UK chief drugs advisor sacked for "telling the truth"

dbb618 · 02-Nov-09, 02:25pm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...02/2730355.htm

And this is why the game will never stop.

A row has broken out in Britain, after the chief drugs adviser to the government was sacked when he said alcohol and cigarettes were more dangerous than cannabis.

Other scientists on the drugs advisory council have resigned in protest, complaining the government is ignoring science in favour of popular myths.

When Professor David Nutt made his statements on marijuana, he thought he was simply telling the truth.

He said the drug was reclassified from class C to the more dangerous category B against scientific evidence, simply on the whim of Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

The reaction from the government was swift and unforgiving. Home Secretary Alan Johnson sacked him by email.
...
Professor Nutt is not going quietly. He insists his views are supported by science and experts in the field, while the government is guided by populist misinformation.

"This government is the first government that has gone against our recommendations," he said.

"It has done it on cannabis. It has done it on ecstasy and to be honest, if it had even asked us, it would have done it against mushrooms but it didn't even have the courtesy to ask us about mushrooms.

"So this government has made the law and then it has gone back to the advisory council and said 'could you find some evidence to support our decision?'

"Now we've said 'no, we will stick to science, our scientific guns, we will produce the evidence and if you go and legislate inappropriately, we will continue to point out the evidence does not support you'."

CheelWinston · 02-Nov-09, 02:30pm

'recent research shows it's not so darn harmful'

larrisajones · 02-Nov-09, 03:07pm

Nutt's been making controversial statements for ages - this was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back so to speak.

Ruthykins · 02-Nov-09, 03:39pm

the world (especially Australia) needs more Prof. Nutts!

thetron · 02-Nov-09, 03:54pm

i like nutts.

Spicy · 02-Nov-09, 04:18pm

what the?!

i thought actual scientific results were against what he and his friends claim. this is very interesting.

TrainsPillsBreaks · 02-Nov-09, 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrisajones

Nutt's been making controversial statements for ages

Cannabis being exceedingly less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco is an uncontroversial statement.

dbb618 · 02-Nov-09, 04:30pm

yes, but it is politically controversial.

The war on Some drugs continues unabated.

YossarianIsSane · 02-Nov-09, 06:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicy

what the?!

i thought actual scientific results were against what he and his friends claim. this is very interesting.

Be aware that he is talking not about individual doses or anything like that. That advisory council takes into account use trends, long term health costs and costs to the community as well.

THEHEATH · 02-Nov-09, 07:11pm

Every long term user I have ever known in NQR in the head. FACT.

big eddie · 02-Nov-09, 09:17pm

I know plenty of people who a NQR in the head and I'm fairly sure they don't do drugs.

toilet trained · 02-Nov-09, 09:24pm

Look basically he was saying that the danger of mary jane was adequately taken into consideration when it was declassified to a class C drug.

the govt decided to reclassify it as a class B drug, against the councils findings, purely out of percieved political gain (the torys were basically using it as a wedge issue)

all that is fine and good (not that i agree with the reclassification) BUT

then he was sacked for maintaining the opinion of the drug councils findings, and not toeing the governments line. it really is a complete mess. essentially the government is saying to its own advisers its fine to have a different opinion to the government, but you are not allowed to voice that opinion or really have any free speech in the matter at all, despite being advisers specifically set up to voice their scientific opinion on drug matters.

crazy.

Dubz · 02-Nov-09, 09:48pm

It's typical of a government that has completely lost it's way that it brings on experts and tells them that they want "the truth" and will follow their scientific findings....and then fire the experts when they dont come up with the results the MPs want.

I fucking hate Labour with the passion of a thousands suns. Sadly the conservatives are bizarrely turning into Labour.

MPs now no longer have any experience of real life.

ianwil1976 · 03-Nov-09, 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by THEHEATH

Every long term user I have ever known in NQR in the head. FACT.

I bet they just smoke sticky.

twistedbydesign · 03-Nov-09, 03:13pm

Give it up for logic in power.

CheelWinston · 03-Nov-09, 03:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by big eddie

I know plenty of people who a NQR in the head and I'm fairly sure they don't do drugs.

Not to mention people who sink a dozen schooners every day of the week.

ianwil1976 · 03-Nov-09, 08:31pm

It's time like this that I really wish Bill Hicks hadn't departed the planet so fucking soon.

JDxx · 03-Nov-09, 08:46pm

Agreed. Bill Hicks, George Carlin & the likes, but yer, go the Nutt's 'ter!!!! Good on ya for fighting the good fight.

Geezah · 03-Nov-09, 09:05pm

The War is over. The Drugs won. I mean, Big Pharma already makes most of the shit legally, all you need to do is contract the Big C or the Big A or claim you is being chased by a Big Black Dog and you is gonna get on it anyways. Or fake a sleeping disorder, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, or pretend you can not concentrate to the point of annoyance, and ya know, you wil get on it.

Pollies and the Stupids still make this shit an issue, when prohibition is the number one cause for people dying on illicit substances. Its a fucking waste of tax-payers money incarcerating and prosecuting users, it is a waste of time, it is the definition of insanity being tough on drugs. Governments are so fucking stupid. They could legalise and regulate recreational drugs, it would take them about 6 months, and then all the lies about saying they will fix shit will become truths. It is mind-bogglingly exasperating that we are still having this argument in 2009.

Humans couldn`t organise to be intelligent in a Mathematorium.

ianwil1976 · 03-Nov-09, 10:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDxx

Agreed. Bill Hicks, George Carlin & the likes, but yer, go the Nutt's 'ter!!!! Good on ya for fighting the good fight.

Carlin died at 71, a pretty good innings. Hicks was 32

Geezah, well said.

THEHEATH · 03-Nov-09, 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by big eddie

I know plenty of people who a NQR in the head and I'm fairly sure they don't do drugs.

Yes but these people were normal before.

hatzornotahat · 03-Nov-09, 10:49pm

It seems to me that we are simply undergoing an extended period of (drug) Prohibition, including all its tragic failings. It's all too telling that the mistakes of the past are to be repeated. Perhaps when a more informed and enlightened generation enters the parliamentary system the issue will be dealt with definitively. Then again, ignorance breeds ignorance especially in political circumstances, so we could be stuck this way for a long time to come.

Stavros · 04-Nov-09, 01:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by THEHEATH

Yes but these people were normal before.

Is there a device that measures a standard normal measure that you can point me to? Or is it a relative, subjective and biased opinion?
How do you explain people who consume cannabis that are QR in the head?

ianwil1976 · 04-Nov-09, 11:29am

Of course, sillyhead, it's called the kneejerk-o-meter.

tone_loc · 04-Nov-09, 07:29pm

Quote:

extract from a letter written by the MP responsible for the sacking (Alan Johnson):

He was asked to go because he cannot be both a government adviser and a campaigner against government policy. This principle is well understood and long established.

As for his comments about horse riding being more dangerous than ecstasy, which you quote with such reverence, it is of course a political rather than a scientific point. There are not many kids in my constituency in danger of falling off a horse – there are thousands at risk of being sucked into a world of hopeless despair through drug addiction.

it seems it is a well understood and long established principle that one cannot be a government adviser and also advise the government that it is wrong.

also love his dismissal of the statistical fact that horse riding is more dangerous than ecstasy; "a political rather than a scientific point."

Carte Blanche · 04-Nov-09, 07:38pm

Give Nick Clegg a go imo.

THEHEATH · 04-Nov-09, 09:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stavros

Is there a device that measures a standard normal measure that you can point me to? Or is it a relative, subjective and biased opinion?
How do you explain people who consume cannabis that are QR in the head?

No device, they are observations, but it's fairly simple. You take a persons ability to function in society/socially before becoming a chronic user, then compare that to their ability to do it after chronic use. You then take your observations over several groups of people and draw your conclusion.

Voila, what do you know, every chronic user I know is fucked in the head. Show me a drug that is used heavily that doesn't have a long term negative affect on people?

Hey I'm not anti-weed. I've done it, each to their own. I just like to add my 2 cents because whenever the question of legalization gets brought up it seems to become a bit of a love in.

big eddie · 04-Nov-09, 09:32pm

Question of separating the mental health issue from the law and order one imo.

toilet trained · 04-Nov-09, 10:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by THEHEATH

No device, they are observations, but it's fairly simple. You take a persons ability to function in society/socially before becoming a chronic user, then compare that to their ability to do it after chronic use. You then take your observations over several groups of people and draw your conclusion.

Voila, what do you know, every chronic user I know is fucked in the head. Show me a drug that is used heavily that doesn't have a long term negative affect on people?

Hey I'm not anti-weed. I've done it, each to their own. I just like to add my 2 cents because whenever the question of legalization gets brought up it seems to become a bit of a love in.

i agree with you in the main (although i know a few chronic smokers, none of who are wonky in the head, but when i was at school a few of the fellow kids ended up in psych ward for good on the stuff) but again, it was the councils thoughts that the dangers were adequately taken into consideration when it was a class C drug.

Also, the council took into account the other social problems from 'waging war on users' i.e the long term consequences of giving users criminal convictions and the evidence that reclassification would not (and indeed has not) reduced usage one iota.

The reason the issue flared up was the government was hearing stories of 'super weed' hydro stuff that was apparently knocking alot of people up. but the statistics on schizophrenia said otherwise, there was no increase in schizophrenia or other serious mental illness attributed to weed use.

in actual fact the biggest problem with weed in the UK (apparently) is that its actually very very poor quality. and most stuff sold as 'soap bar' (low grade resin) has all sorts of crap in it that isn't weed, and poses far more serious health concerns, a problem which would obviously be overcome if weed was de-criminalized and regulated...clearly no point telling the government that though

ticketsplease · 06-Nov-09, 07:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by THEHEATH

Voila, what do you know, every chronic user I know is fucked in the head. Show me a drug that is used heavily that doesn't have a long term negative affect on people?

Hey I'm not anti-weed. I've done it, each to their own. I just like to add my 2 cents because whenever the question of legalization gets brought up it seems to become a bit of a love in.

More Nutt here.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-on-drugs.html

ticketsplease · 06-Nov-09, 08:05am

'No one doubts that heavy users of marijuana are risking trouble with their mental health. What I have simply pointed out is that we need a consistent policy, recognising that heavy users of alcohol and tobacco are more numerous and are causing themselves – and others – even more trouble through their indulgence.'

Nutt - so you know its true.

NanouK · 09-Nov-09, 07:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by THEHEATH

Every long term user I have ever known in NQR in the head. OPINION.

fixed

DaveHarvey · 10-Nov-09, 07:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carte Blanche

Give Nick Clegg a go imo.

Not a bad idea.

http://drevanharrismp.wordpress.com/...or-david-nutt/

ezz_ · 12-Nov-09, 04:26pm

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...n-3-years.html

this looks interesting. healthy, synthetic alcohol? yes fucking please.

i LOVE the sensationalist reporting too

02-Nov-09, 02:25pm	#1
dbb618 Mortal Avatar Member Since: May 2006 MemberID: 89387 Location: Bubble Metropolis Posts: 9,129	UK chief drugs advisor sacked for "telling the truth" http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...02/2730355.htm And this is why the game will never stop. A row has broken out in Britain, after the chief drugs adviser to the government was sacked when he said alcohol and cigarettes were more dangerous than cannabis. Other scientists on the drugs advisory council have resigned in protest, complaining the government is ignoring science in favour of popular myths. When Professor David Nutt made his statements on marijuana, he thought he was simply telling the truth. He said the drug was reclassified from class C to the more dangerous category B against scientific evidence, simply on the whim of Prime Minister Gordon Brown. The reaction from the government was swift and unforgiving. Home Secretary Alan Johnson sacked him by email. ... Professor Nutt is not going quietly. He insists his views are supported by science and experts in the field, while the government is guided by populist misinformation. "This government is the first government that has gone against our recommendations," he said. "It has done it on cannabis. It has done it on ecstasy and to be honest, if it had even asked us, it would have done it against mushrooms but it didn't even have the courtesy to ask us about mushrooms. "So this government has made the law and then it has gone back to the advisory council and said 'could you find some evidence to support our decision?' "Now we've said 'no, we will stick to science, our scientific guns, we will produce the evidence and if you go and legislate inappropriately, we will continue to point out the evidence does not support you'." __________________ http://www.last.fm/user/dbbrx8/tracks http://twitter.com/derekbradley Quote: Originally Posted by B_e_de ur fkn drubnk its the drunjunation of the future
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02-Nov-09, 02:30pm	#2
CheelWinston Chalkface Member Since: May 2001 MemberID: 1134 Location: Cellz Posts: 7,151	'recent research shows it's not so darn harmful' __________________ cheel (till the next episode) "Don't playa hate, calculate!" "Don't playa hate, navigate!" "Don't playa hate, amputate!" "Don't playa hate, self-mutilate!" "Don't playa hate, masticate!"

02-Nov-09, 03:39pm	#4
Ruthykins Life of the Search Party! Member Since: Sep 2006 MemberID: 98390 Location: Moo Moo Bees Posts: 5,840	the world (especially Australia) needs more Prof. Nutts! __________________ flickr Ruthy likes you Quote: Originally Posted by Junglejunkie Fuck i love you ITM. Youre like an abusive spouse that just bought me flowers for no reason.
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02-Nov-09, 03:54pm	#5
thetron mmmMMMMMmmmmm Member Since: Apr 2007 MemberID: 123455 Location: your dad. Posts: 706	i like nutts.
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02-Nov-09, 04:18pm	#6
Spicy Unregistered User Member Since: Dec 2007 MemberID: 150975 Location: Vag, HU Posts: 5,170	what the?! i thought actual scientific results were against what he and his friends claim. this is very interesting. __________________ x - o + music is the product of the highest human intelligence, and of the best senses, the listening senses and of imagination and intuition -- karlheinz stockhausen
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02-Nov-09, 03:07pm	#3
larrisajones eh Member Since: Jun 2008 MemberID: 167611 Location: still here Posts: 4,067	Nutt's been making controversial statements for ages - this was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back so to speak.

02-Nov-09, 04:29pm	#7
TrainsPillsBreaks Registered User Member Since: Apr 2009 MemberID: 194116 Location: WA, AU Posts: 247	Quote: Originally Posted by larrisajones Nutt's been making controversial statements for ages Cannabis being exceedingly less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco is an uncontroversial statement.

02-Nov-09, 04:30pm	#8
dbb618 Mortal Avatar Member Since: May 2006 MemberID: 89387 Location: Bubble Metropolis Posts: 9,129	yes, but it is politically controversial. The war on Some drugs continues unabated. __________________ http://www.last.fm/user/dbbrx8/tracks http://twitter.com/derekbradley Quote: Originally Posted by B_e_de ur fkn drubnk its the drunjunation of the future
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02-Nov-09, 06:53pm	#9
YossarianIsSane Registered User Member Since: Nov 2005 MemberID: 75953 Location: WA, AU Posts: 505	Quote: Originally Posted by Spicy what the?! i thought actual scientific results were against what he and his friends claim. this is very interesting. Be aware that he is talking not about individual doses or anything like that. That advisory council takes into account use trends, long term health costs and costs to the community as well.

02-Nov-09, 07:11pm	#10
THEHEATH Registered User Member Since: Jan 2003 MemberID: 17776 Location: My dirty, filthy, scummy flat? Posts: 13,066	Every long term user I have ever known in NQR in the head. FACT. __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by magictorch I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate. Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

02-Nov-09, 09:17pm	#11
big eddie #wanker_club Member Since: Jan 2003 MemberID: 18166 Location: the top Posts: 25,048	I know plenty of people who a NQR in the head and I'm fairly sure they don't do drugs. __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by drater I gave it another shot over the weekend. Once I got to halfway, I actually quite enjoyed the taste

02-Nov-09, 09:24pm	#12
toilet trained Mr thunderbox Member Since: Jun 2002 MemberID: 10564 Location: on the potty Posts: 3,693	Look basically he was saying that the danger of mary jane was adequately taken into consideration when it was declassified to a class C drug. the govt decided to reclassify it as a class B drug, against the councils findings, purely out of percieved political gain (the torys were basically using it as a wedge issue) all that is fine and good (not that i agree with the reclassification) BUT then he was sacked for maintaining the opinion of the drug councils findings, and not toeing the governments line. it really is a complete mess. essentially the government is saying to its own advisers its fine to have a different opinion to the government, but you are not allowed to voice that opinion or really have any free speech in the matter at all, despite being advisers specifically set up to voice their scientific opinion on drug matters. crazy. __________________ hang on a minute, im on the potty doing poo http://soundcloud.com/moth-hunter

02-Nov-09, 09:48pm	#13
Dubz Registered User Member Since: Oct 2007 MemberID: 146504 Location: NSW, AU Posts: 3,127	It's typical of a government that has completely lost it's way that it brings on experts and tells them that they want "the truth" and will follow their scientific findings....and then fire the experts when they dont come up with the results the MPs want. I fucking hate Labour with the passion of a thousands suns. Sadly the conservatives are bizarrely turning into Labour. MPs now no longer have any experience of real life. __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by Elliot G "Dubz speaketh wisely"

03-Nov-09, 02:44pm	#14
ianwil1976 got cat? Member Since: Oct 2004 MemberID: 49736 Posts: 22,772	Quote: Originally Posted by THEHEATH Every long term user I have ever known in NQR in the head. FACT. I bet they just smoke sticky. __________________ Facebook "Silence! Find me churches! I feel a burning coming on, a terrible need to piss in a christening font..." -- Spider Jerusalem, Transmetropolitan
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03-Nov-09, 03:13pm	#15
twistedbydesign grokkin it over Member Since: Mar 2004 MemberID: 37436 Location: Junkion Posts: 14,876	Give it up for logic in power. __________________ everything has already been pre-empted. And that allows people to be so cynical when something actually does happen, because they think they foresaw it - Kode9 A consistent thinker is a thoughtless person he conforms to a pattern repeats phrases thinks in a groove.

03-Nov-09, 03:37pm	#16
CheelWinston Chalkface Member Since: May 2001 MemberID: 1134 Location: Cellz Posts: 7,151	Quote: Originally Posted by big eddie I know plenty of people who a NQR in the head and I'm fairly sure they don't do drugs. Not to mention people who sink a dozen schooners every day of the week. __________________ cheel (till the next episode) "Don't playa hate, calculate!" "Don't playa hate, navigate!" "Don't playa hate, amputate!" "Don't playa hate, self-mutilate!" "Don't playa hate, masticate!"

03-Nov-09, 08:31pm	#17
ianwil1976 got cat? Member Since: Oct 2004 MemberID: 49736 Posts: 22,772	It's time like this that I really wish Bill Hicks hadn't departed the planet so fucking soon. __________________ Facebook "Silence! Find me churches! I feel a burning coming on, a terrible need to piss in a christening font..." -- Spider Jerusalem, Transmetropolitan
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03-Nov-09, 08:46pm	#18
JDxx Audio Interspace Podcast Member Since: Dec 2007 MemberID: 150833 Location: Earth.......I think Posts: 154	Agreed. Bill Hicks, George Carlin & the likes, but yer, go the Nutt's 'ter!!!! Good on ya for fighting the good fight. __________________ Please join Audio Interspace on iTunes & Face Book if you would like your EDM mixes/material to get that extra boost & further exposure via iTunes or direct download on the site. http://www.audiointerspace.co.cc/ RSS Feed on the site

03-Nov-09, 09:05pm	#19
Geezah D'Oh Member Since: Sep 2003 MemberID: 27476 Location: Evergrr.....mmn.....beer! Posts: 5,809	The War is over. The Drugs won. I mean, Big Pharma already makes most of the shit legally, all you need to do is contract the Big C or the Big A or claim you is being chased by a Big Black Dog and you is gonna get on it anyways. Or fake a sleeping disorder, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, or pretend you can not concentrate to the point of annoyance, and ya know, you wil get on it. Pollies and the Stupids still make this shit an issue, when prohibition is the number one cause for people dying on illicit substances. Its a fucking waste of tax-payers money incarcerating and prosecuting users, it is a waste of time, it is the definition of insanity being tough on drugs. Governments are so fucking stupid. They could legalise and regulate recreational drugs, it would take them about 6 months, and then all the lies about saying they will fix shit will become truths. It is mind-bogglingly exasperating that we are still having this argument in 2009. Humans couldn`t organise to be intelligent in a Mathematorium. __________________ Quote: Homer: Bad bees! Get away from my sugar! Ow! OW!! Oh, they're defending themselves somehow!

03-Nov-09, 10:25pm	#20
ianwil1976 got cat? Member Since: Oct 2004 MemberID: 49736 Posts: 22,772	Quote: Originally Posted by JDxx Agreed. Bill Hicks, George Carlin & the likes, but yer, go the Nutt's 'ter!!!! Good on ya for fighting the good fight. Carlin died at 71, a pretty good innings. Hicks was 32 Geezah, well said. __________________ Facebook "Silence! Find me churches! I feel a burning coming on, a terrible need to piss in a christening font..." -- Spider Jerusalem, Transmetropolitan
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03-Nov-09, 10:34pm	#21
THEHEATH Registered User Member Since: Jan 2003 MemberID: 17776 Location: My dirty, filthy, scummy flat? Posts: 13,066	Quote: Originally Posted by big eddie I know plenty of people who a NQR in the head and I'm fairly sure they don't do drugs. Yes but these people were normal before. __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by magictorch I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate. Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

03-Nov-09, 10:49pm	#22
hatzornotahat is not an alias Member Since: Feb 2009 MemberID: 190661 Location: QLD, AU Posts: 2,248	It seems to me that we are simply undergoing an extended period of (drug) Prohibition, including all its tragic failings. It's all too telling that the mistakes of the past are to be repeated. Perhaps when a more informed and enlightened generation enters the parliamentary system the issue will be dealt with definitively. Then again, ignorance breeds ignorance especially in political circumstances, so we could be stuck this way for a long time to come. __________________ I'm pregnant with a baby elephant, the trunk is already out. Quote: Originally Posted by Dbauch if someone spends all their days posting on an internet music site about crap, then they have no people skills or real friends and are unemployed with no prospects

04-Nov-09, 01:30am	#23
Stavros .exe Member Since: Dec 2002 MemberID: 17597 Location: Lunch box of choice Posts: 959	Quote: Originally Posted by THEHEATH Yes but these people were normal before. Is there a device that measures a standard normal measure that you can point me to? Or is it a relative, subjective and biased opinion? How do you explain people who consume cannabis that are QR in the head?
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04-Nov-09, 11:29am	#24
ianwil1976 got cat? Member Since: Oct 2004 MemberID: 49736 Posts: 22,772	Of course, sillyhead, it's called the kneejerk-o-meter. __________________ Facebook "Silence! Find me churches! I feel a burning coming on, a terrible need to piss in a christening font..." -- Spider Jerusalem, Transmetropolitan
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04-Nov-09, 07:29pm	#25
tone_loc Registered User Member Since: Sep 2007 MemberID: 142585 Location: NSW, AU Posts: 119	Quote: extract from a letter written by the MP responsible for the sacking (Alan Johnson): He was asked to go because he cannot be both a government adviser and a campaigner against government policy. This principle is well understood and long established. As for his comments about horse riding being more dangerous than ecstasy, which you quote with such reverence, it is of course a political rather than a scientific point. There are not many kids in my constituency in danger of falling off a horse – there are thousands at risk of being sucked into a world of hopeless despair through drug addiction. it seems it is a well understood and long established principle that one cannot be a government adviser and also advise the government that it is wrong. also love his dismissal of the statistical fact that horse riding is more dangerous than ecstasy; "a political rather than a scientific point."

04-Nov-09, 07:38pm	#26
Carte Blanche SHIFT_ your feet Member Since: Jul 2004 MemberID: 42910 Location: feeling love Posts: 6,049	Give Nick Clegg a go imo. __________________ Lagom är bäst. Lush. Groovy. Melodic. .: House Sessions 006: Helsinki :. En existens utan progbombar är inte alls en existens.
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04-Nov-09, 09:13pm	#27
THEHEATH Registered User Member Since: Jan 2003 MemberID: 17776 Location: My dirty, filthy, scummy flat? Posts: 13,066	Quote: Originally Posted by Stavros Is there a device that measures a standard normal measure that you can point me to? Or is it a relative, subjective and biased opinion? How do you explain people who consume cannabis that are QR in the head? No device, they are observations, but it's fairly simple. You take a persons ability to function in society/socially before becoming a chronic user, then compare that to their ability to do it after chronic use. You then take your observations over several groups of people and draw your conclusion. Voila, what do you know, every chronic user I know is fucked in the head. Show me a drug that is used heavily that doesn't have a long term negative affect on people? Hey I'm not anti-weed. I've done it, each to their own. I just like to add my 2 cents because whenever the question of legalization gets brought up it seems to become a bit of a love in. __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by magictorch I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate. Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

04-Nov-09, 09:32pm	#28
big eddie #wanker_club Member Since: Jan 2003 MemberID: 18166 Location: the top Posts: 25,048	Question of separating the mental health issue from the law and order one imo. __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by drater I gave it another shot over the weekend. Once I got to halfway, I actually quite enjoyed the taste

04-Nov-09, 10:18pm	#29
toilet trained Mr thunderbox Member Since: Jun 2002 MemberID: 10564 Location: on the potty Posts: 3,693	Quote: Originally Posted by THEHEATH No device, they are observations, but it's fairly simple. You take a persons ability to function in society/socially before becoming a chronic user, then compare that to their ability to do it after chronic use. You then take your observations over several groups of people and draw your conclusion. Voila, what do you know, every chronic user I know is fucked in the head. Show me a drug that is used heavily that doesn't have a long term negative affect on people? Hey I'm not anti-weed. I've done it, each to their own. I just like to add my 2 cents because whenever the question of legalization gets brought up it seems to become a bit of a love in. i agree with you in the main (although i know a few chronic smokers, none of who are wonky in the head, but when i was at school a few of the fellow kids ended up in psych ward for good on the stuff) but again, it was the councils thoughts that the dangers were adequately taken into consideration when it was a class C drug. Also, the council took into account the other social problems from 'waging war on users' i.e the long term consequences of giving users criminal convictions and the evidence that reclassification would not (and indeed has not) reduced usage one iota. The reason the issue flared up was the government was hearing stories of 'super weed' hydro stuff that was apparently knocking alot of people up. but the statistics on schizophrenia said otherwise, there was no increase in schizophrenia or other serious mental illness attributed to weed use. in actual fact the biggest problem with weed in the UK (apparently) is that its actually very very poor quality. and most stuff sold as 'soap bar' (low grade resin) has all sorts of crap in it that isn't weed, and poses far more serious health concerns, a problem which would obviously be overcome if weed was de-criminalized and regulated...clearly no point telling the government that though __________________ hang on a minute, im on the potty doing poo http://soundcloud.com/moth-hunter

06-Nov-09, 07:57am	#30
ticketsplease Frankee More Member Since: Sep 2002 MemberID: 13421 Location: NSW, AU Posts: 1,018	Quote: Originally Posted by THEHEATH Voila, what do you know, every chronic user I know is fucked in the head. Show me a drug that is used heavily that doesn't have a long term negative affect on people? Hey I'm not anti-weed. I've done it, each to their own. I just like to add my 2 cents because whenever the question of legalization gets brought up it seems to become a bit of a love in. More Nutt here. http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-on-drugs.html __________________ www.myspace.com/whitedorksmusic http://www.whitedorks.blogspot.com/

06-Nov-09, 08:05am	#31
ticketsplease Frankee More Member Since: Sep 2002 MemberID: 13421 Location: NSW, AU Posts: 1,018	'No one doubts that heavy users of marijuana are risking trouble with their mental health. What I have simply pointed out is that we need a consistent policy, recognising that heavy users of alcohol and tobacco are more numerous and are causing themselves – and others – even more trouble through their indulgence.' Nutt - so you know its true. __________________ www.myspace.com/whitedorksmusic http://www.whitedorks.blogspot.com/

09-Nov-09, 07:49am	#32
NanouK safe innit Member Since: Oct 2002 MemberID: 15419 Location: London Posts: 1,013	Quote: Originally Posted by THEHEATH Every long term user I have ever known in NQR in the head. OPINION. fixed __________________ "Anyone who lives within their means, suffers from a serious lack of imagaination" .... Oscar Wilde

10-Nov-09, 07:22pm	#33
DaveHarvey Unregistered Abuser Member Since: Jan 2008 MemberID: 154086 Location: BNE Posts: 17	Quote: Originally Posted by Carte Blanche Give Nick Clegg a go imo. Not a bad idea. http://drevanharrismp.wordpress.com/...or-david-nutt/

12-Nov-09, 04:26pm	#34
ezz_ bearded ladeh Member Since: Jan 2002 MemberID: 6414 Location: beards, beards, beards Posts: 1,630	http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...n-3-years.html this looks interesting. healthy, synthetic alcohol? yes fucking please. i LOVE the sensationalist reporting too __________________ your face has fallen sad now for you know that the time is nigh when i must remove your wings and you must try to fly i think of you in motion and just how close you are getting, and how every little thing anticipates you...

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