the corner? Seems like the kind of thing a state government that hasn't been performing too well might pull to win the popular vote without caring who they piss off in the short term...?
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Here is a petition people can print of and have people sign. Could be good for those who work for or with venues?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uhnljsl9ew0x0j0/Petition.pdf
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here is a petition i have signed

Dear Friends,

I just signed the campaign: Fight Barry O'Farrell's New Alcohol Service and Lockout Legislation!

It would mean the world to me if you could also add your name to this important issue. Every name that is added builds momentum around the campaign and makes it more likely for us to get the change we want to see.

Will you join me by taking action on this campaign?

http://www.communityrun.org/petition...bd-legislation

After you've signed the petition please also take a moment to share it with others. It's super easy – all you need to do is forward this email.

Thank you!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmenyC View Post

Studies in Newcastle (AU) and in Norway provided some positive outcomes of this type of enforcement, in NCL, the rate of insidents dropped 37% .

i am so fucking sick of people trying to use that a shining example. Anyone who currently lives or has lived in Newcastle can tell you any "success" reported is 100% bullshit. Incidents just occur further away from venues where they are reported less, usually after lockout. Any decrease in violence in venues is more attributable to the fact that ID Scanners were introduced in a MAJORITY of the major pubs, now the meatheaded scum just migrate to the 24 Hour McDonalds on King St to pick fights.

It even mentions in this article http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hitting-th...719-2q9w0.html , that alcohol related violent incidents increased by 50% in the two years proceeding the changes, and were reduced only 37% in the 18 months following. Yet somehow; what is still a 17% overall increase in violence which now occurs in a shorter time frame due to operating hours and more often in places that lack the security of licensed venues, is considered a "solution"?!?!?!.
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Also, wasn't the decrease in Newcastle more or less in line with a statewide decrease in alcohol-related violence?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by howzitgarn View Post

i am so fucking sick of people trying to use that a shining example. Anyone who currently lives or has lived in Newcastle can tell you any "success" reported is 100% bullshit. Incidents just occur further away from venues where they are reported less, usually after lockout. Any decrease in violence in venues is more attributable to the fact that ID Scanners were introduced in a MAJORITY of the major pubs, now the meatheaded scum just migrate to the 24 Hour McDonalds on King St to pick fights.

It even mentions in this article http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hitting-th...719-2q9w0.html , that alcohol related violent incidents increased by 50% in the two years proceeding the changes, and were reduced only 37% in the 18 months following. Yet somehow; what is still a 17% overall increase in violence which now occurs in a shorter time frame due to operating hours and more often in places that lack the security of licensed venues, is considered a "solution"?!?!?!.

Should open another KFC and let the boofheads cark it from heart disease...

This is my big issue too.
What are the other social & cultural factors surrounding these studies, and which studies and recommendations/authourities are they taking these suggestions on-board from, we're not just in a Nanny-state, we're at the mercy of these fuckwits with no say.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by nickko View Post

Also, wasn't the decrease in Newcastle more or less in line with a statewide decrease in alcohol-related violence?

There was also quite a bit of anecdotal evidence about police dissuading people who had been involved in minor scuffles not to make a formal report so that there were fewer incidents recorded.

However, even if you accept that shutting venues earlier means that people aren't out and about late at night, it doesn't follow that this solves any of the problems currently identified, for the following reasons:

- 3 a.m. is an idiotic time to throw people out given that it is cab changeover time. Are venues going to be able to cover the costs of security, bar staff and so forth after 3 a.m. selling lemon squash? Think about the events you've been at which have closed down earlier than advertised because bar sales have been too slow, and tell me what you think the answer to that one is.

- The lockout zone is arbitrary and there are plenty of venues outside the zone which trade for extended hours, most notably the venues at the Star. If you get turfed out of the Cross at 3, then (after you've spent half an hour brawling while you wait for the cabs to change over) you can go down to the Star to get back on the turps.

- The lockouts would have done nothing to prevent the deaths of Thomas Kelly or Daniel Christie, who were both attacked before 11 p.m. If people start drinking earlier as the attackers of Kelly and Christie allegedly did, all this does is to move the problem to an earlier part of the night, when more people are out and about.

- The premise of shutting early is that people get continuously drunker while they are in a venue. As anyone who goes out clubbing knows, this is, for most people, nonsense. Many people who leave a club at 6 are no more drink than they were at 3, because drinking heavily kinda defeats the point of staying up late (and makes it hard to dance). This is part of an over-arching issue about policy being made for those who like up late by those who haven't stayed up late for 20 years.
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^^ So true, LA. Part of what's so incredibly frustrating about this whole thing is that the package was so clearly put together by people who completely lack any understanding of club culture or the actual drinking habits of young people. The idea they think they can deter people from pre-drinking at all is pretty hilar.

Anyway keep these great points coming y'all, I am making a note of them all.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post


- The premise of shutting early is that people get continuously drunker while they are in a venue. As anyone who goes out clubbing knows, this is, for most people, nonsense. Many people who leave a club at 6 are no more drink than they were at 3, because drinking heavily kinda defeats the point of staying up late (and makes it hard to dance). This is part of an over-arching issue about policy being made for those who like up late by those who haven't stayed up late for 20 years.

Are you drink right now, LA?

See Katie, the problem remains, that the powers that (unfortunately) be, do not care, nor accommodate for the clubbing culture we know. We are but a 'freak-minority'.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmenyC View Post

. We are but a 'freak-minority'.

Pretty much, most people who want to get in to a venue after 1.30 have probably been at a house party until then or at a suburban pub. Not many people are going to their first venue or going from work to a venue, or even going from one venue to another to see another DJ they like.
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Oh well, Hello juice bars.

Issue still remains, the people directly employed in the industry - DJ's not being able to gain access after 1.30am, bouncers, bartenders (now serving coffees) etc...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmenyC View Post

DJ's not being able to gain access after 1.30am

Surely DJ's would be seen as staff and not included in this?
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Why don't they do exactly what Melbourne did, only to realise it doesn't work, and then repeal it! :massive eye roll:
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Quote:

Originally Posted by m_xt View Post

Surely DJ's would be seen as staff and not included in this?

ADL is fighting this currently, not 100% sure what happened, but what if you're the DJ's partner/friend/driver?
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http://www.olgr.nsw.gov.au/liquor_review.asp - Link to a report over 5 years, published in 2013, regarding amendements to alcohol-related legislation in NSW.

Some interesting stats after a quick skim, particularly graph 3 which demonstrates a 28% decrease in violent incidents on NSW licenced venues and graph 5 which shows a decline in the alcohol-related domestic and non-domestic assaults in New South Wales from 2008 to 2012. Alcohol consumption in Australia has decreased over that same period of time, notwithstanding a dramatic increase in the number of licenced venues. If you're a baby-boomer-basher like me, you'll note that alcohol consumption in Australia was at its highest when Mr O'Farrell's generation was aged 18-30. Irrespective of the timing of this report, I still find it hard to believe that, had Tom Kelly and Daniel Christie not died, the laws which relate to lockouts/non-service of alcohol would be so strict and far-reaching.In other words, Baz is pandering to the negative-gearers who are selling up their suburban mansions and moving into their inner-city retirement hubs on the back of a couple of unfortunate incidents. In fact, Big Baz said he wouldn't attend Daniel Christie's funeral so as not to politicise the issue - something I bought at the time. Now I doubt it.

I live right near the corner of Oxford and Liverpool Streets in Darlinghurst. Needless to say, I can't wait for the waves of people that will flow across the park and down william street to get to the other end of Slurry. A world without a the opition of night-cap at the Gaslight... I'm not sure it's one I want to live in!

edit: fixed link up
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Quote:

Originally Posted by katiecunningham View Post

Anyway keep these great points coming y'all, I am making a note of them all.

Careful, a Sydney Morning Herald journo thinks we are all in the pocket of the alcohol industry, which obviously we must be, if we have any view different from that of the noble* and learned** campaign the the SMH has been running:

https://twitter.com/bencubby/status/425775699073314816


* Not noble

** Not learned, either
But we're fools if we sit back and stare at the ground
While the weasels and analysts sing
If we want our place in history, we can't let the frustration
Drive us to fashionable drinking again
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ah fsck it. attachment was too large.
If you need me, I'll be in space.
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I can't wait for the first night of this when assaults increase by a factor of 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaVeR_SpIkE View Post

all i can say is fuck you ref you fuckhead

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So what's the deal with this peaceful protest tomorrow?

Who has organised it? Was a notification sent to the Po. 7 days ago?
Are there marshalls organised?
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I'll go down, see for myself and report back. The Music and Club/Event industry is full of mostly intelligent, peaceful people who I doubt would escalate it into anything more than a peaceful demonstration.
My concern is if the protest also has gatherings of people outside of these industries who are just there to make a noise and get in on the action who could become a further misrepresentation to the media (who will undoubtedly be watching it eagerly) of the potential violence they're moving to avoid with these legislative changes.
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Heading down also. Hopefully it all runs smoothly. We'll find out!
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Wheels are in motion guys! We have some pretty big support coming our way

I spoke at todays Save Our Nightlife Rally. Here is a transcript of my speech.

"There are many people standing here today as public safety and our very livelihood is at threat with the introduction of 1:30am lockouts and 3am last drinks.

We stand here as:

- We are passionate about Sydney's nightlife and vibrant music culture.

- We love working in an industry that brings people together in a safe and regulated environment.

- We are sick of politicians making public policy in order to consolidate their power regardless of the real consequences of their actions.

- We want a safe Sydney where people can enjoy themselves on the weekend without experiencing alcohol related violence.

- We want real solutions that will get results.

We need to be taking an evidence based approach at solving the problems associated with alcohol fuelled violence.
This includes looking at existing case studies and scientific research together with consultation with community and industry leaders.

The liberal party has bought into the media hysteria caused by the tragic deaths of two young men in our community. In order to secure a second term, they have brushed aside all logic and reason and have proposed measures that will not only hit our industry, our livelihood, our civil liberties, our vibrant music culture, but also endanger our community by pushing people onto the street at the same time without the logistics and resources to cope with the 1:30am lockout and 3am last drinks.
2am lockouts were introduced in Melbourne and it was found that during the time that lockouts were trialled, alcohol fuelled violence went up. We cannot let that happen here in Sydney.

Our goal is to stand here united and let the O'Farrell government know that this community will not give up till our industry, livelihood and streets are made safe with the abolition of these abhorrent proposed laws.

It's now time for us to take action. We need to become organised and commit ourselves to making sure that every job lost, every venue closure, every violent assault that has been caused by these lockouts is visible to our community and media.

We will need graphic designers, web site builders, animators, video editors, public relations and marketing specialists to help create a multimedia campaign to SAVE OUR NIGHTLIFE.

We also need people like you to participant in rallies like this and engage in social media. We need people like you to write to our media, to write to our politicians and to campaign to SAVE OUR NIGHTLIFE.

These laws will be passed and it's up to us to highlight the catastrophic effect this will have on our community. Only then can they be repealed and we can once again have a safer and vibrant Sydney.

It doesn’t end here, the journey continues and together we can SAVE OUR NIGHTLIFE."
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hi telly
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Gigs & stuff - Dave Stuart - DJ Page


SHRUG
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how did it all go on friday??
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Hi Dave...

Rally went well. Got some media attention which was good.

Got the conversation going. Turn out was good! Some people wished there was more but the movement will grow.
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http://www.theherald.com.au/story/20...-blame/?cs=305

of particular interest is the last few paragraphs:

Quote:

DESPITE a stringent set of restrictions being imposed on clubs and pubs in Newcastle for the past five years, alcohol-related assaults in the city haven’t decreased any more than in similar-sized cities in NSW.

The Newcastle Herald compiled figures using the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research showing that assaults in licensed premises in Newcastle dropped almost 30per cent from September 2008 to September 2013.

This drop occurred after the so-called ‘‘Newcastle solution’’ was introduced following a string of late-night attacks in the city.

Yet violence has been curtailed at a higher rate in some NSW cities of similar size.

In Penrith, alcohol-related assaults in the same period were down 56.16per cent, in Wollongong they were down 30.97per cent and in the Sutherland Shire down 47.7 per cent.

Gosford (down 28.8per cent) reduced assaults about on par with Newcastle

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I've been actively trying to stop this from happening for 4 years. Leading up to this, Thomas Kelly's death was blamed on Kings Cross Licensed Premises, but after the government legislated against us in a way that totally disregarded our common law rights, it came out that we never served the guy that hit Thomas Kelly a drink.

We watched the Police Association and Police Commissioner interfere with the law makers and distort the lines of the Constitutional Doctrine of Separation of Powers. Police pushed for the lock outs and early closes.

As the mainstream press exaggerate the story and create public hysteria and the premier announced the Lock outs and 3PM cessation of trade.

So common law rights were disregarded, constitutional principles blurred and now we are watching a deprivation of civil liberties as economic and cultural activity becomes recessed in our central night economy. This will means jobs lost and associated businesses will suffer that will compound the problem. And the night economy connects to our day economy and further compounding of the problem.

We are all being punished through bad laws for the actions of a miniscule minority of sad, violent and ugly people.

We have no choice other than to resist, petition and rally. What is happening is seriously, really very very bad. It's unbelievable..
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Hi guys!

There will be a protest/rally today in the city.

Hope you can make it down

https://www.facebook.com/events/3892...y_type=regular

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