The Main Room

Immigration/ Sink the boats/ Asylum seekers

Reply
  Tools
Coezi +

Registered User

Coezi's Avatar
Joined
Dec '05
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 68
Thanked 543 Times in 174 Posts
Posts
767
Now that we've gone back to what is basically the pacific solution, it will certainly be interesting to see if arrival numbers drop won't it?

And if they do, will you all find some other reason for the drop, or will you openly admit it was due to the policy change?
HERPA DERPA, HERPADEE DOO
I'VE GOT A PERFECT PUZZLE FOR YOU
HERPA DERPA, HERPADAH DEE
IF YOU ARE WISE, YOU'LL LISTEN TO ME.
Geezah +

Raaaaaaaaaaaaarrghh

Geezah's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,825
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,176 Posts
Posts
12,935
This isn't a fucking competition.

Supporters of whatever side don't get to say, "I told you so", while attaining points in some unheard of form of Refugee Randling.

I don't think anyone has any claim on self-righteousness. This solution may very well turn out to do nothing. There are still going to be many millions of refugees out there sitting in camps for years, whose children will grow up with camp-life being their normal, regardless of any solution that is deemed effective.

That should sober us all up a bit shouldn't it?
Avatar artist: Dain Fagerholm
austraboy +

I like toast

austraboy's Avatar
Joined
Sep '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 14
Thanked 146 Times in 81 Posts
Posts
911
It's somewhat of a conundrum this policy.

If the policy works and people don't come by boat any more, who will actually be languishing in detention on Manus Is and Nauru?

In other words the evidence of the policy "working" will be that the detention centres are empty.

Or is the idea that there will still be a certain percentage of refugees who are still going to come by boat, that being enough to fill up the detention centres on Manus Is and Nauru?
Coezi +

Registered User

Coezi's Avatar
Joined
Dec '05
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 68
Thanked 543 Times in 174 Posts
Posts
767

Quote:

Originally Posted by austraboy View Post

It's somewhat of a conundrum this policy.

If the policy works and people don't come by boat any more, who will actually be languishing in detention on Manus Is and Nauru?

In other words the evidence of the policy "working" will be that the detention centres are empty.

Or is the idea that there will still be a certain percentage of refugees who are still going to come by boat, that being enough to fill up the detention centres on Manus Is and Nauru?

I would assume that if the numbers start to drop on average, you could say the policy is having an effect.

You then need to ask what is better, "X" amount stuck on Christmas Island or a lower amount "Y" being stuck on Manus and Nauru?

There will always be a few still coming...
HERPA DERPA, HERPADEE DOO
I'VE GOT A PERFECT PUZZLE FOR YOU
HERPA DERPA, HERPADAH DEE
IF YOU ARE WISE, YOU'LL LISTEN TO ME.
trist +

too many years on ITM

trist's Avatar
Joined
Mar '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 198
Thanked 315 Times in 243 Posts
Posts
8,768

Quote:

Originally Posted by austraboy View Post

It's somewhat of a conundrum this policy.

If the policy works and people don't come by boat any more, who will actually be languishing in detention on Manus Is and Nauru?

In other words the evidence of the policy "working" will be that the detention centres are empty.

That’s what happened with Howard’s Pacific Solution. After the initial groups were processed, very few where arriving to replace them and Manus Island was closed in July 2003 and Nauru was at less than 5% capacity from 2004.

In saying that, I don’t know whether it will work as effectively this time around, but it’s worth a shot. And it’s far better than the debacle Rudd created, and that Gillard has been attempting and failing to fix since.
Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous B movie. Gil Scott-Heron
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

This isn't a fucking competition.

Supporters of whatever side don't get to say, "I told you so", while attaining points in some unheard of form of Refugee Randling.

I don't think anyone has any claim on self-righteousness. This solution may very well turn out to do nothing. There are still going to be many millions of refugees out there sitting in camps for years, whose children will grow up with camp-life being their normal, regardless of any solution that is deemed effective.

That should sober us all up a bit shouldn't it?

The question I have is when this policy is shown not to work, will amendments be made?

I don't think so, we have bipartisan agreement from the major parties to discriminate against refugees illegally. Out of sight out of mind.

Here is a simple solution.
Get plane.
Fly to Indonesia/Malaysia.
Pick up refugees from camps UN camps.
Increase refugee intake numbers.

Wow so hard.
"But but, sending a boat or plane to pick them up would be expensive!"
Sure, but how do people expect the 90%+ of them that are found to be legit to get from Nauru to Australia? Swim?
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
Geezah +

Raaaaaaaaaaaaarrghh

Geezah's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,825
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,176 Posts
Posts
12,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

1. I don't think so, we have bipartisan agreement from the major parties to discriminate against refugees illegally. Out of sight out of mind.

2. Here is a simple solution.
Get plane.
Fly to Indonesia/Malaysia.
Pick up refugees from camps UN camps.
Increase refugee intake numbers.

Wow so hard.
"But but, sending a boat or plane to pick them up would be expensive!"
Sure, but how do people expect the 90%+ of them that are found to be legit to get from Nauru to Australia? Swim?

1. That's a claim for which you are assuming a fair amount. You simply don't know that. Labor have changed their policy twice now. If this doesn't work, then the Liberals may have to change too. Turnbull for one has said that if this doesn't work then something else should be tried.

2. Again how do you know that this policy won't just increase the amounts of people arriving in Indonesia and Malaysia (countries that are already vastly overcrowded for geographical size)? The answer is you don't know, so stop pretending like you do.
Avatar artist: Dain Fagerholm
trist +

too many years on ITM

trist's Avatar
Joined
Mar '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 198
Thanked 315 Times in 243 Posts
Posts
8,768

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

The question I have is when this policy is shown not to work, will amendments be made?

I don't think so, we have bipartisan agreement from the major parties to discriminate against refugees illegally. Out of sight out of mind.

Here is a simple solution.
Get plane.
Fly to Indonesia/Malaysia.
Pick up refugees from camps UN camps.
Increase refugee intake numbers.

Wow so hard.
"But but, sending a boat or plane to pick them up would be expensive!"
Sure, but how do people expect the 90%+ of them that are found to be legit to get from Nauru to Australia? Swim?

^ hmm, get to Indonesia or Malaysia using people smugglers and then get a chartered jet to Australia (for community processing I presume as well?).

Better get more than one plane.
Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous B movie. Gil Scott-Heron
robin78 +

no

robin78's Avatar
Joined
Oct '09
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 50
Thanked 63 Times in 52 Posts
Posts
673
The boat people obsessives still haven't explained why I should get hysterical as they do when a ship load of war victims arrives here.



Why should I start foaming about it and let it dictate the way I vote? Have these people done something awful to you at some stage of your life?
trist +

too many years on ITM

trist's Avatar
Joined
Mar '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 198
Thanked 315 Times in 243 Posts
Posts
8,768

Quote:

Originally Posted by robin78 View Post

It's the nature of authoritarianism that you'd be devoted to your leader of choice regardless of how many times his claims have been disproven so it's no surprise you won't shift there, but regarding jailing people without charge (usually the hallmark of a police state) as 'one of the most successful policies in living memory' is pretty alarming.

I suppose it's just another case of conservatives claiming to protect western values by shredding them

you are mental.
Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous B movie. Gil Scott-Heron
gravyishot +

this stupid facebook bar at the bottom is for ****s

gravyishot's Avatar
Joined
Mar '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 364
Thanked 934 Times in 525 Posts
Posts
3
Quality rebuttal, trist.
trist +

too many years on ITM

trist's Avatar
Joined
Mar '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 198
Thanked 315 Times in 243 Posts
Posts
8,768

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

Quality rebuttal, trist.

well that's all it deserved.
Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous B movie. Gil Scott-Heron
Weinertron +

random shoutbox generator

Weinertron's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 2,455
Thanked 970 Times in 437 Posts
Posts
3,700
I think it has been said before, but this 'debate' makes me weep for humanity.

And the simple fact that most of the people who comment about 'dem darn boat peoples' happen to be first or second generation boat people themselves. The hypocrisy is vile. The discussion about asylum seekers as if they are some kind of "problem" is fucking disgusting.

Shit is fucked. I hate this country and all the fuckwits that make it this way.

Fuck everyone
Fuck Everything Forever
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weinertron View Post

I think it has been said before, but this 'debate' makes me weep for humanity.

And the simple fact that most of the people who comment about 'dem darn boat peoples' happen to be first or second generation boat people themselves. The hypocrisy is vile. The discussion about asylum seekers as if they are some kind of "problem" is fucking disgusting.

Shit is fucked. I hate this country and all the fuckwits that make it this way.

Fuck everyone

Very apt Avatar
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by trist View Post

^ hmm, get to Indonesia or Malaysia using people smugglers and then get a chartered jet to Australia (for community processing I presume as well?).

Better get more than one plane.

If people were in Voluntary UNHCR camps where they had protection from Indonesian and Malaysian authorities, were given medical treatment, their children were given education and were given food and were guaranteed resettlement in a country where they were protected, I'm pretty sure the "rush" to get into Australia wouldn't be as great.

One of the major issues is that in Indonesia and Malaysia, Refugees basically life in their own prisons where they cant go to work legit jobs, they can't send their children to school, they can't wonder the streets because if they do they could be caught and will face corporal punishment and deportation.
Wonder why they want to get the fuck out of there?
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
phoneyhuh +

3o~

phoneyhuh's Avatar
Joined
Jul '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 16
Thanked 208 Times in 131 Posts
Posts
8,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

If people were in Voluntary UNHCR camps where they had protection from Indonesian and Malaysian authorities, were given medical treatment, their children were given education and were given food and were guaranteed resettlement in a country where they were protected, I'm pretty sure the "rush" to get into Australia wouldn't be as great.[

Who is going to pay for and run this dreamboat camp of yours?

I dont think many Australian taxpayers would be too happy about their government providing free food, education, healthcare and citizenship guarantee's to the West (if they could even organize such a thing) to foreign nationals on foreign soil. Particularly when the offer is so damn sweet, that there'll be literally millions turning up at the door of this camp with their hands out, and suddenly this camp is the size of a small country surviving entirely on welfare. Hell even a quarter of Indonesia (that's 60m people) don't have it so good.

Your idea is a fantasy full of holes & it will never fly.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 16-Aug-12 at 09:49pm

smorchika +

Registered User

smorchika's Avatar
Joined
May '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,349
Thanked 510 Times in 349 Posts
Posts
5,229
Please contribute something to the discussion instead of being so rude. Thanks


Also, it doesnt really matter whether the public want to pay for a solution, they will have to regardless, if there was a way to make it more ethical and cost less, then more power to it.


Edit: im amazed at this ridiculous "australia should look after its own first" and "these people are given a roof over their heads, what about our homeless"
See, i dont see anyone having a cry about prisoners in jail having 3 meals a day/an allowance/a roof over their heads, isnt that strange?!
P.s i hardly think a prison/detention centre (for asylum seekers) is something we as a nation can claim as roaringly ethical/wonderful or acceptable. Nor
something one should be particularly envious of or about.

I dont really think people have thought their ill informed and baseless ideas
through so well, and merely conclude an asylum seeker is someone who wants a
piece of their economic pie, and they dont want to share? Is it really that simple?

Last edited by smorchika: 17-Aug-12 at 02:01am

Weinertron +

random shoutbox generator

Weinertron's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 2,455
Thanked 970 Times in 437 Posts
Posts
3,700
^ I think it may actually be that simple. People in Australia still don't recognise how good we have it. People in Australia cannot see through their own hypocrisy. People in Australia are greedy fuckers and simply don't want to share. It really is that simple.

You can tack on the racist/xenophobic argument to it as well. I just cannot understand how people in this day and age and in this kind of multicultural society still insist on habouring ill-will to people from a different background. Have I missed something somewhere? Do none of these people deal with asians/wogs/middle-eastern/european/african/etc/etc/etc people on a daily basis? Cos I certainly do, and it's not like I work in a detention centre or the immigration department or an airport or anything like that, that is just the make-up of Australia these days. It seems that those that harbour these views actually have never left the house in the past 20 years.

The is only one 'solution' to this problem which I think is appropriate, and that is to allow onshore processing. It is the only way to end the demonisation, and honestly, even if it is about political point scoring, I hardly think politicians are enjoying this particular brand of politicking. Keep the point scoring to the ETS or the MRRT or SOMETHING, not playing with vulnerable peoples' lives. It makes me sick.


NB: although ITT I have just heard about the scheme used by M. Fraser, so I'll look into that a bit more before I pass judgement on that one. Still not keen on the idea of having a centre in Malaysia given that they are not signatories n all
Fuck Everything Forever
gravyishot +

this stupid facebook bar at the bottom is for ****s

gravyishot's Avatar
Joined
Mar '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 364
Thanked 934 Times in 525 Posts
Posts
3
Outside from the asylum seeker debate, the real problem with Australia is that a fair majority of Australians have been encouraged to whinge by everyone (politicians, media) about how bad they have it.

phoneyhuh is a perfect example of this.
Weinertron +

random shoutbox generator

Weinertron's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 2,455
Thanked 970 Times in 437 Posts
Posts
3,700
^ but phoneyhuh is also a documented racist as well (which is exactly why I have him on ignore)

bad example, but I know where you're coming from
Fuck Everything Forever
phoneyhuh +

3o~

phoneyhuh's Avatar
Joined
Jul '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 16
Thanked 208 Times in 131 Posts
Posts
8,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

Outside from the asylum seeker debate, the real problem with Australia is that a fair majority of Australians have been encouraged to whinge by everyone (politicians, media) about how bad they have it.

phoneyhuh is a perfect example of this.

Inside the debate however, I would suggest it's the minority of Australians who are whinging at the Federal governments & opposition asylum seeker policies rather than the majority. There are plenty of perfect examples from the unhinged far Left in this thread.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 17-Aug-12 at 09:34am

gravyishot +

this stupid facebook bar at the bottom is for ****s

gravyishot's Avatar
Joined
Mar '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 364
Thanked 934 Times in 525 Posts
Posts
3

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Inside the debate however, I would suggest it's the minority of Australians who are whinging at the Federal governments & opposition asylum seeker policies rather than the majority. There are plenty of perfect examples from the unhinged far Left in this thread.

I dunno, it's Australians like you who are whinging about a tiny number of people coming to the country in the first place, and claiming that we'll be overrun. You have a fair disconnect from reality.
Coezi +

Registered User

Coezi's Avatar
Joined
Dec '05
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 68
Thanked 543 Times in 174 Posts
Posts
767

Quote:

Originally Posted by smorchika View Post

Please contribute something to the discussion instead of being so rude. Thanks


Also, it doesnt really matter whether the public want to pay for a solution, they will have to regardless, if there was a way to make it more ethical and cost less, then more power to it.


Edit: im amazed at this ridiculous "australia should look after its own first" and "these people are given a roof over their heads, what about our homeless"
See, i dont see anyone having a cry about prisoners in jail having 3 meals a day/an allowance/a roof over their heads, isnt that strange?!
P.s i hardly think a prison/detention centre (for asylum seekers) is something we as a nation can claim as roaringly ethical/wonderful or acceptable. Nor
something one should be particularly envious of or about.

I dont really think people have thought their ill informed and baseless ideas
through so well, and merely conclude an asylum seeker is someone who wants a
piece of their economic pie, and they dont want to share? Is it really that simple?

Pretty much yeh.

However there seems to be a popular fallacy among some of the posters here when it comes to these Racist, Xenophobic (lol), right wing demons you're all describing. You all seem to think that they harbour these opinions only toward people from different back grounds/different countries or whatever other flavour of the month minority group is on the topic board.

Let me set the record straight. Almost all right wing advocates have no time for any pleb who is on welfare, a ward of the state or general good for nothing lay-a-bout whinger that contributes two fifths of fuck-all to society yet has an opinion on everything.It very rarely has anything to do with the language they speak, the colour of their skin, or whether or not they recently arrived on a boat.

All right wingers see is a money sink. Whether that money sink be the jail system, the disability pension, Clover Moore's bike lanes, aboriginal housing programs, welfare packages or asylum seekers, it makes no difference to them.

If they had their way anyone who became unable to work or a general burden to society would be put down. This would include criminals. New arrivals would be welcomed... Then put straight into a labour camp to build the next freeway. They would have to earn their citizenship via a fixed term employment. Any able bodied person would be put to work whether they liked it or not.

If you think right wingers prefer the white bogan inbred dole bludgers occupying housing commission estates any more than the next boat load of refugees you would be sadly mistaken. Claiming racism and xenophobia is standard left-wing retort and is becoming laughable.
HERPA DERPA, HERPADEE DOO
I'VE GOT A PERFECT PUZZLE FOR YOU
HERPA DERPA, HERPADAH DEE
IF YOU ARE WISE, YOU'LL LISTEN TO ME.
gravyishot +

this stupid facebook bar at the bottom is for ****s

gravyishot's Avatar
Joined
Mar '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 364
Thanked 934 Times in 525 Posts
Posts
3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coezi View Post

If they had their way anyone who became unable to work or a general burden to society would be put down. This would include criminals. New arrivals would be welcomed... Then put straight into a labour camp to build the next freeway. They would have to earn their citizenship via a fixed term employment. Any able bodied person would be put to work whether they liked it or not.

You speaking for all right wingers there, or just yourself?
Coezi +

Registered User

Coezi's Avatar
Joined
Dec '05
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 68
Thanked 543 Times in 174 Posts
Posts
767

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

You speaking for all right wingers there, or just yourself?

You don't want to know what would happen if I had my way
HERPA DERPA, HERPADEE DOO
I'VE GOT A PERFECT PUZZLE FOR YOU
HERPA DERPA, HERPADAH DEE
IF YOU ARE WISE, YOU'LL LISTEN TO ME.
austraboy +

I like toast

austraboy's Avatar
Joined
Sep '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 14
Thanked 146 Times in 81 Posts
Posts
911

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coezi View Post

You don't want to know what would happen if I had my way

I do. Enlighten us.
Geezah +

Raaaaaaaaaaaaarrghh

Geezah's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,825
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,176 Posts
Posts
12,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Who is going to pay for and run this dreamboat camp of yours?

I dont think many Australian taxpayers would be too happy about their government providing free food, education, healthcare and citizenship guarantee's to the West (if they could even organize such a thing) to foreign nationals on foreign soil. Particularly when the offer is so damn sweet, that there'll be literally millions turning up at the door of this camp with their hands out, and suddenly this camp is the size of a small country surviving entirely on welfare. Hell even a quarter of Indonesia (that's 60m people) don't have it so good.

Your idea is a fantasy full of holes & it will never fly.

Stop pretending you have your very own portal into the minds of Australians: you don't.
Avatar artist: Dain Fagerholm
gravyishot +

this stupid facebook bar at the bottom is for ****s

gravyishot's Avatar
Joined
Mar '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 364
Thanked 934 Times in 525 Posts
Posts
3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coezi View Post

You don't want to know what would happen if I had my way

Tell us.
Geezah +

Raaaaaaaaaaaaarrghh

Geezah's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,825
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,176 Posts
Posts
12,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weinertron View Post


The is only one 'solution' to this problem which I think is appropriate, and that is to allow onshore processing. It is the only way to end the demonisation, and honestly, even if it is about political point scoring, I hardly think politicians are enjoying this particular brand of politicking. Keep the point scoring to the ETS or the MRRT or SOMETHING, not playing with vulnerable peoples' lives. It makes me sick.

Yeah but won't onshore processing just lead to more boats and possible deaths? I'm not particularly concerned by boat arrivals per se, but I am concerned more people will die making the voyage, and that those that do arrive in such a fashion, as legitimate and deserving as they may be for resettlement, might gain an unfair advantage above those people who end up in camps elsewhere in the world.
Avatar artist: Dain Fagerholm
phoneyhuh +

3o~

phoneyhuh's Avatar
Joined
Jul '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 16
Thanked 208 Times in 131 Posts
Posts
8,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

I dunno, it's Australians like you who are whinging about a tiny number of people coming to the country in the first place, and claiming that we'll be overrun. You have a fair disconnect from reality.

Come again? Point out where I've whinged about folks coming to this country and I'll gladly eat my hat. Like Geezah, I dont like seeing boats full of people being smashed against the rocks of Christmas island if that's what you mean? Whereas the proponents of onshore processing see that as completely acceptable.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 17-Aug-12 at 12:00pm

gravyishot +

this stupid facebook bar at the bottom is for ****s

gravyishot's Avatar
Joined
Mar '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 364
Thanked 934 Times in 525 Posts
Posts
3

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Come again? Point out where I've whinged about folks coming to this country and I'll gladly eat my hat. Like Geezah, I dont like seeing boats full of people being smashed against the rocks of Christmas island if that's what you mean? Whereas the proponents of onshore processing see that as completely acceptable.

Heh, nice crocodile tears. You're the one who has posted in the past about Australia becoming like Europe.
phoneyhuh +

3o~

phoneyhuh's Avatar
Joined
Jul '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 16
Thanked 208 Times in 131 Posts
Posts
8,070
Can you quote that?
gravyishot +

this stupid facebook bar at the bottom is for ****s

gravyishot's Avatar
Joined
Mar '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 364
Thanked 934 Times in 525 Posts
Posts
3

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Can you quote that?

Sure ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

It's the fruition of decades of progressive politics stifled by political correctness has let this problem gone unchecked.

The main reason why Sweden's far-right anti-immigration party is now gaining so much traction in their parliament is that ordinary Swede's are growing tired of the cancer that is festering away at their welfare state and turning their cities into unrecognizable cesspits ridden with unemployment and crime.

How long before we see scenes like these in every European city, or even our own?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j372uC30lyg

phoneyhuh +

3o~

phoneyhuh's Avatar
Joined
Jul '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 16
Thanked 208 Times in 131 Posts
Posts
8,070
Now that was in the context of the failures of "progressive" politics and welfare states which is an entirely different topic.. Im anything but anti-immigration in general as you've misconstrued.
gravyishot +

this stupid facebook bar at the bottom is for ****s

gravyishot's Avatar
Joined
Mar '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 364
Thanked 934 Times in 525 Posts
Posts
3
The thread was about multiculturalism and immigration.
phoneyhuh +

3o~

phoneyhuh's Avatar
Joined
Jul '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 16
Thanked 208 Times in 131 Posts
Posts
8,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

The thread was about multiculturalism and immigration.

That needs to be properly managed to avoid social problems, sure. I'd also argue that in some places in Europe it hasn't been very well managed.

That has nothing to do with the topic at hand given the extremely small numbers who arrive to Australia by boat (by comparison to authorized arrivals). The aim of the game here is to avoid death at sea, indefinite expense and pressure on the Navy.
austraboy +

I like toast

austraboy's Avatar
Joined
Sep '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 14
Thanked 146 Times in 81 Posts
Posts
911

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

That needs to be properly managed to avoid social problems, sure. I'd also argue that in some places in Europe it hasn't been very well managed.

That has nothing to do with the topic at hand given the extremely small numbers who arrive to Australia by boat (by comparison to authorized arrivals). The aim of the game here is to avoid death at sea, indefinite expense and pressure on the Navy.

Bullshit

That's been the alleged name of the game since very recently.

Whilst I'm glad that the media and the pollies would now appear to be focusing on the life saving aspect rather than the we're being over run aspect, however for years that has not been the case. Also I believe that the majority of Australian's that are opposed to refugees arriving by boat don't give a shit about them dying at sea.
phoneyhuh +

3o~

phoneyhuh's Avatar
Joined
Jul '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 16
Thanked 208 Times in 131 Posts
Posts
8,070
True, I've seriously heard bogans whinging about people arriving by boat because there's: "Already too much traffic on the roads in Western Sydney" There's never been a shortage of ill-informed morons hey.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 17-Aug-12 at 01:31pm

robin78 +

no

robin78's Avatar
Joined
Oct '09
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 50
Thanked 63 Times in 52 Posts
Posts
673

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

I dont like seeing boats full of people being smashed against the rocks of Christmas island if that's what you mean?


More often than not that sentiment is just code for 'I'd rather they died somewhere else, off the front page of the newspaper so it doesn't ruin my morning cornflakes'



pretty dumb going for the humanitarian angle when you are pro-concentration camp bro
Weinertron +

random shoutbox generator

Weinertron's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 2,455
Thanked 970 Times in 437 Posts
Posts
3,700

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Yeah but won't onshore processing just lead to more boats and possible deaths? I'm not particularly concerned by boat arrivals per se, but I am concerned more people will die making the voyage, and that those that do arrive in such a fashion, as legitimate and deserving as they may be for resettlement, might gain an unfair advantage above those people who end up in camps elsewhere in the world.

But this is the thing. In the short term, we have people arriving on boats. They will not stop until we have set up some kind of reasonable humanitarian process. So why are we effectively jailing these people for something which is not their fault and something that they probably have no idea about? This does not send the right signal to the electorate. The mere process of locking them up for 3+ years is going to further entrench the "BOAT PEOPLE ARE BAD" undercurrent which is currently prevailing within the electorate and this is not going to do anyone any good.


Wouldn't it make more sense to say "Okay, it looks like we have a fair few asylum seekers coming by boat at the moment, why don't we process them onshore for the time being until we can agree on a deterrent which is both effective, fair AND keeps human rights at the forefront?". The longer people debate how to implement a possible deterrent whilst simultaneously treating these poor human beings like shit, the more they will be demonised and the less people will actually stop to think about how fucking terrible we're acting.

The leaders in this country need to lead by example. And the first step is to actually accept that most of the arrivals by boat are genuine, so we should act accordingly and extend our hand out and help.



NB: How many deaths by boat are there? serious question. Is it comparable to the amount of deaths in say a refugee camp in Pakistan or refugee camps in some other nation?
Fuck Everything Forever
Geezah +

Raaaaaaaaaaaaarrghh

Geezah's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,825
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,176 Posts
Posts
12,935
I just think it will lead to more people making a potentially fatal journey. The scenes at Christmas Island of people being mashed in rough waters near a jagged rocky coastline, made, and still make, me feel sick. So does indefinite detention. And the thought of people gaining an unfair advantage over other, just as unfortunate and deserving asylum seekers in other parts of the world, doesn't thrill me as an idea either.

And I'll repeat: I'm not sure this reformulated solution will actually solve the issue. Also, I have nothing but contempt for those - especially politicians who are the ones that set the tone of the debate - who demonise these people by talking about them in abject dehumanising terminology.
Avatar artist: Dain Fagerholm
Weinertron +

random shoutbox generator

Weinertron's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 2,455
Thanked 970 Times in 437 Posts
Posts
3,700
I guess we're on the same page Geezah. But I am still of the opinion that this "debate" (such as it is) has raged on for more than a decade and the terrible views our nation holds are firmly entrenched. Dehumanisation is par for the course it seems. This needs to stop. And it is going to take a lot more than a few words from our pollies to set the record straight, I dare say we will need something that says to the people "Hey, asylum seekers are ok folks. We have no problems letting them on our land and granting them asylum if they are indeed deserving"

Besides, we still need a policy which takes into account when people still happen to land on our shore despite our best efforts at dissuading them from making the voyage. It will happen, it would be naive to think that some offshore solution will stop 100% of people making the journey. People are keen to quote the Pacific Solution as some measure of success, but it has been shown ITT that those figures are bunkum/fudged.
Fuck Everything Forever
robin78 +

no

robin78's Avatar
Joined
Oct '09
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 50
Thanked 63 Times in 52 Posts
Posts
673

Quote:

When Jon Faine interviewed Tony Abbott on ABC's 774 on Tuesday, something unusual happened.

The Opposition Leader's careless use of words was actually challenged.

Abbott, discussing the asylum seekers issue, asserted:

Frankly, we've had 22,000 illegal arrivals, almost 400 illegal boats ...

Faine responded:

They're not illegal. Tony Abbott, do I need to remind you that the use of words in this is critical? They are not illegal arrivals. There is nothing illegal about seeking asylum when you are a refugee.

Abbott:

Well, I'm making my point Jon ...

Faine:

Well, so am I making mine! And I think it's been made to you before.

Tony Abbott did not further dispute the point. Like an errant school kid, he seemed to accept the admonishment. Yet within 24 hours, he was again referring to asylum seekers as illegals. Nobody in the media pulled him up. He knew they wouldn't. They rarely do.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-1...abbott/4203120


muthafuka sure does get a free run
Weinertron +

random shoutbox generator

Weinertron's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 2,455
Thanked 970 Times in 437 Posts
Posts
3,700
Hmmm... I wonder, this constant reference to "illegal arrivals". Does this constitute as vilification of asylum seekers?

What I'm driving at is can Mr Fuckwit get done under section 18C? Paging L-A to the thread
Fuck Everything Forever
custaro +

Thirsty Critter

custaro's Avatar
Joined
Jun '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 898
Thanked 743 Times in 229 Posts
Posts
7,544

Quote:

54,000 refugees, no questions asked

AUSTRALIA is facing a flood of economic refugees. But the big numbers aren't from the north, they are from the across the Tasman where Statistics New Zealand yesterday announced the biggest exodus to Australia on record.

An extraordinary 53,900 New Zealanders moved to Australia in the year to July - around the entire population of New Plymouth, New Zealand's 11th biggest city.

The number dwarfs the 9607 asylum seekers who arrived in Australian waters by boat.


The record emigration of 53,900 is a dramatic increase from the same period a year before when 46,450 New Zealanders moved to Australia - itself a record at the time.

"These are economic refugees," New Zealand Council of Trade Unions secretary Peter Conway told The Age.

New Zealand's unemployment rate is 6.8 per cent, little changed since the economic crisis. Australia's is 5.2 per cent, down on the GFC peak of 5.9 per cent. "New Zealand was hit much harder than Australia," Mr Conway said. "We didn't have the big boost in government spending you had that pushed unemployment back down. Before the crisis our unemployment rate was briefly the best in the OECD. It is now mid-range, much worse than yours."

New Zealand wages are around 20 per cent lower than Australia's when measured in terms of purchasing power.

The Closer Economic Relations agreement with New Zealand means Australia is unable to control its trans-Tasman border. It is required to accept as permanent or long-term residents as many of New Zealand's 4.4 million residents as want to move here. If present trends continue Australia's annual intake from New Zealand will exceed 100,000 within five years. New Zealand has had no net arrivals over the past year.

New Zealand's Immigration Minister was himself in Australia yesterday. Nathan Guy said he didn't normally comment on external migration as his role was looking after people coming to the country.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/opin...821-24kpb.html
you're in my hut now
trist +

too many years on ITM

trist's Avatar
Joined
Mar '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 198
Thanked 315 Times in 243 Posts
Posts
8,768
^ NZ should have always been part of Australia.....and in some respects it always has been.
Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren't zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous B movie. Gil Scott-Heron
CheelWinston +

not a cop

CheelWinston's Avatar
Joined
May '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 912
Thanked 2,128 Times in 1,172 Posts
Posts
13,908
Lebensraum
Listen to your friend Cheely Zane
He is a cool guy...
robin78 +

no

robin78's Avatar
Joined
Oct '09
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 50
Thanked 63 Times in 52 Posts
Posts
673

Quote:

Refugee advocates are outraged over a racist email that was circulated around the Department of Immigration and Citizenship's Perth office.

The email portrays boat people as lazy welfare leeches who have flooded suburbia, driving locals out of their houses.

"They come in turbans and Toyota trucks. And buy big house with welfare bucks," the email said, accompanied by animated images of asylum seekers rowing their boats to Australia.

"We have hobby, it's called breeding. Welfare cheques pay for baby feeding. Kids need dentist? Wives need pills? We get free! We got no bills! Australians crazy STUPID! They work all year, to keep the welfare running here."

The email continues: "Fourteen families moving in, neighbour's patience wearing thin. Finally, stupid Aussie guy moves away.

"Now I buy his house, then I say, 'Find more immigrants for house to rent'. And in the yard I put a tent."

DIAC has confirmed the "inappropriate email" was circulated among staff.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...parks-inquiry/


WA reprezent
Derelict +

Derpcore gets the derpy dollars

Derelict's Avatar
Joined
Oct '08
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 5,921
Thanked 5,918 Times in 3,420 Posts
Posts
29,575
The truth is outraging?
Music is the best drug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningWithScissors View Post

PM derelict for manual labour shit

robin78 +

no

robin78's Avatar
Joined
Oct '09
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 50
Thanked 63 Times in 52 Posts
Posts
673
What truth? That WA has a disproportionate amount of derpers?
Reply

« Previous Thread Next Thread »

Posting Rules

+
    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts