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nackas +

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Club DJing
Hey guys,

I recently scored a gig at a local club, and was wondering about piracy laws and stuff like that. Currently I purchase my music from BeatPort and Juno, and burn to a CD. But I've been told that you MUST own the physical CD form to legally play the track. I'm just curious as to what other people's views are on this?
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Well you've bought the track so you can play it right? as long as you can prove that you've bought it then your fine... well thats what i've heard.
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yeah you need to be able to prove it.

keep the receipts.
or just play vinyl
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You can steal vinyl to..
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if u buy the choons, and the venue pays money to apra to publically broadcast the music, should be all bases covered
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Including 3rd?
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whats the consequences if you didnt pay for your tracks? does APRA really mystery shop clubs?
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yes
step on my cubes.
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the earth will open up underneath you and swallow you whole if you can't prove every tracks in your collection is legit*


*may or may not happen
For all of your musical needs*

funkedub dot com



*musical needs most likely not met
hoppuspears +

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highly unlikely you will be caught. But as long as you have downloaded it leggaly you should be alrite.
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Yeah i found that out recently ... if it's a well known club with a good rep, then they will get shitty at you.
However, if you get all the receipts, put em' on a flash drive digitally and keep them at the back of your CD wallet, they bitch you say "shove this up your stocking" she checks em' out, world keeps on spinnin'
dont' keep any illegal choons in there at all, cuase if you get the bitch or bloke on a power trip they'll check every single tune to try nab you. double check, you dont' want to get a massive fine.
Congrats on the gig!
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how often do clubs do checks realistically.
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The club wont check it will be APRA
I'll be back...
hoppuspears +

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How often to apra have people walking around the city at 2 am in the morning? Anyone here been checked.
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I in no way condone illegal downloading, it's a filthy habit, but good luck to them if they show up and try to verify every MP3 in my collection!

300 CD's X 10 tracks per CD = a big fucking job!!!
I'll be back...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by hoppuspears

How often to apra have people walking around the city at 2 am in the morning? Anyone here been checked.

you keep asking a lot of questions about this ... playing pirated music eh ?
For all of your musical needs*

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i can't even remember beatport or djdownload ever offering a receipt with all the tracks u brought. So what about people that have brought approximately a few hundred tracks and have no receipts b4 all this keeping the receipts business?
Soundcloud
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yeh where do you get these receipts from?

When i buy i get a email, and thats all, is that the receipt?
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Yes, it shows what you have purchased and the price of each item just like a receipt.. also if they try to F u over go on beatport and it shows u all the songs you have downloaded in your library... so they should have fun going through that.
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what about free downloads? such as the ones offered here at ITM in every weekly newsletter? you dont get any receipt for them so how can you prove that you got them legitimately?
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I wouldn't want to play them anyway because there like 128kb and I prefer 320kb or WAV for better sound quality.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpy

I wouldn't want to play them anyway because there like 128kb and I prefer 320kb or WAV for better sound quality.

Depending on the situation there wont be any difference. The reality is in 90%+ of PAs the mixer, crossover, cables amp - not to mention the room itseld - make far more difference that the gap between an MP3 and Wave.

I'll challenge anyone here to tell the difference between the two types in a home listening environment, let alone a club....
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nackas...You and anyone that is not sure about the copyright laws should read this.

The Australian Record Industry Association (ARIA)
has set up Music Industry Piracy Investigations (MIPI)
as a policing body to target music copyright infringements Australia wide.

Michael Speck, General Manager of MIPI says, "Our surveillance programs run 7x days a week and investigators work a 24x hour roster period. This means we get to cover a lot of ground. We average an arrest every two weeks. By way of example, we currently have over 134 DJs, Jukebox operators and venues (and their operators) in the process of being prosecuted civilly. A further 50 or more Dj's are awaiting criminal prosecution from all over Australia. Over 250 notices have been served in the past year for MP3 piracy alone."

"Apart from issuing fines, prosecutors can confiscate all the equipment involved (eg: CD Players, Amps, Speakers, Whole Computers etc) for destruction. Even if you are lucky enough to convince a court that you should get some equipment back, you can be sure that it will have been seized for so long that it is out of fashion or superseded!"

"At any given time, MIPI is able to identify current or emerging trends in infringing behaviour. This is one of the things that make us so successful. At present there is a real problem with operators and venues using hard drives to play illegally copied music and, no matter which way you view it, this is illegal. Over the years, our investigators have heard every conceivable excuse for this form of piracy."

"Yes, using hard drives to play copied music without the authorisation of the copyright owner is piracy, no matter what your explanation. The sheer size of the problem here has resulted in MIPI adopting newer approaches to piracy."

"We recently undertook undercover sting operations targeting Dj's, Clubs, Venues and some jukebox operators in Melbourne and Perth, we will be taking the operation on the road again real soon. So put simply, you will never know if your customer is just that, or the anti-piracy investigation unit coming for you."

In closing Michael Speck says, "Copyright is what gives us all our business or work. Without it you don’t have the ‘music business’. So if you know of someone ripping off music let us know! Our email address is mspeck@mipi.com.au , We hope to hear from you real soon!"



So there you have it, if you have copied music onto hard drive without permission, sooner or later you will be caught and fined...

Some sites to view on copyright laws and music licences etc are here:
www.apra.com.au , http://www.ppca.com.au , www.copyright.org.au



for more info to be legal and not go to jail, read the MIPI website ASAP

http://www.mipi.com.au

^read the whole site as if you miss anything and get CAUGHT (they dont care as long as someone gets caught) then dont come online and cry that they have taken all your gear and equipment including music and computers...

I firmly believe that DJ's should be setting the highest standard for LEGALLY downloading music for people to start doing it themselves....

The following is from www.copyright.org.au under the DJ section page 1....

Key points

• If you want to make or sell mixes or remixes which include recordings and pieces written by other people,
you will usually need to get copyright clearances from the relevant publishers and record companies.

• If you want to play “in public”, you will generally need to be covered by both an APRA licence and, in most
cases, a licence from PPCA.

What types of copyright material do DJs usually have to think about?

DJs generally have three different types of copyright to think about:

• copyright in music;

• copyright in lyrics; and

• copyright in sound recordings.

If you start putting out CDs or video clips, you will also have to think about other types of copyright material,
such as “artistic works” (including logos, drawings or photos used on CD covers) and “cinematograph films” (such
as the footage and sounds in a video clip).
In this information sheet we only talk about the copyrights in music, lyrics and recordings. Our other information
sheets talk about copyright in these other types of things. See, for example, the information sheets Films, and artworks...

So there you have it...As long its a legit tune...you will not have a problem playing it in a club as long as they have the applicable licence...

When you start doing bigger gigs like warehouse parties and so forth...make sure you know what your getting into...

Last edited by Master Mischief: 16-Jan-08 at 07:54am

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mischief


I'll challenge anyone here to tell the difference between the two types in a home listening environment


i'd take that challenge
For all of your musical needs*

funkedub dot com



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hoppuspears +

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

you keep asking a lot of questions about this ... playing pirated music eh ?

hey man i just play in my bedroom atm no gigs as of yet. but yes i do have some pirated and some legit tracks. my pirated ones i couldnt get off beatport eg. pryda-shadows which is one my fav tracks. But yeh if i ever get a club gig ill make sure to chuck all the pirated music out of my cd case
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mischief

Depending on the situation there wont be any difference. The reality is in 90%+ of PAs the mixer, crossover, cables amp - not to mention the room itseld - make far more difference that the gap between an MP3 and Wave.

I'll challenge anyone here to tell the difference between the two types in a home listening environment, let alone a club....

Bullshit!!! Maybe the difference between 320 and WAV would be hard to pick, but 128 is terrible!!! You post a blind test right now and I think I could pick it.
I'll be back...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

i'd take that challenge

x 2
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mischief

Depending on the situation there wont be any difference. The reality is in 90%+ of PAs the mixer, crossover, cables amp - not to mention the room itseld - make far more difference that the gap between an MP3 and Wave.

I'll challenge anyone here to tell the difference between the two types in a home listening environment, let alone a club....

wow... you either haven't given this a go or you need a new HIFI
Andaz

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i used to think 128kb was good quality.
then i got a decent sound system, and started downloading at 320.
BIG DIFFERENCE
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pfffft, 320 is fine! you really can't notice a difference between 320 and wav IMO. Anything much below 320 is a different story however.

I mean companies like Beatport wouldn't offer 320 mp3s unless they were of a good enough quality.
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[quote=Master Mischief]


So there you have it...As long its a legit tune...you will not have a problem playing it in a club as long as they have the applicable licence...
[quote]

a highly informative thread - so does the venue hold this licence or do Djs need one

also, im starting to carry more Cds to save my back from humping round vinyl, if i have a digital copy of a vinyl record i legitamtely have at home with me on CD, will i be in trouble for playing the digital version out? obviously i may have to show them the vinyl copy but that wouldnt be a drama
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The DJ only needs a licence if the club doesn't have one. i.e. its your responsibility to play in licenced venues

re:mp3 vs wav - http://www.inthemix.com.au/forum/sho...d.php?t=215550
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpy

I wouldn't want to play them anyway because there like 128kb and I prefer 320kb or WAV for better sound quality.

Ah...I was refering to the difference between .mp3 files and .wav files in my previous post if you guys had read it properly. So you can all keep your knickers on...

(Actually, in reading how I wrote in realation to how bumpy wrote his. I can now see where I went wrong. I only read the the last bit....Yes there is a notable difference between 128kp and 320kp...that's common knowledge I thought...like duh...)

What I'm trying to point out is there is no difference between 320kp mp3 file and wav file...which is...now I look at...is exactly what bumpy said in the first place. Sorry for the confusion guys...my bad(goes off and puts a sock in mouth whilst hitting head against wall)...

The challenge is still open as far as the .mp3 VS .wav files thing is concerned...

Last edited by Master Mischief: 16-Jan-08 at 12:06pm

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Thanks for the awesome replies. Very very informative.
I've actually written on each CD where I purchased the track from,
so if the time comes to get audited.. I know exactly where my tracks are from.
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Its wierd. technically they would need to listen to every track and identify it other wise you could just write on your track lables 1 song per cd when there could be 1 legit song and 10 pirated but the pirated wasnt labled.
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so has anyone here actually been audited?
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i was under the impression that if you have muliple copies of a song (like one on cd, one on pc and one on external HDD), that you must pay for each copy (although the law may have been changed recently). Like if you buy a cd and rip it to your PC, then that's piracy.

i'm also interest to see how many people have actually been audited, and exactly do they do
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mischief

Ah...I was refering to the difference between .mp3 files and .wav files in my previous post if you guys had read it properly. So you can all keep your knickers on...

(Actually, in reading how I wrote in realation to how bumpy wrote his. I can now see where I went wrong. I only read the the last bit....Yes there is a notable difference between 128kp and 320kp...that's common knowledge I thought...like duh...)

What I'm trying to point out is there is no difference between 320kp mp3 file and wav file...which is...now I look at...is exactly what bumpy said in the first place. Sorry for the confusion guys...my bad(goes off and puts a sock in mouth whilst hitting head against wall)...

The challenge is still open as far as the .mp3 VS .wav files thing is concerned...

even the 320 kps mp3s sound different from WAVs...especially when you play them together..trim can only do so much, the bass in mp3, the high and everything is never the same with WAV...ive learned to avoid mixing a WAV track into a mp3 track...even though they are played at the same volume..
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Mischief

I firmly believe that DJ's should be setting the highest standard for LEGALLY downloading music for people to start doing it themselves....

Full length production tracks for DJing with, ABSOLUTELY!

But...what happens when they ask you to prove you own what you're playing and investigate you? Show me one DJ who hasn't got some (technically illegal) downloaded DJ set from somewhere or other...you most likely can't. Would this kind of downloaded music be enough for them to screw you over?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by gamblore

Bullshit!!! Maybe the difference between 320 and WAV would be hard to pick, but 128 is terrible!!! You post a blind test right now and I think I could pick it.

True.. Listening on an Ipod you can even tell... the layers are just not there on 128kb/s... 320kb/s has a much clearer acoustic sound and deeper less tinny bass to put it simply.
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Btw whats the fines when you caught on the spot? Does quantity matter or is it like the old coles motto when a little kid pockets a mars bar "Its not how much its worth, its the principle" sorta thang lol?
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Im sorta sure its like 10's of thousands. Like rediculas. On that line if i was ever investigated i would probably punch them in the face and run. Throw my music away which was illegal. Admit to having a mental anger problem for being disturbed. Then cop the assualt charge and then let them check my legit music.


Like how high up is apra can they like arrest u or what?
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^No legal powers. They do all their work through lawyers with letters of demand or bring cops to lay charges
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Quote:

Originally Posted by hoppuspears

On that line if i was ever investigated i would probably punch them in the face and run.

I'm with you ;-) haha
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Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebrains69

^No legal powers. They do all their work through lawyers with letters of demand or bring cops to lay charges

oh mad so technically like you could do what i said. Cause it all seriousness the fines are rediculas. Even for 1 song
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Correct. Except my brother works for a major international record label based in sydney as an intellectual property lawyer, and before that worked for a company that acted for this label in brisbane. And he told me that basically an APRA representitive can see you in a club, ask to see your receipts and if you don't. They can get to police to confiscate all of your tunes + raid your house for your computer etc. And if anything on your computer (not just tunes but software etc) can be used against you.
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Sure u could race home in time and destroy your computer.

or

You could just get legit music haha.

So this is right. If i download from beatport... Burn it to a cd to play in a club but still have a copy on my hd at home am i sweet.

Watch out Electro RockERZ and Dj ZyGRAICH. Those cool mash ups will get em in a world of strife.
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Well of course, everyone should buy music legit. I buy all of my music and it is the way to go. But you can still play "illegal" music at a club without APRA having shit on you. Most whitelabels / bootlegs from yesteryear (and some from today) are technicallly "illegal" but you've paid for them (talking about vinyl here) and can produce the receipt and so APRA can't do shit.
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How do you all afford to buy all of this music ok beat port its only like 3 dollas a track or some thing but if i payed for all my muisc it would cost me like $60+ a mounth im 17 i got a job that pays me well but theres no way i could justife spending that much money when i can get it all for free.
p.s not gigiing so im not spending any making any money out of the music.

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Originally Posted by Eros le Tardfack

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CHOPPY_INDAHOUSE

How do you all afford to buy all of this music


when it's your passion the $$$ doesn't come into it

i'd easily spend $100 in a given fortnight on new rekkids ... usually more

i'm a vinyl junkie though
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