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The running thread

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http://www.readytorunbook.com/
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"The current promotion of barefoot running is based on oversimplified, poorly understood, equivocal and in some cases, absent research, but remains a trend in popular media based solely on an evolutionary/epidemiological hypothesis and anecdotal evidence."
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Sorry I haven't read the whole article, what is the recommendation then?

Should we run in conventional running shoes which shorten our heel cords and heel strike?
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Copy/pasta:

Quote:

Footstrike
There has been something of a preoccupation with the footstrike as a marker for clinical risk with barefoot running, presumably since it is relatively easily measured. The fundamental premise is that a forefoot strike, associated with flatter foot placement at touchdown,40 ,41 greater plantarflexion and greater knee flexion angle on impact, distribute the impact force across a greater surface area than the heel alone, thus cushioning the impact. Further, it has been proposed that the plantar fascia is used to create a support system for the arch of the foot and acts as a shock absorber and facilitate elastic restitution during running,41 ,42 and the shift to a more anterior footstrike changes the distribution of eccentric forces across the joints, with an increase in ankle eccentric work and concomitant decrease in loading on the knee joint.43

Complicating the discussion, however, is disagreement in findings relating footstrike to running speed. Hasegawa et al44 and Hayes and Caplan45 found that forefoot striking is more prevalent among faster runners, whereas Larson et al found no difference in footstrike among recreational runners with varying performance abilities. Further, discrepancies may have also been a result of both sample population (recreational vs competitive) and size. The strict characterisation of barefoot runners as forefoot strikers and shod runners as heel strikers is an oversimplification, and possibly incorrect.45 ,46 Indeed, a recent study by Hatala et al showed that heel striking was relatively common among a habitually barefoot population, with 72% landing on their heels at their preferred running speed. Although, as running speed increased, footstrike shifted towards the forefoot, but a significant percentage (40%) remains heel strikers. Thus, the suggestion that barefoot running is synonymous with forefoot striking is thus inaccurate and may obscure the real kinematic differences and their effects on injury risk.47 Interestingly, landing surfaces have been shown to influence the footstrike pattern in runners similarly to the different shoe conditions (and the absence of shoes). Thus, these surface differences may explain discrepancies and unusual findings in different studies and should be noted in future studies involving running.48

Nevertheless, numerous studies have associated footstrike with injury risk. Most recently Daoud et al49 found that runners who habitually rearfoot strike incur a higher injury rate of repetitive stress injuries when compared with runners who mostly forefoot strike. The authors propose that the absence of the impact peak in the ground reaction force during a forefoot strike compared with a rearfoot strike may contribute to lower rates of injury. If this hypothesis is correct, there may be many implications for the running community. However, it must be noted that this study account for performance ability, and the small sample size of 52 runners were divided into 36 rearfoot strikers and 16 forefoot strikers in each group, suggests that further research is required, with larger populations, equally distributed strike types, the type of runner and over a longer period. Alongside this, to categorise footstrike patterns in three clusters may be somewhat reductionist when foot striking has been shown to exist as a spectrum.50

The argument for barefoot running based on this research must however be understood in the light of research from Lieberman et al which found that some habitually shod individuals who run barefoot experience greater impact peaks and rates of loading than habitually barefoot runners.51 This is presumably because they do not adjust their footstrike and continue to land on the heel, exposing them to loading rates sevenfold greater than when in shoes.18 Thus, barefoot running is not by itself sufficient to produce this purported reduction in injury risk, and the transition, which is the logical clinical implication of the advice given to runners, may increase risk, albeit transiently.

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The dude who set a course record (4:14) for the 56km Two Bays this year posted this on the Roller Coaster Run FB page:

Hi all,
I'm looking to get involved in some long training runs and was wondering if you know any fast paced ultra running groups that run over the weekends? I'm starting to train for my first solo 100km in October and am aiming for a 7:30-7:45 for the event. A Sunday group would be ideal and anything up to 80km I would be happy to run.

And followed up with:

It will be 2 weeks after a hopeful sub 2:30 Melbourne marathon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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How much can he bench.
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Bit of a meataxe He can pickup the 20kg bag of rice from Coles without help.
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Ever since I haven't shaved, old people in Woolworths keep asking me where stuff is

I know i should be offended, but i don't have the heart to tell them i don't work there,

So i usually end up just telling them and going on my merry way
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In hindsight, the S&F merge with Lifestyle was a poor idea.
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Very good read about exercise-associated muscle cramping:
http://www.irunfar.com/2013/07/cramp...#idc-container
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http://eastsidecrew.com.au/running-t...-lara-tamsett/

good tips for anyone doing C2S. interesting to see her training program - pretty intense!
10 x 400m anyone? shiit.
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Good luck meggles. Just remember to never stop, slow down but never stop
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He's wrong, stop. Always stop. Save your energy for the sprint at the end.
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Yep, good luck!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bism View Post

He's wrong, stop. Always stop. Save your energy for the sprint at the end.

that 12km sprint from the 30k mark. haha

thanks y'all - really pumped for it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by airconteka View Post

If you don't do a sub 3:45 ill eat my hat. Please do it as I am running out of hats.

Get fucked, 3:45 on the dot
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Great run though!
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Nicely done Meg.
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Nice one
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Holy hell, negative split too.

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Has somebody deleted a post?
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Nah. Meg posted her bib # for the GC marathon in the sports thread a hwhile ago, but in the interests of privacy it's probably better to not directly link to her results.
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Fair enough, thought she may have posted her Garmin details then removed it as only Pete can do better
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Good stuff!
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Congrats Meg!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

http://theclimbingcyclist.com/climbs...ark/mt-hotham/

I will run/walk/crawl that in under 7 hours no later than 31DEC14.

Your move, Tobi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

Hotham is only 30km, I'm planning to do that as one of my long training runs.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by airconteka View Post

Get fucked, 3:45 on the dot

thanks - actually had way too much energy at the end. should have gone harder!

I started w 4 hrs in mind, but after about 28km sitting around 5:20/km, I thought I could make it under 3:45 (glenn yous et the challenge in my head!). pushed it as much as I could so stoked to get 3:45 flat. in hindsight could have gone a little bit faster in the first 25km, but had weird shooting pain in my ankle which was came and went throughout so I was wary not to go too hard in case it got unbearable. all in all I think I ran the race really well.
I also stopped to go to the bathroom along the way, and hug my cheering dad (which I now wish I hadn't - those precious seconds! haha) but really enjoyed it overall.
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Great work!

If you don't mind can you post an idea of your training schedule? Im trying to find something that will suit me for October, it's kind of tricky though because football season ends early September so it rules out long weekend runs until then..
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj Whisper View Post

Great work!

If you don't mind can you post an idea of your training schedule? Im trying to find something that will suit me for October, it's kind of tricky though because football season ends early September so it rules out long weekend runs until then..

I trained for my road marathon (in September) while also playing soccer, and it doesn't rule out long runs. If you're playing a full 90 minutes on Saturday, back it up with a ~20-25km easy run on Sunday and you'll be set. Mid-week training covers speed work, and you can add in a tempo run and/or race pace run as needed.
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Cheers mate, my issue is that I play Sunday mornings. Haven't been game enough to try get through 20+ km the day before a game..

Might be a good experiment though if I back the pace right off
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It seems like your runs at the moment are all just flat chat. If you really start upping your distances, this is a very good way to get injured. The idea of the long run is not to make you faster, it's aimed at making you used to spending long periods of time on your feet. The first rule of training for a marathon is don't get injured. Playing on Sunday does make things harder, but I think it's still possible.

As a guide, my GF is currently training for the Sydney marathon. She's aiming for sub 4 hours (although I think 3:50 is more likely). According to the Jack Daniels running formula, the "easy pace" for long runs should be about 5:55 - 6:15min/km, significantly slower than the 5:41min/km required for a 4 hour marathon, and a great deal slower than the 5 min/km she did in her last half. All of your runs should have a clear goal - you don't get faster in your long runs.
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Cheers
Yeah the last few months I've had a shitload going on both at and outside of work which means I'm lucky to get an hour free to run 3-4 times a week. Figured without having weekends free to rack up miles it was a good chance to try find and get used to running at my ideal race pace.

Now it's a matter of finding a program to help me get the mileage up without, as you mentioned, destroying my body
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Are you planning on the Melbourne marathon? I'd suggest having a look at the Daniels Running formula and seeing if you can adapt one of his training plans.

Unrelated: Good read about Ben Duffus coming third in the recent World Skyrunning Champs:
http://benduffus.com/2014/07/06/80km...ionships-2014/
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yeah Melbourne in October. Gives me about 14 weeks.. found what looks like a decent 12 week program, so fingers crossed I get some movement back in my knee over the next 2 weeks then I get can started! Program has the long easy runs each sunday, but at that kind of pace I'd probably be happy backing up and doing them after soccer (even if I take 5km off them initially to compensate)

Punched some of my quicker 10-12 km run times into the JD calculator and it's giving me exactly what my goal time is for the marathon, so I've got some easy and tempo paces now to work with.

the rest of my life can go and get fucked for the next 3 months
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You don't have to do your long run on the weekend, you could do a mid week one before or after work
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A friend's little sister is running 2,350km across the Freedom Trail in South Africa (80+km a day over 32 days), to raise money for Save the Children.

http://www.freedomrunners.org

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

http://theclimbingcyclist.com/climbs...ark/mt-hotham/

I will run/walk/crawl that in under 7 hours no later than 31DEC14.

Your move, Tobi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

Hotham is only 30km, I'm planning to do that as one of my long training runs.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mischa21 View Post

thanks - actually had way too much energy at the end. should have gone harder!

I started w 4 hrs in mind, but after about 28km sitting around 5:20/km, I thought I could make it under 3:45 (glenn yous et the challenge in my head!). pushed it as much as I could so stoked to get 3:45 flat. in hindsight could have gone a little bit faster in the first 25km, but had weird shooting pain in my ankle which was came and went throughout so I was wary not to go too hard in case it got unbearable. all in all I think I ran the race really well.
I also stopped to go to the bathroom along the way, and hug my cheering dad (which I now wish I hadn't - those precious seconds! haha) but really enjoyed it overall.

Missed this, yeah seemed to me like that was a more realistic goal time for you. Much easier to push yourself if you have a goal, the art of course is setting an achievable one lest you push yourself too hard. Anyway you beat my first marathon time by a minute so you've got a sub 3:30 in you for sure
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DuncanM View Post

59km and a heavy (for me) squat session in the last 5 days. Time for a rest.

I was just talking to a mate who is doing a 120 miler in August, he'd just got back from his second run of the day and had done 34km for the day on a Wednesday.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DuncanM View Post

I was just talking to a mate who is doing a 120 miler in August, he'd just got back from his second run of the day and had done 34km for the day on a Wednesday.

that's just getting silly. how on earth would you have the time? plus, your whole life would be consumed in running and running prep. impressive, but silly.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj Whisper View Post

Great work!

If you don't mind can you post an idea of your training schedule? Im trying to find something that will suit me for October, it's kind of tricky though because football season ends early September so it rules out long weekend runs until then..

I didn't really work to one except to build my long runs on the weekend.

During the week I do 3 body attack classes, 3 pump classes, 2 body weight circuit conditioning classes, and 2 run sessions (interval hills around 6-10km). then on a sunday I'd do 1 long run.

I started prepping for the marathon after running a half marathon (so I was trained and comfortable at 21kms).
I then just did 4 long runs: 28km, 33km, 36km, 24km leading up to the marathon.

I think ideally if you can run 2-3 times during the week (speed, tempo, interval work) and then one long run on the weekend.

I train a lot during the week and was worried about overtraining, but I tried to take it easy where I could, and always made sure I did the long run. you learn a lot from that, and that is what helps you understand what running for 3+ hours feels like, and what it feels like after!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

The Sun-Herald City2Surf presented by Westpac

Name Notta Smartman
Category M30-39
Group The Sun-Herald Green Start(sub 90mins)

Definitely won't regret this, no sir.

Some jerk I know has ruined this by having his birthday blowout in Melbourne the night before C2S, so I'm just gonna do a 56km ultra in January instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

Some jerk I know has ruined this by having his birthday blowout in Melbourne the night before C2S, so I'm just gonna do a 56km ultra in January run up Hotham instead.

FYP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

http://theclimbingcyclist.com/climbs...ark/mt-hotham/

I will run/walk/crawl that in under 7 hours no later than 31DEC14.

Your move, Tobi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

Hotham is only 30km, I'm planning to do that as one of my long training runs.

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Hotham is only 30km, I'm planning to do that as one of my long training runs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Easy money. 30km ain't nuthin' to ya.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

Hotham is only 30km, I'm planning to do that as one of my long training runs.

Holding you to that.

(sorry nads, the sperg kid had to go).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

http://theclimbingcyclist.com/climbs...ark/mt-hotham/

I will run/walk/crawl that in under 7 hours no later than 31DEC14.

Your move, Tobi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

Hotham is only 30km, I'm planning to do that as one of my long training runs.

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I'm actually really excited about getting back into it. Also planning a weekend on the peninsula where I'll do Dromana to Cape Schanck on the Saturday, stay at the lighthouse overnight, then back to Dromana on Sunday. Yeeeeee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Also, check this out.

lolfuck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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My buddy who did 34km the other day is doing Fat Dog - 120 miles with the same vertical gain as climbing Everest from sea level. I think Western States was originally a horse race until some bloke turned up without a horse. As you do.
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People are so silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heraclitus

Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post



I'm actually really excited about getting back into it. Also planning a weekend on the peninsula where I'll do Dromana to Cape Schanck on the Saturday, stay at the lighthouse overnight, then back to Dromana on Sunday. Yeeeeee.

Nice work, glad to see you are getting back into things.

After riding on the weekend & being way too sore for my own good my only solution was that I need to train (& snowboard) more.

Also, I've discovered that winter is a great time for running as the temp is great. Sure it's cold when you start out but within a couple of minutes it doesn't matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

http://theclimbingcyclist.com/climbs...ark/mt-hotham/

I will run/walk/crawl that in under 7 hours no later than 31DEC14.

Your move, Tobi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro-Boy View Post

Hotham is only 30km, I'm planning to do that as one of my long training runs.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DuncanM View Post

My buddy who did 34km the other day is doing Fat Dog - 120 miles with the same vertical gain as climbing Everest from sea level. I think Western States was originally a horse race until some bloke turned up without a horse. As you do.

Saw a photo of Brendans toes after that, think he broke one around the 75 mile mark. Equally gross and impressive.
Unspoilt by Progress
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