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Body Composition and Diet thread, Episode 2: All bets are off (The Marshening)

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Yeah buddy.

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Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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'grats Ed.
"Words are bullshit. They are just useless sounds we make with our stupid mouths". Rafi - The league
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Now celebrate with some Ramen.

"Words are bullshit. They are just useless sounds we make with our stupid mouths". Rafi - The league
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Gumshara Saturday (Sunday not impossible) (and probably Monday )

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I hate it when you're right and I'm not.

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WD mate
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nice work edwardo

94.8kg this morning for me, back in the groove
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fuck yeah eddie!
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Eddie kicking all the goals.

Awesome.
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I'm having lunch at gumshara in honour of Eddie.
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But a Derp ain't one
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sup bitches. Giney 51kgs is scary town! Eat up woman. Eat well but just add in an extra meal each day.

been away but have maintained a good diet which is good. think I'd be around 62kgs. almost good enough for Bism. I've had some carbs but have been doing a lot of exercise testing including 3 sessions testing anaerobic threshold which was pretty painful without much glycogen. been super interesting though - I now have my VO2max value (measures aerobic capacity), maximum accumulated oxygen debt value (anaerobic capacity) plus a heap of other tests. it's pretty cool stuff.

also did skin fold tests - and whilst they're pretty inaccurate - three different tests gave me estimates around 17 - 20%. can't believe the difference in my skin folds from when I was a 19 year old fatty. serious changes. feels good mang.
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Nah, my 'Strong Junkie' look is a thing now.
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50 - 55 is known as the Goldilocks Zone, which is the habitable region for a Bism.
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Mischa what weight did you used to be?

Interesting photo for the people concerned with what the scale says:



Same person in both pics of course.
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She must be 7ft tall if that's 72kg on the right.
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No. Loopi showed me similar pics of herself at 64kg. Muscle is heavier than fat, lean muscle is better to have.

In other words the scale means nothing unless you're bulking. It's how you look and feel that is important.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict View Post

Interesting photo for the people concerned with what the scale says:

The Scales never lie to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Scales will always kick you the real deal. The Scales are the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Scales to be my greatest friend. They never freak out on me, never run. Derps may come and go, but 76 kilos after refeeding is always 76 kilos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict View Post

In other words the scale means nothing unless you're bulking.

That's up there with your theory of drug-fuelled weight-loss being good for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict View Post

No. Loopi showed me similar pics of herself at 64kg. Muscle is heavier than fat, lean muscle is better to have.

In other words the scale means nothing unless you're bulking. It's how you look and feel that is important.

So 1kg of muscle is heavier than 1kg of fat, gotcha
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

The Scales never lie to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Scales will always kick you the real deal. The Scales are the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Scales to be my greatest friend. They never freak out on me, never run. Derps may come and go, but 76 kilos after refeeding is always 76 kilos.



We certainly know Derp didn't get that joke because he obviously hasn't read Practical Programming.

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Originally Posted by CheelWinston View Post

Enlightened, morally strong sports fans follow the NRL.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

That's up there with your theory of drug-fuelled weight-loss being good for you.

How so? It's a clear indication that you're gaining muscle if the weight goes up but your appearance changes little. I should know, I put on around 7kgs before my physical appearance changed in any noticeable form.

I don't care about jokes or silly business, the evidence is there. Take it or leave it, doesn't bother me. All I know is that how much I weigh takes a back seat to how I look, how strong I am and how I feel.
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The numbers you should be concerned about when bulking are the numbers you put up in the gym.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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The pic that Anth posted is of my close friend Charlotte who is currently preparing to compete in a figure model competition.

The scales are never a real indication of body composition, as you all know. Hence why I'm trying to push a focus upon body fat and LBM % rather than scale weight; which is also why I cannot stand the daily kilogram check-ins that occur in this thread
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Why not have all of LBM, BF% and body weight in the same comparison?

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Originally Posted by Derelict View Post

It's the every part of existence part that I'm annoyed by. I talk about shit I like all the fucking time.

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Originally Posted by gotamangina View Post

It's like you're a philosopher.

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I Derp therefore I am.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gotamangina View Post

She must be 7ft tall if that's 72kg on the right.

She's about 5'8
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

The numbers you should be concerned about when bulking are the numbers you put up in the gym.

Why? Lifting heavier doesn't mean you'll stack on more mass, it just means you're getting stronger. Of course these two are not mutually exclusive but they are not completely linked.
Like I've said previously, go read kai greene's article on bodybuilding.com
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Quote:

Originally Posted by cuddlebear View Post

Why not have all of LBM, BF% and body weight in the same comparison?

Yes, that would be ideal
And much more realistic than weighing yourself on a daily (or every 2nd day) basis then proclaiming progress via the scales alone.
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^ In fairness, many of the people posting weight figures are simply trying to lose weight. Some are starting at obese levels and are getting down to healthy levels.

Much like your insane transformation, it would have been pretty pointless if you posted bf% and lean body mass figures through the majority of your journey.

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It's the every part of existence part that I'm annoyed by. I talk about shit I like all the fucking time.

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Originally Posted by gotamangina View Post

It's like you're a philosopher.

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Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post

I Derp therefore I am.

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Yeah but it's a good enough measure. I've lost 13kgs and around ~5%BF. I needed that scale to motivate me to keep going. Can't do a daily DEXA or skin fold. It's not ideal, but for some it works. and obviously for a lot in this thread, it has worked.

Weight is not the perfect measure of size/health the same way BMI isn't the best measure of fatness. But after doing a lot of exercise testing and a lot of time spent with a variety of body shapes and I think that unless you're a bodybuilder/super lean, then body weight is a good enough indicator of size/fat mass.

I think you're preaching to the converted Loopi. Most on here have done DEXA scans for that exact reason.
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@cuddlebear
As you mentioned, I've been there, so I know what it was like to want to make progress. But I didn't do this by constantly weighing myself and hoping it would go down; I did it by taking monthly measurements around my hips, waist, bust, thighs etc., and taking photos to actually SEE the visual changes. My scale weight often plateaued, but as long as my measurements reduced, I was happy.

Mischa - I highly disagree re: weight being a good indicator of fat mass. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=s...w=1366&bih=653

No one carries a set of scales around and measures you when they see you. Nor do photos of models have their weight listed beneath their pictures. It's all about how you look.
I believe that focussing on scale weight only leads to obsession, poor eating habits and cyclical dieting that is not sustainable.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Derelict View Post

Why? Lifting heavier doesn't mean you'll stack on more mass, it just means you're getting stronger. Of course these two are not mutually exclusive but they are not completely linked.
Like I've said previously, go read kai greene's article on bodybuilding.com


Why would you bulk if not to get stronger?
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I've just spent a week working with the general population and 90% of the time - if she's female, 170cm and 90kgs: she's fat, if she's female 165cm and 60kg she's slim. it doesn't indicate body comp, but as a basic general measure, it's ok.

horses for courses. if measurements work: great, if scales work: great. if fitting into a smaller pair of jeans is your measure: great.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by loopi View Post

The scales are never a real indication of body composition, as you all know. Hence why I'm trying to push a focus upon body fat and LBM % rather than scale weight; which is also why I cannot stand the daily kilogram check-ins that occur in this thread

If I could get a weekly dexascan, I would. I can't, so instead I track my weight and assume that my LBM is staying reasonably constant.

And posting "18.2% body fat this morning (assuming constant LBM)" is a little bit wordy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by loopi View Post

I believe that focussing on scale weight only leads to obsession, poor eating habits and cyclical dieting that is not sustainable.

Like cut/bulk or recomp cycles?

I see where you're coming from Loopi, but I still think that derp is off the mark.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by loopi View Post

@cuddlebear
As you mentioned, I've been there, so I know what it was like to want to make progress. But I didn't do this by constantly weighing myself and hoping it would go down; I did it by taking monthly measurements around my hips, waist, bust, thighs etc., and taking photos to actually SEE the visual changes. My scale weight often plateaued, but as long as my measurements reduced, I was happy.

Mischa - I highly disagree re: weight being a good indicator of fat mass. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=s...w=1366&bih=653

No one carries a set of scales around and measures you when they see you. Nor do photos of models have their weight listed beneath their pictures. It's all about how you look.
I believe that focussing on scale weight only leads to obsession, poor eating habits and cyclical dieting that is not sustainable.

weight is a reasonable indictor of where you are at if you are employing a calorific deficit diet plus cardio for weight loss. Dont disagree with you about visual changes but come on only full retards measure all their bits
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this thread was my last safe haven for full retard posting
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I too work with the general population, and have found that the people who have the most difficulties making progress are those who focus on scale weight. They used to go through huge caloric deficits, detox diets, RFL, etc., and excessive exercise just to achieve a low scale result. But what for? A lower number on the scale at the cost of good nutrition and respect for their bodies? Its a fascinating cycle that needs to be stopped immediately.

Conversely, clients who have embraced measurements-based results manage to change their lifestyle to incorporate healthy eating, no use of diets, and have sustained their results permanently.

Whether or not it's a case of horses for courses, being in the fitness industry has taught me that the most valuable thing to teach is sustainable health and wellbeing
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Quote:

Originally Posted by airconteka View Post

weight is a reasonable indictor of where you are at if you are employing a calorific deficit diet plus cardio for weight loss. Dont disagree with you about visual changes but come on only full retards measure all their bits

Yeah I agree to an extent, but some of the posts in here are done on a daily or tri-weekly basis. Only "retards" would be unable to comprehend that weight can fluctuate due to liquids, sodium levels, creatine use, hormonal cycles, etc.
And yes, measuring your bits is more accurate than weight. When you look through past photos of yourself, do you say "oh here I think I weigh 80kg"? Or do you say "geez, I looked great in this pic, I'd like to look like this again"

Damn you Anthony, I intentionally don't post in this thread for a reason!!

Sorry folks, this is just my personal opinion
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Quote:

Originally Posted by loopi View Post

Yeah I agree to an extent, but some of the posts in here are done on a daily or tri-weekly basis. Only "retards" would be unable to comprehend that weight can fluctuate due to liquids, sodium levels, creatine use, hormonal cycles, etc.

I actually find that when I'm in ketosis there's very little fluctuation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by loopi View Post

And yes, measuring your bits is more accurate than weight. When you look through past photos of yourself, do you say "oh here I think I weigh 80kg"? Or do you say "geez, I looked great in this pic, I'd like to look like this again"

For me, weight is a measure of progress and a tangible end goal. It's not a number that I base my happiness on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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I wouldn't listen to this loopi chick, she used to be fat.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bism View Post

I wouldn't listen to this loopi chick, she used to be fat.

You can trust this guy, fat people are always honest. Except about food.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Before clocks people used to say it was night time when the sun went down
then people invented clocks and said it was night time at 6pm because that was generally what time it got dark
then they brought in daylight savings
clock said it was night, sun said it was day
we all got confused
so we all just used our clocks because it was too much effort to follow what the sun was doing

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I'm currently in the obese capital of Australia. it's pretty awesome. the KFC here is Australia's most profitable. There are more fast food places than restaurants. mmm chronic disease goodness.
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Lol the difference between your analogy and body composition is that people aren't undertaking stupid diets in order to make progress on scales

My frustration about this stems from being a PT who has to spend a lot of time repairing people's nutrition because they've been taught by others that scale weight is more valuable than proper nutrition
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to be fair to Sir Lyle McDonald, the diet isn't that stupid. it in fact involves eating shitloads of veges and protein and makes you conscious of the importance of good carbs in moderation. it acknowledges it's not long-term, and provides a healthy maintenance diet to follow afterwards.

If I couldn't grate cheese on my abs, I probably wouldn't be so defensive about the diet

mmm cheese
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Everyone post revealing photos of their significant others' or girls they know so we can all argue over something tangible pls

cheers

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Life trainwreck stories, bewbs, mod angering drug implicated posts and 2fast2furious only.

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that’s terrible spastic
also I would imagine a little disheartening that he has never attempted to drug rape you?

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Sorry Chrissie I just saw that pic of Charlotte and it reminded me of our conversation last Friday.

How exactly am I off the mark Astro? If I took photos of myself now at 72kg I wouldn't look as good as I did the last time I was at 72kg because I've lost muscle mass.
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It's not all about you, Derp.
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Nice counter argument there. I've got nothing.
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