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Richard Branson: "War on drugs a failure, decriminalise now"

View Poll Results: Is Cannabis a safe drug?
Yes. Legalise it 8 0.00%
Yes but don't legalise it 1 0.00%
In moderation 5 0.00%
Only when drinking beer 0 0%
Nope 2 0.00%
Not really. I got Schizophrenia 1 0.00%
should Dero13 not start threads 5000001 100.00%
Voters: 5000018. You may not vote on this poll

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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

again.........what stronger message do you need that something is potentially bad for you than making it illegal? why is it illegal to drive at 170km/h? why is it illegal to punch someone in the face? why is it illegal to buy alcohol under the age of 18?

But do we not also have health authorities recommend against drinking more than 2 standard drinks on average per day. Or against binge drinking. Or drinking while pregnant?

Why can we not have the same authorities recommend not using MDMA in hot environments, advise against drinking more than 600ml of water an hour, recommend a 3 week gap between use?

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Originally Posted by B_e_de View Post

It's the same as going out on a busy street and looking at the people around you, most of them are fgts.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by YossarianIsSane View Post

But do we not also have health authorities recommend against drinking more than 2 standard drinks on average per day. Or against binge drinking. Or drinking while pregnant?

Why can we not have the same authorities recommend not using MDMA in hot environments, advise against drinking more than 600ml of water an hour, recommend a 3 week gap between use?

because the authorities don't want to be seen to be encouraging an illegal activity in any way. if you want education, look it up on the internet. complaining of a lack of education is no excuse in 2012.......if you really want to be educated, you have a mutlitude of resources to be able to find the info
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

because the authorities don't want to be seen to be encouraging an illegal activity in any way. if you want education, look it up on the internet. complaining of a lack of education is no excuse in 2012.......if you really want to be educated, you have a mutlitude of resources to be able to find the info

once again buffed that's a fairly stupid comment.

If they didn't teach sex education in schools, do you think kids would seek out their own education before they had sex?

drug users aren't complaining about a lack of education, it's other people saying kids aren't armed with education to make informed choices. All they're told is that "drugs are bad mmmkay"...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

the fact that drug use and supply is legislated as an illegal activity is harm minimisation. Legislators are saying (to those who are not too stupid to ignore it) that we think drug use is a risky and dangerous activity, therefore we have made it illegal.

That is not why most drugs are illegal. Most drugs are illegal because politicians and legislators are spiteful arseholes who are on a moral crusade and don't want people to do things they don't like for whatever moral reason.

If you read the history of many drug bans, from MDMA to Marijuana and every Psychedelic inbetween, most drugs were banned AGAINST the wishes of the scientific and medicinal community and against their own laws which state that only drugs of high addiction and no medicinal value can be outright restricted.
The War on Drugs was started based on a report that pushed for the legalization of Marijuana, not an outright war against it. Nixon took that report, dismissed it and did what he wanted to do.

Many times Doctors, Scientists and Therapists have taken Governments to court and won in the fight to make certain substances legal, only for the Governments to totally ignore their own courts. (MDMA is famous for this. if memory serves me correctly MDMA went through 3 high court battles in the US, each time the Courts ruled that it was illegal to schedule MDMA restricted as it was safe, non-addictive and had wide medicinal use, the DEA ignored the courts rulings every time)

Do not try take any moral high ground that "Duuur Drugs are illegal cause they are risky and bad huuuur" when almost every legitimate study out there into the issue says the exact opposite of what you are preaching. Most Drugs are illegal because Politicians and Conservatives have vested interests, moral or financial for keeping them illegal.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

That is not why most drugs are illegal. Most drugs are illegal because politicians and legislators are spiteful arseholes who are on a moral crusade and don't want people to do things they don't like for whatever moral reason.

If you read the history of many drug bans, from MDMA to Marijuana and every Psychedelic inbetween, most drugs were banned AGAINST the wishes of the scientific and medicinal community and against their own laws which state that only drugs of high addiction and no medicinal value can be outright restricted.
The War on Drugs was started based on a report that pushed for the legalization of Marijuana, not an outright war against it. Nixon took that report, dismissed it and did what he wanted to do.

Many times Doctors, Scientists and Therapists have taken Governments to court and won in the fight to make certain substances legal, only for the Governments to totally ignore their own courts. (MDMA is famous for this. if memory serves me correctly MDMA went through 3 high court battles in the US, each time the Courts ruled that it was illegal to schedule MDMA restricted as it was safe, non-addictive and had wide medicinal use, the DEA ignored the courts rulings every time)

Do not try take any moral high ground that "Duuur Drugs are illegal cause they are risky and bad huuuur" when almost every legitimate study out there into the issue says the exact opposite of what you are preaching. Most Drugs are illegal because Politicians and Conservatives have vested interests, moral or financial for keeping them illegal.

Scheduled at a lower level to allow medical use and research is not 'legal' in the sense of this argument. But I agree with everything else you've said.

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Originally Posted by B_e_de View Post

It's the same as going out on a busy street and looking at the people around you, most of them are fgts.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

That is not why most drugs are illegal. Most drugs are illegal because politicians and legislators are spiteful arseholes who are on a moral crusade and don't want people to do things they don't like for whatever moral reason.

If you read the history of many drug bans, from MDMA to Marijuana and every Psychedelic inbetween, most drugs were banned AGAINST the wishes of the scientific and medicinal community and against their own laws which state that only drugs of high addiction and no medicinal value can be outright restricted.
The War on Drugs was started based on a report that pushed for the legalization of Marijuana, not an outright war against it. Nixon took that report, dismissed it and did what he wanted to do.

Many times Doctors, Scientists and Therapists have taken Governments to court and won in the fight to make certain substances legal, only for the Governments to totally ignore their own courts. (MDMA is famous for this. if memory serves me correctly MDMA went through 3 high court battles in the US, each time the Courts ruled that it was illegal to schedule MDMA restricted as it was safe, non-addictive and had wide medicinal use, the DEA ignored the courts rulings every time)

Do not try take any moral high ground that "Duuur Drugs are illegal cause they are risky and bad huuuur" when almost every legitimate study out there into the issue says the exact opposite of what you are preaching. Most Drugs are illegal because Politicians and Conservatives have vested interests, moral or financial for keeping them illegal.

i'm happy for drugs to be made legal. Given that they are not harmful, we should also probably recommend a pill, a joint and a hit of smack as part of a balanced daily diet.
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quality slippery slope there buffed

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The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.

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Yeah but Colin Closet asserts that if we allow same-sex couples to marry, then the next thing we know we'll be allowing people to marry their parents, their cars and even monkeys.

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how can you engage with someone who refuses to acknowledge that drugs are risky or dangerous? you can debate the issue around legalisation, but i'm not going to engage with someone who has his head up his arse.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

how can you engage with someone who refuses to acknowledge that drugs are risky or dangerous? you can debate the issue around legalisation, but i'm not going to engage with someone who has his head up his arse.


who's not acknowledging that there's risks invovled, I think the whole idea of harm minisation makes it pretty clear that these things can harm you. Just like a huge list of other activites people do for a variety of reasons.

How about you pull your head out of your arse and get past the whole 'drugs are bad, let's ban them all cause that'll stop people killing themselves' idea.
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The ideaology of 'drugs are bad so people shouldn't take them' is simply a way of sticking your head in the sand and ignoring reality.

A considerable amount of people in society have taken drugs since the beginning of time, and will continue to do so. History shows us this.

They will not stop just because their governent says: "You can't do this because If you do you will go to jail". History also shows us this.

Whether or not you or I think drugs are incredbily harmful is not the point. The point is people take drugs all the time regardless. They have ample access to them because due to the high demand.

This is a huge problem that has shown little or no signs of slowing down when authorities work against this problem trying to stamp it out with force. IMO we need to work with this problem instead of against it, take responsibilty for it and try different approaches than an unwinnable war.

Just saying "well if people didn't do it then there would be no problem" is a cop out. Wait until a friend or a family member develops an addiction and see how you feel then.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

how can you engage with someone who refuses to acknowledge that drugs are risky or dangerous? you can debate the issue around legalisation, but i'm not going to engage with someone who has his head up his arse.

Oh, the irony.

Everything we do in our lives has an element of risk to it. Even eating. If someone chooses to predominantly eat fast or processed food over un-processed food they increase their chances of getting a whole range of preventable diseases. No doubt you'd argue that eating is a necessity, and I'd agree, but eating crappy, dangerous-to-one's-health food isn't a necessity, it's a choice. But it isn't illegal. Why isn't it illegal when we know that eating shit food has direct health consequences that can be lethal?

There are far more alcohol related deaths annually compared to cannabis and MDMA yet we don't make alcohol illegal. Why do we not make alcohol illegal when we know it has the potential to cause short-, mid-, and long-term fatalities?

And before you say, "those are stupid arguments," just remember they are YOUR arguments not mine.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by YossarianIsSane View Post

Scheduled at a lower level to allow medical use and research is not 'legal' in the sense of this argument. But I agree with everything else you've said.

MDMA by US law is supposed to be scheduled as a prescription drug. It's not only illegal in the US, but has harsher penalties than Heroin.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

MDMA by US law is supposed to be scheduled as a prescription drug. It's not only illegal in the US, but has harsher penalties than Heroin.

I know that. My point still stands.

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Originally Posted by B_e_de View Post

It's the same as going out on a busy street and looking at the people around you, most of them are fgts.

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In other news, Tongan man dies after a 204kg cocaine binge at sea.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/cocaine-...116-29h6g.html
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Originally Posted by Fewsion View Post

In other news, Tongan man dies after a 204kg cocaine binge at sea.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/cocaine-...116-29h6g.html

The gay cruise ship industry has really gone overboard (lol) this time


street value of $116m, the GST on that alone would be 11 mil!
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nothing really new here, but interesting that the mainstream media is running this as a front page story

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HAVE you seen Molly? She makes me want to dance. The posters plastered on walls around Melbourne are often met with a nudge and a wink by club goers. "Molly" is the slang term for MDMA, better known as ecstasy. And it makes a great number of Australians want to get on the dance floor.

Taken mainly as a party drug, ecstasy causes the user to be more energetic and alert. It lowers aggression and anxiety, leads to euphoria and creates increased empathy and a sense of intimacy with others. According to a 2010 government report, one in 10 Australians over age 14 has used it, the highest per capita rate in the world.

At first glance, this seems alarming – hundreds of thousands of people using a drug that carries the same classification as heroin or crystal meth. But is this alarm warranted? If ecstasy were a legal and available alternative to alcohol, would the social and moral and health consequences be cause for concern?


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/da...#ixzz2E1xQZPYC

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Pretty glad I'm not a 'clubber' any more if you have to go around asking people 'have you seen molly'
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kiss kiss molly's lips
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Quote:

Originally Posted by BumblingBee View Post

kiss kiss molly's lips

[note for AFP /journalists: that means take ecstasy]

oh shit people will think my avatar means I am a dealer
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Originally Posted by CheelWinston View Post

[note for AFP /journalists: that means take ecstasy]

oh shit people will think my avatar means I am a dealer

We all know what 'white poodle' means.

'Hey man take this white poodle for a walk'.

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Originally Posted by Davomaxi View Post

Just saying "well if people didn't do it then there would be no problem" is a cop out. Wait until a friend or a family member develops an addiction and see how you feel then.

One of my best mates was a cocaine addict. I tried repeatedly to get him to seek help to no avail. After so many years of putting up with his selfish habitual behaviour and the lying and bullshit, i ditched him and so did most of his other friends. He now lives at home with his parents at age 41 with no friends and even less prospects. I care what happens to him as a former friend, but i am not interested in having any sort of relationship with him now
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

One of my best mates was a cocaine addict. I tried repeatedly to get him to seek help to no avail. After so many years of putting up with his selfish habitual behaviour and the lying and bullshit, i ditched him and so did most of his other friends. He now lives at home with his parents at age 41 with no friends and even less prospects. I care what happens to him as a former friend, but i am not interested in having any sort of relationship with him now

Clearly it's illegality was no impediment.
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Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

Clearly it's illegality was no impediment.

Probably made it harder to source and more expensive. But you knew that.
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'This Is Working': Portugal, 12 Years after Decriminalizing Drugs

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Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Probably made it harder to source and more expensive. But you knew that.

And yet Buffed's mate was still an addict. Doesn't say much for prohibition.
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meanwhile, in sunny Queensland we're heading backwards

opinion piece on proposed new drugs laws

so the governement is sick of playing catch up and banning each new drug as it comes out, so they're going to get one step ahead by banning anything that's chemically similar to an illegal drug, or anything that's sold with the intention of producing effects similar to an illegal drug.

As a chemist I'm lolling at the idea of banning anything chemically similar, a few examples of the lunacy that would entail in the above article. the more annoying thing is the government is doing it's usual head-up-arse thing and ignoring everyone, including the Qld Law Society, telling them the proposed laws are crap and will likely be misused.
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Last edited by liberabit: 02-Apr-13 at 01:27pm

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Isn't that the simple truth. See the results in colorado and LA
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Comment: The Home Office admits it has no idea if the war on drugs is working
By Ian Dunt Friday, 10 January 2014 12:24 PM
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