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JRSM +

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X-fader Question
Only to do with Pioneer and A&H mixers. (djm 800 / x42/62).

Whats the difference between the two (in your experience)? All other aspects of either mixer aside, are both pretty much equal from a scratching perspective? Or is one preferable to the other?

(I understand neither are scratch mixers)
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are you planning to scratch with them?

i prefer the A&H "feel" to the mixers, but that being said, the 800's have improved many time over compared to the 600.
step on my cubes.
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i've not used either (rane man myself) but most a&h mixers have penny and giles cross faders, which are considered some of the best contact faders in the world. the only thing that betters them is the non contact jobbies in some rane's and ecler's.

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Originally Posted by kzzy View Post

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Bones

i've not used either (rane man myself) but most a&h mixers have penny and giles cross faders, which are considered some of the best contact faders in the world. the only thing that betters them is the non contact jobbies in some rane's and ecler's.

Being VCA - doesn't it make them non-contact faders?

I'm by no means and expert on these things but that was my understanding of how they worked? Though I'm probably wrong.


Either way - I have a Xone92 and I love the feel of the faders. But the DJM800 also has nice feeling faders (especially compared to the DJM600) - but for different reasons. The Xone has a nice smooth flowing fader that's effortless. It's like it's floating in space. The DJM800's on the other hand feel like they have some resistance to them which for some reason I also like? But I love my Xone so I'll say go for the 92.
JRSM +

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*sigh*
Still in the process of choosing a new mixer
Starting to get into scratching. Mix alot of funk, hiphop, breaks... but not really pinned to one genre (got some dnb, house, trance etc). love it all.
point is - want a mixer with decent scratch capabilities that is a bit more diverse than your tm56 beast.
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I don't really feel that the faders are that bad that they make scratching really hard but if it really bothers you. You could alway put a innofade in there
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okay so I have only used a denon x1500. They don't seem super common but have a penny and giles cross fader pluss effects and 4 channels so not a scratch mixer. Just another one of the numerous options but might be a bit cheaper.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko

the 800's have improved many time over compared to the 600.

Do you know how the 700s fit in between the two?
louislogic +

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VCA doesn't mean non-contact. VCA is voltage controlled something..

um - look into an empath or a nuo 3.0 if you want a nice mix between mix/scratch oriented mixers. retro-fitting a modern non contact fader into a DJM-800 or 92 is a possibility, i guess, but probably a bit expensive and you may as well be looking into other mixers..

someone else would have to chime in about how much you can customise the slopes/cut ins/orientation of the faders on the DJM800 or 92 - when i've used them it's always been while i'm out and i've never tried to scratch using the fader on them.
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Orientation and slop of the cross-fader is great on the Xone92 - all channels have an X-Y switch to assign which side you want that channel and a rotary control for x-fade slope. Works great one side is an immediate cut as soon as the fader is a micron off the side and the other way is a smooth long transition.

VCA = Voltage Controlled Amplifier - and you're right, has nothing to do with being contact or non. Just one of those things I wrongly assumed.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by JKWITS

okay so I have only used a denon x1500. They don't seem super common but have a penny and giles cross fader pluss effects and 4 channels so not a scratch mixer. Just another one of the numerous options but might be a bit cheaper.

you don't need a dedicated scratch mixer... as long as you have X-fader curve control and don't have cheap faders, then you'll be able to scratch. the rest is up to your skillz.

any of the major brands' high end mixers will serve the purpose well enough for learning.

empath would probably be the best multi purose 3channel mixer.
vestax CX is great because of the space around the xfader, but it's expensive and it's a big bastard.
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annandin +

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A Xone 62 probably wouldn't be a good idea for scratching, it only has a choice between two crossfader curves, you can't make it cut really tight.
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I would highly reccmond the 'innofader''
Here is the write up on it


The Audio Innovate innoFADER has been designed to completely change the way you feel about the crossfader. Having studied the habits and requirements of today’s DJs, the innoFADER offers unparalleled levels of quality and adjustability that you just don’t find in other crossfaders.

So thanks to the innoFADER, you'll no longer need to be less than satisfied with the stock fader in your mixer. Buy the innoFADER today and change your DJ life forever.

Wouldn't you rather have a fader that you just plug in and forget about? Isn't it a real pain to have to keep taking it out every few months to clean it, just so it continues to work? Such is the weakness of traditional faders - contact technology that will eventually break.

The innoFADER has been built from the ground up to utilise a new form of non-contact technology - capacitance. For you, this means installing and forgetting about it, rather than constant faceplate removing sessions to remove the build up of daily DJ dirt.

That's not all - the innoFADER has a whole arsenal of adjustments as well as an almost universal plug and play architecture, making it the most user friendly fader in the DJ scene.

The success of a mixer is largely down to the feel of the crossfader. It’s a highly personal experience that is often ignored with stock faders. You need to make it your own and feel that the fader won’t break in your hands.

The innoFADER comes complete with a solid steel 8mm fader stem, designed to withstand even that hardest battering from a heavy handed scratch DJ. But thanks to specially designed polished Steel rails, the innoFADER runs as smooth as butter, responding to even the lightest touch.

But that’s not all - if you prefer a little more resistance from your fader, the innoFADER has a special tension adjust control. It's also been designed so that the tension adjust screw stays in place - no working its way free inside your fader.
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If you're scratching then avoid Allen and Heath mixers at all costs

There's some sort of filter in the crossfader to eliminate any noise. In turn this gives the cross fader a slight delay which makes it pretty much unusable for scratching.

The other major problem is the long studio style faders. Fine for mixing but for cutting and scratching once again useless.

Even scratching on a DJM600 is a dream compared to them. Infact even scratching on a crossfader with no curve adjustment is better then an allen and heath.

Having said that though I think some of their newer mixers are using the Pro X Fade? If so the Pro X Fade's are great faders and would hopefully fix the problem but you'd have to try it out first.

And yes the innofaders are awesome to scratch on.


Quote:

Originally Posted by JRSM

Only to do with Pioneer and A&H mixers. (djm 800 / x42/62).

Whats the difference between the two (in your experience)? All other aspects of either mixer aside, are both pretty much equal from a scratching perspective? Or is one preferable to the other?

(I understand neither are scratch mixers)

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Last edited by TyPhoNiC: 20-Mar-09 at 12:42am

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JRSM

*sigh*
Still in the process of choosing a new mixer
Starting to get into scratching. Mix alot of funk, hiphop, breaks... but not really pinned to one genre (got some dnb, house, trance etc). love it all.
point is - want a mixer with decent scratch capabilities that is a bit more diverse than your tm56 beast.


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Go for the NUO series, it comes with a nice fader for scratching imo, I m no master at it but it feels quite comfortable, plus it's versatile.
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The NUO5 is the best way to go if you want a crossfader you can scratch on and all the features of you usual consumer end DJ mixer.
We are constantly changing faders in A&H and PIONEER mixers so i doubt they will servive the distance and you would just be throughing the money down the drain when you have to upgrade the mixer in a year!
If you can servive with a 2ch, it would be a better idea to buy a ECLER HAK350/380 or RANE TTM56/57 but the NUO mixers with the "Eternal" x-fader will at least servive the abuse!
Don't buy a mixer because it has "Penny&Giles or Alps" pots in it I have seen some really crap P&G faders in my life, A good fader should last for the rest of your life. For scratching the new faders in the TTM’s and the HAK’s are the best of the best, Personaly I prefer the ECLER HAK “Eternal” as the RANE fader doesn’t like pressure pushing down in it and most roadcases have foam pushing down on the faders. ECLER and RANE have had years at this and ECLER have been building scratch mixers for years (ECLER built a lot of VESTAX’s better battle mixers back in the day as well as the TASCAM battle mixers and some others I wont mention) & RANE have refined there mixers into what is probably the best line up in profesional mixers!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Bones

most a&h mixers have penny and giles cross faders, which are considered some of the best contact faders in the world.

Behringer also use Penny & Giles faders.

All is not what it seems.

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