Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

warranty?

open water ticket is locked in.

had a panic attack about doing my advanced course the other day i was half awake half dreaming that i was diving and couldn't see the top of the ocean or the seabed and started to freak out

You're meant to do that when it happens, not before. you're talking abou a blueout, all you see is water. and just out of sight below you lurks jaws in front is a giant squid and behind a school of oceanic whalers. above, nada. it's bent, but you get over it.

Openwater lets you hire gear, and get some bottom time logged before going for the advanced ticket. in reality the advanced ticket is a few more dives. you do realise that padi o/w cert requires three (3) open water dives? Ie in the ocean or harbor?

Bottom line, getting your advanced with your open water takes an extra two days and saves a few hundred bucks in the long term. Most dive vessels make little distinction between advanced and o/w divers, exceptions being vessels that hit specialist sites like wrecks or deep sites, You'll still be expected to know the same things, do the same checks etc. getting the o/w only on par with only getting an automatic license. call and change your booking to do the advanced imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I wouldn't have even met the SSI requirement as I hadn't done any specialties and have been a slack bastard with my logging- yet I was the most experienced diver on my PADI advanced course. Go figure...

I reckon I'll quite possibly switch to SSI for my further certifications- PADI (Put Another Dollar in It) are way too obviously all about bleeding their customers for the cash at every opportunity rather than providing serious quality training.

Weighing in a bit late here but couldn't agree more. I was lucky to get on teh SSI train from the get go - was by accident rather than by design. My first dive after completing OW was with people who had the PADI advanced and I looked/felt more comfortable than them.

SSI really sets you up properly

imo it's more about how good your instructor is than what letters your dive cert has on it. but tbh, most of the good instructors i know hold ssi tickets. the ssi rec dive tables are a little more conservative than the padi ones, too. But how hard is it to hand someone a reg, say "stick this in your mouth and breath normally." and push them off a boat?

big watch, little dick = padi instructor

^I did my ticket through SSI, because it's the only dive shop in town, but just comparing the two in terms of certifications, you only need something like 9 more dives after your OW to get 'Advanced' with PADI, and you need (from memory) 24 dives + 2 specialties with SSI. That speaks volumes to me. I'm more than happy to stick with SSI and be safe in the knowledge that I'm not just progressing because I'm shelling out more bones.

Had a dive early Sat morning; beautiful weather on the surface but poor vis. Got six crays though so that's better than a kick in the teeth!

pro tip. note tidal info (incoming or outgoing tide, time to next peak/low, movement {ie low of 1.2m, high of 2.2m, movement = 1m}) in your logbook. Tidal run has a huge influence on turgidity and underwater vis. Learn how your local sites shape up and with a tide chart you'll be picking the 20m+ vis days well in advance once you start seeing the patterns in your logs and the corelation between wind, tide and vis. rule of thumb is lots of tidal movement = shit vis. Odds on you had a big tide runnning when you went out, and you dived either the run in or run out and that's what made the vis so shit when it should have been shiney. 3 hours later and it could have been gin clear. UNless you had 25knot westerlies blowing all afternoon and half the night of the day leading up to your dive. That'd be the windage factor at work. The more the water colum is moving, either by tide or wind or wave action, the more sediment it stirs up off the bottom and the worse the vis gets. Slack wind and tides for a few days let this particulate crap settle back to the bottom. Note it, log it, learn it.

re padi vs ssi. you're right, ssi are a more demanding and err on the side of caution more than padi do. padi seems to be the best bet for people who will probably always dive on charters where you'll always have a glut of instructors and DM's compared to passengers. ssi is for those who, like you, dive without a puffed up work visa chaperone who's life experince with the water before coming on holidays to australia consisted of bathing in it and drinking it. seriously, met wannabe padi instructors who failed in their ambitions because they couldn't do the clothed swim/tread water/ swim part of the RD course.

that said, if you're diving with dive tour or charter companies more than with mates, padi is fine, and they also are better recognised worldwide. ssi and naui, serious diving business.

^Excellent... thanks mate!

Is there a good online resource for tides, or should I pick up a fisherman's almanac or something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by N4TE

imo it's more about how good your instructor is than what letters your dive cert has on it. but tbh, most of the good instructors i know hold ssi tickets. the ssi rec dive tables are a little more conservative than the padi ones, too. But how hard is it to hand someone a reg, say "stick this in your mouth and breath normally." and push them off a boat?

big watch, little dick = padi instructor

It also depends on where you are. There aren't many SSI instructors in Melbourne, for instance, so searching for an SSI instructor isn't going to net you the best. The best OW instructors I know are all PADI instructors, but they teach well beyond the standards. The best cave instructor I've had is an ex-PADI course director.

After everything I said earlier I still ended up doing my Divemaster's course with a PADI shop, but it hasn;t really changed my opinion on PADI themselves at all, although the instructors at the particular place I was interned with were all individually awesome.
Now planning on doing my ADAS level 1 & 2 commercial diving certs in Feb- so I'm gonna feel like a total noob again as commercial diving is way different to the recreational world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N4TE

imo it's more about how good your instructor is than what letters your dive cert has on it. but tbh, most of the good instructors i know hold ssi tickets. the ssi rec dive tables are a little more conservative than the padi ones, too. But how hard is it to hand someone a reg, say "stick this in your mouth and breath normally." and push them off a boat?

big watch, little dick = padi instructor

Fair point....I did mine through the Uni dive club and the crustaceans there were all insanely keen divers (1500+) and maybe they took it a bit more seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by korupt

^I did my ticket through SSI, because it's the only dive shop in town, but just comparing the two in terms of certifications, you only need something like 9 more dives after your OW to get 'Advanced' with PADI, and you need (from memory) 24 dives + 2 specialties with SSI. That speaks volumes to me. I'm more than happy to stick with SSI and be safe in the knowledge that I'm not just progressing because I'm shelling out more bones.

Had a dive early Sat morning; beautiful weather on the surface but poor vis. Got six crays though so that's better than a kick in the teeth!

What the fuck state are you in to be able to take crays on air?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anselm

What the fuck state are you in to be able to take crays on air?

Pretty much any state apart from NSW. I know you can definitely do it on scuba in Vic and Tas, and use scuba and snares in SA and WA. Not sure about Qld or NT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by korupt

^Excellent... thanks mate!

Is there a good online resource for tides, or should I pick up a fisherman's almanac or something?

fishermans almanac with the orange cover is the tidal one. but the almanac is australia wide and tidal variations can differ greatly in the space of 100km of coastline. Your local paper has basic wind, wave and tide info for your area (times of highs and lows and their hights,) but tides are seasonal, you'll notice that too if you start logging them or paying close attention.

http://www.tide-times.com.au/
for the onnline resource. bom oceanic post the data these guys present. Local dive shops with the resources to do it also may have vis predictions on their websites, which can be a handy resource too.

diver's toast: Here's to swimmin' under bow-legged women.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazaar

Pretty much any state apart from NSW. I know you can definitely do it on scuba in Vic and Tas, and use scuba and snares in SA and WA. Not sure about Qld or NT.

Common practice in NZ too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anselm

What the fuck state are you in to be able to take crays on air?

I'm in WA mate, not using a loop just grabbing them by hand.

N4TE: Thanks for the link, I'll have a gander. I'll start paying attention to the tides in the local rag too. I'm not much of a fisherman, and I just windsurf whenever I have the time, so I've never paid a lot of attention to it.

.

Anyone hitting up some diving this weekend? Not sure if my buddy is free, but keen as to go for a dip again. Really want to do some wreck diving with the local shop over xmas, but funds are tight atm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by korupt

I'm in WA mate, not using a loop just grabbing them by hand.

N4TE: Thanks for the link, I'll have a gander. I'll start paying attention to the tides in the local rag too. I'm not much of a fisherman, and I just windsurf whenever I have the time, so I've never paid a lot of attention to it.

cool, if you windsurf (kitesurf, sail, surf even) you probably already watch the sky to read the wind, can "read" a beach and probably also have a pretty good idea of what months suck the most for windsurfing in your area. Most of that knowledge applies to your diving. As it so happens, the suckful windsurfing months with the slack winds and bugger all swell are teh months you want to look at the tides and see when the neap tides are. ( the point of the lunar cycle when the local tides have the least movement. How much movement you get in one place to another depends on the sea floor near the coast, so some places a neap tide might move 1.2m where somewhere else up or down the coast it will be 0.3m of movement on the same tide.

If you're shore diving, swell is the biggest factor to think about when you plan a dive. not only can it create dangerous surges I'm sure you'd know all about from spearing (kiss the reef, bitch,) it also stirs up sediment by the ton on sandy beaches and can take days to settle and be carried tens of km out to sea, wrecking the closer blue water dive sites you could hit in a small boat, esp in places like perth where there's miles and miles of sandy beaches.

Light penetration is the last factor in taking a stab at what the vis will be like on any given day and it's easy, cloud makes for shitty vis and washed out colors shallower than you'll find on bright sunny days. If you use things like the bom website, tide charts, local knowledge and your own weather eye, it's pretty easy to have a fair idea of what to expect and when to get in the best dives.

But even in shit vis, a bad day underwater is better than a good day at work, ammirite?

ps. ah, craying by hand. snatching western rock lobster out from under the limestone shelves of the big blue supermarket. you're talking about my childhood, dude. used to get abalone the size of dinner plates off t hrocks at trigg once, too. you know which jetty near freo still has colonies of black lipped mussels on the pylons? I do bbq a tail for me.

gonna do a daytrip tommorow. probably just snorkle and chat up ingas though. might have one dive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by korupt

I'm in WA mate, not using a loop just grabbing them by hand.

N4TE: Thanks for the link, I'll have a gander. I'll start paying attention to the tides in the local rag too. I'm not much of a fisherman, and I just windsurf whenever I have the time, so I've never paid a lot of attention to it.

I never knew you could do that....My uncle has a secret fishing spot about 6 hours north of Perth near a settlement called Grey. There's a reef up there on a completely deserted beach. We used to just camp and free dive for crays...whole thing would have been alot easier on air

Those were the days...makes you want to cry in the middle of a London winter.

hmmm that's not far from me, but I've not heard of it. Must be near Kalbarri then?

Just south of Kalbarri, probs ~6hrs from Perth is a place with a different name that USED to be magic. Now every man and his dog (and quad-bike) have flogged it out, and it's almost a waste of time. Nothing stays secret forever I guess.

Disappointing; dive buddy is stuck in Kalbarri all weekend (lucky bastard) so will have to tee up someone else if I'm going to get a dive in. That, or drive to Kalbarri as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N4TE

But even in shit vis, a bad day underwater is better than a good day at work, ammirite?

I concur

Quote:

Originally Posted by N4TE

ps. ah, craying by hand. snatching western rock lobster out from under the limestone shelves of the big blue supermarket. you're talking about my childhood, dude. used to get abalone the size of dinner plates off t hrocks at trigg once, too. you know which jetty near freo still has colonies of black lipped mussels on the pylons? I do bbq a tail for me.

I'm actually from a little way north of Perth, so I don't know about the freo pylon! The rest is resonating with me though (pm sent)

Quote:

Originally Posted by korupt

hmmm that's not far from me, but I've not heard of it. Must be near Kalbarri then?

Just south of Kalbarri, probs ~6hrs from Perth is a place with a different name that USED to be magic. Now every man and his dog (and quad-bike) have flogged it out, and it's almost a waste of time. Nothing stays secret forever I guess.

Tis in the Nambung national park south of cervantes. Actually, now that I look at the map, theres no way it's 6 hours north of Perth...maybe it just took 6 hours to 4WD through the park.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N4TE

You're meant to do that when it happens, not before. you're talking abou a blueout, all you see is water. and just out of sight below you lurks jaws in front is a giant squid and behind a school of oceanic whalers. above, nada. it's bent, but you get over it.

Openwater lets you hire gear, and get some bottom time logged before going for the advanced ticket. in reality the advanced ticket is a few more dives. you do realise that padi o/w cert requires three (3) open water dives? Ie in the ocean or harbor?

Bottom line, getting your advanced with your open water takes an extra two days and saves a few hundred bucks in the long term. Most dive vessels make little distinction between advanced and o/w divers, exceptions being vessels that hit specialist sites like wrecks or deep sites, You'll still be expected to know the same things, do the same checks etc. getting the o/w only on par with only getting an automatic license. call and change your booking to do the advanced imo.

yeah, i do plan on getting my advanced open water ASAP. if i have time before i go away then I'll do it, but if not I may even pick it up while in Egypt. my brother in law is a RD, so the pressure is already on to get it also yes, i know about the o/w dives... I've done a few supervised dives on the barrier reef before, so i have some idea what I'm getting myself into....

p.s. thanks for the visuals, fgt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anselm

Tis in the Nambung national park south of cervantes. Actually, now that I look at the map, theres no way it's 6 hours north of Perth...maybe it just took 6 hours to 4WD through the park.

Ah. I know roughly where you mean; there's a bunch of spots all along the coast there with some shacks & not much else. Beautiful part of the world. My family used to crayfish (commercially) out of there years ago.

Mate, for a life long east coaster, it was paradise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

p.s. thanks for the visuals, fgt

It's a psychological thing. Trick is to remain functional, alert and composed through it. rarely if ever will a recreational dive include a blueout, but it happens from time to time.

You leave the boat and might have to descend 20m in >10m vis, well at about 8m to 12m, you can't see the top or the bottom, and you'll start to stripe your wetty a bit.

Stay calm. Be conscious of your breathing rate, keep taking calm, relaxed breaths. don't buy into the fight or flight instinct that will be creeping up on you, just get through that critical 4m of your descent knowing you'll be fine and any second now you'll see the bottom, or the wall of the bommy, or the shape of the wreck. Check your buddy. Flip an Ok handsign, watch for him to return it.

The most dangerous thing you can do underwater is panic. Don't. Everything's cool, just keep cruising. breath normally. You're OK. Quote some Dune to yourself if it helps. "Fear is the mindkiller. I will face my fear and let it pass through me. Fear is the mindkiller. I will FACE my fear and let it pass through me. Fear is the MINDKILLER..." etc.


Heh. I had spokeydokey lose it in deeper water on me first time I took him snorkeling. biggest fukn eyeballs I've seen in my life, poor dude. We surfaced and I talked him back in to shore, staying a few meters away from him, in front of him, swimming backwards as I told him 'keep your eyes on mine mate, just swim to me.' Next time we went out together, we glimpsed a shark together and he was cool as catshit about it. You get used to the heebie geebies. Just stay calm.

yeah, I should be right... I'm not even sure why i had that dream, it was quite strange.

also why do all the dive shops insist on doing the night dive for the AOW i don't see the point of diving at night if you're not on a reef? am i missing something (obviously i am... but what?)

Hoping cricket gets rained out tomorrow; TC Laurence is playing havoc with the weather here so fingers crossed it drenches the pitch tonight, and I can go for a dive tomorrow! Failing that I'll hit it up Sunday anyway. Need a handful of crays for xmas lunch

Quote:

Originally Posted by korupt

i might just comment that your spare reg and gauges should be neatly tucked into your BCD so they don't snag, or tangle with the environment. you also create more drag while they are not tucked in.

I did my license here in NSW and did a dive locally for the final bit..was ok.

Real awesomeness came when I went to Fiji and did about 4-5 dives there, AMAZING.

Did a night dive as well which was a really great experience, pretty freaky as well but once your down there and cruising around in the pitch black with your light it becomes more comfortable.

Did some deepish/deeper ones in Fiji too which was a bit more challenging.

All in all scuba diving is great and I always recommend it to anyone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

i might just comment that your spare reg and gauges should be neatly tucked into your BCD so they don't snag, or tangle with the environment. you also create more drag while they are not tucked in.

Quite right... That's my buddy; I'll remind him on Sunday morning you'll notice me in the other pic, hopefully looking a bit neater!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Got back from Lord Howe Island last week, went out on a couple of boat trips there for some truly fantastic diving, did two sites on the outer reef outside the lagoon, and one each off Malabar Head and the Admiralty Islands. 35m viz, 26 degree water, epic swim-throughs and tons of marine life (including some 2.5m bull rays), was fucking awesome.

<3 lord howe island... i must get back there soon

just need a new victim girlfriend to come along with me

Quote:

Originally Posted by korupt

Quite right... That's my buddy; I'll remind him on Sunday morning you'll notice me in the other pic, hopefully looking a bit neater!

it's only because the couse says it about a million fucking times!!

Went out to the coast today and bagged this little load, no need for scuba though, as the beds were only in about 2.5m of water! Going out monday for some more as we hit the bag limit (50 per person) today. Fuckload of crabs around there too, might grab some of them next time as well.

is this in NZ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

is this in NZ?

Yeah, Bay of Plenty, near Whakatane. Found a huge mussel bed about 150m off the beach, sea was pretty flat too so easy as to just swim out and load up a sackful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

it's only because the couse says it about a million fucking times!!

Tell me about it. It's funny though; he's pretty slack with his hoses, but he's such a good diver. Great buoyancy control, quick hands when grabbing crays, and a deadly shot with a gun. Good buddy to have.

We went out Sunday morning and it was fucking magic. Not many crays around anymore; seems most of them have done the bolt, but the demersal ban was lifted the other day, so might start taking the speargun out as well. Beautiful day, nice & warm, no surge, great viz, and calm seas.

I've promised myself I'll never EVER forget my camera again. Could've taken some great snaps. A stingray came right up close to us & circled us, eyeballing for a minute or two. Fucking beautiful creature. We just backed up against the ledge and gave him plenty of room, and admired the view. Then after we surfaced we cruised past a rock groyne that always has a few seals lazing about on it, and two were in the water and in a particularly playful mood. Jumping up next to the boat and waiting for fish (of which we had none ) and doing flips & barrel rolls for us. Put on a great little show. Such a shame I didn't have the camera. Never again!

In other news; the clippers in the round the world race are in town at the minute, so I wandered down on Saturday night for a geez. Spirit of Australia in the middle, flanked by Quingdao and California.

Scuba Diving is a form of underwater diving in which a diver uses a scuba set to breathe underwater for recreation, commercial or industrial reasons. Unlike early diving, which relied exclusively on air pumped from the surface, scuba divers carry their own source of breathing gas allowing them greater freedom than with an air line.

picked up a scubapro solara mask for christmas now just need to get out there.

come on 17th Jan! (well really 23rd since we're in the pool on the 17th )

I do my OW course at the start of Feb..a bit nervous but looking forward to it!

The only thing I'm concerned about is company I'm doing it through only takes me on 2 open water dives to get certified, not 3 like mentioned here in this thread and 4 like it says I should be doing in the PADI course book....should I be worried and query this?

Woohooo, I will be posting in here after getting the PADI learn to dive course for xmas. Something I have always wanted to do.

I think there is 2 beach dives + 2 boat dives and I can't wait!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hdb2

Woohooo, I will be posting in here after getting the PADI learn to dive course for xmas. Something I have always wanted to do.

I think there is 2 beach dives + 2 boat dives and I can't wait!

Yea mine includes 2 beach/shore dives and 2 boat dives too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsy

I do my OW course at the start of Feb..a bit nervous but looking forward to it!

The only thing I'm concerned about is company I'm doing it through only takes me on 2 open water dives to get certified, not 3 like mentioned here in this thread and 4 like it says I should be doing in the PADI course book....should I be worried and query this?

Be very concerned. PADI standards are a minimum of 4 open water dives to finish your OW course. Instructor manual says so and the PADI site agrees with my (a few year old) manual:

Quote:

After your confined water dives, you and the new friends you’ve made continue learning during four open water dives with your PADI Instructor at a dive site

http://www.padi.com/scuba/scuba-divi...lt.aspx#godive

Ask them how they're going to fulfill all requirements given this. If they're not adhering to standards then your c-card isn't valid, not to mention the fact that their insurance is invalid too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gypsy

I do my OW course at the start of Feb..a bit nervous but looking forward to it!

The only thing I'm concerned about is company I'm doing it through only takes me on 2 open water dives to get certified, not 3 like mentioned here in this thread and 4 like it says I should be doing in the PADI course book....should I be worried and query this?

keep in mind you do 2 dives a day.... the course is e-learning, then 3 days, 1 in the pool and 2 days of 2 open water dives i.e. 4 open water dives and whatever you do in the pool.

i fucking own at these RDP's didn't get a single question wrong the entire course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

i fucking own at these RDP's didn't get a single question wrong the entire course.

Shame you'll probably never use them outside of a classroom!

(only time I've used RDPs is when working as a Divemaster working out the pressure groups for the groups we were guiding- in practice most individual divers just dive off their computers all the time nowadays)

yeah, hence the you get to the end of the course in using it, then they just tell you that everyone dives with a computer... fail

so considering I'll be doing 90% of my diving while on holidays, is there any need to buy gear other than a good mask?

or should i wait until I've... you know... done some diving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

yeah, hence the you get to the end of the course in using it, then they just tell you that everyone dives with a computer... fail

so considering I'll be doing 90% of my diving while on holidays, is there any need to buy gear other than a good mask?

or should i wait until I've... you know... done some diving.

Wait until you've done some diving, and talked to some people about what you want to buy (other than shops, that is). If all the diving you're planning on doing is on holidays my suggested list, in order of importance, would be:

mask (snorkel if you want)
computer
Regs
BCD

maybe booties (maybe it's a personal thing, but if I'm wearing fins that need booties, I'd rather wear my own).

Fins are a pain in the ass to travel with, and unless you're doing serious diving don't matter as much. Wetsuit is pointless if you're travelling to places that might vary between 15 and 35 degrees.

boom.

good answer. (for the first answer)


have mask and snorkel already which i'll be flying with to Egypt.

have all but locked in the advanced in egypt as well. waste? kinda hard, but do'able to fit advanved + a few dives in before i leave..... should i push it?