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Who thinks vinyl is dead... or dying a slow painful death?

View Poll Results: Is vinyl dead.. or dying a slow painful death?
Yes vinyl is dead 11 4.44%
Vinyl isnt dead yet.. but it soon will be 47 18.95%
Vinyl will still be used for a while yet 77 31.05%
Vinyl will never die 113 45.56%
Voters: 248. You may not vote on this poll

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fuk the pedantry over BPMs .... ride the pitch you slack fukkers
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I think there are lots of heads in sand in this thread. Vinyl is dying, get over it and move on.
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I think the seemingly unavoidable gravitation towards "Trusted Computing" - http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html - makes Vinyl seem much more desirable to me again.

I'm the first to admit that laptop DJing - be that Ableton, Searto, whatever - and CD djing technology is just so much more versatile than straight up vinyl nowadays.

But if the world of media sold in digital format goes the way it is looking like doing then I'll probably try and buy on vinyl in preference. I'm sure I'll record the contents to a digital format, to take advantage of digital DJing methods. But I don't want some corporate conglomerate restricting my legitimate activities using music I have actually purchased.

Digital DJing methods might be killing vinyl, but DRM and TC might win back some support for the old black plastic. God I hope so.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaunR

I think there are lots of heads in sand in this thread. Vinyl is dying, get over it and move on.

Vinyl isn't something you just "get over" - Its more like something you stop being able to afford so you go and post jaded taunts on a forum in hopes that you’ll feel better about not being able to spin the real deal.

Something like that anyway
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Quote:

Originally Posted by FH_Jimbob

Vinyl isn't something you just "get over" - Its more like something you stop being able to afford so you go and post jaded taunts on a forum in hopes that you’ll feel better about not being able to spin the real deal.

Something like that anyway

9 out of 10 DJ's I talk to still prefer vinyl over CD (even if the cost factor has won them over...)

comments like the above are just arrogant and often unjustified... end of story

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^^^ Me? arrogant? never :blush:

You talkin about me or ShaunR? Cause i'm backin vinyl here. Sif i would play anythin but the lamest commercial on CD...

Vinyl Whores FTW. End of story
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Quote:

Originally Posted by FH_Jimbob

^^^ Me? arrogant? never :blush:

You talkin about me or ShaunR? Cause i'm backin vinyl here. Sif i would play anythin but the lamest commercial on CD...

Vinyl Whores FTW. End of story

dude... I wasn't referring to you

search the trance/hard dance forum for the word "purchases" and have browse through the results

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Quote:

Originally Posted by plan-b


search the trance/hard dance forum


NEVER!
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do eeeeet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gruso View Post

Just to clarify where the line is drawn:

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  • Starting a new joke train on them when they're not around: Please don't

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Not bad for an old argument resurrected.. again!! I realise the debate is just meant for harmless passing-the-time but personally, each to their own.

I mean, who honestly (needs) to give a toss about what format the fantastic tunes are coming from, as long as they're being played in the first place? It's kinda like asking "Should quality DJ's use their real names or made-up psuedonyms?"

Who cares? All that should really matter is that we are given the opportunity to listen and enjoy some awesome M.U.S.I.C.
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I love the irony when you hear people who listen to the most technologically advanced music in the world claiming that the only way to enjoy it is on an outdated media. I aint anti-vinyl or anti-any media, really. If there's a tune that I want I would rather buy it on some kind of thing that I can hold in my hand, preferably with a case or sleeve, some label art, artist credits etc. But if I have to choose to buy an EP from the UK or download for a fraction ofthe price I'm gonna by the download.

Having said that, I was attracted to a limited edition, clear vinyl double 12 pack on Juno today (Convextion - Miranda Remixes) I'd like it but I aint forkin' 18 UK pounds + delivery for it, limited edition, collectors blah blah blah.

Don't get me wrong, I'm keeping my 1210 (yep, thats now singlular, not keeping 2 of 'em) because there is some wicked stuff thats only out on Vinyl; Jamaican 45s for one.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by richcur

Not bad for an old argument resurrected.. again!! I realise the debate is just meant for harmless passing-the-time but personally, each to their own.

I mean, who honestly (needs) to give a toss about what format the fantastic tunes are coming from, as long as they're being played in the first place? It's kinda like asking "Should quality DJ's use their real names or made-up psuedonyms?"

Who cares? All that should really matter is that we are given the opportunity to listen and enjoy some awesome M.U.S.I.C.

definately Rich I'm not anti CD players by any means... but to say either format's not alive is just arrogant

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Just to clarify where the line is drawn:

  • Ragging on someone when they're actively posting and pretty much asking for it: OK
  • Starting a new joke train on them when they're not around: Please don't

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Started using vinyl, but way too expensive...

CDs last longer, they don't degrade, and there's so much you can do on a cdj1000 than a 1200mk5G.

Sure bottom end frequency below a certain range becomes mono - so it does sound warmer. And the pitch controllers on the 1200s shiiiiiiiiiiit all over any cdj.

But the advent of mp3s have shown that punters and the like don't give a fuck about sound quality. I used to work for a major record label, at a time when dvd-audio was being marketed around when mp3s were introduced - because of which, dvd-audio became unpopular!

If ever i find a track that i really like, i'll buy a copy on vinyl for romantic reasons - nothing turns a girl more than flipping a piece of vinyl between open hands, and hoopla-ing it on a 1200 =P

In the end, dance music is becoming sooooo disposable, that i really get pissed when i buy a tune, play it 3 times, and never again.

Vinyl is not dead, but will be 1 day! Besides, who really gives a shit what u play on...

It's what u play, and how u play it!

I'm sure 1 day cdjs will be laughed upon - when cprs eventually take over!

Last edited by judgeMental: 20-Mar-07 at 04:54pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by judgeMental



In the end, dance music is becoming sooooo disposable, that i really get pissed when i buy a tune, play it 3 times, and never again.




ahhhhh ... now you see, this is an issue i have with people complaining about the price of music.

If that's all your doing with it (playing it out 3 times then relegating it to the back of the box) ... then screw you ... pay the price for the piece of dancefloor candy ... but i buy my music because it's music i like and want to keep


Some people's music is a disposable commodity ... but i tend to think i buy music for quite the contrary reason and fail to see why you would want to otherwise ... apart from as a commercial DJ being emplyed to do so ... then you get most of your money back anyways ... or if you're even clueyer you'll be getting promos copies of the disposable dross GIVEN to you ..


cost also comes down to people not wanting to compromise their awesome lifestyle ... why spend that money on vinyl when i can get a pair of shit hot new jeans/shoes/hat etc etc etc wot eva. ??!?! Lifestyle wins out over the cost of music all too often i believe ... sad huh


oh ... and a word to the absolutists at either end of the scale on the death of vinyl. It clearly isn't going to be a viable performance medium forever ... but it's hardly on the fast track to being obsolete ... the poll results are enough to give you confirmation that vinyl is still a much loved medium that has very valid practical (and creative) reasons for being so.

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its funny how the same people that whinge about the price of vinyl go out and buy 400 dollar designer jeans.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

oh ... and a word to the absolutists at either end of the scale on the death of vinyl. It clearly isn't going to be a viable performance medium forever ... but it's hardly on the fast track to being obsolete ... the poll results are enough to give you confirmation that vinyl is still a much loved medium that has very valid practical (and creative) reasons for being so.

You forgot sentimental

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and after all that is said and done technic 1200's r still selling for around $600 second hand. Awesome
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

If that's all your doing with it (playing it out 3 times then relegating it to the back of the box) ... then screw you ... pay the price for the piece of dancefloor candy ... but i buy my music because it's music i like and want to keep

Hehehe, i thought that comment would arouse debate...

There are some tracks i absolutely love, and it's those tracks that are "relegated" to the back of the box cause i wanna preserve its longevity. There's some tracks i love, and then i don't... and those tracks don't even make it to the box.

It's more a generalisation re: the longevity of music being produced today...

So am i to believe that EVERYTHING you have bought you will keep?

If so, congratulations. Maybe i get bored of music to quickly - or maybe i don't like to hoard stuff!

In any case, i never said i play tracks 3 times and then throw it away! I just said that it happens - and too me, more often than not. Am i over critical... well obviously!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

... confirmation that vinyl is still a much loved medium that has very valid practical (and creative) reasons for being so.

Practical and creative compared to???

WTF?
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^ Compared to nothing. Each medium has practical features and creative possibilities which are valid in its own right.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by judgeMental


It's more a generalisation re: the longevity of music being produced today...

So am i to believe that EVERYTHING you have bought you will keep?


I'd say it's more a generalisations about the longevity of the music being produced that you are buying ... not music in general


I've only sold a handful of CD to cash convertors ... and they weren't even CDs i purchased.

I've not sold one piece of vinyl i've bought yet ... and that's 17 years or so of buying

I don't buy a lot ... but i make sure what i buy i damn well like ... what's the point otherwise ???


as for the 2nd point ... what Gruso said i would agree with, but i'd add the following ...

If you can look at a turntable and a record as an instrument and not just something that plays someone else's tunes, then the creative possibilities are fantastic.

vinyl is equally as practical as CDs in all its facets ... it's just some weaklings whinge about carrying records and/or can't keep them clean ... let's face it, what they really need is a GF or more groupies .
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Last edited by Funkedub: 20-Mar-07 at 06:28pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

I'd say it's more a generalisations about the longevity of the music being produced that you are buying ... not music in general


I've only sold a handful of CD to cash convertors ... and they weren't even CDs i purchased.

I've not sold one piece of vinyl i've bought yet ... and that's 17 years or so of buying

I don't buy a lot ... but i make sure what i buy i damn well like ... what's the point otherwise ???


as for the 2nd point ... what Gruso said i would agree with, but i'd add the following ...

If you can look at a turntable and a record as an instrument and not just something that plays someone else's tunes, then the creative possibilities are fantastic.

vinly is equally as practical as CDs in all its facets ... it's just some weaklings whinge about carrying records and/or can't keep them clean ... let's face it, what they really need is a GF or more groupies .

oh ffs funke... it's VINYL

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get over plan-b

It's a TYPO


want to spell check all my posts for me ???
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

get over plan-b

It's a TYPO


want to spell check all my posts for me ???

www.iespell.com

tbh I'm just glad you didn't spell it vynil or pluralise it as vinyls

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

vinly is equally as practical as CDs in all its facets ... it's just some weaklings whinge about carrying records and/or can't keep them clean ... let's face it, what they really need is a GF or more groupies .

actually some of us weaklings haved suffered spinal injuries of some sort thoughout our lives and are often walking 2+ kms to gigs

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Just to clarify where the line is drawn:

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  • Starting a new joke train on them when they're not around: Please don't

Last edited by plan-b: 20-Mar-07 at 06:37pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by plan-b

www.iespell.com

IE, lol.

Personally I think that the days of IE are numbered, and within five years all DJs will be using Firefox to have this argument.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gruso

IE, lol.

Personally I think that the days of IE are numbered, and within five years all DJs will be using Firefox to have this argument.

http://spellbound.sourceforge.net/

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Firefox has spell checking built in.

It still can't count the BPMs on me vinyls though.
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less grammar pedantry more vitriol as to why digital must reign supreme !!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gruso

Firefox has spell checking built in.

I suspected it did... it's ugly and stupid interface and skins leave me with IE at work and Opera at home though...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by plan-b

9 out of 10 DJ's I talk to still prefer vinyl over CD (even if the cost factor has won them over...)

comments like the above are just arrogant and often unjustified... end of story

Totally agree.. i much prefer vinyl too.

But i dont really think thats is the issue.

id be interested to hear how many of those 10 Djs actually play vinyl in their sets frequently. If i could afford it i would still buy vinyl without a doubt.

There is definitely still a place in clubs today for 1200s.. they make awesome CD racks!

JOKES ppl.
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this is a farqin massive thread and there aint no way im gonna read all of it any time soon, but does anybody actually know what it costs to produce vinyl? I dont, but im wondering if there is any room for vinyl to decrease in price?? I dare say it will be the producer that loses out
but perhaps this might be a saving grace/extension on vinyls apparent decline...
As DJ's we can only hope
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Quote:

Originally Posted by wretchin

this is a farqin massive thread and there aint no way im gonna read all of it any time soon, but does anybody actually know what it costs to produce vinyl? I dont, but im wondering if there is any room for vinyl to decrease in price?? I dare say it will be the producer that loses out
but perhaps this might be a saving grace/extension on vinyls apparent decline...
As DJ's we can only hope

Vinyl release costs about $4,000 to do (not sure how many pressings that includes though...) it's not likely to come down in price, pressing machines (& spare parts) (these aren't the same as the ones vestax/others manufacture) haven't been made since the 70's...

Don't quote me on this but I think from memory with a vinyl sale, 20% back goes to the producer (and rest to the label), whereas it's about 50% each goes to the producer/label for a digital sale... the profit works out roughly the same either way, as there's no pressing/artwork costs associated with digital releases etc...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Buey

Totally agree.. i much prefer vinyl too.

But i dont really think thats is the issue.

id be interested to hear how many of those 10 Djs actually play vinyl in their sets frequently. If i could afford it i would still buy vinyl without a doubt.


See this post here for details
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Buey

id be interested to hear how many of those 10 Djs actually play vinyl in their sets frequently. If i could afford it i would still buy vinyl without a doubt.

Cost isn't so much an issue... It's practicality more than anything else.. travelling with vinyl can be an absolute nightmare... travelling with CD's means carry on luggage and no more lost record boxes/bags...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

ahhhhh ... now you see, this is an issue i have with people complaining about the price of music.

If that's all your doing with it (playing it out 3 times then relegating it to the back of the box) ... then screw you ... pay the price for the piece of dancefloor candy ... but i buy my music because it's music i like and want to keep


Some people's music is a disposable commodity ... but i tend to think i buy music for quite the contrary reason and fail to see why you would want to otherwise ... apart from as a commercial DJ being emplyed to do so ... then you get most of your money back anyways ... or if you're even clueyer you'll be getting promos copies of the disposable dross GIVEN to you ..


cost also comes down to people not wanting to compromise their awesome lifestyle ... why spend that money on vinyl when i can get a pair of shit hot new jeans/shoes/hat etc etc etc wot eva. ??!?! Lifestyle wins out over the cost of music all too often i believe ... sad huh


oh ... and a word to the absolutists at either end of the scale on the death of vinyl. It clearly isn't going to be a viable performance medium forever ... but it's hardly on the fast track to being obsolete ... the poll results are enough to give you confirmation that vinyl is still a much loved medium that has very valid practical (and creative) reasons for being so.

hahaha yes the poll results do indicate that vinyl is a much loved medium.. but thats about it..and we already knew that anyway. In my opinion, the poll results show that a hell of a lot of people have a serious case of denial and 'have their head in the sand' as another post mentioned. But thats not necessarily a bad thing.. i like vinyl purists. Their passion for the medium and dance music in general is refreshing.

However in terms of this argument (which was intended to be about whether vinyl, as a mainstream DJ medium, is dying) im a realist. Vinyl isnt dying because it isnt loved.. it IS loved.. thats undisputed. Ive said a million times i love it to death.. and i still cry when i look at pics of my 1210m5gs which i had to sell.

Vinyl is dying because its too expensive, too big and heavy as plan b mentioned, and its too inaccessible compared to its digital descendant. And like it or not.. $'s make the world go round. And there aint the money in vinyl that there used to be. Of course it will still be bought by collectors such as yourself, but as a mainstream DJing medium, its glory days are over.

And i think its a bit of a generalisation to insinuate that people are not willing to spend money on vinyl when they can get a pair of shit hot new jeans/shoes/hat etc. Maybe for a select few that DJ for the sake of the image. But just because you cant afford to spend money on vinyl doesnt make you any less hard core. I cant afford to buy vinyl, but im equally as passionate about music as you. I just realise that im in my early 20s, im not going to be the next Desyn Masiello (), and I need to start prioritising and putting my money towards appreciating assets such as property.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by plan-b

Cost isn't so much an issue... It's practicality more than anything else.. travelling with vinyl can be an absolute nightmare... travelling with CD's means carry on luggage and no more lost record boxes/bags...

Yeah true.. i cant imagine what a bitch it was for guys like Armin who play mega sets touring the globe in the 90s with a million records!! Man you would cry if your luggage got lost. Probably was carrying around so many irreplaceable gems.

Although with CDs you are not safe.. desyn said in one of his videos that when he was in an airport once, someone ran their trolley into his and smashed 15 of his cds. So he spent the first 2 hours of his set that night burning replacements.. that would be fuxored.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Buey

like it or not.. $'s make the world go round. And there aint the money in vinyl that there used to be.

stats ?

references?




Quote:

Originally Posted by Buey

I need to start prioritising and putting my money towards appreciating assets such as property.


records are assets too


i'm reasonabley confidant i'll get more for my vinyl collection in 10 years than most people would get for their HD full of MP3s



I don't think it's a case of having ones head buried in the sand ... more like just not so quick and keen to jump on the next technological bandwagon


vinyl is slowly getting to be a very old man that needs to retire ... but he's still got a lot of life in him yet and i'm going to work him while he's still standing
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Buey

Yeah true.. i cant imagine what a bitch it was for guys like Armin who play mega sets touring the globe in the 90s with a million records!! Man you would cry if your luggage got lost. Probably was carrying around so many irreplaceable gems.

Although with CDs you are not safe.. desyn said in one of his videos that when he was in an airport once, someone ran their trolley into his and smashed 15 of his cds. So he spent the first 2 hours of his set that night burning replacements.. that would be fuxored.

better to be able to spend two hours burning CD's than stressing for days, maybe weeks on end about whether or not you're gonna get your records back...

I think it is dying... slowly, but it's still got a long life left in it yet... Most record stores I buy from still get regular shipments of vinyl in...

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Originally Posted by Gruso View Post

Just to clarify where the line is drawn:

  • Ragging on someone when they're actively posting and pretty much asking for it: OK
  • Starting a new joke train on them when they're not around: Please don't

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

i'm reasonabley confidant i'll get more for my vinyl collection in 10 years than most people would get for their HD full of MP3s

I'm sure I'll get a better return for my invest portfolio in 10 years than most people would get for their record collections...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gruso View Post

Just to clarify where the line is drawn:

  • Ragging on someone when they're actively posting and pretty much asking for it: OK
  • Starting a new joke train on them when they're not around: Please don't

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

I'd say it's more a generalisations about the longevity of the music being produced that you are buying ... not music in general

Good point, though i'm a lot more careful of what i buy these days. That being said, i still buy songs that sometimes looses it's appeal shortly after i buy them, which is why i usually listen to samples for a month or more before i commit on buying tracks...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

I don't buy a lot ... but i make sure what i buy i damn well like ... what's the point otherwise ???

i'm reasonabley confidant i'll get more for my vinyl collection in 10 years than most people would get for their HD full of MP3s

Not really an arguement, considering u wouldn't sell your collection in te first place

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

vinyl is equally as practical as CDs in all its facets ... it's just some weaklings whinge about carrying records and/or can't keep them clean ... let's face it, what they really need is a GF or more groupies .

OK, so let's start a new poll then... how many djs using cdjs have gone to vinyl beacause it's "more" practical? And how is it that using vinyl is "more" creative (with the exception of scratching, which u can do on a cdj as well)? wiith cdjs 1000s, u get loops, reverse switch, and a master tempo button (i.e. master tempo button + pitch slowed to - 100% = demonic time strecthing!)

Pfft!

But let me just say, i love vinyl!

I love the feel of vinyl, not to mention the sound of it - and don't get me started on my hate of mp3s. In fact, whenever i buy a track online, i always buy wavs. Try recording a set mixing vinyl and mp3s - the waveform of the vinyl appears to "breathe" a lot better, whereas the mp3s are heavily compressed.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by plan-b

I'm sure I'll get a better return for my invest portfolio in 10 years than most people would get for their record collections...




i'm sure you shall ... i'd be pretty pissed off if it didn't
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i started buying records when digital became the norm

but i mean everytime i go to record stores they're paked

what im thinking now is those stores must have been paked to the brim when djs only used vinyl, and if the stores ares till making a profit(they must be if there stil open) the stores must have been making a killing back then.
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this sentiment that obviously people are making money because they are open or running or have some sort of longevity is shit. Most operate a minimum profit to keep going, which is why a lot have closed down.

there have been a lot of dedicated people, who have run at major losses to keep these stores open.

support you independant stores because they are the ones that open up some sort of diversity of music within your city.

when these stores are making a couple of bucks off each unit it doesnt mean if they are packed they are making a killing

when there is less music stores it means that the choice of music available is less and therefore the stores only purchase more commercial music which is guarenteed to sell, just to keep their buisness open. therefore music becomes generic and boring.
something
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Music stores are dying a slow painful death too. I can get all the music i want off the internet, i don't have to wait for some assclown to finish fapping off in the listening booth, i can get it delivered straight to my door, i don't need to try rush in on Wednesday delivery to get stuff before everyone else snaps it up, whatever... I used to love browsing music stores but now it's just a poor substitute.
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so dead its starting to smell....like really really bad
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my rant of that issue was fueled but that idea in general, we hear those setiments about parties we throw and it un-nerves our crew. /official end rant

regarding records, i am about to go out and buy my first lot of wavs this week.
its a bit unnerving.

playing vinyl has been so much a part of life, i really dont see how poeple can just go to friends houses and play tunes any more. we have to cart around our external harddrives and play off each others interfaces.

no fun

why cant some billionaire open up a vinyl pressing plant and cut everything down cheap for the good of the scene.
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if only all teh old jazz and funkheads would take to digital and then i could have all their swt swt collections of og pressings and whatnot.

just buy vinyl then rip tat shit to high grade mp3'z and burn it to a cd and then you have both digital and analogue and you aint a sucker. vinyl has that killer low end warmth though. i love teh low end.
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To those who think that their Vinyl will be worth a bit in future. There's gonna be a handful that maybe worth 5 times what they cost, which is gonna be what, $100ea.? And not until your kids are your age.
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Im actually surprised vinyl has lasted this long.

I remember when i first got into DJing, before i knew anything about it, i was blown away when i found out that DJs still played vinyl. I remember thinking.. errr... vinyl... didnt that go down with the disco era?
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