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I used to wear my HRM religiously but now I don't even bother, I can tell when I'm cruising or when I need to ramp it up. And I use RunKeeper on my solo runs but I can't bring the iPhone with me when I run with the running group
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Originally Posted by big eddie View Post

It's because of this image in the quote from astro boy at the top of the page

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Quote:

Originally Posted by loopi View Post

I used to wear my HRM religiously but now I don't even bother, I can tell when I'm cruising or when I need to ramp it up. And I use RunKeeper on my solo runs but I can't bring the iPhone with me when I run with the running group

I love being able to go over the data when I'm done and see why certain bits were how they were, ie that hill really sucked because I went out too hard the previous click etc.

The gps/hrm thing changed running for me completely.

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I hate it when you're right and I'm not.

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Oh sweet now I don't have to read about running in the real exercise thread.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by big eddie View Post

I love being able to go over the data when I'm done and see why certain bits were how they were, ie that hill really sucked because I went out too hard the previous click etc.

The gps/hrm thing changed running for me completely.

Yeah fair enough That's why I use RunKeeper. But now that I've reached a point where running is easy (to an extent), I don't need a chest strap/HRM on me. Agree with Metaphorikal, you feel more free without it. Strangely enough, the lighter/less cluttered I feel the faster I seem to run?
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I used to time all my runs when I did Cross Country in high school, at first it was fun seeing how I improved- but then it became less enjoyable and felt like the final time was the only thing that mattered..

If I used a garmin or another tracking device I think I would just get too worked up trying to run a PB every time I went out the door - KISS(Keep it simple stupid)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by metaphorikal View Post

I don't time my training runs, it looks like I am in the minority... I find it more enjoyable not having an indication of how fast I am going. It just feels more..free.

This just depends on your goals. If you just want to keep fit and run 3-5x per week then no probs, go for your life. But if you want to run sub 37min 10k or sub 2:55 marathon or sub 4min 1500m for example then you'll have to increase training volume and periodise properly, and that requires knowledge of training paces to make sure you are doing things optimally.
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Actually if you just want to do a PB in a marathon or half marathon then you'll benefit from understanding what your running pace is and sticking to a training plan.

The vast majority of recreational athletes run too fast for their long slow runs, and too slow for their interval work.
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^It really is up to the individual. In the beginning I depended on my HRM but now it's collecting dust. I run with a group of competing marathon runners every Tuesday and Thursday and none of them use GPS or HRMs. They're seasoned runners who know their body and how to pace themselves.
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I just like numbers.

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I only use the HRM for key runs usually
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I also like numbers, but my fascination with statistics is limited to lifting. I also don't feel the need to wear a GPS or HRM - I'm pretty confident at guessing what my heart rate its. I have a pretty solid exercise background and I have run enough to know when I am working hard vs maximal(V02 max test). Having said that, I think the technology is great as it is probably going to help people to run safer(especially HRM).

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Quote:

Originally Posted by didjeridude View Post

The vast majority of recreational athletes run too fast for their long slow runs, and too slow for their interval work.

Words of wisdom, as always.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by loopi View Post

^It really is up to the individual. In the beginning I depended on my HRM but now it's collecting dust. I run with a group of competing marathon runners every Tuesday and Thursday and none of them use GPS or HRMs. They're seasoned runners who know their body and how to pace themselves.

aha!! I never said you have to use a GPS or a HRM though did I? I just said that you need to train at the correct pace. A lot of runners won't or don't need to use GPS but I highly doubt that any runner of any level would not benefit from doing well structured track interval sessions (which is essentially the same thing ie: knowing the time and distance to calculate pace).

btw the entire AIS middle distance squad use garmins for every run and have been for years

HR can also be used to monitor recovery. Lots of work in the field of heart rate variability going on at the moment.
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sif you'd run without a GPS
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When I got a GPS I discovered I had been previously overestimating my distances by using googlemaps/mapmyrun.

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I hate it when you're right and I'm not.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by didjeridude View Post

aha!! I never said you have to use a GPS or a HRM though did I? I just said that you need to train at the correct pace. A lot of runners won't or don't need to use GPS but I highly doubt that any runner of any level would not benefit from doing well structured track interval sessions (which is essentially the same thing ie: knowing the time and distance to calculate pace).

aha!! I never said that it wasn't beneficial My argument is that it's purely a matter of preference.
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Having a preference to have less information to review your performance makes no sense to me, have you used a garmin or just a hrm?
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Did you miss the part where I said that I use GPS on my solo runs? I only don't use it during group training.
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I've not used runkeeper so don't know if its comparable with a garmin
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+1 for runkeeper, but I'll be asking for a Garmin for my 30th in a few months time ( I need a bike computer anyway)-the data output is the same AC but unless you strap the phone to your shoulder it's hard to know the speed you are going at any particular moment in time, you can get a readout every km that tells you your average overt the km but it's not very useful if you want to adjust on the run
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the gps in a phone is a-gps (assisted gps) it isn't as accurate as a dedicated gps receiver.

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I hate it when you're right and I'm not.

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I'd love a Garmin if I could afford one. But RunKeeper will do in the interim
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Quote:

Originally Posted by loopi View Post

aha!! I never said that it wasn't beneficial My argument is that it's purely a matter of preference.

aha! so we agree

edit: @eddie.... are you sure all phones are a-GPS? I was under the impression that many phones had their own GPS receiver?. My HTC desire for example uses a-GPS which seems to have an error of about 50-100m or so, but as soon as I turn on the GPS it puts me within a few metres
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Last edited by didjeridude: 04-Oct-11 at 10:05pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by didjeridude View Post

The vast majority of recreational athletes run too fast for their long slow runs, and too slow for their interval work.

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Originally Posted by DuncanM View Post

Words of wisdom, as always.

How do you get your long run / easy pace to be faster though? Obviously an easy run is 5:00/km for someone & 7:00/km for someone else, so how do you train your body to be faster at all paces - long/easy/tempo/intervals - across the board if you're not supposed to push it on your long runs?

Is it correct to say that you should use your max HR as your guide, running them at around 70% & eventually your heart rate stays lower at higher speeds?
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I gradually lower my easy pace after I get to my max distance, i really go by feel though it should feel easy. 5:30min/k used to be me pushing hard, but after training 5:30min/k felt slow, thats how it should feel.
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Did you factor your HR into that, or just go by feel?
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just feel i never use a HRM, I reckon for an easy run it's pretty easy to tell. For intervals I just run as a hard as I can and try and improve next time.
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Went for my first run in about 3 months on Tuesday afternoon. My hip flexors are dying
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serves you right for stopping, unless of course you had a broken leg or were in a coma or something
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I do hill runs and HIIT normally. A couple of times more and I'll be fine, but I never do more than 5km. At least not yet.
You try dragging 100kg up and down hills at a fast pace.
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dragged my 100kg frame over 42.2ks in the melbourne marathon. first time. 4hrs30mins. was stoked. was aiming for around that time too, easily a great building block to start chipping away at.
get a garmin everyone. helps with daily activities such as calculating how far it is to get to the kitchen. no srsly.
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^ awesome stuff
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Quote:

Originally Posted by zakka101 View Post

dragged my 100kg frame over 42.2ks in the melbourne marathon. first time. 4hrs30mins. was stoked. was aiming for around that time too, easily a great building block to start chipping away at.
get a garmin everyone. helps with daily activities such as calculating how far it is to get to the kitchen. no srsly.


It's actually only 42.195km, but it's a pretty good effort anyway
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haha cheers man. was a good day. who would have thought the 35-40k mark of a marathon is a warzone. its unreal.
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Yes I recently discovered the pain that is running a marathon
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hha yeah bro, legit as f*ck.id encourage anyone who hasnt had a crack to have a crack.
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It seems strange to me that the point that so many people fall apart in the marathon is slightly further than that trained for.

I understand the 'recovery vs benefits' reasons for not running further than 36km in training, but it does raise questions.

There are a couple of trainers/coaches who dispute that training approach & train their athletes beyond the 42km before the big day, like you would for any other shorter distance race.
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yo runners i need your help. went for my first run today in almost a year and i am in a world of pain. i get a lot of pain in my lower back when i'm running and i don't know why... it's always been a problem for me, though when i was running quite a bit at the start of the year i wasn't really experiencing much pain in my back at all.

so tonight i did a 1.2k warm up, a lot of stretching, then started my run. it wasn't long before the pain in my lower back started to appear, but i kept on going as i was determined to complete the run. the pain got worse and worse and i was running at a snails pace due to the pain being so bad but i didn't want to give up. made it to the end of my run and almost collapsed, the pain was unbearable and i could barely stand up afterwards. anyone experienced such pain before and know what i can do for it?? it's never really a problem when i'm playing soccer or doing sprints, it only occurs when i'm doing some long distance running. help me
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i get this too

i have no solution for you, i just stopped running
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shoes and/or heel striking sound like likely culprits.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by big eddie View Post

shoes and/or heel striking sound like likely culprits.

that's what i used to think, but i bought some nike free run shoes last year, they are comfy as fuck and i was doing a lot of running in them last summer and wasn't getting any pain in my lower back at all. i was quite slack with my style tonight as it's the first time i've ran in a while so my fitness isn't that great, could be that
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Have you tried running on your toes? Will kill your calves the first few times but start slow and build up from there.
Also go see a podiatrist, you may need proper in-soles. I got mine about 8 years ago and haven't had a single back spasm or knee pain since then. Best $400 ever spent.
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do you sit down all day for work?

check yer hip flexors and glutes... mine often get tight due to having a desk job and this can impact yer lower back too
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In the November issue of 'Running Times' (from the U.S.) magazine there is a one page story on the Robert De Castella marathon project.

Ask at your local newsagent.
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Nah

I'd rather read an article on Aircon, I hear he has done a marathon
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Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickbateman View Post

that's what i used to think, but i bought some nike free run shoes last year, they are comfy as fuck and i was doing a lot of running in them last summer and wasn't getting any pain in my lower back at all. i was quite slack with my style tonight as it's the first time i've ran in a while so my fitness isn't that great, could be that

Try and engage your glutes a bit more when your running, sore lower back is often a symptom of your glutes not firing in the correct sequence. What are your abs like? Poor core/abdominal strength may also cause it, work up to a 5min plank 3 times a week combined with some lower leg levers and plenty of stretching and see if that helps
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Quote:

Originally Posted by gotamangina View Post

It seems strange to me that the point that so many people fall apart in the marathon is slightly further than that trained for.

I understand the 'recovery vs benefits' reasons for not running further than 36km in training, but it does raise questions.

There are a couple of trainers/coaches who dispute that training approach & train their athletes beyond the 42km before the big day, like you would for any other shorter distance race.

People fall apart in a marathon around 35km not because they failed to complete training runs longer than 36km, but because they get delusions of granduer and go out way too fast on race day.

I've done a number of adventure races and enduro mtb races (100km), and I've trained several people to complete marathons in the 3hr-3:30 bracket plus worked with coaches of athletes whom are sub 2:30 and it makes no difference what level you are at. You can do all the training and mega volume in the world, but if you get your pacing wrong early, you'll suffer miserably later on and cry for mummy just like Andy Shleck did when Cadel squashed him like an ant in the TT.
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Or they fail to adjust to the environmental conditions
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