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Qantas grounds entire fleet

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Balls Deep View Post

I read implicational tones in your post.

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without being privy to the details of the dispute/negotiations I make a call that this joyce guy is an utter tool, a move like that is an overreaction and achieves nothing, he has inconvenienced and disrupted the plans of many ordinary people leaving them high and dry, the brand of the company takes a massive hit-yet he he can sit back and count his money....fuckwit
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A bit late in the piece now, but this guy is live tweeting from the hearing...

http://twitter.com/#!/leigh_howard
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko View Post

the union hasn't changed their demands, so how do you come up with "more and more" and lets be frank here, who actually got a pay rise of less than 5% this financial year?

That's the problem - they haven't changed their demands, they're not being flexible. As I say, they are not negotiating, they are just demanding.

Anyone who expects to get everything they want out of a negotiation isn't living in reality.

It's sad to see people siding with the unions when really it's their refusal to back down on anything that has caused this mess.

I know tons of people who aren't getting pay rises, who haven't received bonuses etc etc. It's not like these people are being hard done by, pretty sure none of the Qantas/Jetstar crew are living on the streets through being unable to pay rent.

If they don't like the pay, they can go and get another job that pays more.
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More hypocrisy from the lefties in here.

They are critical of Joyce as he is Irish (and gay). Yet they pretend to be against racism.

They are critical of any move to send jobs offshore (they took our jerrrrrrrrbs), yet they try to claim they support the end of third world poverty.

They want to welcome in boat people and economic refugees, but F*CK those people if they want to do OUR jerbbbbs for a few bucks less in some asian country.

They are outraged that qantas has grounded their fleet and talk about the Australian brand and responsibility of qantas. They are then overjoyed that they can rub it in the face of qantas by flying virgin.

All we are seeing is union greed and they have tried to put qantas over the barrel. Qantas has fought back given that the fair work act and labor inaction leaves the with no other option.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

If they don't like the pay, they can go and get another job that pays more.

Fortunately, in Australia, that's not how the labour market has worked since the late 19th century.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nardo View Post

More hypocrisy from the lefties in here.

They are critical of Joyce as he is Irish (and gay). Yet they pretend to be against racism.

They are critical of any move to send jobs offshore (they took our jerrrrrrrrbs), yet they try to claim they support the end of third world poverty.

They want to welcome in boat people and economic refugees, but F*CK those people if they want to do OUR jerbbbbs for a few bucks less in some asian country.

They are outraged that qantas has grounded their fleet and talk about the Australian brand and responsibility of qantas. They are then overjoyed that they can rub it in the face of qantas by flying virgin.

All we are seeing is union greed and they have tried to put qantas over the barrel. Qantas has fought back given that the fair work act and labor inaction leaves the with no other option.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nardo View Post

More hypocrisy from the lefties in here.

They are critical of Joyce as he is Irish (and gay). Yet they pretend to be against racism.

They are critical of any move to send jobs offshore (they took our jerrrrrrrrbs), yet they try to claim they support the end of third world poverty.

They want to welcome in boat people and economic refugees, but F*CK those people if they want to do OUR jerbbbbs for a few bucks less in some asian country.

They are outraged that qantas has grounded their fleet and talk about the Australian brand and responsibility of qantas. They are then overjoyed that they can rub it in the face of qantas by flying virgin.

All we are seeing is union greed and they have tried to put qantas over the barrel. Qantas has fought back given that the fair work act and labor inaction leaves the with no other option.

Nobody was critical of Joyce for being gay and one bogan was critical of his heritage.

If you were able to jump on the back of a winged kangaroo and head to a third world country, you'd quickly realise a solution for third world poverty is a little more complicated and runs a little deeper than western businesses setting up operations there. In fact it has created more poverty in a fair few cases.

Comparing the boat people/refugee issue with moving jobs overseas is very stupid and not worthy of a response.

Of course people will talk about the responsibility of Qantas. They're an airline... airlines are sort of important.... people kinda need them to be functioning. Also, Virgin are going to space... who wouldn't support a company with ambitions to have a fleet of spaceships?!?!?!? In between organizing Anti-Israel demonstrations and quoting Chomsky in coffee shops whilst gazing at my Macbook Pro, I dream about space quite a lot.

The government would have acted if they were approached. This has been said/reported more than once already. Keep up, righty.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nardo View Post

More hypocrisy from the lefties in here.

They are critical of Joyce as he is Irish (and gay). Yet they pretend to be against racism.

They are critical of any move to send jobs offshore (they took our jerrrrrrrrbs), yet they try to claim they support the end of third world poverty.

They want to welcome in boat people and economic refugees, but F*CK those people if they want to do OUR jerbbbbs for a few bucks less in some asian country.

They are outraged that qantas has grounded their fleet and talk about the Australian brand and responsibility of qantas. They are then overjoyed that they can rub it in the face of qantas by flying virgin.

All we are seeing is union greed and they have tried to put qantas over the barrel. Qantas has fought back given that the fair work act and labor inaction leaves the with no other option.

You're a one trick pony. The only time you pop up around here is to blabber on with your anti-union driven agenda .

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Originally Posted by magictorch

I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate.

Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

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Originally Posted by THEHEATH View Post

You're a one trick pony. The only time you're around here is to blabber on with your anti-union driven agenda .

They don't pay him enough to have other opinions, imo.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Vote Quimby View Post

And then cancel them the night before. Long after Qantas has made alternative arrangements so as to limit the impact to their customers, yet the union expects everything to be back to normal.

Who cares? At least people have some time to arrange alternatives. You don't get the public or the government on side by fucking them over more than the unions have. Still think this will blow up in Joyce's face.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post


I appreciate that trying to explain these things to you is a bit like trying to explain them to a dining table, but you can't say I don't try.

This coming from a moderator... FMD this place has hit a new low.
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Comparing Abziee to a plank of wood is quite unnecessary and really unkind .



































To the wood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictorch

I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate.

Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Nardo View Post

More hypocrisy from the lefties in here.

They are critical of Joyce as he is Irish (and gay). Yet they pretend to be against racism.

They are critical of any move to send jobs offshore (they took our jerrrrrrrrbs), yet they try to claim they support the end of third world poverty.

They want to welcome in boat people and economic refugees, but F*CK those people if they want to do OUR jerbbbbs for a few bucks less in some asian country.

They are outraged that qantas has grounded their fleet and talk about the Australian brand and responsibility of qantas. They are then overjoyed that they can rub it in the face of qantas by flying virgin.

All we are seeing is union greed and they have tried to put qantas over the barrel. Qantas has fought back given that the fair work act and labor inaction leaves the with no other option.

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http://www.theage.com.au/business/gr...030-1mqjp.html

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The reality is Qantas's survivability and its brand are more complex than the union battles that the company has been embroiled in for the past nine months. It boils down to a few factors.

First, a decision by previous management not to invest in Boeing 777 aircraft - which are more fuel efficient than the many old planes Qantas continues to fly and which most of their competitors are now using.

This made Qantas less competitive at a time of rising fuel costs. To try to compensate for poor decision making, Joyce embarked on a strategy to reduce labour costs and cut international routes by Jetstar-ising the Qantas brand.
This can be readily seen by the number of Jetstar ads on TV, the number of new, more fuel-efficient planes allocated to Jetstar and the black art of accounting that doesn't make it clear whether Jetstar pays for all its own costs or some are carried by Qantas. Put simply, Jetstar has a more flexible and lower-cost workforce, so Qantas management is trying to attack the labour cost side of the business.

Nevertheless, while it is true the disputes have cost the airline $68 million as well as done untold damage to the brand as customers experienced some flight cancellations, Qantas was one of the few profitable airlines in the world and it was the only airline to boast an investment-grade credit rating.

Indeed, Qantas reported more than $500 million in profits in the latest financial year, which was far better than everyone had expected and 46 per cent higher than the previous year, despite the $224 million hurt caused by the many natural disasters, including the Queensland floods, the Japanese earthquake and the Chilean volcanic ash. If it hadn't been for this, its overall profit would have been a whopping $700 million-plus.

The reality is all its businesses are doing well, except the international airline business, which Joyce says is losing more than $200 million a year. It is this business that some argue is helping bankroll some of Jetstar's costs.

Summary : Joyce is a poor excuse for a CEO driven by a board with idealogical hatred of anything union related, and who are trying to divert their poor decision making and subversive plan to drive the brand offshore via Jetstar, on the unions.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Portal View Post

This coming from a moderator... FMD this place has hit a new low.

He's not a moderator any more. He retired to have the freedom to call retards retards.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post

http://www.theage.com.au/business/gr...030-1mqjp.html



Summary : Joyce is a poor excuse for a CEO driven by a board with idealogical hatred of anything union related, and who are trying to divert their poor decision making and subversive plan to drive the brand offshore via Jetstar, on the unions.

The Age completely overlooks one major issue - the support other airlines enjoy from their governments. I'll have to dig up the article but I htink that Singapore Airlines gets a massive amount of government support which enables it to have lower costs. A few other airlines in that area have similar arrangements.

Last edited by Dubz: 31-Oct-11 at 08:38am

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yes, Joyce is a bad CEO. He is responsible to to keep the shareprice high and promote the brand. He has overseen a collapse in shareprice and has massively damaged the brand.

Also, following on from the government support angle, you'd like to see Qantas re-nationalised so it can compete with the government owned Singapore and Cathay airlines?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post

yes, Joyce is a bad CEO. He is responsible to to keep the shareprice high and promote the brand. He has overseen a collapse in shareprice and has massively damaged the brand.

Also, following on from the government support angle, you'd like to see Qantas re-nationalised so it can compete with the government owned Singapore and Cathay airlines?

Tough question, I'm not an expert, but the article I read points out that Cathay and Singapore are able to be more competitive because of the government ownership.

I think at the moment airlines are in trouble because they're trying to offer lower and lower prices whilst costs go up (maintenance, salaries, fuel etc).

I'm not sure what the best outcome would be to be honest.
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There are other ways to slim your costs than locking out your employees.

It's a money grab and a short sighted solution.

There's an article on smh saying qantas is ripe for a takeover bid, which will be interesting if it eventuates
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Lets not forget Emirates and Etihad get their fuel for sweet FA.
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Joyce got what he wanted out of the lockout and Qantas will win the war with the unions. The Australian market is not competitive enough for Qantas to lose market share longer term and the while the 'brand' may be tarnished somewhat, people will still fly with them. You only have to look at banks, telco's and larger retailers to understand that Australians will keep going back to what they know despite poor levels of service and customer satisfaction. Joyce has strategically out-thought everyone at this stage and i imagine he is the toast of his Board and shareholders for the moment
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gReeD!















on all participants in this calamity, the unions, alan joyce, the lot


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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Tough question, I'm not an expert, but the article I read points out that Cathay and Singapore are able to be more competitive because of the government ownership.

I think at the moment airlines are in trouble because they're trying to offer lower and lower prices whilst costs go up (maintenance, salaries, fuel etc).

I'm not sure what the best outcome would be to be honest.

Because Consumers are under the expectation that everything should only ever get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper.

The Developed world thinks to pay $2 a book, $5 for an album, and $700 for a return flight to the UK is what they are owed.

It's pretty fucking disgusting if you ask me. Add to this that if anything the price for international has gone in the opposite trajectory to inflation over the past 20-30 years, yet people still expect cheaper and cheaper and cheaper.

---

Joyce should not have shut down, it was terrible PR. They didn't need to do it.

I think the Unions have a fair case for Australia's national carrier, an airline that uses its very Australianness as its point of difference, should maintain a very high percentage of their workforce employed here.

Having said that, as others have pointed out the Pilots do get renumerated fairly well. If they want their jobs to stay here perhaps they should be more willing to lower their salaries.

I still think Joyce handled this so fucking badly but he does have a point about being able to compete. I heard somewhere that Qantas spent something like $3-4bn on fuel last year. If that's true, then a $500m profit could turn into a $500m loss pretty easily and quickly.

And what's with the Irish racist jibes. Not fucking cool eh.

---

Having not flown Qantas internationally for about 10 years up until 2 years ago, I've actually flown them the last couple of trips to the UK in these past 2 years. They easily have the most helpful, friendly staff. So much so I actually wrote a letter commending the cabin crew from my last trip.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

Joyce got what he wanted out of the lockout

Well, he has succeeded in terminating the industrial action (although if the damage to QANTAS was really as bad as he has been making out, he could have done that via an application under section 423 of the Fair Work Act without having to ground the fleet).

Joyce presumably thinks that an arbitrated result will be better for QANTAS than for the unions and he is probably right - the things that the unions are holding out for mostly concern job security rather than pay and conditions, and industrial tribunals are usually loath to make awards which have the effect of telling the employer how to run its business.

The TWU have announced that they intend to appeal but you would have to say that their chances are slender - the decision to terminate rather than to suspend is a discretionary one which is hard to appeal. It does, however set an unfortunate precedent that QANTAS appears to have succeeded in placing pressure on FWA by saying that if there was a suspension, that would not get the planes back in the air - none of their witnesses was prepared to repeat that on oath, apparently.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Joyce should not have shut down, it was terrible PR. They didn't need to do it.

.

i think it was clever. For the last 12 months, the on and off industrial action made it look like Qantas was being unreliable.....the customers didn't know how bad the situation was and the unions kept under the radar. By instigating a lock-out, Joyce brought the Unions into the centre of the dispute, something that hadn't happened for the last 12 months and the blame has spread to the unions and even government. It was a smart ploy
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Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post

Well, he has succeeded in terminating the industrial action (although if the damage to QANTAS was really as bad as he has been making out, he could have done that via an application under section 423 of the Fair Work Act without having to ground the fleet).

Joyce presumably thinks that an arbitrated result will be better for QANTAS than for the unions and he is probably right - the things that the unions are holding out for mostly concern job security rather than pay and conditions, and industrial tribunals are usually loath to make awards which have the effect of telling the employer how to run its business.

The TWU have announced that they intend to appeal but you would have to say that their chances are slender - the decision to terminate rather than to suspend is a discretionary one which is hard to appeal. It does, however set an unfortunate precedent that QANTAS appears to have succeeded in placing pressure on FWA by saying that if there was a suspension, that would not get the planes back in the air - none of their witnesses was prepared to repeat that on oath, apparently.

Yep, that's what he wanted all along. It would be unprecedented for an arbitrator to do anything other than to find in Qantas' favour on most issues. Joyce gambled on Qantas' brand and while there has unquestionably been damage to the brand, Qantas management obviously don't think the damage is going to be as significant as giving in to the Unions demands would have been
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We'll see how this smart decision will be in the in the long term buffed. A lot of customers will lose their loyalty and not to mention staff moral would be at an all time low. They've left thousands of customers stranded overseas and interstate.

Why would anyone in their right mind book a Qantas flight in the near future? I wouldn't, and quiet frankly I don't think I'll ever fly with them again.
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We'll see how this smart decision will be in the in the long term buffed. A lot of customers will lose their loyalty and not to mention staff moral would be at an all time low. They've left thousands of customers stranded overseas and interstate.

Why would anyone in their right mind book a Qantas flight in the near future? I wouldn't, and quiet frankly I don't think I'll ever fly with them again.

what are their choices? If you fly to the U.S your choices are U.S airlines which are pretty affordable, but poor service. Internationally, the only decent carriers are Emirates and Singapore, but they are very expensive.

Personally, i have never flown Qantas internationally. To the U.S i have flown United and internationally, i have flown swissair and air france because they are cheap.

Qantas won't lose corporate customers and while they will lose a few retail customers initially, those customers will probably soon realise the alternatives aren't that great.

No different to Telstra. I would love to move away from Telstra, but where do i go? Vodaphone and Optus are rubbish. Same with so many other industries in Australia which are effectively monopolies
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^^ VA/etihad is a good option for europe, and can't fault the VA to LA service. I know Borghetti has been more focussed on trying to compete with qantas domestically, but this is a perfect opportunity for them to try their hand at offering some more international destinations. J'burg failed as they were ridiculously underpriced considering the 777 route limitations, but I'm sure they'd do well with some more destinations in Asia (shanghai, HK, Singapore etc).
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

i think it was clever. For the last 12 months, the on and off industrial action made it look like Qantas was being unreliable.....the customers didn't know how bad the situation was and the unions kept under the radar. By instigating a lock-out, Joyce brought the Unions into the centre of the dispute, something that hadn't happened for the last 12 months and the blame has spread to the unions and even government. It was a smart ploy

Maybe, maybe not. I think most people will have sided with the employees after the shut-down. And the fact is it wasn't necessary, it just made people angry at the brand and at the CEO.

I don't agree with the indefinite rolling threats of strike action by the unions because it affects more people than just Qantas workers and passengers, it also affects people who work in the travel and tourism industries.

It should have been pretty easy for both parties to negotiate their own private accord in the same vein as Labor did back in the day publicly, but both parties seem unwilling to listen to the legitimate concerns each other has. It was an entirely avoidable situation. And both parties need to stop playing fucking games and be willing to give leeway on the most important points they feel are absolutely necessary.

edit: at your government call. Fuck you are such an anti-Labor stooge at times. Why should the government get involved at all? If they had got involved you would be having a go at them for that.
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its not just available options, but generally speaking, most brand damage can be fixed in the medium to long term. especially, if as some people have mentioned, that Joyce was brought in to clean house and piss off (scapegoat).

the tele will run the irish equivalent of adios amigo on its front page.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post


I don't agree with the indefinite rolling threats of strike action by the unions because it affects more people than just Qantas workers and passengers, it also affects people who work in the travel and tourism industries.

It should have been pretty easy for both parties to negotiate their own private accord in the same vein as Labor did back in the day publicly, but both parties seem unwilling to listen to the legitimate concerns each other has. It was an entirely avoidable situation. And both parties need to stop playing fucking games and be willing to give leeway on the most important points they feel are absolutely necessary
.

Whats the incentive besides possible on going industrial action is there to bring qantas to the negotiating table? there isn't, its the only card the workers hold.
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Because Consumers are under the expectation that everything should only ever get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper.

The Developed world thinks to pay $2 a book, $5 for an album, and $700 for a return flight to the UK is what they are owed.

It's pretty fucking disgusting if you ask me. Add to this that if anything the price for international has gone in the opposite trajectory to inflation over the past 20-30 years, yet people still expect cheaper and cheaper and cheaper.

---

Joyce should not have shut down, it was terrible PR. They didn't need to do it.

I think the Unions have a fair case for Australia's national carrier, an airline that uses its very Australianness as its point of difference, should maintain a very high percentage of their workforce employed here.

Having said that, as others have pointed out the Pilots do get renumerated fairly well. If they want their jobs to stay here perhaps they should be more willing to lower their salaries.

I still think Joyce handled this so fucking badly but he does have a point about being able to compete. I heard somewhere that Qantas spent something like $3-4bn on fuel last year. If that's true, then a $500m profit could turn into a $500m loss pretty easily and quickly.

And what's with the Irish racist jibes. Not fucking cool eh.

---

Having not flown Qantas internationally for about 10 years up until 2 years ago, I've actually flown them the last couple of trips to the UK in these past 2 years. They easily have the most helpful, friendly staff. So much so I actually wrote a letter commending the cabin crew from my last trip.

Watch out - we're dangerously close to agreeing here!

I think that Joyce made a brave and calculated move. We probably won't be able to say it was good or bad for years.
Maybe in 10 years we'll be looking back and saying it was brilliant, or abysmal, who knows!

But I do think that people need to be ok with paying more for flights. I mean think about, you can get a flight (which is, remember, a trip on a plane, where you fly through the air and cover vast distances in a short time) to Melbourne for $100. That's the price of a video game. Or half of a decent meal.

I would think that airlines are the only industry that doesn't automatically pass on all extra costs to the consumer.
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Maybe, maybe not. I think most people will have sided with the employees after the shut-down. And the fact is it wasn't necessary, it just made people angry at the brand and at the CEO.

I don't agree with the indefinite rolling threats of strike action by the unions because it affects more people than just Qantas workers and passengers, it also affects people who work in the travel and tourism industries.

It should have been pretty easy for both parties to negotiate their own private accord in the same vein as Labor did back in the day publicly, but both parties seem unwilling to listen to the legitimate concerns each other has. It was an entirely avoidable situation. And both parties need to stop playing fucking games and be willing to give leeway on the most important points they feel are absolutely necessary.

edit: at your government call. Fuck you are such an anti-Labor stooge at times. Why should the government get involved at all? If they had got involved you would be having a go at them for that.

Are people angry with the brand and the CEO? Apart from those left stranded, and their families, who is really angry?

No-one in my office is banging on about it.

The Unions needed to learn they can't pretend to be negotiating when they're not giving any leeway, and they can't put Qantas over a barrel through the fear of strikes. Joyce has put paid to that, one would think.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Maybe, maybe not. I think most people will have sided with the employees after the shut-down. And the fact is it wasn't necessary, it just made people angry at the brand and at the CEO.

I don't agree with the indefinite rolling threats of strike action by the unions because it affects more people than just Qantas workers and passengers, it also affects people who work in the travel and tourism industries.

It should have been pretty easy for both parties to negotiate their own private accord in the same vein as Labor did back in the day publicly, but both parties seem unwilling to listen to the legitimate concerns each other has. It was an entirely avoidable situation. And both parties need to stop playing fucking games and be willing to give leeway on the most important points they feel are absolutely necessary.

edit: at your government call. Fuck you are such an anti-Labor stooge at times. Why should the government get involved at all? If they had got involved you would be having a go at them for that.

the only angry people are those that were stranded, but i imagine that of those, some will be pissed off, some will take it in their stride and some will understand the motives.

How was it avoidable? The unions wanted gurantees of job security. Who is going to give that in this day and age? Qantas said we can't give you that and the Unions weren't prepared to shift. Do you actually know what the dispute was about or are you just commetning from the cheap seats?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Abziie View Post

Whats the incentive besides possible on going industrial action is there to bring qantas to the negotiating table? there isn't, its the only card the workers hold.

An incentive would be that the pain now would be less than the the pain later.

Costs are too high.
Jobs will be lost.
No-one is getting anywhere near 5% (ok, except CEOs).

Qantas competes in a global economy. And it's time for the employees to accept these realities.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Having not flown Qantas internationally for about 10 years up until 2 years ago, I've actually flown them the last couple of trips to the UK in these past 2 years. They easily have the most helpful, friendly staff. So much so I actually wrote a letter commending the cabin crew from my last trip.

I've been doing some reading to try and grasp some of the wider issues at play here, one of the things I was taken aback by is the incredibly poor reputation Qantas staff (ie. Cabin crew etc. ) have for poor/rude service around the traps.

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I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate.

Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

But I do think that people need to be ok with paying more for flights. I mean think about, you can get a flight (which is, remember, a trip on a plane, where you fly through the air and cover vast distances in a short time) to Melbourne for $100. That's the price of a video game. Or half of a decent meal.

I would think that airlines are the only industry that doesn't automatically pass on all extra costs to the consumer.

they are in a no win situation. If travel costs go up, travel goes down, it's that simple. 85% of international travellers will only travel on the margins.
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Originally Posted by THEHEATH View Post

I've been doing some reading to try and grasp some of the wider issues at play here, one of the things I was taken aback by is the incredibly poor reputation Qantas staff (ie. Cabin crew etc. ) have for poor/rude service around the traps.

It's all relative though. I don't give a flying fuck about service. I board, i sit in my seat and i say thank you when i receive shitty tasting meal and rarely call the host. Other people call the attendants 25 times in the space of a flight.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Watch out - we're dangerously close to agreeing here!

I think that Joyce made a brave and calculated move. We probably won't be able to say it was good or bad for years.
Maybe in 10 years we'll be looking back and saying it was brilliant, or abysmal, who knows!

my guess is sooner. if their share price continues the way it does we'll see a takeover bid and splitting up of QANTAS in the next 12 months.

they must be an attractive opportunity to some other airlines or investment groups.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

It's all relative though. I don't give a flying fuck about service. I board, i sit in my seat and i say thank you when i receive shitty tasting meal and rarely call the host. Other people call the attendants 25 times in the space of a flight.

Thats fine on a domestic flight, but for a long haul to Europe for example, it's a different story IMO
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Originally Posted by CheelWinston View Post

God help him if he was from Pakistan or a woman or someshit

let alone some red haired woman thinking she could run a country

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Originally Posted by ianwil1976 View Post

I killed all my family because they wouldn't suck my dick.

Medium Rurrrr!

See my blog http://ecentreofexcellence.blogspot.com.au/
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for all those saying "the government should have acted sooner", when exactly was sooner....

http://www.smh.com.au/national/pm-cl...031-1mrca.html
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Portal View Post

Thats fine on a domestic flight, but for a long haul to Europe for example, it's a different story IMO

Is it? all I want when I go long haul is:

1. Not to be sat next to a fat/smelly person (which isn't in the control of the airline anyway)
2. No delays
3. Being given enough food and drink to keep me alive
4. Being left alone to watch films/sleep

I really don't care about service, as long as I get what I want, when I want it.
Often I'll simply walk down to the service area to get another drink because I don't mind stretching my legs and it's easier than waiting for someone to notice I've asked to be attended to.

The only time I've had a really bad flight was sat next to a fat git who oozed over onto my seat and had to get up every 20 minutes to go to the toilet. Which solidified my belief that overweight people should be forced to pay extra for larger seats.

As long as you don't get say next to the toilet, you're generally fine.

In the last 6 years I've flown on roughly 12 long haul flights (10+ hours) and with a variety of carriers (Thai Airways, Virgin, BA, Qantas, United, and a couple of others I think)
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I bet $50 that in 12 months Qantas will give up on international, jetstarise any remaining holiday overseas destinations and Qantas will just do its basic domestic business which is reliable, profitable and dull.

I don't think Jetstar Japan will be particularly sucessfull given the small size of the country and one of the best mid-range train systems in the world. I also don't think the new RedQ will work- wrong aircraft choice (narrow body and distance limitations) not to mention the opposition they have already experienced from SQ trying to set up the base in Singapore.

And when Virgin complete their full service/business type roll-out they will want a Jetstar budget subsidiary so will takeover Tiger.

/end predictions
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Buffed you should probably actually read what the Union was demanding before making comments.

http://www.twu.com.au/Home/Campaigns...TWU-v5-3-8-11/

Read it and make up you own mind.

Some highlights for you:

No. 25, which says an employee should be entitled to overtime if they work more than 7 consecutive days in a 10 day period. Wow this union sounds like a bunch of selfish fuckers demanding compensation for workers forced to work more than 5 days a week.

No. 14:3, don't turn the workforce into casuals and part-timers just to shirk on basic conditions to make more profit. OMG How can Qantas live with having to treat full-time employees like full-time employees? Fucking unions and their greedy demands.

Other provisions ask for a 5% pay rise, or the rate of the CPI increase if it is higher. With inflation running at around 3.5% - 4% right now they are effectively asking for a 1% pay rise. Fucking Unions trying to bankrupt the company!

And what's this crazy talk about employees having to undergo drug testing and have their ASIC card on hand to work in 13? Fucking unions trying to bankrupt QANTAS by acting in the interests of national security and public safety!

I could go on but essentially the majority of the action is to prevent QANTAS executives from moving the company to Asia and fucking off their Australian division entirely.

Not that you'll read this post or it because both are longer than 2 sentences and we all know you can read that long without having to post about how much better off we all were under Workchoices.
Broadband speeds will always be lower under a Coalition Government.

Last edited by Griggle: 31-Oct-11 at 01:38pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Watch out - we're dangerously close to agreeing here!

I think that Joyce made a brave and calculated move. We probably won't be able to say it was good or bad for years.
Maybe in 10 years we'll be looking back and saying it was brilliant, or abysmal, who knows!

But I do think that people need to be ok with paying more for flights. I mean think about, you can get a flight (which is, remember, a trip on a plane, where you fly through the air and cover vast distances in a short time) to Melbourne for $100. That's the price of a video game. Or half of a decent meal.

I would think that airlines are the only industry that doesn't automatically pass on all extra costs to the consumer.

I totally agree with the paying more bit. I especially wouldn't mind domestic air-flights, or intra-America and intra-European travel. Or for people to at least be cognisant of the fact that at some point the cheapness of things will smash up against finiteness of natural resources.

Actually I'd just settle for consumers in the developed world to start having realistic expectations: that as good as we have it now, unless we are prepared to modify both our expectations and our behaviour over the next 20-30 years in a whole range of consumption choices, then be honest with ourselves that we are going to leave a vastly transformed planet choking for our grand-kids and it won't be one they'll appreciate being born into.

I've gone heaps broad there but I honestly think that it's all interlinked: disposability, mass consumption of resource intensive goods and services, and the expectation that we are somehow owed ever cheaper things because we have managed as a species to completely dominate the planet.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle View Post

Buffed you should probably actually read what the Union was demanding before making comments.

http://www.twu.com.au/Home/Campaigns...TWU-v5-3-8-11/

......

get out of here with your facts.
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