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DJ ethics - a few nuggets of knowledge

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All I'm saying is that you might be selling records but not building your name so that people look out for future releases. I just think it's a completely selfish and ****ish thing to do. If a DJ can't rock a crowd without resorting to measures like these then he can't be that talented.

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Maybe you should read up on the history of djing before making assumptions of talent based on these types of measures
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Quote:

Originally Posted by miutante

This is the crux of what bugs me about this forum. I've seen a warehouse party being rocked by someone using a CDJ100 and a DVD player before. yes a DVD player!

I Started DJ'ing with 2 DVD Players and the school P.A system!!!! mixing in breakdowns and drop mixing ftw!!!


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Originally Posted by mosesperoni

I use the people that hate me as a measure of my own performance as a human, if they're shit ****s then I'm on the right track.

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Originally Posted by forenzik

fair call - I guess there was just something about this point that I really liked. Kind of stripping all the gadgets away and taking it to the fundamentals.

mega lol, first time i dj'd in a club i brought in my TT's and a crate of vinyl, and i forgot the little adapter for my headphones that takes it fom 3.5mm to instrument size, whole set was done on vinyl with no headphones... !!!


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Originally Posted by mosesperoni

I use the people that hate me as a measure of my own performance as a human, if they're shit ****s then I'm on the right track.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by macc4

Maybe you should read up on the history of djing before making assumptions of talent based on these types of measures

Maybe you should not make assumptions that I haven't. I'm well versed in the history of DJing and have been DJing myself for over 15 years.

I know that this practice was widespread back then and just because it was widespread doesn't make it right in my opinion. Racism was a lot more widespread in the 60s than it is now but there aren't many people defending it today.

I'm not suggesting that blackening record labels is analogous to racism, I'm just saying that it's wrong to defend and reminisce about a practice that makes the DJ look like a bit of a wanker.

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For someone well versed in the history of djing you seem to miss the many angles of this measure. It was 8 records, 7 more than would have been sold regardless!
At the time he sure didn't look like a wanker with this semi exclusive track. People danced, everyone was happy.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by macc4

For someone well versed in the history of djing you seem to miss the many angles of this measure. It was 8 records

The point he was making was he was buying up every copy in that area so that no-one else in the vicinity could have the record (and he could "protect his sound"). You get a bunch of DJ's in multiple geographical areas doing that and it's more than 8 records. In any case, what the fuck does this specific 8 record example have to do with the history of DJing?

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Why 7 more than would have been sold? The artist might have sold those 8 records to 8 individuals who played that track to a bunch more people who all then looked out for the guys next record and bought those records and over time may have become a much more successful artist. The point is the artist was never given that chance because some selfish idiot bought the whole stock himself

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In regards to exclusivity and protecting his sound from what preceded the blog roll dj's.
In a way, sustainability and protection of interest. He did it because he could. These days you don't even get that option.
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hahah the guy has obviously been left behind.



I only play vinyl, but unless i got overtaken i wouldn't be so jaded.
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Look we can agree to disagree and I vehemently disagree with this practice. Not as much as I disagree with people downloading music from blogs which is plain and simple theft, but I still think that protecting your sound in this way is detrimental to the artist and quite selfish.

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What the fuck is a blog roll DJ? Have I been left behind by the scene?

Guess its time for a jaded rant.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdoofus

What the fuck is a blog roll DJ? Have I been left behind by the scene?

Guess its time for a jaded rant.

Someone who steals all their music from blogs rather than paying for it

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Originally Posted by RaVeR_SpIkE View Post

all i can say is fuck you ref you fuckhead

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A couple of my close friends are Blog Roll DJ’s, it’s disgusting in our business to not support the artist in some way, part of me wants them to get fined for it…

If the Bloggers all got locked up maybe it would filter out some of the posers & bring back the love for the music and our craft!


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Quote:

Originally Posted by base615

Why 7 more than would have been sold? The artist might have sold those 8 records to 8 individuals who played that track to a bunch more people who all then looked out for the guys next record and bought those records and over time may have become a much more successful artist. The point is the artist was never given that chance because some selfish idiot bought the whole stock himself

I think the problem is that these hip hop types view DJing as a competition, something in which to get the better of others. Pure love of music and wanting it to be shared is the furthest thing from their minds.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by base615

Racism was a lot more widespread in the 60s than it is now but there aren't many people defending it today.

you're... using racism as a comparison?

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Originally Posted by kzzy View Post

The music that I push in my opinion is probably a bit too mature for someone who listens to "Trance" but hey, we all have to start somewhere?

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This thread seriously highlights how a generation or 2 of DJs totally miss the point of forging your own style and applying some effort and skills in your "trade"

Bunch of fukking hacks if you ask me


I've had a discussion with a friend about being supportive to up n coming and new DJs and the best way to do this. It boiled down to two schools of thought.

The first is the contemporary digital PLUR version. Everyone has the rights to have every tune imaginable and the tip top gear to mix it on. People support fresh talent with questions already asked ad infinitum. They point them to the tunes, they point them to the gear and they hold their hand whilst they mix. This is nice. This is easy. This is also complacent.

The second is about challenging people rather than pandering to their frail n00b DJ egos. Essentially this stems from 2 subcultures that contributed majorly to the roots of DJ culture ... hip hop and JA sound systems. A key feature in both these scenes is battling ... challenging each other. Who's got the hottest, freshest sounds ... who's got the tunes, the skills and the ear for tunes to win the crowd.

Those who won battles got props. Why? Because competition makes people strive harder. Face it, people work a bit harder on their game when they're in the finals of Wimbledom than at a social sunday afternoon session with some friends.

Bring the pressure i say!


Another parallel In both hip hop and JA sound systems, the exclusivity of a track was majorly hot. Labels were scratched off and covered up so others couldn't get that track


Biting on another's style just doesn't register with 95% of DJs here because they mostly subscribe to the same sound as their fave DJ/housemate/partner/fukbuddy and dare not stray from their comfort zone and forge their own style ... and a lot of those DJs are stagnant in their choice of music ... "yea, i play ALL kids of stuff ... tech, tech house, mnml and tech trance"


With the cheapness of music these days you'd tend to think that because people have access to more music they would have a more diverse style ... alas it seems the inverse is the case
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Last edited by Funkedub: 16-Jun-09 at 08:49am

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

Because competition makes people strive harder. Face it, people work a bit harder on their game when they're in the finals of Wimbledom than at a social sunday afternoon session with some friends.

Another parallel In both hip hop and JA sound systems, the exclusivity of a track was majorly hot. Labels were scratched off and covered up so others couldn't get that track

Bring the pressure i say!

If you want to turn music appreciation into a competition then that's fine. It makes my stomach turn personally. Wouldn't "working a bit harder" entail actually getting into the studio and making the music as opposed to buying it and scratching the label off? Thus leaving Djing to those who just like music and want to share it for no purpose other than liking music and wanting to share it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub


Biting on another's style just doesn't register with 95% of DJs here

Again I think the DJ is "biting" the producers style in your model. Bit hypocritical to label another DJ that does the same thing you did but just got there after you.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by b_bop

If you want to turn music appreciation into a competition then that's fine. It makes my stomach turn personally. Wouldn't "working a bit harder" entail actually getting into the studio and making the music as opposed to buying it and scratching the label off? Thus leaving Djing to those who just like music and want to share it for no purpose other than liking music and wanting to share it?


music appreciation is not the competition.

DJing is the competition.

I work on productions myself, but they aren't dancefloor orientated.

My motivation behind DJing is to turn people on with the sounds if find.


Quote:

Originally Posted by b_bop

Again I think the DJ is "biting" the producers style in your model. Bit hypocritical to label another DJ that does the same thing you did but just got there after you.


Style is more than just one producers' song ... it's the sound you make for yourself through your tune selection. There's nothing hypocritical about it what so ever. Djing is DJing ... producing is producing ... sometimes the line gets blurred, but it can also be quite clearly drawn.

DJs get the sounds of producers out there ... known or unknown. A lot of producers are shit DJs and vice versa.

You simply fail to comprehend what biting means in regards to DJing ... so, in summary ... bite it
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b-bop, don't bother.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kzzy View Post

The music that I push in my opinion is probably a bit too mature for someone who listens to "Trance" but hey, we all have to start somewhere?

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^^^

for a hip hop fan you should be "down" with this "shiz" Bones
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i'm just taking the piss mate.

i think i am.. though again i can't exactly relate to what you're talking about, because djing has only ever been (for me) about my own amusement, not anyone elses, so the concept of battling people is foreign to me, but i can see how it'd be a really good way to progress both in skills and styles if i were into it a bit more seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kzzy View Post

The music that I push in my opinion is probably a bit too mature for someone who listens to "Trance" but hey, we all have to start somewhere?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Bones

you're... using racism as a comparison?

Mate, what's with the selective quoting? If you read my next sentence I said I was not comparing it to racism but using it as an example of something that was more widely accepted years ago but no less wrong

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Originally Posted by RaVeR_SpIkE View Post

all i can say is fuck you ref you fuckhead

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty_neal

Anyway in a nutshell; old bitter man, can't keep up, was cool, now not. I've never seen anyone with the same style as me. Similar yes, same? no. So up yours old man!

ha ha i was waiting for someone to come out with something like that
well done, you've delivered (so typically for a generation bling as well)

BTW every generation thinks they're better than the last
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Quote:

Originally Posted by manuka

BTW every generation thinks they're better than the last

i don't think my generation is better than the last.

i think in their day the last generation was better than us, but if being a smarmy, jaded old ****face who thinks he's gods gift is what being from the previous generation of talented djs has come to.. well.. he can go diaf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kzzy View Post

The music that I push in my opinion is probably a bit too mature for someone who listens to "Trance" but hey, we all have to start somewhere?

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It's important to recognise cultural differences, and this guy (who has not been left behind) expresses himself very differently to the way we would, and not really in his best interests. What could have been some passing on as wisdom has come across like a jaded rant.

To me the underlying thing is that becoming a good DJ, a really good DJ, takes time and effort. It just does, like surfing or any other pursuit. The ability to avoid the slowing effects of mastering the technical bits and acquiring tunes creates a short cut that might not be so beneficial. And the evidence is there, most agree on that. Most DJs started out with a long and well developed passion for music first, now it seems that some DJs lack that well developed passion.

I think we have to accept that we live in a highly commodified and accesible world and the result is a lot crap. Let's hope budding DJs recognise this and take the time to become exceptional, because they have that opportunity.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dub DeLay

What could have been some passing on as wisdom has come across like a jaded rant.

presizzle my nizzle. it comes back to the school of thought that it's not just what we do that defines us (both in djing and in life in general) but the way we do it too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kzzy View Post

The music that I push in my opinion is probably a bit too mature for someone who listens to "Trance" but hey, we all have to start somewhere?

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it's not what you do, but the way that you do it ... the speakers you blew but the way that you blew it ... PWEI always knew it
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dub delay

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Quote:

it comes back to the school of thought that it's not just what we do that defines us (both in djing and in life in general) but the way we do it too.

and what we do it in right?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Bones

i don't think my generation is better than the last.

i was generalising - making a sweeping statement

silly me

true observation on my part though - i've seen it heaps - especially in baby boomers
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub


DJing is the competition.

Out of interest, how do they declare a winner? Is it crowd reaction like in Eminem's movie because that scoring system seemed open for interpretation and exploitation. Not to mention the inordinate favouritism home ground advantage would bring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

You simply fail to comprehend what biting means in regards to DJing ... so, in summary ... bite it

"Biting" - to mimic the purchasing behaviour of another music consumer. I think I've got it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by b_bop

Out of interest, how do they declare a winner? Is it crowd reaction like in Eminem's movie because that scoring system seemed open for interpretation and exploitation. Not to mention the inordinate favouritism home ground advantage would bring.


Winners aren't declared as such ... but reputations are made and broken. The idea is to step up and show the crowd (and other DJs) why they should pay attention to you.


Quote:

Originally Posted by b_bop

"Biting" - to mimic the purchasing behaviour of another music consumer. I think I've got it.


Buying the same tunes is separate from tune selection when DJing.

Hand 3 different DJs the same 10 tracks and you'll get 3 different mixes ...

If one DJ was to bite the style of the other their set would sound the same ...

style, technique and tune selection (ie. when you choose to play what, not what you purchase) are what sets one DJ apart from another.

imitating style, technique and tune selection = biting.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

Hand 3 different DJs the same 10 tracks and you'll get 3 different mixes ...

If one DJ was to bite the style of the other their set would sound the same ...

style, technique and tune selection (ie. when you choose to play what, not what you purchase) are what sets one DJ apart from another.

Well we'd only be able to hand the DJs nine of the same tracks since old mate bought the entire catalogue of the tenth track (which was an absolute bomb BTW).
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Imitation is the highest form of flattery, until they become more successful than you, then it's just annoying.

Also I bought 1000 songs off beatport but it's still in the catalogue, what's going on? I didn't want anyone to have the same track as me. Did I just waste $3000?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdoofus

Well we'd only be able to hand the DJs nine of the same tracks since old mate bought the entire catalogue of the tenth track (which was an absolute bomb BTW).


he even got doubles!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdoofus

Well we'd only be able to hand the DJs nine of the same tracks since old mate bought the entire catalogue of the tenth track (which was an absolute bomb BTW).

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdoofus

(which was an absolute bomb BTW).

this bit.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by SlicyDicer

Imitation is the highest form of flattery, until they become more successful than you, then it's just annoying.

Also I bought 1000 songs off beatport but it's still in the catalogue, what's going on? I didn't want anyone to have the same track as me. Did I just waste $3000?

well to answer your question - probably not. i guess it depends on as couple of things, but i think the figure would be somewhere between $1500 and $2000.


anyway, let's face it guys -- we no longer live in a world where DJs buy music exclusively on vinyl. back then buying out all the records in your area was a selfish act, just as today it's selfish to conveniently not know the name of a track you're playing when someone asks you about it.

there are many different ways to climb to the top, but being a fucking idiot to everyone else is not a good way to do it.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicy

there are many different ways to climb to the top, but being a fucking idiot to everyone else is not a good way to do it.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicy

well to answer your question - probably not. i guess it depends on as couple of things, but i think the figure would be somewhere between $1500 and $2000.


anyway, let's face it guys -- we no longer live in a world where DJs buy music exclusively on vinyl. back then buying out all the records in your area was a selfish act, just as today it's selfish to conveniently not know the name of a track you're playing when someone asks you about it.

there are many different ways to climb to the top, but being a fucking idiot to everyone else is not a good way to do it.

It's not a matter of 'conveniently not knowing' - more often then not, I don't know the track's title... but then, I play vinyl.
I'll show you the sleeve if you really want, but more likely I'll say something like "it's the new sampler on Freerange - they release one every 6 months - they're always great!"
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I completely agree with his comments about cutting tracks off before they have matured.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by kieren

As probably expected I have to agree with everything Cosmo said, maybe without the anger!
But in the end I am rather jaded at what DJs have become these days!

Personally I think its arrogant of young DJ to not research the origins of our craft or at least try to learn off the masters especially now with the internet. I learnt heaps of my peers and when I started I hadnt even seen a computer in person so I had to talk to people to get info & help. These days the only time a DJ comes up to talk to me is to tell me how fuckin good he is, never to ask about how or why I did something a certain way or how he should improve!

The responses to Cosmo Bakers comments on the forum are exactly whats wrong with DJs these days no matter how over the top Cosmo is, He is a better DJ than most and you should be soaking in what he says, minus the abuse of cause!

And in all truth I can blow off in rants like that now and then but I try not to on forums like this as it is just starting an endless argument!

.

I agree with this too
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have any of you guys ever owned a record (or mp3) that no one has (or at least very few) that works on the floor every time? it might be an old rare record you sourced, a mate's bootleg or re-edit, or a limited vinyl only run. a secret weapon that set your sets apart from the next guy?

if you haven't, then you won't understand cosmos's point re: buying up all the shop's records.
they only come out at night... or in this case, the day.
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Of course I have. I've also had a load of white labels where I didn't even know what they were but I wouldn't dream of not telling someone what it was if they asked (provided I actually know what it is). If they can then find it then great for them. I just can't understand Cosmo's point no matter how hard I try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaVeR_SpIkE View Post

all i can say is fuck you ref you fuckhead

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I own a few records like that. I'll still tell people what the tracks are if they ask for the names. Good luck to them if they can find those tracks. I'm confident that I'll still rock the dancefloor, and if they can too then kudos to them. I got into djing to share the music I love with people, not compete. Fuck, I didn't even write those tunes, what gives me the right to prevent others from discovering the producer who wrote such an awesome track in the first place?!
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^ Exactly.

Everybody needs to remember that its just fucking dance music, and you're just a fucking DJ.
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I think a lot of people miss the point about the exclusivity of a track and how it's rooted in very different clubbing and DJ culture than we have today.

Once someone knows what a track is they can go and get it and play it elsewhere ... if they don't know what the track is, but they know you play it, then if they want to hear it they'll have to come and see you play.

DJing is all PLURd out now
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub

I think a lot of people miss the point about the exclusivity of a track and how it's rooted in very different clubbing and DJ culture than we have today.

The key is in understanding that culture is not a static beast.
There is pleasure in the pathless woods,
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There is society, where none intrudes,
By the deep sea, and music in its roar:
I love not man the less, but Nature more.... Lord Byron
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all these haters, they just want the same tracks as all the other djs
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitchen

The key is in understanding that culture is not a static beast.


obviously.


However, i don't feel as though there's any right or wrong in it as some people are getting up in arms about.

right or wrong, past or present ... all ideas are valid.


As per my first post in this thread ... i'm pretty bemused by the reaction of some people to the ideas in the original post. There's a lot of knee jerk reaction to the ideas put forward and very little reflection about the shift in the culture they are involved in.


Yes, "it's just DJing" ... but it's clearly something people get very passionate about and has a massive culture surrounding it as a result which cannot be glibly passed off as "playing someone else's music"
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