[buffed]

Bob Carr needs to resign and now.

The state governments' handling of the Macquarie Fields issue and their constant bungling is kindergarten level politics.

It's just a crying shame that the Liberal party has no one better than John Brogden, but the state labor party is out of control.

They simply have no idea when it comes to the basics like having trains run on time, law and order, health and an equitable state tax system.........the state is in an absolute mess.

[DJ Fusion]

Love the thread heading.

Because y'know, the govt decided to assemble in Mac Fields and start throwing rocks and molotov cocktails at police.

[Lady Lex]

Yeh Buffed. its one man's sole responsibility to keep each and every one of his citizens in line. Heil Premier!

[Insomniac]

Well, I'd agree that the present mob don't appear to be handling things too well - I think any government, Labor or Liberal, will tend to get on the nose after such a long incumbency... and Bob Carr would be an extraordinary man carrying the humility of Christ if he hasn't let his success go to his head to any degree.

I do think, though, that the problems with infrastructure, though poorly handled currently, were probably caused aeons ago, because governments hardly ever plan ahead... it's not until we're about five years into a massive drought, several years into the tangible effects of global warming, and with a Warragamba level of 30% or whatever that governments actually start the snail-paced process of inquiries, plans, discussions, etc... God knows when it will actually be sorted out.

I think if governments 15-20 years ago had had any foresight, all these infrastructure-related problems may not be so nasty now. Unfortunately, however, the electorate tends to reward governments who promise short-term goodies, despite the long-term disasters ensuing.

[Stealthy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

It's just a crying shame that the Liberal party has no one better than John Brogden

Yeah, I'm devestated that we aren't governed by the liberal party at the federal AND state level.

It's a affecting my sleep.

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Fusion

Love the thread heading.

Because y'know, the govt decided to assemble in Mac Fields and start throwing rocks and molotov cocktails at police.

of course not.......i'm referring to the way the police handled the matter........that jesse kelly dude is still on the run. It's a debacle any way you look at it.

Those morons rioting at Macquarie fields should have been squashed by the police that night. Instead it turned into a 5 day mess and it's still not resolved.

The buck stops with the premier.

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaos

Dont get me started buffed. That four-eyed bastard is going to cost me a mint on duties on my investments .

He's a stupid fuck. Investment is pouring out of this state at a rapid rate to Queensland in particular and Victoria.

[DJ Fusion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

Those morons rioting at Macquarie fields should have been squashed by the police that night.

And then you'd probably be in here condemning police brutality.... meh. :p

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Fusion

And then you'd probably be in here condemning police brutality.... meh. :p

not at all........no bleeding heart here.

[Insomniac]

I am policophobic (is that a word? It should be!) I just don't like the idea that there are people out there who, for some stupid reason to do with badges and guns, have 'authority' over me. Fuck that, I've got no respect for them at all. I'm sure there are plenty of police officers out there doing the right thing and doing a good job, but I just hate the philosophy/ideology behind the idea of having police to begin with.

/end rant

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insomniac

I am policophobic (is that a word? It should be!) I just don't like the idea that there are people out there who, for some stupid reason to do with badges and guns, have 'authority' over me. Fuck that, I've got no respect for them at all. I'm sure there are plenty of police officers out there doing the right thing and doing a good job, but I just hate the philosophy/ideology behind the idea of having police to begin with.

/end rant

If we don't have police, then there is no point having any laws. Is complete anarchy what you're after?

[Insomniac]

Well, complete anarchy is, ironically enough, probably the only way the world could achieve pure freedom...

I realise that the system works the way it does because it has to, but it's just a shame that there's so much greed and selfishness around that we need laws and law enforcement.

You may say I'm a dreamer... etc

[h0rf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

no bleeding heart here.

typical liberal party catchcry imo...

stupid thread

[Geezah]

Quote:

of course not.......i'm referring to the way the police handled the matter........that jesse kelly dude is still on the run. It's a debacle any way you look at it.

It's a police issue, I don't see what Carr can do about it to catch the dude.

It pangs me to say it but I agree that Carr and the ALP have gone the pong. I won't vote for him again.

Insomniac I think you are right on the $ regarding previous governments being short-sighted as well as the electorate at large. Having said that Carr and the ALP have been in a while now they should have started with rail and health as soon as they got in. Thank fucken Christ Costa as been woopassed to shitsville. That guy is a ****. I'd rather have the namby pamby dickwad Brogden as premier than Costa any day. Not that Costa would ever win over the electorate.

Scully is fucked, Knowles is fucked, Refshauge is not bad and Egan did an awesome job as treasurer.

Just another thing do you all reckon it is disgraceful that MP's, state or federal, aren't made to live in the electorate they work for. Take Knowlesy boy, he lives in Bowral, yet is member for Mac Fields. Same with Reba Meagher, lives in Coogee, but is member for Cabramatta. I don't see how Labor can profess to be the Party for the workers and middle class and yet have members entirely disconnected from their electorates. This needs to be looked at seriously. You are accountable to your electorate first and formost but will have little knowledge of the areas immediate and long term needs if you are fucking living somewhere totally different.

[dAvoZ]

Exactly right with foresight. The current state governments, which are rolling in cash due to the GST and healthy economy, and have been for some time, should have been spending up huge on infrastructure for the past decade. State governments have no excuse, piss poor performances by Carr and Beattie in particular.

[Bracko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

He's a stupid fuck. Investment is pouring out of this state at a rapid rate to Queensland in particular and Victoria.

and.. of course, you have the figures to prove this.

[Bracko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealthy

Yeah, I'm devestated that we aren't governed by the liberal party at the federal AND state level.

It's a affecting my sleep.

here here.

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

and.. of course, you have the figures to prove this.

I work directly in one of the most affected industries. I know of plenty of major investors who have simply shut up shop in Sydney and are now directing their investment considerations to Victoria and Queensland. I'm not talking hindreds of thousand of dollars and mom's and dads.......i'm talking millions.

Bob Carr is a moron.

[THEHEATH]

[Davomaxi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

Bob Carr needs to resign and now.

The state governments' handling of the Macquarie Fields issue and their constant bungling is kindergarten level politics.

It's just a crying shame that the Liberal party has no one better than John Brogden, but the state labor party is out of control.

They simply have no idea when it comes to the basics like having trains run on time, law and order, health and an equitable state tax system.........the state is in an absolute mess.

haha buffed - if John Howard was responsible for all the above stuff you wouldn't have a thing to say about it.

[THEHEATH]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

I really don't see why such a fuss was created other than typically bashing the government.........makes everyone look quite silly.

[SoLaCeLL]

I aint voting for brogden.......thats the only thing stopping me voting for liberal........

Nigga broke the law the nigga has to pay........

The police should grow some balls and show more force, but you cant stop the wankers from rioting.........need to catch the ring leaders, all they are doing as just holding up their shields and taking the hits, they need to 187 their asses using rubber bullets, tear gas and other shit military style!!

[Lady Lex]

well.. as a proud Queenslander: I guess Im happy about that???

fabulous.. the Queensland infrastructure would SURELY handle all this trans-migration!! Carn Peter Beattie.

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaos

But he isnt so your point is irrelevant.
Youre right buffed i know scores of people investing outside of this state lately.

precisely my learned friend.

[N4TE]

It's not the government's fault investors can see Sydney's a shit hole. Is it?

[Optimus Rhyme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insomniac

Well, complete anarchy is, ironically enough, probably the only way the world could achieve pure freedom...

I realise that the system works the way it does because it has to, but it's just a shame that there's so much greed and selfishness around that we need laws and law enforcement.

You may say I'm a dreamer... etc

Blah dee blah...

so basically, if the world was so perfect that we didn't need certain things, that would be good, but since it isn't..... well.... you really really wish it was?

Fascinating!

[Insomniac]

I was just answering a question

Ever wondered how much less inclined people would be to rebel if there wasn't an obvious force of authority around?

I have spent enough time with the people of the shitholes/streets in Redfern to know that just having the police there is a reason that people start stirring shit up...

[SoLaCeLL]

well i heard from a RELIABLE source that the big wigs are stopping the coppers from SHOWING FORCE..........but you guys already knew that ...... the coppers are limited in what they can do, i know a few who want to go belt some heads ....

[Optimus Rhyme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insomniac

I was just answering a question

Ever wondered how much less inclined people would be to rebel if there wasn't an obvious force of authority around?

I have spent enough time with the people of the shitholes/streets in Redfern to know that just having the police there is a reason that people start stirring shit up...

Yes yes, I know, I know...

There are corrupt policeman around, and they can cause problems... but you know what? it's a fact that most people who hate police, do so because the police won't let them commit crimes, whether they admit that's the reason or not. Plain and simple.

Yeah, maybe people would be less inclined to rebel. But People WOULD still be fucking people over, you know this, I know this, so all i'm saying is, your point is moot. It's better to have police than to not, sure it's nice to fantasize about a magical land where we don't need them, but this is real life and it will never ever ever ever be able to happen.

I'm not saying that having police is perfect and that they are all-honourable, but we simply DO need an authority... as you say, human greed will always overcome, even if we lived in some sort of Anarchist paradise where everyone could get what they wanted, people would always want more.... so there needs to be an authority.

[Darude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Optimus Rhyme

Yes yes, I know, I know...

There are corrupt policeman around, and they can cause problems... but you know what? it's a fact that most people who hate police, do so because the police won't let them commit crimes, whether they admit that's the reason or not. Plain and simple.

Yeah, maybe people would be less inclined to rebel. But People WOULD still be fucking people over, you know this, I know this, so all i'm saying is, your point is moot. It's better to have police than to not, sure it's nice to fantasize about a magical land where we don't need them, but this is real life and it will never ever ever ever be able to happen.

I'm not saying that having police is perfect and that they are all-honourable, but we simply DO need an authority... as you say, human greed will always overcome, even if we lived in some sort of Anarchist paradise where everyone could get what they wanted, people would always want more.... so there needs to be an authority.

I think what he said is valid in the maquarie fields scenario. Someone made this point in the other thread, and i agree with it. The stand offs at MF just seem so pointless when you look at them. The cops are there because the louts are there and the louts are there because the cops are these, so it would make sense for the cops not to be there simply for the sake of standing in the street just inciting hate. The louts wouldnt be standing in the street swearing and throwing bins at themselves. They are doing it for a reason so it makes sense to avoid conflict when its totally unneccessary as is the case at MF's where the cops stand in the middle of the steet like morons and get pelted.

[Dj Logik]

Macquarie Fields is definately a bad neighborhood.

Bob Carr does not have one answer to any of the problems!

Time to overthrow Carr and get NSW back on track.

[DJ Fusion]

Yeah, because throwing Bob Carr out will make them all want to stop committing crimes and get jobs.

Time to bulldoze Mac Fields more like it.

[Flying747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

He's a stupid fuck. Investment is pouring out of this state at a rapid rate to Queensland in particular and Victoria.

buffed, this is not the fault of any government, liberals will do no better. it is because of the way NSW has developed over the last 70-80 years.

you can get get away with a gladstone in QLd, barely, but you won't in NSW. It's not the govt, it's the voters.

just as in US, you don't get major industrial development in New York or LA. they go to the midwest eg Denver.

[Flying747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

Bob Carr needs to resign and now.

The state governments' handling of the Macquarie Fields issue and their constant bungling is kindergarten level politics.

It's just a crying shame that the Liberal party has no one better than John Brogden, but the state labor party is out of control.

They simply have no idea when it comes to the basics like having trains run on time, law and order, health and an equitable state tax system.........the state is in an absolute mess.

you sound like the daily telegraph or a current affair - do you write their copy? if so you should, suitably simplistic and infammatory

[Punkii]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insomniac

Well, complete anarchy is, ironically enough, probably the only way the world could achieve pure freedom...

So if there are no laws and axe murderers and rapists are allowed to roam the earth unimpeded, how free would you feel to walk the streets and down dark alleys?"

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying747

buffed, this is not the fault of any government, liberals will do no better. it is because of the way NSW has developed over the last 70-80 years.

you can get get away with a gladstone in QLd, barely, but you won't in NSW. It's not the govt, it's the voters.

just as in US, you don't get major industrial development in New York or LA. they go to the midwest eg Denver.

you are incorrect there 747.

It is the fault of the government. The new vendor tax that Bob Carr introduced on selling property is a classic example and one of the key drivers of property investment leaving this state.

It is a massive impost on investment in itself.......coupled with the double whammy of high stamp duty and it's a major hit on investment.

Same issue with land tax.........the government is thankfully reviewing it's decision on land tax, but it's another impost that can be blamed on the labor government.

Neither of those taxes would have been levied by a Liberal government.

[Flying747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

you are incorrect there 747.

It is the fault of the government. The new vendor tax that Bob Carr introduced on selling property is a classic example and one of the key drivers of property investment leaving this state.

It is a massive impost on investment in itself.......coupled with the double whammy of high stamp duty and it's a major hit on investment.

Same issue with land tax.........the government is thankfully reviewing it's decision on land tax, but it's another impost that can be blamed on the labor government.

Neither of those taxes would have been levied by a Liberal government.

oh property investment... pfft! my mistake.

it's about time the property thing slowed down for a while anyway

i thought you meant the type of investment we really need. investment in industrial infrastructure growth, not investment in personal wealth growth

[Flying747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaos

747 usually i agree with what you have to say , its clear , concise and well thought out but dont you think youre being abit too apologetic for the current state of affairs in regards to all this ?

see above comment.

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying747

oh property investment... pfft! my mistake.

it's about time the property thing slowed down for a while anyway

i thought you meant the type of investment we really need. investment in industrial infrastructure growth, not investment in personal wealth growth

what are you talking about?

What do you think keeps thousands of construction contractors, plumbers, builders, carpenters, retailers etc employed?.........the property and construction industry is one if not the the most important barometer of economic activity in this country.

I'm not talking single dwellings here i'm talking major investment.

That was a pretty naive comment from someone i expected to be more intelligent.

[Flying747]

for what it's worth 90% of the decisions are made by the bureaucrats that work for government, and these people are there regardless of who is in govt.

as for land tax - apart from some people unfairly burdened, this tax hits people busy minimising their tax in the first place so I don't see an issue. I also think that the focus on property acquisition this state over the last few years is bordering on obscene and definitely unbalanced.

another thing re tax - the centrally controlled tax collection system in this country has always been absurd. if tax was collected by the jurisdiction that pays for infrastructure and services it would be far more equitable - and it looks like things will only get worse

it is insane that the federal govt can have a $10 billion surplus and not be responsible for providing the services and infrastructure - and what will it do when it can fully control that money? buy marginal electorates which all governments do. Will that help NSW? No.

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying747

for what it's worth 90% of the decisions are made by the bureaucrats that work for government, and these people are there regardless of who is in govt.

as for land tax - apart from some people unfairly burdened, this tax hits people busy minimising their tax in the first place so I don't see an issue. I also think that the focus on property acquisition this state over the last few years is bordering on obscene and definitely unbalanced.

policy decisions are made by politicians, not bureaucrats.

'some' people unfairly burdened is a gross understatement of the truth. The new land tax levy has affected something like 250,000 property owners who were not previously paying tax.

Most small property investors are simply providing for their retirement, something we should be encouraging more people to do given our ageing population. Instead, morons like Bob Carr take that incentive away.

[Flying747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

policy decisions are made by politicians, not bureaucrats.

not when i worked in government.

[Flying747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

Most small property investors are simply providing for their retirement, something we should be encouraging more people to do given our ageing population. Instead, morons like Bob Carr take that incentive away.

How do you know that statistic?

And no, requiring that pensioners be landlords is not necessarily something we should be encouraging, although I'm sure children of landlord pensioners embrace that view.

Property only became useful as an investment for small property investors as a result of capital gains tax changes, and what that has done is put property ownership out of reach of a whole generation of people and artificially inflated small property assets. The result? BLocks and blocks of shoddy fire-risk apartments built by rapacious unethical developers.

[THEHEATH]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying747

not when i worked in government.

Well I have to agree with buffed. When I worked in government 90% of the actual work was done by (us) bureaucrats, however all that work could and was sent back at the whim of the Minister as they were the ones that ultimately decided on the policies.

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying747

How do you know that statistic?

And no, requiring that pensioners be landlords is not necessarily something we should be encouraging, although I'm sure children of landlord pensioners embrace that view.

Property only became useful as an investment for small property investors as a result of capital gains tax changes, and what that has done is put property ownership out of reach of a whole generation of people and artificially inflated small property assets. The result? BLocks and blocks of shoddy fire-risk apartments built by rapacious unethical developers.

what do you mean how do i know that statistic?Why do people buy investment propertes?........in order to grow their asset base and provide for themselves and their family. How is that a bad thing?.........having people who have an asset and income base that enables them to be self-funded retirees. You make it sound as though anyone who has an investment property was given it to them. Many are modest income earners who work hard and more importantly save hard and then leverage off the equity in their own home.

Woud you prefer that everyone sponges off the government on pensions when they retire? Superannuation for the average person amounts to fuck all when they retire.

Investment stock provides housing for renters as well. Who will provide rental stock if investment properties dry up, the government? There are always periodic supply imbalances, but the market corrects those imbalances if and when they occur. When we have periodic over-supply, rentals go down, thus making renting more affordable.

The massive net migraton of people to Sydney each year has just as big an impact on housing prices.......do we shut our borders so as to suppress demand?

You are putting up a very illogical argument.

[Flying747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

what do you mean how do i know that statistic?Why do people buy investment propertes?........in order to grow their asset base and provide for themselves and their family. How is that a bad thing?.........having people who have an asset and income base that enables them to be self-funded retirees. You make it sound as though anyone who has an investment property was given it to them. Many are modest income earners who work hard and more importantly save hard and then leverage off the equity in their own home.

Woud you prefer that everyone sponges off the government on pensions when they retire? Superannuation for the average person amounts to fuck all when they retire.

Investment stock provides housing for renters as well. Who will provide rental stock if investment properties dry up, the government? There are always periodic supply imbalances, but the market corrects those imbalances if and when they occur. When we have periodic over-supply, rentals go down, thus making renting more affordable.

The massive net migraton of people to Sydney each year has just as big an impact on housing prices.......do we shut our borders so as to suppress demand?

You are putting up a very illogical argument.

Well no I don't think I am putting up an illogical argument.

There other other avenues for investment you know, it doesn't have to be domestic property. Domestic property investment doesn't provide growth for any sector other than the building and finance industries. This is one of the reasons we have the largest current account deficit on record. We are not making anything for export. We are importing everything. Ships are coming in full and going out empty.

No, I don't think people had investment property given to them. Not at all. And I am all for independence and self-sufficiency (ie - I am not the rabid socialist you seem to think I am.) But think what will happen if there is a big bust in the property market. A lot of people relying on property could be in big trouble. It's not what you would call a diversified portfolio. An example of the potential risk is the impact of the land tax you talk about. It demonstrates the sensitivity to any change in the property-as-investment status quo.

What has happened is that our economic growth has been shoehorned into the property sector, leaving little investment in industry. Industry has gone offshore. There is a skills shortage. You can't make anything or provide any service with a house. We need to make things and provide services, but our strategy has been to rely heavily on the property sector, with the government propping up the economy with incentives to buyers - adding increased risk with a lot of marginal owners at huge risk from an increase in interet rates or alternatively, inflation.

I don't agree with you point about renters. The lack of affordability of owning a home due to inflated house prices will forever increase the proportion of renters. Properties as investment might create supply, but it also creates increasing demand. The debt burden will also drive up rental prices in the longer term. So in places like Sydney with the highest prices, people will move interstate to buy a home or move to outer western suburbs increasing the burden on infrastructure provision, such as transport and sewer & water supply, which need to be funded by taxes, rates and tolls. And the next generation of young people on average incomes in Sydney will never be able to afford a house.

I see this whole property as investment thing to be shortsighted with benefits only available to the people fortunate enought to be able to jump on board the property market during the accelerated price rise. It does not provide for a solid future for our economy. The future only holds two options. Either there will be a increase in the stuctural number of renters in our community, or there will be a crash that will burn many people, as has happened in Canada and Great Britain following similar experiences.

Your concern about land tax clearly shows how sensitive this investment approach is. The reserve bank is increasing interest rates clearly to steer investment away from property and into institutional investment. It quite clearly says so. Perhaps you know something the reserve bank doesn't.

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying747

Well no I don't think I am putting up an illogical argument.

There other other avenues for investment you know, it doesn't have to be domestic property. Domestic property investment doesn't provide growth for any sector other than the building and finance industries. This is one of the reasons we have the largest current account deficit on record. We are not making anything for export. We are importing everything. Ships are coming in full and going out empty.

No, I don't think people had investment property given to them. Not at all. And I am all for independence and self-sufficiency (ie - I am not the rabid socialist you seem to think I am.) But think what will happen if there is a big bust in the property market. A lot of people relying on property could be in big trouble. It's not what you would call a diversified portfolio. An example of the potential risk is the impact of the land tax you talk about. It demonstrates the sensitivity to any change in the property-as-investment status quo.

What has happened is that our economic growth has been shoehorned into the property sector, leaving little investment in industry. Industry has gone offshore. There is a skills shortage. You can't make anything or provide any service with a house. We need to make things and provide services, but our strategy has been to rely heavily on the property sector, with the government propping up the economy with incentives to buyers - adding increased risk with a lot of marginal owners at huge risk from an increase in interet rates or alternatively, inflation.

I don't agree with you point about renters. The lack of affordability of owning a home due to inflated house prices will forever increase the proportion of renters. Properties as investment might create supply, but it also creates increasing demand. The debt burden will also drive up rental prices in the longer term. So in places like Sydney with the highest prices, people will move interstate to buy a home or move to outer western suburbs increasing the burden on infrastructure provision, such as transport and sewer & water supply, which need to be funded by taxes, rates and tolls. And the next generation of young people on average incomes in Sydney will never be able to afford a house.

I see this whole property as investment thing to be shortsighted with benefits only available to the people fortunate enought to be able to jump on board the property market during the accelerated price rise. It does not provide for a solid future for our economy. The future only holds two options. Either there will be a increase in the stuctural number of renters in our community, or there will be a crash that will burn many people, as has happened in Canada and Great Britain following similar experiences.

Your concern about land tax clearly shows how sensitive this investment approach is. The reserve bank is increasing interest rates clearly to steer investment away from property and into institutional investment. It quite clearly says so. Perhaps you know something the reserve bank doesn't.

The housing and construction sector has little to do with our Foreign account imbalances, and yours is a simplistic argument to make.

You saw what happened when Keating abolished negative gearing in '85........investment in property ground to a halt in Sydney and to a lesser extent Perth, supply of new housing tightened dramatically which reduced vacancy and rentals soared, until under immense pressure from his own party, they re-introduced negative gearing in 1987.

Keating under-estimated the impact that housing and construction have not only on the economy but on the housing market itself.

Rising house prices is a function of so many factors, to simply boil it down to investment demand is a terrible oversimplification and wrong in fact.

The recent surge in Sydney house prices has been fuelled primarily by owner occupiers, not investors. The biggest rise in house prices in Sydney has been just that......house prices. Investor activity is typically concentrated in the apartment market.

Supply of land, population growth, availability of finance, changing demographics and reduced household sizes etc all interact to stimulate demand and supply.

All of the taxes, levies and duties imposeed by state governments simply make housing affordibility worse.........a developer is forced to pass on those costs to purchasers in order to maintain their margins.

I agree with you that more investment is required in structural aspects of the economy, but to blame all of our economic woes on investment in real estate is crazy and ignores the simple fact that housing and construction is a vital contributer to our economy.

[Flying747]

i'm sure your right, my perspective is far too simplistic. thanks. i'd better tell my applied finance lecturers to look up all the work currently being published by buffed

[buffed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying747

i'm sure your right, my perspective is far too simplistic. thanks. i'd better tell my applied finance lecturers to look up all the work currently being published by buffed

we've all done economics and finance at uni, big deal. I'm simply laying down the facts.

[Flying747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed

we've all done economics and finance at uni, big deal. I'm simply laying down the facts.

oh lay 'em down man