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Now is the Slipper of our discontent . . .

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Now is the Slipper of our discontent . . .
Peter Slipper must have read the writing on the wall about his chances of holding on to his pre-selection:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...124-1nvn4.html

Harry Jenkins out, Peter Slipper in. Which means that it is now very unlikely that there will be an election before 2013, so Abbott's "huff and I'll puff and there'll be a new election" strategy has failed.

It also probably means that Wilkie's vote is no longer needed, so that pokies reform no longer becomes so important. Personally, I'd be disappointed if the ALP caved in to the pokies lobby and shelved it, but it does mean that Wilkie's threats to bring down the Government, which were never believable, can now safely be ignored.
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Both sides seem to be calling this a victory. Some Liberal Party supporters heard "Harry Jenkins resigned" and believe that a byelection is imminent. Some overlook Abbott's "sell my arse" quote in saying that the Speaker's resignation just proves Abbott's political nous in chosing not to form a minority government by securing the votes of Bandt and Wilkie.

If Slipper does become Speaker, it will be interesting to see who the Deputy Speaker is.

Between the election and the formation of the government, Abbott praised Jenkins' ability as a speaker and said that he'd like to appoint Jenkins for the same role were the coalition parties to form government. It's likely that the praise was genuine even if the motive wasn't.
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Can someone give me a quick answer as to why the Speaker has to be an elected member of parliament and not an independent entity?

Given the fact the speaker doesn't get to vote, surely the electorate the Speaker represents loses their representation?

It also clearly fucks with the functionality of parliament when it's a hung parliament.

I dun geddit...
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Great move by Gillard
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The Speaker does get to vote if there is an equal number of Aye and Nay votes. This happens relatively rarely.

Why an elected representative chairs Parliament, I don't know. Normally, they're as good as anyone else. With the early House of Lords, I can imagine that the feudal lords would not have wanted a villein telling them when they could and couldn't speak.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by austraboy View Post

Can someone give me a quick answer as to why the Speaker has to be an elected member of parliament and not an independent entity?

Section 35 of the Constitution:

35. The House of Representatives shall, before proceeding to the despatch of any other business, choose a member to be the Speaker of the House, and as often as the office of Speaker becomes vacant the House shall again choose a member to be the Speaker. The Speaker shall cease to hold his office if he ceases to be a member. He may be removed from office by a vote of the House, or he may resign his office or his seat by writing addressed to the Governor-General.
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Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post

Section 35 of the Constitution:

35. The House of Representatives shall, before proceeding to the despatch of any other business, choose a member to be the Speaker of the House, and as often as the office of Speaker becomes vacant the House shall again choose a member to be the Speaker. The Speaker shall cease to hold his office if he ceases to be a member. He may be removed from office by a vote of the House, or he may resign his office or his seat by writing addressed to the Governor-General.

That's the rule... not really the explanation

I think I'd be pissed if my MP didn't get to participate in the regular sense... mind you my MP is Tony Abbott so actually I'd prefer he didn't participate...

Edit: When I say true majority I mean they don't need Wilkie.

ALP should be on easy streets now with a true majority in the lower house.. can't see how the Libs can claim anything beneficial out of this.

Last edited by austraboy: 24-Nov-11 at 11:11am

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Originally Posted by austraboy View Post

That's the rule... not really the explanation

Well, the explanation is that you've kinda gotta comply with the Constitution - after all, it's the law.

Hilarious to see Abbott trying to spin this into "the ALP in crisis" - yup, Tony, when one of yours defects, that means it's the other side that's in crisis. Ex-actly.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by austraboy View Post

It also clearly fucks with the functionality of parliament when it's a hung parliament.

Maybe thats why democracy doesn't seem to work too well in Africa....

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Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post

Well, the explanation is that you've kinda gotta comply with the Constitution - after all, it's the law.

Hilarious to see Abbott trying to spin this into "the ALP in crisis" - yup, Tony, when one of yours defects, that means it's the other side that's in crisis. Ex-actly.

he lives in a deluded world

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Quote:

Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post

Peter Slipper must have read the writing on the wall about his chances of holding on to his pre-selection:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...124-1nvn4.html

Harry Jenkins out, Peter Slipper in. Which means that it is now very unlikely that there will be an election before 2013, so Abbott's "huff and I'll puff and there'll be a new election" strategy has failed.

It also probably means that Wilkie's vote is no longer needed, so that pokies reform no longer becomes so important. Personally, I'd be disappointed if the ALP caved in to the pokies lobby and shelved it, but it does mean that Wilkie's threats to bring down the Government, which were never believable, can now safely be ignored.

It is still important. If they do shelve it I would struggle to even preference the ALP in future. It's important, it needs to be done. For Gillard and the ALP to drop it would be extreme cowardice. It would mean Woolies and Packer have won.
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This is actually a pretty dark day. Jenkins, whatever you think of his abilities, seems to be a man of integrity; Peter Slipper seems to be a man who has none, yet he has climbed to a position that is s'pose to be respectable.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

This is actually a pretty dark day. Jenkins, whatever you think of his abilities, seems to be a man of integrity; Peter Slipper seems to be a man who has none, yet he has climbed to a position that is s'pose to be respectable.

I wish Harry hadn't said that he resigned because he 'was frustrated from being excluded from the parliamentary process', it seems pretty disingenuous in the face of the freaking obvious.
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Originally Posted by horst View Post

I wish Harry hadn't said that he resigned because he 'was frustrated from being excluded from the parliamentary process', it seems pretty disingenuous in the face of the freaking obvious.

What's the obvious? That he was pressured to stand down by Gillard? Is that why Rudd and Slipper were on the news together a few nights ago?

Why would he resign now? Was it because the Libs had overtly made noises about having him challenged in pre-selection?
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

What's the obvious? That he was pressured to stand down by Gillard? Is that why Rudd and Slipper were on the news together a few nights ago?

Why would he resign now? Was it because the Libs had overtly made noises about having him challenged in pre-selection?

Yeah i'm sure it's that way around. Slipper was about to be banished so he has gone to the government and said OK I'm ready to talk about being speaker again.

I don't see anything dark about this. It's just what politics is. Slipper will probably be able to retire on a speakers salary now.

From my perspective what I am seeing is a greater level of unity in the ALP than in the LNP. Abbott's days are already numbered since the carbon price went through. His popularity has slipped below Gillard, so with the ALP still behind LNP I imagine the coalition is thinking there is little benefit in Abbott, but probably not that much disadvantage either. If LNP start slipping in the polls he's gone.
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Originally Posted by horst View Post

I wish Harry hadn't said that he resigned because he 'was frustrated from being excluded from the parliamentary process', it seems pretty disingenuous in the face of the freaking obvious.

I thought he'd been grumbling about the job for ages. He has been doing it for 4 straight years and it's a shit job.
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Farkin Slippery Pete finally gets into the Speaker’s chair.

At least the Government doesn’t need both Brandt and Wilkie anymore. Wish this happened prior to the passage of the mining tax so Wilkie didn't get the chance to water it down even further.
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I guess it's a possibly Slipper approached Labor about the job change. Given Tony Abbots been talking about have him face pre-selection next election, maybe he just decided to fuck Abbot over while giving himself a pay-raise at the same time.
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Watching Pyne bleat on in QT nominating members of the ALP was fairly hilarious...

Tony Windsor then nominating Pyne was priceless

I know QT shouldn't be a farce... but in this instance the farce was quite worthy.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by trist View Post

Farkin Slippery Pete finally gets into the Speaker’s chair.

At least the Government doesn’t need both Brandt and Wilkie anymore. Wish this happened prior to the passage of the mining tax so Wilkie didn't get the chance to water it down even further.

I wish Labor had waited until after the last election to start having a look at it. Rudd had to play tricky though with the same people who had just wiped the floor with him on the CPRS and turned something that might have gleaned many billions of dolllars more for infrastructure spending into the bearly, though still, worth it MRRT.

Fucking Rudd. I can't believe there was talk that he might take over again. He got Labor into this position to begin with.
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Yeah i'm sure it's that way around. Slipper was about to be banished so he has gone to the government and said OK I'm ready to talk about being speaker again.

I don't see anything dark about this. It's just what politics is. Slipper will probably be able to retire on a speakers salary now.

From my perspective what I am seeing is a greater level of unity in the ALP than in the LNP. Abbott's days are already numbered since the carbon price went through. His popularity has slipped below Gillard, so with the ALP still behind LNP I imagine the coalition is thinking there is little benefit in Abbott, but probably not that much disadvantage either. If LNP start slipping in the polls he's gone.

Isn't this the same dude who booked many many flights supposedly for his family through his travel allowance only to have them cancelled and refunded to him personally.

I call a dude like that getting the speakership fucking grim.
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

I can't believe there was talk that he might take over again. He got Labor into this position to begin with.

I don't see how you can say that.
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

What's the obvious? That he was pressured to stand down by Gillard? Is that why Rudd and Slipper were on the news together a few nights ago?

Why would he resign now? Was it because the Libs had overtly made noises about having him challenged in pre-selection?

yeah, did you read this link that lowkey posted? And I didn't even know about the the Rudd Slipper daliance.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226201793846
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I don't see how you can say that.

Played politics with the ETS for 6 months rather than selling it.
Then dropped it until election year 2013.
Then rather than getting the idea of a RSPT out there and speaking with the miners at the same time, he just announced that it was in and started playing politics again with the same people who had just fucked the CPRS.

I'm not excusing Gillard, she is plainly about as full as conviction as a pack of arseholes, but he decided he was the King of the Labor Party when he insulted every other member of parliament by having a cabinet of 4 due to his arrogance and misunderstanding of why he won in the first place.
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Geez it's weird watching Slipper in the speaker's chair. The same backwards incompetent dickhead who was my local member 15 years ago and has achieved nothing since then, now presiding over parliament. Bizarre.

What is it with voters in very safe seats? Talk about voting against your own interests.
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Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post

Well, the explanation is that you've kinda gotta comply with the Constitution - after all, it's the law.

Hilarious to see Abbott trying to spin this into "the ALP in crisis" - yup, Tony, when one of yours defects, that means it's the other side that's in crisis. Ex-actly.

Wonder who thought it was a good idea. Seems a bit daft.
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Played politics with the ETS for 6 months rather than selling it.
Then dropped it until election year 2013.
Then rather than getting the idea of a RSPT out there and speaking with the miners at the same time, he just announced that it was in and started playing politics again with the same people who had just fucked the CPRS.

I think that is an unfair assessment, there was no point in putting it to the vote because the coalition had control of the Senate. And the same with the RSPT it wasn't the miners tv campaign that stopped the resources super profits tax, it was the promise by the coalition to block it in the upper house.

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I'm not excusing Gillard, she is plainly about as full as conviction as a pack of arseholes, but he decided he was the King of the Labor Party when he insulted every other member of parliament by having a cabinet of 4 due to his arrogance and misunderstanding of why he won in the first place.

Well he definitely had a problem with workplace relations

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Wonder who thought it was a good idea. Seems a bit daft.

Hmmm - I'm pretty sure the British came up with this idea. Typical.
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Played politics with the ETS for 6 months rather than selling it.
Then dropped it until election year 2013.
Then rather than getting the idea of a RSPT out there and speaking with the miners at the same time, he just announced that it was in and started playing politics again with the same people who had just fucked the CPRS.

I'm not excusing Gillard, she is plainly about as full as conviction as a pack of arseholes, but he decided he was the King of the Labor Party when he insulted every other member of parliament by having a cabinet of 4 due to his arrogance and misunderstanding of why he won in the first place.

Rudd's first mistake was talking up Copenhagen, I still don't know why he did that when its likely failure was common knowledge. But he can't be blamed for the opposition renegging its commitment to agree to a negotiated outcome. It amazes me that no one seems to remember that. His second mistake was to do the pragmaitc thing and walk away from it. He should have stuck with it.

The RSPT... well you simply can't take on BHPB.

But the polls were not disastrous for Labor after that. You have to blame Arbib etc for going into panic mode. That was the big mistake.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by horst View Post

I think that is an unfair assessment, there was no point in putting it to the vote because the coalition had control of the Senate. And the same with the RSPT it wasn't the miners tv campaign that stopped the resources super profits tax, it was the promise by the coalition to block it in the upper house.



Well he definitely had a problem with workplace relations

I'm talking about what he had control over. He was pious bighead who thought he was smarter than everyone else and made sure everyone knew it as soon as he took office.

Excluding cabinet - fail.
Playing politics and leaving a complex attempt at a solution to a complex problem in the CPRS unexplained - fail.
Not negotiating with the Greens - massive fail.
Not calling a double disssolution as soon as possible - fail.
Dropping the ETS until the next election year - fail.
Playing footsies with RSPT - fail.

They his failures. The Opposition were shit-khunts but he and Labor should of hardened the fuck up. Maybe I just have a complete dislike for him because of his Sunday morning church stops. I still think he shares the largest portion of the blame for where Labor is now.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

Rudd's first mistake was talking up Copenhagen, I still don't know why he did that when its likely failure was common knowledge. But he can't be blamed for the opposition renegging its commitment to agree to a negotiated outcome. It amazes me that no one seems to remember that. His second mistake was to do the pragmaitc thing and walk away from it. He should have stuck with it.

The RSPT... well you simply can't take on BHPB.

But the polls were not disastrous for Labor after that. You have to blame Arbib etc for going into panic mode. That was the big mistake.

His first and biggest mistake, imo, was the exclusion of cabinet and having a small cabal deciding everything.

They could have taken on the RSPT but not straight after they had just got hammered by pretty much the same people who had just deracinated him from his authority.

Don't get me started on Arbib and Bitar. They are the exact reason I won't become an ALP member.
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what is it with dodgy queenslanders?
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Revenge is sweet for slippery pete
"Mr Slipper ordered four Coalition MPs - Luke Simpkins, Peter Dutton, Tony Smith and George Christensen - to leave the lower house chamber for one hour during a rowdy debate of a censure move by Opposition Leader Tony Abbott...

Slipper's appointment changes the fine balance of the hung parliament because Opposition Leader Tony Abbott loses two numbers on the floor. That is because Mr Slipper leaves the floor, meaning the Coalition loses a vote, while Mr Jenkins returns to the backbench, giving Labor an extra vote."

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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

Rudd's first mistake was talking up Copenhagen....His second mistake was to do the pragmaitc thing and walk away from it. He should have stuck with it.

The RSPT... well you simply can't take on BHPB.

His three big mistakes, but I think if he didn't talk up Copenhagen he would still be PM. The public expectation in Australia was sky high going into it (largely because of Rudd’s rhetoric), and it was a fucking disaster. The inflated sense of self-importance Rudd had prior to Copenhagen was breathtaking. When you have Wen Jiabao refusing to attend meetings and his lackey instead telling Merkel that Germany can’t have self-imposed legally binding reduction targets, it is a whole other level of global politics. It was the big boys at play and Rudd wasn’t even allowed into the sandpit.
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Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

what is it with dodgy queenslanders?

Queensland is our micro version of the USA's southern states imo.
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Originally Posted by trist View Post

His three big mistakes, but I think if he didn't talk up Copenhagen he would still be PM. The public expectation in Australia was sky high going into it (largely because of Rudd’s rhetoric), and it was a fucking disaster. The inflated sense of self-importance Rudd had prior to Copenhagen was breathtaking. When you have Wen Jiabao refusing to attend meetings and his lackey instead telling Merkel that Germany can’t have self-imposed legally binding reduction targets, it is a whole other level of global politics. It was the big boys at play and Rudd wasn’t even allowed to into the sandpit.

Yeah, I still don't understand the Copenhagen thing. The only thing that can explain it is that no one expected Obama to come along and create his own negotiating forum which is the root cause behind the Wen Jiabao episode, and which was all about the new world giving the old world the rasberry. Which is actually a fascinating and remarkably petty aspect of international negotiations. (I have been involved in an international thing and it always became a pissing contest of Euro central control v US laissez faire). It was an incredible cultural blow to Europe, a sign of things to come.
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Isn't this the same dude who booked many many flights supposedly for his family through his travel allowance only to have them cancelled and refunded to him personally.

I call a dude like that getting the speakership fucking grim.

Shit, was that the same guy? Well this bodes well
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From my perspective what I am seeing is a greater level of unity in the ALP than in the LNP. Abbott's days are already numbered since the carbon price went through. His popularity has slipped below Gillard, so with the ALP still behind LNP I imagine the coalition is thinking there is little benefit in Abbott, but probably not that much disadvantage either. If LNP start slipping in the polls he's gone.


IIRC didn't Abbott vow to "smash the carbon tax" as his main goal in opposition? If so, why isn't the press hanging him out to dry on his lost promise.
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^because Murdoch owns most of it
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Yeah, I still don't understand the Copenhagen thing. The only thing that can explain it is that no one expected Obama to come along and create his own negotiating forum which is the root cause behind the Wen Jiabao episode, and which was all about the new world giving the old world the rasberry. Which is actually a fascinating and remarkably petty aspect of international negotiations. (I have been involved in an international thing and it always became a pissing contest of Euro central control v US laissez faire). It was an incredible cultural blow to Europe, a sign of things to come.

I found this article in Der Spiegel interesting: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...692861,00.html

Merkel and Sarkozy appeared utterly surprised and unprepared for the power games that the emerging nations (led by China) were playing. And Obama seemed to have a foot in both camps.

It was certainly a rude shock for the Europeans, a mistake that I don’t believe they will make again. I suspect the Germans at least will not forget the lessons of Copenhagen and will (have) adjust their strategies at future forums accordingly.
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I think Rudd's big mistake was his ability to connect with his caucus.

His issues with the electorate have been overblown. PMs have their good days and they have their bad...

Labor's current problems can be directly traced to Gillard and the faceless men she conspired with. Truly, an act of betrayal of Shakespearean proportion.

First she gave him that infamous advice to shelf the ETS. Judas kiss. Then in the final scene of this sad tale of deceit and betrayal - she finished the man who trusted her in a unprecedented way- a midnight knock followed by a midnight knifing. "Et tu, Julia?"

When Rudd left the lodge, she had a clear majority - everything that has happened since, is on her.
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I found this article in Der Spiegel interesting: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...692861,00.html

Merkel and Sarkozy appeared utterly surprised and unprepared for the power games that the emerging nations (led by China) were playing. And Obama seemed to have a foot in both camps.

It was certainly a rude shock for the Europeans, a mistake that I don’t believe they will make again. I suspect the Germans at least will not forget the lessons of Copenhagen and will adjust their strategies at future forums accordingly.

Thanks for the link. I guess as I have quite a bit of insight into this (I'm working on stuff for the UN for Durban now) it's been the norm for a while for India China and Brazil to form a bloc in negotiations. In fact there are a number of blocs of countries with shared interests in these negotiations (which really all boil down into developing countries wanting money from developed countries for as little commitment as possible). It was really Obama who did the blindsiding (see page 3 of that link). It was Obama who really took negotiations out of the main negotiating forum.
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Originally Posted by Bracko View Post

IIRC didn't Abbott vow to "smash the carbon tax" as his main goal in opposition? If so, why isn't the press hanging him out to dry on his lost promise.

it actually seems like the coalition write the headlines at the Australian. for example...

'Slipper elevated in "high farce" ' is the headline on the front page of the website. A link to the article page then heads with the true story "Peter Slipper has been formally elected Speaker of the House of Representatives". In the article is a quote by Christopher Pyne stating saying it was "high farce" that Labor had refused to nominate one of its own MPs to the post.
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Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

Thanks for the link. I guess as I have quite a bit of insight into this (I'm working on stuff for the UN for Durban now) it's been the norm for a while for India China and Brazil to form a bloc in negotiations. In fact there are a number of blocs of countries with shared interests in these negotiations (which really all boil down into developing countries wanting money from developed countries for as little commitment as possible). It was really Obama who did the blindsiding (see page 3 of that link). It was Obama who really took negotiations out of the main negotiating forum.

How does this make you feel claude?
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Hmmm - I'm pretty sure the British came up with this idea. Typical.

I think our speaker has to renounce all party ties and when he votes has to follow certain rules to ensure he's still partisan?
is it the same in Australia? Seems here the position of speaker has even less respect than the UK where Bercow has turned it into a joke (a real achievement given his predecessor)

Plus it's pretty rare for Westminster to be deadlocked cos we've got so many fickin' MP so their vote isn't so important.

Although I guess it's ironic that Australia has followed the UK in that the ruling party has put someone from the opposition into the position and that the candidate is not liked within their own party

Bercow was hated by the Cons and one of Labour's last acts of spite was to get him in the speaker's chair.

Slipper doesn't appear to popular with the Liberals.
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Well that's politics all over isn't Trist?

Small lobby groups try to gain as many advantages as possible and simultaneously try to make other people bear the costs and risks associated with them gaining said advantages.
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It was really Obama who did the blindsiding (see page 3 of that link). It was Obama who really took negotiations out of the main negotiating forum.

Yeah the superstar President arrives late to the summit, but like the White Knight just in time to save the day and the planet. China was never going to play along with that, and the Americans really didn’t have much substance to bring to the table.
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Yeah the superstar President arrives late to the summit, but like the White Knight just in time to save the day and the planet. China was never going to play along with that, and the Americans really didn’t have much substance to bring to the table.

How the fuck they didn't get Cap'n'Trade through with a Democrat President and Democrat majority control of both houses I'll never know. How Pelosi and Reid both kept their Leadership positions says a lot about that fucking country.

Gillard had far worse conditions to get a Climate Change Bill through but she managed it (and yes, I know she has NFI about Climate Change and Zero Care Factor, but surely that makes it more remarkable that she got something through).
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