The Main Room

Poll: Your thoughts on Boat People

View Poll Results: Do you care about Boat People.
Yes, it's an issue. I prefer Labor Party. 7 14.29%
No, couldn't care less. I prefer Labor Party. 7 14.29%
Yes, it's an issue. I prefer Coalition. 4 8.16%
No, couldn't care less. I prefer Coalition. 1 2.04%
"boat people" are a non-issue overblown by xenophobic bullshit 30 61.22%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
  Tools
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabman View Post

What you were actually saying is they're superstitious murderers.

Yes, I am.

A country that a large portion of its populace burns women alive in the streets and is a common occurrence, is filled with superstitious murderers. Does that mean all PNG'ians are murderers? Nope. But its a big enough issue that I sure as fuck wouldn't send people living there, this is the shit Refugees are trying to escape.

(Taken in provincial capital)


Quote:

I'd add that the Greens Policy while arguably more humane doesn't seem like it would stop people dying at sea. Not until there comes a time when there is a complete political re-alignment in asylum seekers' countries of origin leading to people feeling that they are safe and secure.

All Australia's policy does is push people to drown in the Mediterranean instead.
The Greens policy is a regional solution, Refugees don't need to get on the boats because they are given good opportunities for life in transit countries.

Quote:

Australia's immigration intake would disprove the racist charge.

It really doesn't.
From news comment section
"Haha I am loving this so much, these dirty sand ******s are escaping one of the most impoverished regions on earth, only to arrive in Australia and be relocated to one of the most violent and impoverished regions on earth where they are now stuck with actual ******s! They still practice witch burning in their capital city on the regular! This is awesome!"

Quote:

but saying that every MP in parliament (apart from the Greens of course) doesn't care, and are just a bunch of ambitious robots is just a load of bull dangar.

Oh please, we are putting children in prisons, breaking international law, sending refugees to countries where they could be burned alive.
We don't really see a issue with our own foreign policy that causes much of this shit to begin with following word for word US Wilsonian and Truman doctrine.
The Politicians through their actions alone show they don't actually give a fuck about people drowning at sea and only see it as political scoring points.

Quote:

You only need to look at Australia to see that it is one of the most successful multicultural, multi-ethnic countries in the history of history.

And? Doesn't stop the fact that much of our media and politics is about WHITE COUNTRIES FOR WHITES! This is just the White Australia bullshit in new clothes. Next you will be telling me that Andrew Bolt and Ackerman and News Corp aren't actual racists and just care about the plight of poor people on boats. The Xenophobia card essentially alone wins elections, if you don't take that as a sign that Racism and Xenophobia aren't huge issues in Australia, then what will make it an issue?
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
Geezah +

Raaaaaaaaaaaaarrghh

Geezah's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,825
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,176 Posts
Posts
12,935
It's hard to argue with someone who points to one thing out of many different things and says, see that one thing is every thing.

I can do that too: Look there's a Rabbitohs supporter, that proves all supporters go for the Rabbitohs.
Avatar artist: Dain Fagerholm
crabman +

I might be a **** but I'm not a fucking ****.

crabman's Avatar
Joined
Oct '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 15,417
Thanked 8,299 Times in 3,650 Posts
Posts
14,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

A country that a large portion of its populace burns women alive in the streets and is a common occurrence, is filled with superstitious murderers. Does that mean all PNG'ians are murderers? Nope. But its a big enough issue that I sure as fuck wouldn't send people living there, this is the shit Refugees are trying to escape.

Prove that with facts.

Being sensationalist doesn't help your argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

And? Doesn't stop the fact that much of our media and politics is about WHITE COUNTRIES FOR WHITES! This is just the White Australia bullshit in new clothes.

It's not just white people who support stopping the boats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

How about you people actually learn a little thing called having a fucking conscious and not being heartless sociopath you piece of shit.

الاستماع إلى ... ال التنفس المدينة.

اسم اللعبة هو ضوء يعمل.

Last edited by crabman: 20-Jul-13 at 01:48pm

phoneyhuh +

3o~

phoneyhuh's Avatar
Joined
Jul '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 16
Thanked 208 Times in 131 Posts
Posts
8,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

I personally can't wait till the hundreds of millions if not billions of climate refugees start flooding everywhere.

Looking forward to a humanitarian disaster that will potentially dwarf the second world war, outraged over the resettlement of several thousand people to a neighboring nation.

Thanks for the laughs.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 20-Jul-13 at 01:53pm

Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

It's hard to argue with someone who points to one thing out of many different things and says, see that one thing is every thing.

I can do that too: Look there's a Rabbitohs supporter, that proves all supporters go for the Rabbitohs.

Port Morseby is one of the most violent places on earth and has Green Zones just like Iraq. As soon as you hit rural areas, Cannibalism and Witch burning become common place.

I am not saying that all PNG'ers are terrible people, but the country is a terrible country and in some ways, worse than the countries are fleeing to begin with.
Do you want me to start posting the numerous of photos I have of murdered children being eaten by the entire village in PNG?
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Looking forward to a massive humanitarian disaster. Outraged over the transfer of several thousand people to a neighboring nation.

Yeah I can't wait for it because you retards will suddenly realize that you're stupid "STOP DA BOATS" shit is actually a non-fucking issue at the moment and that your hypocritical stances, will come back and bite us in the arse 10,000 fold in the future.

The hypocrisy of us first worlders is outrageous. Refugees are fleeing countries you couldn't even begin to imagine how terrible they are, these people are literally fleeing for their lives and for the lives of their families and yet nobody seems to get the actual reality of that.
The only way Australians could understand is if it happened to us but it never has. We are like Americans, so isolated from the reality of the rest of the world that we can't actually understand what is happening.

We praise policies and live out a standard of living that creates these situations in the developing world to begin with and then we cry when they "Drown in the sea" fleeing from our fucking Drones flattening entire towns and killing thousands of people, or sanctions that starve hundreds of thousands of people to death because they won't give us their oil for essentially free. oh fucking please, OH FUCKING PLEASE.

Quote:

Prove that with facts.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/papua-new-guinea

PNG is basically lawless. It has one of the highest murder and rape rates in the world, one of the highest amounts of cannibalism in the world, the Police and Army are often killing each other, mass looting and riots are common, the capital city has green zones that people are still regularly killed in and you are likely to be killed if you go out of, not to mention the abject poverty.
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together

Last edited by Kiron: 20-Jul-13 at 02:04pm

CircusMidget +

De plane! De plane!

CircusMidget's Avatar
Joined
Jan '09
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 301
Thanked 1,386 Times in 652 Posts
Posts
4,093

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

Do you want me to start posting the numerous of photos I have of murdered children being eaten by the entire village in PNG?

Australia has plenty of murderers and rapists. Probably more than PNG
crabman +

I might be a **** but I'm not a fucking ****.

crabman's Avatar
Joined
Oct '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 15,417
Thanked 8,299 Times in 3,650 Posts
Posts
14,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

I am not saying that all PNG'ers are terrible people

Just a large portion of them.

That's not facts, it's a page with a bunch of reports. You may as well have just posted www.google.com.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

How about you people actually learn a little thing called having a fucking conscious and not being heartless sociopath you piece of shit.

الاستماع إلى ... ال التنفس المدينة.

اسم اللعبة هو ضوء يعمل.
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabman View Post

Just a large portion of them.



That's not facts, it's a page with a bunch of reports. You may as well have just posted www.google.com.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004....davidfickling

Port Moresby, is literally the worst place on earth.
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by CircusMidget View Post

Australia has plenty of murderers and rapists. Probably more than PNG

No, No it doesn't.

PNG is at the rock bottom of essentially all life indicators with the highest crime rates in the world. The only countries comparable are places like Somalia and Haiti.
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
IHAVENEWLEGS +

Registered User

IHAVENEWLEGS's Avatar
Joined
Sep '11
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,463
Thanked 6,062 Times in 3,521 Posts
Posts
14,732
With my last work role we had started an office working out of port moresby and I can tell you it is not a safe place. In the space of one week we had 3 separate car jacking attempts made against our staff who were there setting it up, staff had to have gaurds with them at all times and forget about going out at night.

Also with the nature of work I saw first hand the levels of corruption in PNG and it is out of control. The place is fucked.
mogmac +

Registered User

mogmac's Avatar
Joined
May '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 774
Thanked 116 Times in 63 Posts
Posts
1,692

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapout View Post

Why? Genuinely curious, to me it's seems a pretty measured response. PNG isn't a war torn country and it's removing the incentive to make the journey by boat, I'm happy to have my mind changed but it seems like a decent solution to me.

I might be a bit late to this conversation, seems like people have been talking through it already, but nonetheless I think this policy is inhumane on a number of levels

1. It is unfair to asylum seekers/ refugees because PNG simply doesnt have the infrastructure that would allow asylum seekers to meet their basic rights, let alone recover from the trauma of conflict, threat of violence and flight. Even if we are to assume that resettlement in PNG will mean some sort of allowance from the aus government, schools, hospitals and living conditions are below basic standards. We have the ability to provide good services to asylum seekers and refugees, and we should. And, although Papua isnt war torn, it isnt a safe country (http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-c...pua_New_Guinea). 5 days ago armed soldiers attacked a hospital (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/444985/...t-png-hospital) and earlier this year four chinese were killed (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/444985/...t-png-hospital). I am concerned that asylum seekers could become victims of xenophobic violence, not to mention discrimination and flat out disadvantage (the australian asylum support system struggles as it is to provide basic language services to the diversity of people it encouters). We can provide a safe conditions and better services and we should. This is not to say that PNG is an irredeemable shithole, Im certain there are many fantastic things full of mostly wonderful people, but it is a highly inappropriate place for asylum seekers.

2. It is unfair to the people of PNG. PNG is already an incredibly poor and the resettling of asylum seekers will further burden the job markets, education, hospitals and other infra/services. Im not sure what type of support the aussie government will provide to PNG, but i think the increased competition to what the limited things available will be inevitable, especially as the infrastructure that exists is so limited throughout the country.

3, It violates our obligations under the refugee convention, which is bad for two reasons. Our obligations to international laws and human rights frameworks should be treated with much more respect and regard if we are to build on these 'orderly international systems' rudd professes high regard for. These frameworks outline basic levels of treatment people can expect from each other, respecting these standards role models good behavior and helps to materialise international standards of treatment. Its not the only thing, but its certainly an important part in helping to address causes of flight, violations of people's rights (dont give me that economic migrant shit unless you have more compelling evidence than this http://theconversation.com/factcheck...migrants-15601)

4. It sends a bad message to regional and international countries about the treatment of asylum seekers and refugees. We do no good for asylum seekers/refugees globally by treating them inhumanely ourselves. We should remember that most asylum seekers and refugees are not in Australia or coming to Australia, they are in and tend to stay in countries neighboring where they flee. While where they are treated like shit and have generally have no access the their basic rights. Similarly to above, we should be role modeling good behavior and encouraging others to do the same.

my 2 c, sorry for typos
Geezah +

Raaaaaaaaaaaaarrghh

Geezah's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,825
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,176 Posts
Posts
12,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

Port Morseby is one of the most violent places on earth and has Green Zones just like Iraq. As soon as you hit rural areas, Cannibalism and Witch burning become common place.

I am not saying that all PNG'ers are terrible people, but the country is a terrible country and in some ways, worse than the countries are fleeing to begin with.
Do you want me to start posting the numerous of photos I have of murdered children being eaten by the entire village in PNG?

You didn't just do it with PNG though:

Some Aussies are racist therefore all Aussies are racists.
Some Aussies are xenophobic therefore all Aussies are xenophobic.
Some politicians don't care about sea deaths therefore all politicians don't care about sea deaths.
Some in the media have Boltish views therefore all of the media have Boltish views.
Some people want to stop the boats for cynical reasons therefore all people want to stop the boats for cynical reasons.

I used to be pretty Greens-leftish on this issue and if no one ever died and the boat numbers didn't exponentially increase I'd probably still have those views but we don't live in that world. I am disgusted by how the issue is conducted. I hate seeing people in indefinite detention it is inhumane. I'm all for increasing our refugee intake. And I have no problems with the Greens espousing their views, I know it comes from a good place, but it doesn't make their aims achievable. There is no magic regional solution whilst there are 14m refugees and 45m displaced people around the world. Some poor fucker is always going to miss out while the numbers are so huge.
Avatar artist: Dain Fagerholm
big eddie +

Got soju?

big eddie's Avatar
Joined
Jan '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 8,126
Thanked 17,049 Times in 7,537 Posts
Posts
51,633
Kiron seeing as you are one of the lucky few living a charmed life in Australia. Isn't spending your time reading 4chan and raging about western society on the Internet a bit of a waste?
IHAVENEWLEGS +

Registered User

IHAVENEWLEGS's Avatar
Joined
Sep '11
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 1,463
Thanked 6,062 Times in 3,521 Posts
Posts
14,732
Well said Mogmac.
crabman +

I might be a **** but I'm not a fucking ****.

crabman's Avatar
Joined
Oct '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 15,417
Thanked 8,299 Times in 3,650 Posts
Posts
14,137
mogmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004....davidfickling

Port Moresby, is literally the worst place on earth.

Struggling to find a reference to rampant witch-burning in that article.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabman View Post

That's not facts, it's a page with a bunch of reports. You may as well have just posted www.google.com.

So, the latest Amnesty report with any numbers states 50 reported sorcery-related deaths in 2008 (and notes there may be more).

According to this the 2008 population was 6,473,910.

That gives us a 0.0077 (per thousand) death rate through sorcery-related violence.

The overall death rate in 2008 was 7.86.

In 2008 deaths through disease accounted for 90.64%, with "injury" making up 9.33%.

So the death rate for "injury" was 0.7333, and deaths through sorcery-related violence accounted for 1.0500% of that and 0.0979% of the overall figure.

It's horrible, but it's fuck all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

How about you people actually learn a little thing called having a fucking conscious and not being heartless sociopath you piece of shit.

الاستماع إلى ... ال التنفس المدينة.

اسم اللعبة هو ضوء يعمل.
smorchika +

Registered User

smorchika's Avatar
Joined
May '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,349
Thanked 510 Times in 349 Posts
Posts
5,229
See, i guess i would have more respect if krudd went and took the journey, went to source countries, transit countries and stayed for some time in a detention centre.

Its all well and good that our policy makers are middle class/white/australians who, for the most part will never have to deal directly with the kind of hardship faced by asylum seekers.

Its all becoming a bit children of men.

I used to think sarah hanson young was divicive (sp??) and manipulative - crying in parliament, but i understand where she is coming from now.
crabman +

I might be a **** but I'm not a fucking ****.

crabman's Avatar
Joined
Oct '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 15,417
Thanked 8,299 Times in 3,650 Posts
Posts
14,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by smorchika View Post

See, i guess i would have more respect if krudd went and took the journey, went to source countries, transit countries and stayed for some time in a detention centre.

That's just being silly.

Divisive

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

How about you people actually learn a little thing called having a fucking conscious and not being heartless sociopath you piece of shit.

الاستماع إلى ... ال التنفس المدينة.

اسم اللعبة هو ضوء يعمل.
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

I used to be pretty Greens-leftish on this issue and if no one ever died and the boat numbers didn't exponentially increase I'd probably still have those views but we don't live in that world. I am disgusted by how the issue is conducted. I hate seeing people in indefinite detention it is inhumane. I'm all for increasing our refugee intake. And I have no problems with the Greens espousing their views, I know it comes from a good place, but it doesn't make their aims achievable. There is no magic regional solution whilst there are 14m refugees and 45m displaced people around the world. Some poor fucker is always going to miss out while the numbers are so huge.

Would you be for sending refugees to North Korea?
In every way North Korea is a more developed country than PNG and ironically, refugees would be safer there than PNG.

If not, why not?
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
crabman +

I might be a **** but I'm not a fucking ****.

crabman's Avatar
Joined
Oct '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 15,417
Thanked 8,299 Times in 3,650 Posts
Posts
14,137
Stop being emotional and irrational and people might actually consider your views

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

How about you people actually learn a little thing called having a fucking conscious and not being heartless sociopath you piece of shit.

الاستماع إلى ... ال التنفس المدينة.

اسم اللعبة هو ضوء يعمل.
Geezah +

Raaaaaaaaaaaaarrghh

Geezah's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,825
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,176 Posts
Posts
12,935
Shall I ratchet up the emotion Kiron: are you against a policy that stops people dying at sea? If so, why?

I've never said this is a perfect solution. In fact I don't particularly like it but I like it more than I like seeing asylum seeing people die at sea. If that's what the policy achieves, I still won't like it much. I will only like it more than I like the current situation.
Avatar artist: Dain Fagerholm
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabman View Post

Stop being emotional and irrational and people might actually consider your views

How about you people actually learn a little thing called having a fucking conscious and not being heartless sociopath you piece of shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Shall I ratchet up the emotion Kiron: are you against a policy that stops people dying at sea? If so, why?

I've never said this is a perfect solution. In fact I don't particularly like it but I like it more than I like seeing asylum seeing people die at sea. If that's what the policy achieves, I still won't like it much. I will only like it more than I like the current situation.

"are you against a policy that stops people dying at sea? If so, why?"
Yes, because you are sending them to a country that is more dangerous and underdeveloped than what they initially fled in the first place, in fact, it's more humane just sending them back to fucking Afghanistan or Iraq.
Again, are you against a refugee policy that sends people to North Korea? In every way North Korea is a safer and more developed country than PNG, why would you be against it? It stawps da boats!

We have better solutions, the Greens solution IS BETTER, it has demonstrated physically in reality in the past it is a better and more humane solution, it is backed by many experts and human rights groups. The difference is, it doesn't pander to racists and actually takes a little bit of fucking tact, humility and diplomacy.

Australia DOES NOT HAVE A REFUGEE ISSUE. The only reason this is a issue, is not because people are drowning at sea, but because its easy votes to pander to Australia's racist culture.

I will make a bet more refugees will die in PNG than on boats.
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
Lambretta +

Now Aussie....STILL dodgy

Lambretta's Avatar
Joined
Oct '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 778
Thanked 1,018 Times in 665 Posts
Posts
23,121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

The difference is, England gets hundreds of thousands of refugees.
Australia gets a handful that are usually settled in the middle of nowhere.
Also Australia is 31x+ the size of England with not even a quarter of the population.

You can not compare Europe which takes the brunt of Refugees in any way to Australia. Europe in its entirety isn't even near the size of Australia.

From Wiki.....
Migration program outcomes have increased from 70,200 in 1999–00 to 168,685 in 2010–11.[5]
The Humanitarian program for 2011–12 is set at 13 750 places. This category includes a 12 per cent target for Woman at Risk visas. This allocation also includes Onshore Protection visas granted to people who apply for protection in Australia and are found to be refugees.[6] In 2010–11, a total of 13,799 visas were granted under the Humanitarian Program. A total of 5,998 visas were granted under the offshore component, including 759 Woman at Risk visas. In addition, 2,973 Special Humanitarian Program visas were granted to people outside Australia. A total of 4,828 visas were granted to people in Australia.[7] Australia resettles the third largest number of refugees of any country and more refugees, per capita, than any other nation in the world.............

back to me now...

for the whole of 2011-2012 we increased humanitarian allowance to 14,000 and yet 15,500 have arrived in the first half of 2013 alone. We now have to vet and place these people. People that had gone via countries that were not war torn and were perfectly safe for them to remain in. The major difference is that Australia potentially offers a better lifestyle for them.

Reports in the SMH last month showed that close to 95% of all illegal immigrants are still reliant on welfare after 5 years. For Immigrants allowed into Australia via government programs around a quarter receive government assistance and a large portion of those are not completely reliant on it.

One of the biggest social issues in Australia's history has centered on Lebanese muslims who came to Australia to do manufacturing jobs in the 1970's. Most had little or no English skills and the jobs they originally thought they could do disappeared as the manufacturing industry moved overseas.

High levels of unemployment, low education standards, difficulty assimilating into Australian society, feelings of alienation and resentment towards the majority of the people living in their adopted country (and vice versa). High levels of crime, attitudes towards the rights of women etc - the social issues that stemmed from this wave of immigration were endless and sadly remain to this day. This was from approximately 20,000 immigrants.

Why did I use this case and not say the Vietnamese or Greek or Italian etc waves of immigration? Well simply put, this group of people most closely represents the most recent wave of immigration. People from the Middle East with poor English skills, who remain reliant on welfare in the long term.

If you're going to accept people into Australia (and I believe we absolutely should) then we need to ensure that the people can be housed, fed, trained for employment to reduce reliance on welfare and provided proper support networks to ensure they become productive members of Australian society. We don't want to slam them in some ghetto, forcing them onto a life dependent of welfare and resentful towards Australia. It does them and us no good at all.

In order to do this immigration should be managed on our terms and no one elses. Telling people that arriving illegally will ensure they are never allowed in is bloody harsh, but unfortunately necessary.
Never mind the bollocks
Here's Lambretta
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambretta View Post

People that had gone via countries that were not war torn and were perfectly safe for them to remain in. The major difference is that Australia potentially offers a better lifestyle for them.

Reports in the SMH last month showed that close to 95% of all illegal immigrants

Sorry, while I now ignore you.
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
Lambretta +

Now Aussie....STILL dodgy

Lambretta's Avatar
Joined
Oct '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 778
Thanked 1,018 Times in 665 Posts
Posts
23,121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

Sorry, while I now ignore you.

They were figures released by the government and reported in the Herald

If you choose to ignore me because of facts then I welcome that
Never mind the bollocks
Here's Lambretta
Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambretta View Post

They were figures released by the government and reported in the Herald

If you choose to ignore me because of facts then I welcome that

1: Refugees are not illegal immigrants you retard.
2: The transit countries are not signatories to the refugee convention and are not safe for refugees. "War torn" has nothing to do with it.
3: News Corp. The main driving force behind this entire thing. They lie. It is their job to lie. They are racists.

What next, Stormfront.org a perfectly legitimate source for facts?
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
CircusMidget +

De plane! De plane!

CircusMidget's Avatar
Joined
Jan '09
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 301
Thanked 1,386 Times in 652 Posts
Posts
4,093

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

Would you be for sending refugees to North Korea?
In every way North Korea is a more developed country than PNG and ironically, refugees would be safer there than PNG.

If not, why not?

have you heard of the UNHCR kiron?
Astro-Boy +

Astro-Boy's Avatar
Joined
Oct '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 29,451
Thanked 23,515 Times in 10,717 Posts
Posts
40,872

Quote:

Originally Posted by crabman View Post

Stop being emotional and irrational and people might actually consider your views

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

How about you people actually learn a little thing called having a fucking conscious and not being heartless sociopath you piece of shit.

How perfectly reasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by CircusMidget View Post

have you heard of the UNHCR kiron?

Yeah, that is my point.
You people are defending policy that illegally sends people to a country that is more dangerous and less developed, than North Korea because you don't want to have to deal with the Human Rights Convention and the Refugee Convention and then you cry about "Boat deaths".

Cry me a fucking river

You people are hypocrites. You are monsters, and you have no conscious and you do the disgusting thing of pretending its done under "moral" reasons.
If you people came out and just said
"Fuck those darkies, Australia for whites only" I would be like "Well you are racist, but that is your view", but you are hiding it under the guise of doing for humanitarian reasons, which disgusts me beyond belief.
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
Astro-Boy +

Astro-Boy's Avatar
Joined
Oct '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 29,451
Thanked 23,515 Times in 10,717 Posts
Posts
40,872
What you don't see is that most people in this thread actually agree with the basic principle of your argument, Kiron. Just not the rabid way that you're arguing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

What you don't see is that most people in this thread actually agree with the basic principle of your argument, Kiron. Just not the rabid way that you're arguing it.

How can people not be rabid in the way they are arguing it. This is a travesty against humanity and the entire national character. When first heard about this policy, I was actually speechless for hours in how absolutely cruel it was. It makes me sick to my stomach.

This sort of pandering to the Xenophobia, is exactly how Fascism rose tit for tat. In fact, this policy, matches almost exactly, the original Nazi policy regarding Jews.
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
Astro-Boy +

Astro-Boy's Avatar
Joined
Oct '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 29,451
Thanked 23,515 Times in 10,717 Posts
Posts
40,872
I thought we had at least another page up our sleeve before you invoked Godwin's Law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

I thought we had at least another page up our sleeve before you invoked Godwin's Law.

Damn I forgot to write INB4 Godwin.

But it is. The original Nazi policy regarding Jews was that they were not to be settled in Germany, but Germany would help resettle them.. in the shittiest places on earth, like 1920/30s Madagascar.
So we already have the concentration camps, we already have the Nazi policy, All we need to do now is just get those ovens cranking and occupy the Tasman and then invade our giant Communist neighbor.
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
mogmac +

Registered User

mogmac's Avatar
Joined
May '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 774
Thanked 116 Times in 63 Posts
Posts
1,692

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

Shall I ratchet up the emotion Kiron: are you against a policy that stops people dying at sea? If so, why?

I've never said this is a perfect solution. In fact I don't particularly like it but I like it more than I like seeing asylum seeing people die at sea. If that's what the policy achieves, I still won't like it much. I will only like it more than I like the current situation.

The problem I have with this sentiment is that while stopping the boats, and I think im a bit different that a lot on this in that Im pretty confident that this will stop the boats, is that stopping boats has nothing to do with stopping human suffering. All it means is that we dont have to see it happen.

The numbers of asylum seekers and refugees in the world has nothing to do with our asylum policies. If they arent coming here it means they are somewhere else. Somewhere where they dont have legal protections and access to basic services. Somewhere where they are more at risk of violence, disease and deprivation. Somewhere that they might have to wait for 30 years for resettlement. Then again, if you are part of an undesirable category, like Afghan Hazaras (or lebenese muslims as Lambretta put it), you might never be selected by governments resettleing refugees and you might never actually get resettled.

I'd prefer to support safe passage of people from Indonesia to Australia than to stop the boats. Im think, perhaps, some arrangement could be organised for safe trips. Provide accommodation at transit points in indonesia instead of detention centres. have regular, escort, and safe trips to australia that limit the number of people coming. provide incentives for people to take those trips and disencentives for people who make unsafe journeys, but those disencentives should not stop them from having their claims assessed and adequate resettlement in australia.

Last edited by mogmac: 20-Jul-13 at 04:16pm

Kiron +

Mess with the best, Die like the rest!

Kiron's Avatar
Joined
Aug '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 79
Thanked 450 Times in 296 Posts
Posts
4,647

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogmac View Post

The problem I have with this sentiment is that while stopping the boats, and I think im a bit different that a lot on this in that Im pretty confident that this will stop the boats, is that stopping boats has nothing to do with stopping human suffering. All it means is that we dont have to see it happen.

The numbers of asylum seekers and refugees in the world has nothing to do with our asylum policies. If they arent coming here it means they are somewhere else. Somewhere where they dont have legal protections and access to basic services. Somewhere where they are more at risk of violence, disease and deprivation. Somewhere that they might have to wait for 30 years for resettlement. Then again, if you are part of an undesirable category, like Afghan Hazaras (or lebenese muslims as Lambretta put it), you might never be selected by governments resettleing refugees and you might never actually get resettled.

I'd prefer to support safe passage of people from Indonesia to Australia than to stop the boats. Im think, perhaps, some arrangement could be organised for safe trips. Provide accommodation at transit points in indonesia instead of detention centres. have regular, escort, and safe trips to australia that limit the number of people coming. provide incentives for people to take those trips and disencentives for people who make unsafe journeys, but those disencentives should not stop them from having their claims assessed and adequate resettlement in australia.

I agree.
Along with a new regional solution that gives refugees rights and protection in transit countries so they can settle there. Refugees in Indonesia are essentially not eligible for any work and their children go without education, this needs to be fixed immediately. I would also on a foreign policy level, denounce anyone that tries to destabilize regions for geopolitical purposes, like what Israel, the US, Saudi Arabia and Turkey are doing in Syria to stop the new Iran/Iraq/Syria oil pipeline.

If we as a country had the gut to stand up to how these transit countries treat refugees, instead of demonizing the refugees themselves, things may be very different.
Yak, yak, yak. Get a job
Kiron22 << Add me to Last.fm bitches so we can Hipster it up together
mogmac +

Registered User

mogmac's Avatar
Joined
May '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 774
Thanked 116 Times in 63 Posts
Posts
1,692

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

I agree.
Along with a new regional solution that gives refugees rights and protection in transit countries so they can settle there. Refugees in Indonesia are essentially not eligible for any work and their children go without education, this needs to be fixed immediately.

Yeah, if I remember correctly that was one of the good things that was going to come form the Malaysia solution (which was otherwise quite horrible), i think they were trying to get them to sign the refugee convention, which might have had great outcomes for the 200,000 asylum seekers/ refugees there now.

On the other part, I dont know. I dont know if denouncing countries necessarily brings desired change. Especially as I dont think we carry a lot of weight.
crabman +

I might be a **** but I'm not a fucking ****.

crabman's Avatar
Joined
Oct '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 15,417
Thanked 8,299 Times in 3,650 Posts
Posts
14,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

How about you people actually learn a little thing called having a fucking conscious and not being heartless sociopath you piece of shit.

Congratulations on providing my first sigged quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

3: News Corp. The main driving force behind this entire thing. They lie. It is their job to lie. They are racists.

It's Fairfax, but that sounds too much like something you're going out of your way to avoid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

This sort of pandering to the Xenophobia, is exactly how Fascism rose tit for tat. In fact, this policy, matches almost exactly, the original Nazi policy regarding Jews.

BOOM. Headshot.



P.S. It's conscience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

How about you people actually learn a little thing called having a fucking conscious and not being heartless sociopath you piece of shit.

الاستماع إلى ... ال التنفس المدينة.

اسم اللعبة هو ضوء يعمل.

Last edited by crabman: 20-Jul-13 at 05:33pm

phoneyhuh +

3o~

phoneyhuh's Avatar
Joined
Jul '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 16
Thanked 208 Times in 131 Posts
Posts
8,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogmac View Post

I'd prefer to support safe passage of people from Indonesia to Australia than to stop the boats. Im think, perhaps, some arrangement could be organised for safe trips. Provide accommodation at transit points in indonesia instead of detention centres. have regular, escort, and safe trips to australia that limit the number of people coming. provide incentives for people to take those trips and disencentives for people who make unsafe journeys, but those disencentives should not stop them from having their claims assessed and adequate resettlement in australia.

Trouble for you is most Australian's don't support your view, so the choice we have is either a) labor stops the boats or b) the Coalition gets in and they will stop the boats. Which of those do you prefer?

As for processing claims, it would be much cheaper to transfer them to existing UNHCR processing centers around the globe than to do it here. The government is currently spending around $70,000 per person. The 21st century is all about outsourcing, doing it somewhere else for less.

Last edited by phoneyhuh: 20-Jul-13 at 05:30pm

horst +

Registered User

horst's Avatar
Joined
Sep '02
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 239
Thanked 506 Times in 291 Posts
Posts
5,776
Kiron ffs, can you tone down the stuck pig?
mogmac +

Registered User

mogmac's Avatar
Joined
May '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 774
Thanked 116 Times in 63 Posts
Posts
1,692

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoneyhuh View Post

Trouble for you is most Australian's don't support your view, so the choice we have is either a) labor stops the boats or b) the Coalition gets in and they will stop the boats. Which of those do you prefer?

As for processing claims, it would be much cheaper to transfer them to existing UNHCR processing centers around the globe than to do it here. The government is currently spending around $70,000 per person. The 21st century is all about outsourcing, doing it somewhere else for less.

true, but does the 'choice we have' mean voting? in which case, vote for a third party? im voting greens. even though the likely outcome will be a) or b), that doesn't preclude supporting 3rd parties or candidates.

cost is an important issue, but i dont know if its entirely relevant to the big issue here- basic standards of treatment for asylum seekers. once we get there, lets talk efficiency.

anyway, ATM its unclear how cheap/expensive this outsourcing refugee resettlement will be. Guardian says hospitals, universities, and resettlement costs as well as expanding the holding capacity of manus island (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...ylum-boats-png) But as far as asylum seeker processing goes, offshore indefinite detention is apparently a shitload more expensive that community detention (http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliame...2013/Detention.. word search for 'cost' bring up some stuff). if thats in indicator, in not confident this will be cheaper.

Last edited by mogmac: 20-Jul-13 at 06:13pm

claude glass +

Registered User

claude glass's Avatar
Joined
Jun '10
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 25
Thanked 760 Times in 454 Posts
Posts
4,157
Kiron, it's a big country. Have you ever been there? You are just showing your ignorance about PNG. I think your heart is in the right place but you know, weird witchcraft shit happens in developed countries too. Google that.

The place is dangerous and poor, and Mogmac makes some sound points. which I agree with. But if this plan is accompanied by adequate funding it is actually a great idea. If this does deter people smuggling, it's harder to criticise it and funding needs will be lower. We can't avoid the fact that people smuggling is problematic because people keep drowning. It's entirely probable that people paying the smugglers don't fully know the risks. Evidence is already there that this will kill the smuggling industry, so that's some kind of win.

My preferred policy is that we should act generously and help everyone wanting to come here get here safely, and put them up humanely while they are processed. But we can't do that because the Coalition has leveraged racism to make that politically impossible. That is the new normal. No party can undo the vile political environment that Howard cultivated. Howard's legacy is disgraceful.

It sucks heavy sometimes, to think we live in a country that exploits third world labour, exports climate damaging coal, supports unjustified invasions, and generally behaves like a spoilt child. On the other hand, our privileged position affords us the strange luxury of being a preferred destination for half the world. The challenge for all of us who feel that way is to work out how to use our advantage for good without losing that advantage. I reckon that is the great challenge of our fortunate lives.

Last edited by claude glass: 20-Jul-13 at 06:28pm

smorchika +

Registered User

smorchika's Avatar
Joined
May '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,349
Thanked 510 Times in 349 Posts
Posts
5,229
Actually ive been thinking, if they really want to 'stop the boats' perhaps the best possible thing to do would be help create infrastructure in transit countries, give support and staff to places like jordan or pakistan, to help process claims and give these countries a reason to help/house and
resettle asylum seekers.
Give or help to create the necessary resources to resettle them, so that they dont get to this stage, i mean, the potential to do so much good is there... Instead we are falling hugely short on our responsibilities.

I think perhaps for me, the most distasteful part of all this is that its very much a case of out of sight out of mind and lets just wash our hands of this issue.
mogmac +

Registered User

mogmac's Avatar
Joined
May '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 774
Thanked 116 Times in 63 Posts
Posts
1,692

Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

The place is dangerous and poor, and Mogmac makes some sound points. which I agree with. But if this plan is accompanied by adequate funding it is actually a great idea. If this does deter people smuggling, it's harder to criticise it and funding needs will be lower. We can't avoid the fact that people smuggling is problematic because people keep drowning. It's entirely probable that people paying the smugglers don't fully know the risks. Evidence is already there that this will kill the smuggling industry, so that's some kind of win.

i really dont see how you can measure the greatness of an asylum seeker program by the degree to which it deters people smugglers. its not a criminal justice program, its a humanitarian program.

Also, this would only break a tiny part of the people smuggling chain. people will continue to flee and be trafficked through southeat asia, in places that arent monitored. sure, they might pop off the radar, it doesnt mean they have magically dissappered to happier pastures they never would have know about had it not been for those pesky people smugglers; they will continue to drown, suffer and die, but elsewhere.

the issue of most importance here is that asylum seekers and refugees will now unnecessarily be denied the ability enjoy basic rights. adequate funding wont address this as its hard to fathom how much funding would be needed to bring PNG's infrastructure up to acceptable levels, given what they would have enjoyed had we taken them in (like we are entirely capable of doing). education and health systems in developing countries (i dont know specifically about PNG, but its PNG so..) require more than just money to address. plus, all refugees will be uniquely disadvantaged and marginalised in PNG because they dont speak the language, many not even english, but also because they are undesirable outsiders who, if the situation for asylum seekers in other countries is to go by, wont even be able to rely on police not to abuse or exploit them. funding wont address these problems any time soon, not in an impoverished country that lacks institutional capacity like PNG.

The people who purposefully exploit them and unnecessarily put them in harms way, are horrible and should be undermined/ prosecuted/ whatever, but I dont see the logic in using the well-being of asylum seekers as the cost for undermining people who harm them.

edit: I do agree with the last part of what you say, however. Its a big challenge.

Last edited by mogmac: 20-Jul-13 at 07:44pm

Geezah +

Raaaaaaaaaaaaarrghh

Geezah's Avatar
Joined
Sep '03
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,825
Thanked 1,844 Times in 1,176 Posts
Posts
12,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post


This sort of pandering to the Xenophobia, is exactly how Fascism rose tit for tat. In fact, this policy, matches almost exactly, the original Nazi policy regarding Jews.

Are you fo real? Seriously. Go to the nether regions of the Australian batting order. Fo real, you fighty me lord.
Avatar artist: Dain Fagerholm
Fledz +

Royal Astrological Metaphysician

Fledz's Avatar
Joined
Aug '06
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 17,631
Thanked 6,163 Times in 3,050 Posts
Posts
16,836

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambretta View Post

From Wiki.....
Migration program outcomes have increased from 70,200 in 1999–00 to 168,685 in 2010–11.[5]
The Humanitarian program for 2011–12 is set at 13 750 places. This category includes a 12 per cent target for Woman at Risk visas. This allocation also includes Onshore Protection visas granted to people who apply for protection in Australia and are found to be refugees.[6] In 2010–11, a total of 13,799 visas were granted under the Humanitarian Program. A total of 5,998 visas were granted under the offshore component, including 759 Woman at Risk visas. In addition, 2,973 Special Humanitarian Program visas were granted to people outside Australia. A total of 4,828 visas were granted to people in Australia.[7] Australia resettles the third largest number of refugees of any country and more refugees, per capita, than any other nation in the world.............

back to me now...

for the whole of 2011-2012 we increased humanitarian allowance to 14,000 and yet 15,500 have arrived in the first half of 2013 alone. We now have to vet and place these people. People that had gone via countries that were not war torn and were perfectly safe for them to remain in. The major difference is that Australia potentially offers a better lifestyle for them.

Reports in the SMH last month showed that close to 95% of all illegal immigrants are still reliant on welfare after 5 years. For Immigrants allowed into Australia via government programs around a quarter receive government assistance and a large portion of those are not completely reliant on it.

One of the biggest social issues in Australia's history has centered on Lebanese muslims who came to Australia to do manufacturing jobs in the 1970's. Most had little or no English skills and the jobs they originally thought they could do disappeared as the manufacturing industry moved overseas.

High levels of unemployment, low education standards, difficulty assimilating into Australian society, feelings of alienation and resentment towards the majority of the people living in their adopted country (and vice versa). High levels of crime, attitudes towards the rights of women etc - the social issues that stemmed from this wave of immigration were endless and sadly remain to this day. This was from approximately 20,000 immigrants.

Why did I use this case and not say the Vietnamese or Greek or Italian etc waves of immigration? Well simply put, this group of people most closely represents the most recent wave of immigration. People from the Middle East with poor English skills, who remain reliant on welfare in the long term.

If you're going to accept people into Australia (and I believe we absolutely should) then we need to ensure that the people can be housed, fed, trained for employment to reduce reliance on welfare and provided proper support networks to ensure they become productive members of Australian society. We don't want to slam them in some ghetto, forcing them onto a life dependent of welfare and resentful towards Australia. It does them and us no good at all.

In order to do this immigration should be managed on our terms and no one elses. Telling people that arriving illegally will ensure they are never allowed in is bloody harsh, but unfortunately necessary.

Your views are exactly the same as mine, well said

The older I get, the more sympathetic and understanding I become about asylum seekers and the more I think that we should help if we can. However, you also need to be realistic when you look at it. Lambretta brings up good points about integration and the risk potential in the future if people are not processed properly. People need to assimilate, they can't just live in their own conclave in another country. I'm an immigrant, I know all too well how important retaining your culture is but also making sure you integrate well into your new country. Admittedly I'm a white male from a European background so it's probably a lot easier to do that in Australia but the principle is the same.

If I lived in Fairfield, only spoke Croatian, only hung out with other Croatians and refused to do anything Australian, what would be the point?
Likewise, if I completely forgot everything and became a 100% Aussie, that would also be a shame.
People need to find a middle ground when integrating, otherwise you end up with Lebanese situation that he mentioned.

When people are allowed to stay here and then are still on welfare after 5 years, surely that's a red flag isn't it? Whether it's them taking advantage or having some serious issue which prevents them from working and integrating doesn't really matter. What matters is that there is a problem and it needs to be addressed.
smorchika +

Registered User

smorchika's Avatar
Joined
May '07
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 3,349
Thanked 510 Times in 349 Posts
Posts
5,229
So there are two main issues here? One is to do with integration to make sure people become active and participating members of Australian society, the other, is finding a solution in regards to how they are getting here/what to do with them once they are here?
mogmac +

Registered User

mogmac's Avatar
Joined
May '04
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 774
Thanked 116 Times in 63 Posts
Posts
1,692
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-2...eekers/4833268

looks like its working..
Lambretta +

Now Aussie....STILL dodgy

Lambretta's Avatar
Joined
Oct '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 778
Thanked 1,018 Times in 665 Posts
Posts
23,121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

1: Refugees are not illegal immigrants you retard.
2: The transit countries are not signatories to the refugee convention and are not safe for refugees. "War torn" has nothing to do with it.
3: News Corp. The main driving force behind this entire thing. They lie. It is their job to lie. They are racists.

What next, Stormfront.org a perfectly legitimate source for facts?

Newsflash as reported by Kiron

"The Sydney Morning Herald is run by Newscorp and the Department of Human Services is pretty much Stormfront. " well I never.

Try READING what others are saying before shouting from your stupid soap box

PNG is a deterrent. It's not designed to play a part in housing people - it's designed to stop them coming in the first place.

If anyone really believes that this news won't be reported and widely distributed among people looking for refugee status then they're delusional. The idea is to try and stop people making the journey in the first place not dump them somewhere awful.

What we had previously was obviously not working. If you repeat the same things over and over again and get the same results you're an idiot to continue trying to do the same thing. Just look at the war on drugs.
Never mind the bollocks
Here's Lambretta
Lambretta +

Now Aussie....STILL dodgy

Lambretta's Avatar
Joined
Oct '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 778
Thanked 1,018 Times in 665 Posts
Posts
23,121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiron View Post

This sort of pandering to the Xenophobia, is exactly how Fascism rose tit for tat. In fact, this policy, matches almost exactly, the original Nazi policy regarding Jews.

Yes, the Australian Government is taking possession of people's businesses, repossessing their property, making citizens of Australia wear clothing showing them as being un-Australian and putting them into forced labor or starving them to death.

It's almost exactly the same in every respect. How couldn't we see this before?

Try actually understanding history before you use it to make a point.

The only similarity here is that people are ending up in detention.
Never mind the bollocks
Here's Lambretta
Lambretta +

Now Aussie....STILL dodgy

Lambretta's Avatar
Joined
Oct '01
Times thanked
<
Thanks: 778
Thanked 1,018 Times in 665 Posts
Posts
23,121
PS For the record, I really hope that no one is forced to go and live in PNG and that Australia continues to do everything possible to assist genuine refugees through it's own legitimate programs.
Never mind the bollocks
Here's Lambretta
Reply

« Previous Thread Next Thread »

Posting Rules

+
    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts