Hell, I miss the field of dreams, eecky thumbs ... trance parties in sydney park, ultra sonic @ somewhere I forget... the parties @ minto stadium and many other parties of the mid to late 90's...

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

i don't think the music is any worse or better, just the scene is very different. it should be remembered that festivals were huge when rave first started in sydney in the late 80's/early 90's, so there's nothing different there.......they are just much bigger now and they were called raves not festivals.

To me the biggest thing that has killed dance music and the sene is the internet. I recall back in the day, the only time you could hear a new release is when carl cox toured. he would play a 3 hour set and you could not identify one track. Now, you know what set the DJ is likely to play before he has even stepped into the country by simply looking at what he played the week before on the internet.

I agree with buffed 110%. The real magic of rave back then was going to a party and being blown away by unbelievable music that you'd never heard before - brand new sounds that just took you away on a journey. You'd hassle a DJ to find out what it was called but you had a cat's arse chance of being able to buy the 12" unless you were one of the people there the morning the shipment came in (that wasn't reserved for a DJ), so the only way you'd get the tracks was by grabbing hold of a mixtape.

The original Mockmoon was one of those tracks for me (not the later Peace, Love, Ecstacy version - the original where she talks about "living on my planet is easy"). I remember hearing that mixed in with Age of Love at a warehouse in the middle of nowhere and it absolutely blowing my mind, I spent the next few months trying to find out what it was as no one had a clue and the DJ's were being hush!

Thesedays, people get the track the moment it leaves the producers studio via live track listings, streams of other events, myspace, facebook, itunes or any online record store. There's not as much magic to it because if you're a fan then chances are you'd have heard it on your PC long before you hear it on the dancefloor.

Music has evolved so far from what it was back then, but I always look at as a positive thing because it's been strong enough to survive for over 20 years. I don't feel sorry for the kids of today at all, in fact I think they're doing a decent job carrying on the legacy in clubs today that was started in those warehouses and fields all that time ago. Yeah, it's all commercial now but everything works in cycles - I just hope I'm not too old and rusty when the next underground cycle begins

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

I agree with buffed 110%. The real magic of rave back then was going to a party and being blown away by unbelievable music that you'd never heard before - brand new sounds that just took you away on a journey. You'd hassle a DJ to find out what it was called but you had a cat's arse chance of being able to buy the 12" unless you were one of the people there the morning the shipment came in (that wasn't reserved for a DJ), so the only way you'd get the tracks was by grabbing hold of a mixtape.

The original Mockmoon was one of those tracks for me (not the later Peace, Love, Ecstacy version - the original where she talks about "living on my planet is easy"). I remember hearing that mixed in with Age of Love at a warehouse in the middle of nowhere and it absolutely blowing my mind, I spent the next few months trying to find out what it was as no one had a clue and the DJ's were being hush!

Thesedays, people get the track the moment it leaves the producers studio via live track listings, streams of other events, myspace, facebook, itunes or any online record store. There's not as much magic to it because if you're a fan then chances are you'd have heard it on your PC long before you hear it on the dancefloor.

Music has evolved so far from what it was back then, but I always look at as a positive thing because it's been strong enough to survive for over 20 years. I don't feel sorry for the kids of today at all, in fact I think they're doing a decent job carrying on the legacy in clubs today that was started in those warehouses and fields all that time ago. Yeah, it's all commercial now but everything works in cycles - I just hope I'm not too old and rusty when the next underground cycle begins

I agree totally. Well put! PLUR.

Thats right it did take you on a journey everyone was there to have a good time and listen to this awesome underground music that was so euphoric it really made you feel t home everyone was friendly people would just talk to you asking if your having a good night and so on nobody does that anymore people are not as happy as before, it may be the shit drugs but just listen to the music great buildups that would get you so pumped, put a smile on your face you could not wipe off, I used to love listening to epic sets and I would love when track would mix into the next and it was a perfect complement to the previous track being played, feels as if the dj`s wanted you to have a good time, now its like they just wanna play their latest tracks and thats it, The sound used to be crystral clear hearing every single note in the music now its just loud fucking noise.

i so agree with taza, and the drugs are shit now but even if they were good i doubt it would save the music its just senseless beats and sounds (most of it), wheres the movings melodies and intense buildups with a climax that has a satisfying yet unpredictable result.

most tunes now just drop back to the beat it started with after the buildup! wow! <--sarcastic in case u werent sure

oh and yes i feel sorry for the kids of today only for the fact they have less knowledge

Personally there's a lot I miss myself from the past - put that down to nostalgia - but so much more I dig today.

I think the current batch of kids are lucky.

I'm a young guy that finds a huge amount of todays electronic music pretty amazing.

I also find alot of older stuff pretty amazing.

Personally, whenever I find a style I love, I look into its history because I like to know the roots of the current sounds I enjoy... Not blowing my trumpet but I know an absolute shitload of older stuff... probably more older than new.

My generation are pretty ignorant... alot of them take whats spoonfed to them through the radio and through shit festivals without ever asking the question, "what else is out there?"... I dont know why this is but its like that and its retarded.

To write off all new music when comparing it to older stuff is pretty pointless though.... whose to say people wont look back on the quality sounds of today in 20 years time and be inspired by it?

There is obviously a whole lot more shit out there now though..... EDM/Electronic has become alot more commercial and accessible to the average person so obviously major labels will take advantage of that.

Cant throw all of us kids in the same basket though.... we're not all ignorant knobs.

Argh!! Listen to us oldies (mid-30 year olds) saying and thinking the things that come on let's admit it we never, ever, NEVER thought we would hear ourselves say... "back in my day it was so much better..."

I have pontificated and discombobulated myself so many times musing over this and can point to a multitude of reasons why this is so but fear it is society itself which has dictated the way the music scene is today. And to a certain extent my friends we are just as much to blame for this.

I will give you an example. I have triplet cousins who have just turned 17. When they were babies, I had them sitting in my room with the Kenwood speakers that were bigger than an airplane jet engine pounding Dyewitness, Ultrasonic, Sequential One, Scooter, Slipmatt, etc etc into their fragile little minds.

Last week I am at a family do and they start talking shit about the new wave of music they are listening to... After giving them their Andy Warhol 15 minutes of fame I took them all into my car and put the iPod on. I took them on a little journey, an educational experience that was teaching them of the evolution of the underground scene as we knew it, what it meant to us, what the crowds were like, what it meant to go out with mates, enjoy the time you shared, the experience, the moment which you would reminisce about for years to come. Looking after each other, all coming home together, making sure everyone was safe, talking and rating each djs performance.

They could not have been any happier. Loved the sounds, wanted to learn more, wanted to download everything they could, hear the stories, regale in the memories and then it dawned on me.

We were to blame.

We let the legacy slip away from us. We didn't pass the torch on to the people we wanted to entrust and enshrine what we held onto most dearly.

Commercialism was the enemy and the enemy won. Everything we cherished slowly became corrupted, changed a litle, changed a little bit more, sometimes to our approval to a point where what was a white canvas was now a charcoal black illusion of what once was.

Perhaps we can take it back. Perhaps the days of the superclubs are over and these kids who "can't ignore the hardcore" are yearning for this nirvana we talk about.

The sounds of the underground can make a resurchange. It is up to us if we want it to.

Kids of today can be educated. I have loads of younger generation ravers and clubbers who message me asking about tracks and mixes plus also a fair few who come along to my events. They love the Older music and take interest in the scene.

As a nineteen year old chick only really beginning to familiarise herself with the dance community in Australia today - gotta say, I feel really fucking ripped off by the scene in place at the moment.

Got mates who were in the rave scene in the nineties, and they tell me all these amazing stories I turn green with jealousy on hearing. I go out to a club that people tell me will be playing my sort of jams - all I hear is trashy uninspired electro, wedged in between a fake blonde with too much fake tan and some 'roid-muching fuck in Ed Hardy probably fresh from snorting shit-quality coke in the bathrooms.

It's fucked. After a few repeat experiences I have resigned myself to staying at home with a few mates and the only decent PC speakers we can afford on our student budgets, getting a few pills, and playing our own jams all night long until the sun rises. Which, of course, is always great - but on the other hand, it's such a fucking disappointment, not being able to expose ourselves to DJs with real taste and skills, being able to discover new amazing tunes out on the dancefloor, meeting new people... and fuck me, some of the stories about warehouse parties and shit I've heard... ugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JulesPLees

Im now 30 - i started going out to underages in the mid 90's - i got to hear some seminal tracks that shaped dance music. Since then tunes seem to come and go so much faster (as does time i guess) - it just seems to me that classic dance tunes arent really what they used to be.

what i kinda mean i guess...

So many rehashes of yunes shows a definite lack of creativity. Hold that sucker down, that old bucketheads tune etc etc get the remix treatment and A. Sound Shitter than the originals and B. Show no originality and really dont gie the next generation a dance sound of their own.


The new 'Big tunes' of today - ie Calvin Harris tripe - is just PLain bad. Now im not being a grumpy old fart who cant see the good in it..it just isnt really that good. Compare something like Calvin Harris to Da Hool - Met her at the love parade...now granted mhatlp isnt the best thing ever written - but it does have (as do some of da hools other classics) a bit more depth...and groove to it the the aforementioned harris.

Where is the groundbreaking awesome mad shit thats brand new that was made in the last 6 months? who makes quality crossover anthems anymore? has dance music become to throwaway?


I dunno maybe this is just me getting old and jaded. But seriously im pretty happy i grew up when i did - i guess i missed a lot of the acid house stuff which was probably pretty kool - but i seriously reckon if i was 16-20 years old today - i wouldnt have a thing to do with dance music.

pssssssshhh!

Calvin Harris is like trying to compare the spice girls as a group being ground breaking. I mean come on. There are so many artist in the electronic music 'scene' breaking boundaries and taking music in a new and exciting direction.

Where do I begin? The electronic music scene in Denmark, places such as Copenhagen, is groundbreaking to say the least. Artist such as Trentemoller, Lulu Rouge, Mike Sheridan and Mikael Simpson are producing some of the most amazing and inspiring minimal/techno/indie around.

Artist that come to mind who have produced anthems which will never be forgotten amongst a world wide community include Booka Shade, Pryda, Sasha, Loco Dice, Digweed, (the list is endless really) are without doubt comparable to anthems in 90's. Sure music has evolved into different sub genres but thats not to assume they are in any way of lesser quality.

The scene in Sydney is heavily influenced by same-same electro house and it can be quite difficult to find decent/new/anthem-esque (if you will) music but to suggest that electronic music as a whole has lost its ability to excite is a bit ridiculous.

anyyyywho.. continue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt St Warrior

Argh!! Listen to us oldies (mid-30 year olds) saying and thinking the things that come on let's admit it we never, ever, NEVER thought we would hear ourselves say... "back in my day it was so much better..."

I have pontificated and discombobulated myself so many times musing over this and can point to a multitude of reasons why this is so but fear it is society itself which has dictated the way the music scene is today. And to a certain extent my friends we are just as much to blame for this.

I will give you an example. I have triplet cousins who have just turned 17. When they were babies, I had them sitting in my room with the Kenwood speakers that were bigger than an airplane jet engine pounding Dyewitness, Ultrasonic, Sequential One, Scooter, Slipmatt, etc etc into their fragile little minds.

Last week I am at a family do and they start talking shit about the new wave of music they are listening to... After giving them their Andy Warhol 15 minutes of fame I took them all into my car and put the iPod on. I took them on a little journey, an educational experience that was teaching them of the evolution of the underground scene as we knew it, what it meant to us, what the crowds were like, what it meant to go out with mates, enjoy the time you shared, the experience, the moment which you would reminisce about for years to come. Looking after each other, all coming home together, making sure everyone was safe, talking and rating each djs performance.

They could not have been any happier. Loved the sounds, wanted to learn more, wanted to download everything they could, hear the stories, regale in the memories and then it dawned on me.

We were to blame.

We let the legacy slip away from us. We didn't pass the torch on to the people we wanted to entrust and enshrine what we held onto most dearly.

Commercialism was the enemy and the enemy won. Everything we cherished slowly became corrupted, changed a litle, changed a little bit more, sometimes to our approval to a point where what was a white canvas was now a charcoal black illusion of what once was.

Perhaps we can take it back. Perhaps the days of the superclubs are over and these kids who "can't ignore the hardcore" are yearning for this nirvana we talk about.

The sounds of the underground can make a resurchange. It is up to us if we want it to.

This makes me sad. As a seventeen year old I can only hope it can make a recovery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impulsory

This makes me sad. As a seventeen year old I can only hope it can make a recovery.

If you turn 18 by October then come to Reunion Rave and experience some of the people and sounds.

Man some people here sound jaded. Just like any generation, when you have kids, a proper job, morgage etc of course you can't have those e-fuelled nights where you hitch a ride to a rave, become best mates with the guy next to you in the chillout rooms, hear music that you never heard before and watch the sun rise as you trudge back to the train station.

Well guess what, it still happens, In fact it happened quite a lot to me and my mates this year at different parties. Sure, some are are more mainstream festivals with a large dickhead factor, but others are underground nights in dimily lit clubs, warehouse, forest floors, mates houses etc. I think what people miss isn't so much the music, but instead miss the experience of being young and able to go nuts on a Friday night. It's not just about techno, but staying up late, trying new things, getting excited the weeks before a festival, making new friends, and being one of those people 'in the know' about an event, scene or DJ who'll be dropping some awesome beats.

I've got quite a lot of old-skool music, but comparing it to some of the sounds now, it does sound primative. The production in dance records is so much higher now, with deeper bass, rushing white noise and crystal clear vocals.

I'm sure the old raves were great, but so are the new ones. It's just what you grow up with. Give me dubstep or drum n bass over happy hardcore, filtered electro and funky house over cheezy mid ninties vocal house, or thundering psy-trance over tinny goa any day; but that's just what I'm used to. I'm sure the drugs were better, but new ones have also come along with fuel the scene (and no I'm not talking about G).

Don't feel sorry for the current generation, just be happy that after nearly 30 years of house music we are still running around in dark rooms eating magic pills listening to repedative electronic music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6rahFZwCUA

And this was over ten years ago now!

Dgrub, Babe I think your missing the point a bit here. The thing is when I click on your username you come up as being a 22 year old - so in the late 1990's and early 2000's it's highly likely you weren't involved in the scene - so sweetie I can't see how you can actually compare it. I don't mean to bag you, I'm just trying to state a fact.

I do agree with you it is more than just the music. It's about the people and places.

I am an older chic that very occasionally still goes out and I have to say that in general there is a lot more aggression these days.

I do think you have raised one point that actually has impacted a lot -

Quote:

I'm sure the drugs were better, but new ones have also come along with fuel the scene (and no I'm not talking about G).

Yes simply put the drugs where better MUCH better.
Since 2006 there has been a decrease it the level of MDMA used in many drugs and they are mixed with a wider variety of substances that lead to an inferior product. I also feel that people use to be less inclined to mixing their drugs because the quality was better. Where now there is a much wider mixing of drugs and these can tend to create a more aggressive attitude.

That said meow meow might see some change to the quality of drugs as it filters through society a bit more.


Honey in general though you needed to be there - in melbourne there was nothing that compared to the beautiful nights out at dome/skin.

da hool is wak jules, sorry man pick a better tune for fuck sake

The music seemed more enjoyable to me back then, but I put that down to it being exciting and fresh at the time - and the whole old times bias. What I really feel sorry for the current generation is more about the vibe. The last few raves I ever went to (long ago, to 'go back and have a look how they ended up') were very disappointing, and not even CLOSE to how the older raves were. It was never perfect, but it was a whole different outlook and a whole different vibe back then. The whole outlook and ideal back then was sort of positive, whereas now days its more egotistical/hardcore/tough. It's now basically a fashion focused electronic version of gangstas. The whole currrent day 'LADS' phenomenon is seriously messed up.

Re "where would old schoolers go to cut loose"? In my honest opinion the closest thing you'll get to old school raves is DOOFS or psytrance parties/festivals. The old rave ideal seemed to move to doofs for a while, that scene has also changed a lot now, but it's a lot closer to what raves were than what today's raves are!

No I don't feel sorry for the kids of today. I think the scene is fantastic and I'm glad to still be in it. Granted the last gig I went to in Aus was 5 years ago, but I still had fun times.

The scene has changed a lot I agree, but you have to move past it all and enjoy a rave for what it's all about. The music. Finding your little patch of dirt or concrete and cutting loose.

I think the styles of music have changed for the better in some areas. Much of my tastes have changed and evolved and I believe there will always be something playing that turns me on. Nothing like the opening beats of a track to give you goosebumps..... and yes I still get that feeling!

The chemicals have gotten better imo. The decor and lazers have gone off the hook! (I remember when tin foil scuptures at Adventjah were exciting news) And I think production and efficiency of party management at most gigs is fantastic.

The etiquette of raving has changed a bit with the newcomers a bit reticent with chatting to randoms (like me) and letting themselves go on the dancefloor, but everyone has to start somewhere.

Lads and Beef jerkeys are a pain in the ass, but you always have wankers in every social situation and why should they miss out on raving? It's a shit that the new generation seem intent on getting as fucked up as possible when at a party. That puking in a corner and collapsing is good times.

I believe the repercussions of this mean tighter security, a less understanding police force and government and a black mark for ravers from society. This won't stop me from going out however....

nothing beats the beats of the 90's! they never get old!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Msraver

Not really. They don't know any different, so what they're hearing now is cool and cutting edge to them. I'm sure they're having a great time.

I remember in the mid/late 80's (it would have been 87 - 89), I was up late one night and had triple J on. They played some sort of amazing new music and I remember thinking it was mind blowingly different and I liked it.

I still remember the DJ saying something like "And that is a new style of music coming out of the UK right now called ACID HOUSE". And while I didn't discover raves until 93, that was certainly the start of my love affair with electronica/dance music that night.

Rave music/techno, what ever you want to call it, is/was great. I still play my mixtapes, yes, tapes, in my car all the time. But if I was going out now for the first time and coming across Armin or Tiesto, I would be gobsmacked. I am gobsmacked anyway. :

Exactly my thoughts too!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZyklonB

Raves were a place for everyone. Misfits, freaks, hippies, graffitti writers, nerds. Now its for a bunch of wanna be hardcore, trendy elitist bitches....

i came from hiphop/metal background, and walked into my first party wearing a metallica master of puppets shirts, no one cared what you weared as long as you were there and avin it!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by taza

Thats right it did take you on a journey everyone was there to have a good time and listen to this awesome underground music that was so euphoric it really made you feel t home everyone was friendly people would just talk to you asking if your having a good night and so on nobody does that anymore people are not as happy as before, it may be the shit drugs but just listen to the music great buildups that would get you so pumped, put a smile on your face you could not wipe off, I used to love listening to epic sets and I would love when track would mix into the next and it was a perfect complement to the previous track being played, feels as if the dj`s wanted you to have a good time, now its like they just wanna play their latest tracks and thats it, The sound used to be crystral clear hearing every single note in the music now its just loud fucking noise.

i agree.. gone are the days of REAL good music.. just loud noise with cliche back beats that don't even mix well with whatever it is their mixing.. and yeah they need drugs.. drugs make you think any loud thud is music.. LOL very few great DJ's are left that actually spin on the spot.. those are the ones i look for.. not fakers who pretend to spin but just play tracks they mixed on their laptop..

A few facts about 90s raves:

* The drugs were 100x better
* There were multiple genres of rave being techno, trance, jungle & dnb & happy hardcore, doof and more
* Garry Shepard was not a raver. He is a dj groupie. He also has no idea what he is talking about EVER. Don't read his shit, he wasn't there.
* Shuffling as it is now called NEVER had a name. At best it was called Raving or Melbourne Raving.
* Regardless of find memories. Promoters are promoters. they only ever cared about coin.
* Rave music constantly evolved and still is evolving.
* Rave was before Internet and mainstream music was horrible and stale
* We thought the future was now in the early mid 90s

Wish I was old enough to party in the 90's! Rave had a real flavour back then.
To me, in the 90's, it was all so futuristic and awesome - and now when we're in this internet and tech age, this is not the sound of the future anymore - it's the sound that suits the contemporary society. Maybe that's why electronic music in general is gaining more and more worldwide popularity.

the whole 'scene' is not just about the music, if you were 16-20 today you'd still be out to taste some new concert-atmosphere, drugs, and guys/girls attention, I know I would be

what are we all f*n to right now?

having kids and masturbating furiously?

I have a few friends at Uni who are about 18-20 and they played me some dub-step. I must be really old because it didn't just sound like shit, it didn't sound like anything. I'm baffled. I played them Panic by Force Mass Motion. They said it sounded like an old video game I guess we were both right.

You make the old days sound so good.

Just getting into the acid scene - been listening to the Chicago upstarts for a while - Knuckles, Louis., you know... and these parties sound like the best warehouse parties ever! Why doesn't someone just keep on doing them? No niche?
Oh wellm I might stumble across one soon enough.

Spoiler:

I'm 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOXMAKER

Yes I do feel sorry for them...

They missed out on a lot.... Melbourne in its infancy !!

The early evolution of the Genre's and the fashion and the Shuffle?

The resonating sound of the corrugated iron as you were lining up at "SHED 14"

Daffy's.... and double dip strawberrys....

Renegade Tracksuits ....

Parties with no Muscle heads

Parties where there were rows upon rows of RAVERS stomping it out like Soldiers ...

When people went out to Rock! not just to get loaded up on K or G

GLOBAL VILLAGE....

Well said that's what I miss most.

I only started in 99 though...,

Quote:

Once they realised that they could fuse the underground and commercial wog crowd into one party

Quote:

bunch of steroid freak muzzas wondering how easy it would be to rape your girlfriend.

Wow. I used to go to raves between 1992-1994 (actually the start of 1995).

I imagined them as places where you could be yourself and where all were welcome.

Not really true. Plenty of posers, people wanting to be cool, boasting about their contacts, "in" and "out" crowds.

If anything I was gonna feel sorry for the kids that Australia is now a more racist place than it was before Howard.

But maybe I was too high to realise that racism was prevalent amongst ravers as well.

Hey - it's Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Freddys Cat

I played them Panic by Force Mass Motion. They said it sounded like an old video game.

Personally, I reckon Panic sounds like an old rusty steel tin can kicked down an alleyway staircase...

...but that's just me.

I think what's happening now was really inevitable with dance music. I always knew that it was the future (when I heard that first PeeWee ferris mix on JJJ way back in early 1995 it sure as hell seemed futuristic!) and even though it killed me waiting through the late 90s to be old enough to go to these parties and experience the the music I loved, I got there in the end and was able to be there for the third and final wave of the rave scene. I wouldnt trade those days for the world, but then again... who doesn't speak of their younger years like that. At least I didnt spend the time when I was 18 moping that the music wasn't as innovative and cool than when I was 12.

Re: the internet... Without it, I wouldn't have even known that hardcore was still going and that great tracks like Elysium by Scott Brown were coming out. Later, thanks largely to this forum I re-gained a lot of lost mixtapes and heard so much stuff that I never got to back in the day. The fact that youtube has become this cultural repository for rave music and culture has brought a great deal of admiration from the current generation of young folk.

I hope at least that the legacy of rave is a catylist for peoples imagination, now that it's archived to such an extent.