Sport and Fitness

The running thread

Closed thread
  Tools
airconteka +

moving sideways in a forward motion

airconteka's Avatar
Joined
Dec '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,882
Thanked 12,697 Times in 6,102 Posts
Posts
22,984
The long run is the most important part of your training, I would be working everything else around that
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
^ yah but the other stuff is work. I can't not do it.
airconteka +

moving sideways in a forward motion

airconteka's Avatar
Joined
Dec '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,882
Thanked 12,697 Times in 6,102 Posts
Posts
22,984
Not sure what the intensity of your work stuff is but it could be considered active recovery. I'd really recommend that you get at least 4 decent long runs in >28km, not sure how many you've done but the long run is really where you get your mental training which is where you need to find strength in the last few kms
Unspoilt by Progress
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
^ yeah good advice. ok cool. the saturday session is pretty cruisey so I can treat it as an active recovery. I think mentally I would be upset to miss this run as it would be the last long run. maybe I use saturday as my recovery/prep day for sunday long run (~36km)..
next weekend I was going to do a shorter run (~21km).
then taper week:
monday: pump & attck (but can go light in legs in pump)
tuesday: leg conditioning circuit & attack
wednesday: speed session
thursday: 7km tempo
friday: rest
saturday: 5km easy
sunday race day.
seem ok?
airconteka +

moving sideways in a forward motion

airconteka's Avatar
Joined
Dec '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,882
Thanked 12,697 Times in 6,102 Posts
Posts
22,984
Yeah, I'd probably drop the tempo back to 5km and the speed session isn't going to help you on race day so I'd have a rest on that day.
Unspoilt by Progress
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
thanks - appreciated.
Anselm +

objects to ITMbook

Anselm's Avatar
Joined
Jan '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 270
Thanked 1,626 Times in 978 Posts
Posts
14,397

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotamangina View Post

"Runners run because they love running. Joggers jog because they love cake and, to a lesser extent, fitting into their trousers"...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...uart-heritage1

I think most of us can call ourselves runners, not joggers by this measure

What if you run like a runner, but only because you love beer?
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937
Serious question: what does a 5km tempo run achieve?
airconteka +

moving sideways in a forward motion

airconteka's Avatar
Joined
Dec '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,882
Thanked 12,697 Times in 6,102 Posts
Posts
22,984
Not a great deal, just good to run some kms at race pace in the lead up
Unspoilt by Progress
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
purely keeping my legs ticking over too.
before all races I always do light sessions on the days leading up - nothing strenuous or intense: 4-5km runs at 5:30/km-5:40/km generally.
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937

Quote:

Originally Posted by airconteka View Post

Not a great deal, just good to run some kms at race pace in the lead up

Tempo pace is quite a lot faster than race pace though. I can understand doing some km's at race pace, but I'd generally do something more like 15-20, or do a fast finish to my long run.

I'd do 5km at race pace in the week before the race as part of a taper, or maybe as a recovery run the day after the long run, but otherwise it seems to me to be junk miles. Mischa, what exactly do you mean by "tempo run"?
airconteka +

moving sideways in a forward motion

airconteka's Avatar
Joined
Dec '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,882
Thanked 12,697 Times in 6,102 Posts
Posts
22,984
The guideline I was given for the pace of a tempo run during marathon training was somewhere between your half and full pace. So I'd say it isn't at a significantly higher pace. Agree on the fast finishing long run.
Unspoilt by Progress
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
ahh sorry, meant more of a race pace run.

also, I know personal preference, but how many gels did you use?
one long run I used two (I don't feel it made a massive difference, but at the same time it did give me something to look forward to!), and then last week I forgot and didn't use any, but felt awesome. I think it was more to do with my nutrition the day before then the gels though. Just not sure whether to fuck them altogether, and maybe just swig some sports drink at the drink stations. carrying gels is annoying but not impossible.
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937
I think Jack Daniels says tempo pace is more like your 10km pace. So based on a 4 hour marathon, your race pace is 5:41 min/km, equivalent half mara pace would be 5:30 min/km, 10km pace would be 5:14 min/km and threshold/tempo pace is about 5:11 min/km. Anyway, as long as you don't stop running altogether in your final week (and don't run so hard that you get injured), I think you'll be fine.

If you're running for longer than about 2 hours, you'll need some form of sustenance (unless you're properly fat adapted - but that's a story for Nads to tell). I strongly doubt that you'll be able to drink enough sports drink to give you the energy you need, so I'd highly recommend gels. I think the guideline of one every 45 minutes works quite well, at least for me. If you've been using Gu, it's good to have the gel when you see the sign announcing the aid station is coming up, then you can just grab some water and keep on trucking. If having gels is "something to look forward to", you truly are a sick puppy.

This might be helpful:
http://www.hammernutrition.com.au/in...mer-nutrition/
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
hahaha. yeah sorry - misuse of tempo. easy run really. my 10km pace is much faster than that anyway! FIGJAM.

yeah true re sports drink and not nice when you drink it on the run and get it all over yourself. might try and take 2-3 gels. I don't mind the taste!

meanwhile a marathon in 4hours is 5:40/km. might be a tad unrealisitc, my last 33km run I would be ok to do that, but the one before was bad. the fun of the first race I guess! at this stage I'm purely training for distance rather than time.

thanks for all your advice lads!
airconteka +

moving sideways in a forward motion

airconteka's Avatar
Joined
Dec '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,882
Thanked 12,697 Times in 6,102 Posts
Posts
22,984
If you don't do a sub 3:45 ill eat my hat. Please do it as I am running out of hats.
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
ha start fasting

or shopping for a really tiny hat
Derelict +

Derpcore gets the derpy dollars

Derelict's Avatar
Joined
Oct '08
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,897
Thanked 5,918 Times in 3,420 Posts
Posts
29,575
big eddie +

Got soju?

big eddie's Avatar
Joined
Jan '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 8,024
Thanked 17,049 Times in 7,537 Posts
Posts
51,619

Quote:

Originally Posted by mischa21 View Post

hahaha. yeah sorry - misuse of tempo. easy run really. my 10km pace is much faster than that anyway! FIGJAM.

yeah true re sports drink and not nice when you drink it on the run and get it all over yourself. might try and take 2-3 gels. I don't mind the taste!

meanwhile a marathon in 4hours is 5:40/km. might be a tad unrealisitc, my last 33km run I would be ok to do that, but the one before was bad. the fun of the first race I guess! at this stage I'm purely training for distance rather than time.

thanks for all your advice lads!

Take gels that you like - good luck. It's the best and worst thing you'll ever do.

When you're hurting in the last 7-8 clicks, remember you've put the hours in already and it's all in your head.

Go for it.
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
thanks Eddie. not for two weeks still. I'm a bit excited about it though - if it feels better than how I feel at the end of a long run, it must be pretty awesome!
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937
I just confirmed my registration for the WTF 50 miler in WA in September.
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
that shit cray
Dj Whisper +

Bouncing off clouds

Dj Whisper's Avatar
Joined
Feb '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 412
Thanked 1,092 Times in 588 Posts
Posts
5,958
june - first 13 days = 67km @ 4.52
next 17 days = 17km @ 4.55

achilles still fucked
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937
A review of the actual research that's been done on the benefits and risks of barefoot running:

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/48/5/349...4-65b7c580966a

Maybe don't throw away those shoes just yet.
little_brad +

Registered User

little_brad's Avatar
Joined
Oct '02
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 904
Thanked 4,997 Times in 2,426 Posts
Posts
9,974
http://www.readytorunbook.com/
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937
"The current promotion of barefoot running is based on oversimplified, poorly understood, equivocal and in some cases, absent research, but remains a trend in popular media based solely on an evolutionary/epidemiological hypothesis and anecdotal evidence."
little_brad +

Registered User

little_brad's Avatar
Joined
Oct '02
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 904
Thanked 4,997 Times in 2,426 Posts
Posts
9,974
Sorry I haven't read the whole article, what is the recommendation then?

Should we run in conventional running shoes which shorten our heel cords and heel strike?
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937
Copy/pasta:

Quote:

Footstrike
There has been something of a preoccupation with the footstrike as a marker for clinical risk with barefoot running, presumably since it is relatively easily measured. The fundamental premise is that a forefoot strike, associated with flatter foot placement at touchdown,40 ,41 greater plantarflexion and greater knee flexion angle on impact, distribute the impact force across a greater surface area than the heel alone, thus cushioning the impact. Further, it has been proposed that the plantar fascia is used to create a support system for the arch of the foot and acts as a shock absorber and facilitate elastic restitution during running,41 ,42 and the shift to a more anterior footstrike changes the distribution of eccentric forces across the joints, with an increase in ankle eccentric work and concomitant decrease in loading on the knee joint.43

Complicating the discussion, however, is disagreement in findings relating footstrike to running speed. Hasegawa et al44 and Hayes and Caplan45 found that forefoot striking is more prevalent among faster runners, whereas Larson et al found no difference in footstrike among recreational runners with varying performance abilities. Further, discrepancies may have also been a result of both sample population (recreational vs competitive) and size. The strict characterisation of barefoot runners as forefoot strikers and shod runners as heel strikers is an oversimplification, and possibly incorrect.45 ,46 Indeed, a recent study by Hatala et al showed that heel striking was relatively common among a habitually barefoot population, with 72% landing on their heels at their preferred running speed. Although, as running speed increased, footstrike shifted towards the forefoot, but a significant percentage (40%) remains heel strikers. Thus, the suggestion that barefoot running is synonymous with forefoot striking is thus inaccurate and may obscure the real kinematic differences and their effects on injury risk.47 Interestingly, landing surfaces have been shown to influence the footstrike pattern in runners similarly to the different shoe conditions (and the absence of shoes). Thus, these surface differences may explain discrepancies and unusual findings in different studies and should be noted in future studies involving running.48

Nevertheless, numerous studies have associated footstrike with injury risk. Most recently Daoud et al49 found that runners who habitually rearfoot strike incur a higher injury rate of repetitive stress injuries when compared with runners who mostly forefoot strike. The authors propose that the absence of the impact peak in the ground reaction force during a forefoot strike compared with a rearfoot strike may contribute to lower rates of injury. If this hypothesis is correct, there may be many implications for the running community. However, it must be noted that this study account for performance ability, and the small sample size of 52 runners were divided into 36 rearfoot strikers and 16 forefoot strikers in each group, suggests that further research is required, with larger populations, equally distributed strike types, the type of runner and over a longer period. Alongside this, to categorise footstrike patterns in three clusters may be somewhat reductionist when foot striking has been shown to exist as a spectrum.50

The argument for barefoot running based on this research must however be understood in the light of research from Lieberman et al which found that some habitually shod individuals who run barefoot experience greater impact peaks and rates of loading than habitually barefoot runners.51 This is presumably because they do not adjust their footstrike and continue to land on the heel, exposing them to loading rates sevenfold greater than when in shoes.18 Thus, barefoot running is not by itself sufficient to produce this purported reduction in injury risk, and the transition, which is the logical clinical implication of the advice given to runners, may increase risk, albeit transiently.

Astro-Boy +

Astro-Boy's Avatar
Joined
Oct '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 29,245
Thanked 23,515 Times in 10,717 Posts
Posts
40,871
The dude who set a course record (4:14) for the 56km Two Bays this year posted this on the Roller Coaster Run FB page:

Hi all,
I'm looking to get involved in some long training runs and was wondering if you know any fast paced ultra running groups that run over the weekends? I'm starting to train for my first solo 100km in October and am aiming for a 7:30-7:45 for the event. A Sunday group would be ideal and anything up to 80km I would be happy to run.

And followed up with:

It will be 2 weeks after a hopeful sub 2:30 Melbourne marathon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

Bism +

Bism's Avatar
Joined
Mar '08
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 6,677
Thanked 18,335 Times in 7,068 Posts
Posts
21,757
How much can he bench.
big eddie +

Got soju?

big eddie's Avatar
Joined
Jan '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 8,024
Thanked 17,049 Times in 7,537 Posts
Posts
51,619
Bit of a meataxe He can pickup the 20kg bag of rice from Coles without help.
WalterBrown +

Registered User

WalterBrown's Avatar
Joined
Mar '14
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,264
Thanked 517 Times in 313 Posts
Posts
1,352
Ever since I haven't shaved, old people in Woolworths keep asking me where stuff is

I know i should be offended, but i don't have the heart to tell them i don't work there,

So i usually end up just telling them and going on my merry way
Bism +

Bism's Avatar
Joined
Mar '08
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 6,677
Thanked 18,335 Times in 7,068 Posts
Posts
21,757
In hindsight, the S&F merge with Lifestyle was a poor idea.
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937
Very good read about exercise-associated muscle cramping:
http://www.irunfar.com/2013/07/cramp...#idc-container
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067
http://eastsidecrew.com.au/running-t...-lara-tamsett/

good tips for anyone doing C2S. interesting to see her training program - pretty intense!
10 x 400m anyone? shiit.
airconteka +

moving sideways in a forward motion

airconteka's Avatar
Joined
Dec '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,882
Thanked 12,697 Times in 6,102 Posts
Posts
22,984
Good luck meggles. Just remember to never stop, slow down but never stop
Unspoilt by Progress
Bism +

Bism's Avatar
Joined
Mar '08
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 6,677
Thanked 18,335 Times in 7,068 Posts
Posts
21,757
He's wrong, stop. Always stop. Save your energy for the sprint at the end.
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937
Yep, good luck!
mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bism View Post

He's wrong, stop. Always stop. Save your energy for the sprint at the end.

that 12km sprint from the 30k mark. haha

thanks y'all - really pumped for it.
airconteka +

moving sideways in a forward motion

airconteka's Avatar
Joined
Dec '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,882
Thanked 12,697 Times in 6,102 Posts
Posts
22,984

Quote:

Originally Posted by airconteka View Post

If you don't do a sub 3:45 ill eat my hat. Please do it as I am running out of hats.

Get fucked, 3:45 on the dot
airconteka +

moving sideways in a forward motion

airconteka's Avatar
Joined
Dec '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,882
Thanked 12,697 Times in 6,102 Posts
Posts
22,984
Great run though!
Astro-Boy +

Astro-Boy's Avatar
Joined
Oct '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 29,245
Thanked 23,515 Times in 10,717 Posts
Posts
40,871
Nicely done Meg.
Dj Whisper +

Bouncing off clouds

Dj Whisper's Avatar
Joined
Feb '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 412
Thanked 1,092 Times in 588 Posts
Posts
5,958
Nice one
Astro-Boy +

Astro-Boy's Avatar
Joined
Oct '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 29,245
Thanked 23,515 Times in 10,717 Posts
Posts
40,871
Holy hell, negative split too.

Derelict +

Derpcore gets the derpy dollars

Derelict's Avatar
Joined
Oct '08
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,897
Thanked 5,918 Times in 3,420 Posts
Posts
29,575
Has somebody deleted a post?
Astro-Boy +

Astro-Boy's Avatar
Joined
Oct '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 29,245
Thanked 23,515 Times in 10,717 Posts
Posts
40,871
Nah. Meg posted her bib # for the GC marathon in the sports thread a hwhile ago, but in the interests of privacy it's probably better to not directly link to her results.
Derelict +

Derpcore gets the derpy dollars

Derelict's Avatar
Joined
Oct '08
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,897
Thanked 5,918 Times in 3,420 Posts
Posts
29,575
Fair enough, thought she may have posted her Garmin details then removed it as only Pete can do better
DuncanM +

ITM Contributor

DuncanM's Avatar
Joined
Jun '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,248
Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,073 Posts
Posts
6,937
Good stuff!
Tobi +

Puck Bunny

Tobi's Avatar
Joined
Oct '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,201
Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,209 Posts
Posts
5,333
Congrats Meg!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

http://theclimbingcyclist.com/climbs...ark/mt-hotham/

I will run/walk/crawl that in under 7 hours no later than 31DEC14.

Your move, Tobi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

Hotham is only 30km, I'm planning to do that as one of my long training runs.

mischa21 +

yessum

mischa21's Avatar
Joined
Aug '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,200
Thanked 3,076 Times in 1,083 Posts
Posts
4,067

Quote:

Originally Posted by airconteka View Post

Get fucked, 3:45 on the dot

thanks - actually had way too much energy at the end. should have gone harder!

I started w 4 hrs in mind, but after about 28km sitting around 5:20/km, I thought I could make it under 3:45 (glenn yous et the challenge in my head!). pushed it as much as I could so stoked to get 3:45 flat. in hindsight could have gone a little bit faster in the first 25km, but had weird shooting pain in my ankle which was came and went throughout so I was wary not to go too hard in case it got unbearable. all in all I think I ran the race really well.
I also stopped to go to the bathroom along the way, and hug my cheering dad (which I now wish I hadn't - those precious seconds! haha) but really enjoyed it overall.
Closed thread

« Previous Thread Next Thread »

Posting Rules

+
    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts