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I failed to notice the extent of this earlier.
I'm calling Grimshaw.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post


but hey you read an old licence then thats fine

Well that's taken from the website

Anyways i'll contact both PPCA & APRA and find out for myself
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plus they change things without even telling you..........

oh and just going to the ppca and apra isnt the only place - I would be looking at aria as well for the format shift licences

oh just so you really know, you need for a club ONLY

http://www.ppca.com.au/IgnitionSuite...%2012%2010.pdf

http://www.ppca.com.au/IgnitionSuite...010[2].pdf

Quote:

This Tariff does not cover the playing of protected sound recordings in Nightclubs, including where you
use music video soundtracks to provide music for dancing in a venue that meets the definition of a
Nightclub. In that case you will require a licence under Tariff E1.

then better re-read this one (with a lawyer)
http://www.ppca.com.au/IgnitionSuite...010[1].pdf

http://www.ppca.com.au/IgnitionSuite...010[1].pdf

http://www.ppca.com.au/IgnitionSuite...010[1].pdf

but see I dont need 3x licences regarding a club/bar etc

so have a nice day - reviewing ALL the new licences that you may require
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Every time you say have a nice day it weakens your point and makes people think there is something wrong with you.
It's still same day it was when you said it last time. It is not improving as a result if this repetition.
Quiet time.
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plus it would help if those links worked
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then get them from the ppca website yourself you that lazy!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post

then get them from the ppca website yourself you that lazy!

Well everything you've posted relates to what venues & mobile Djs require

Nothing about what is required for a DJ operating in a club, except what i posted where it says the DJ is cover if the venue has the appropriate license.

Hey, if i'm wrong i'm more than happy to man up & admit it...but i can see any info to the contrary.
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So out of interest i spoke to MIRI and they confirmed this;

Quote:

Do I need any licences to DJ at a club or other venue?
Yes, generally the venue (for example, the club, hotel, nightclub or restaurant) needs a public performance licence from APRA and PPCA (or the relevant copyright owner) in order to allow you to play legitimately obtained music in public. However, in circumstances where you are performing at a venue that would not ordinarily require a licence, you may need to get public performance licences from APRA and PPCA (or the relevant copyright owner) in your own right.

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Some more interesting info confirmed by APRA;

Quote:

For the performance of music APRA does not licence DJ's or karaoke operators per se, APRA licences the venue in which you will perform. However you are unlikely to require one of these if you are performing in an established venue (bar, restaurant, nightclub) that should already be covered with a licence. You will also not require a performance licence if you are DJing in domestic settings (parties at people's homes).

Many DJs prefer to transfer their CD/vinyl collection on to a laptop for ease of portability and convenience (eg: burning CD/Vinyl tracks to a Laptop/MP3). If you are personally making copies of tracks for DJ or Karaoke purposes you will require an AMCOS Casual Blanket Reproduction licence. This includes transferring MP3s from one computer to another.

You will not require an AMCOS licence if you are performing using the original format only (CDs/vinyl/pre-loaded hard drive purchased from supplier/direct downloads to device performing with) legally bought by yourself. However, it is always best to keep receipts as proof of original purchase (especially regarding pre-loaded hard-drives) in the event you are questioned regarding having a licence to copy/perform copyright music. AMCOS also advise that you contact your Digital Service Provider if you wish to copy tracks you have downloaded from them (eg. iTunes, Bigpond). DSP's terms and conditions may not allow copying downloads for any reason other than domestic. If you have any questions about these matters you can contact MIPI (Music Industry Piracy Investigations) via their web site www.mipi.com.au

So in reading that as long as you are playing your legally downloaded music direct from the source you may not need a format shift license. (Ie; download it directly to the computer you'll play it from).
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Hmmmm, this is all a bit much. I'm just going to assume that if you make your living as a DJ (like PeeWee Ferris as was mentioned), you would be using legal tunes and have the club or festival licence, and can invest the time making sure it's all good. As for the rest of us weekend spinners, if we play at a club, we're covered. Anything else, (doofs, private parties, your mates church dance lol) I doubt they would even bother prosacuting

I only use files from CDs I own, have legally downloaded or have creative commons if I use digital stuff when playing out anyway. Not going to make money from metal albums that I've swapped with mates by DJing them!
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Spot on....with all the scaremongering that's going on....the fact of the matter is;

Quote:

- Music Industry Piracy Investigations

if you legally purchase music in MP3 format and play them from your computer, you will not need a licence to “copy” your music.

In terms of public performance licences, if the venue has a license then you are not required to have one.

So yeah, if you purchase your music legally, and play it direct from where you buy it (ie direct from the hard drive it's downloaded to) and the venue has the correct license you're okay to play.
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I thought format shifting was changing from one format to another? eg. mp3 to wav on a cd?

If it is, then the format shift licence is a joke. Good luck finding out whether the track on my cd is an mp3 or a wav without a warrant.

APRA, ARIA etc etc can suck a fat one. I fail to see how they are helping the music industry.
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it's a bit of a money grab....

the way i read it, if you burn an mp3 from your pc to a cd to play out then it that's format shifting...

with all this money that APRA / ARIA / PPCA want i wonder how much actually goes back to the artists...

I know with radio they have to supply a playlist and artists get paid a % based on that, but i've never heard of having to supply a playlist from a club gig....so where to the license fees collected from venues go? not to the artists it seems...
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Just to add to this, plenty of high profile DJ's have been caught and prosecuted over the years. Nik Fish, Pee Wee Ferris and some such and such RnB DJ's have all been done. It never has been a scapegoat to write promo only on a cd. That is one of the biggest urban legends in the industry as far back as I can remember.

The fact of the matter is this
1. You cannot buy music from Beatport etc etc and play it out without the relevant license
2. They CAN and WILL seize property that has been aquired relevant to DJ*ng. This is obtained through the courts and enforced by the police.
3. They do know where you play and when. I know this, I run quite a few venues around Australia and they know if we are putting on a night, who is playing etc. If we say otherwise, they send us a nice letter and bill each time.
4. The venue is required to have a PPCA and APRA license. This allows us to play background music (inhouse system like nightlife) and also for DJ's. Our PPCA fees are $2.75 per person, per capacity, per night. ie: One of my venues is a 1000 capacity. So, each night we have a DJ on - we pay $2.75 x 1000 people, regardless if there is 2 people in there. APRA isn't so bad, only about 17k a year, PPCA is fucked.
5. As Dennis said, is up to you if you wish to run the gauntlet, but I do know from mates who work for PPCA and APRA, they have teams that trawl forums such as ITM, FB accounts, Soundclound, Myspace etc etc etc. They also check things like magazines, do site visits etc. Is alot like drink driving, you can get away with it a few times, but sooner or later, you will get caught.
6. If you want to make mixes and give them to people, you are best of either A. burning it and giving it to them personally or use a file sharing thing like megaupload etc to send to them. Don't put on play lists, makes it much harder for them to ID (they do use programs like shazam etc to find most of them though)
7. Try and keep receipts, I know it is hard and heck, I find it hard to keep track of mine sometimes. You do not need to provide receipts for Vinyl
8. Like it or not, it is the law and they have the full backing of the courts in these matters. You can rant and rave till you are blue about how it is unfair, you shoudl be able to manipulate it blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is, you cannot, they are the rules, the laws and if you do not like it, do something about it. Speak to your local MP etc.

One last thing. the music license a venue has, only covers the venue, not you. My license does not allow you to play illegally obtained music, only gives me the right for me to have you playing, not what music you have
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By the way, the money collect from APRA / PPCA, only goes to Australian artists. So even if you play a set of only German artists, the money is held int he accounts of the organisations, does not get distributed back, unless their label is registered with them
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Yep, total money grab. I have actually heard the story that a friend of a friend got his set recorded by these predators and was asked to provide a tracklist with receipts for each track. There were no issues there.

I think that if you buy your music legitimately, you shouldn't be punished. It's a bit confusing to keep up with all of these licences that keep popping up, and a bit unfair if DJing is not your profession.

And guys like Dennis with his scaremongering only enrages me. Go somewhere else. Most people around here try to do the right thing, and do buy their music. APRA and ARIA etc. should be happy that we are actively promoting the music of the artists you represent. We are pushing music to the masses that might not ordinarily be discovered through the likes of channel V/ aria charts etc. A source of free promotion for these artists. I would also like to see what the majority of your artists think about DJ's playing their music out. I think I already know the answer to that.
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If you ever speak to someone from APRA, they will tell you how much they hate the PPCA as they think they are fucking the industry and music in general. You have to understand where the grab started from..... you see, 4 years ago, The PPCA employed the lead singer from the Hudu Gurus as the General Manager and he has been on record numerous times dicussing how he hates nightclub and DJ's as they have ruined the live music scene. Cue 2 years later, the PPCA takes it to the high courts and is able to raise the fee of 22 cents per person to $2.75 per person and by total capacity, not how many in the venue at the time.

Festivals are required to pay something like $5.25 per person now as well, up from $1.25. They also brought in the licensing for DJ's. So, blame that idiot
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Nice post, good to see some factual info from someone who knows what's actually relative

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpell View Post

The fact of the matter is this
1. You cannot buy music from Beatport etc etc and play it out without the relevant license

This is such a murky point. Going by the exact wording of the law you cant copy the music from the location you've downloaded it to another location / format. So if you download directly to a hard drive, and play directly from this it would seem as though you're not format shifting and dont need the license.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpell View Post

7. Try and keep receipts, I know it is hard and heck, I find it hard to keep track of mine sometimes. You do not need to provide receipts for Vinyl

Actually this is fairly easy, you get an emailed receipt for purchases from most online stores, ie beatport. Which you save for proof.

8. Like it or not, it is the law and they have the full backing of the courts in these matters. You can rant and rave till you are blue about how it is unfair, you shoudl be able to manipulate it blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is, you cannot, they are the rules, the laws and if you do not like it, do something about it. Speak to your local MP etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpell View Post

My license does not allow you to play illegally obtained music, only gives me the right for me to have you playing, not what music you have

I'm pretty sure none of the licenses cover people for illegally obtained music

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pomrocks View Post

Nice post, good to see some factual info from someone who knows what's actually relative



Yeah that Dennis guy is half bot or something but there wasn't anything he said that wasn't 'factual', albeit some of it being a bit outdated.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedbydesign View Post



Yeah that Dennis guy is half bot or something but there wasn't anything he said that wasn't 'factual', albeit some of it being a bit outdated.

Most of the info he was posting was relative to mobile djs, not club djs.
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Nah he was just being a douche so you automatically associated him with mobidjs.
Understandable mistake.
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dpell, I feel for ya. $2.75 a person is a complete rip. Stuff like this will kill nightclubs. I guess i should quit whinging then over a couple of licences

The fees you have to pay puts it all in perspective.
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I say if your that worried invite all the bodies from the copyright groups and have them AUDIT you completely
to see how legal you really are

put your money where your mouth is then instead of just replying that what I post isnt 'factual'
I quote whats written from the sites concerned how you read it is your own business not mine

as for just being for mobile its relevant to ALL DJS

as I said - if you want to stick your head in the sand or up your a** then thats your problem

NOT MINE the facts are out there - get a lawyer to read them to you so you know whats correct and whats not!!
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Fuck a lawyer.
Stick to warehouse parties.
Copyright doesn't mean shit to riot police.


And if it's not your problem why are you so concerned Dennis?
This has gone way past an awareness campaign..
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Dennis, did you read my previous posts where i've got relevant information directly from MIRI & APRA? Or would you like me to post it again?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by twistedbydesign View Post

And if it's not your problem why are you so concerned Dennis?
This has gone way past an awareness campaign..

Maybe he's working on commission?
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Dennis, I normally don't respond to people arching up on forums, but, for someone who is a CEO etc in the industry, is is mor eproductive to lay back and be informative without being all high and mighty about it. It is good that you have some information, but don't shove it down peoples throats or be rude about it. They are learning, just like you did once, so maybe just ease off a little, don't take things to heart and sleep well knowing that you will not get in trouble. Taking pleasure in other peoples misfortune (even if you did give them the heads up) is not the type of attitude forums such as this, that is designed to assist and part knowledge is needed.

If you don't like what is being written or responded to what you write, either A. walk away or B. maybe look at your attitude first and then adjust it to get a nicer response. Anyway, if anyone needs some advice on a few things, feel free to PM me or drop by and have a beer oen day in Sydney with me
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DjDennis

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I interpreted this as him being CEO of himself.
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twisted then have a niceday on your ventures

pomrocks so what I posted DIRECT FROM the websites you say isnt right
thats where I think you need to take up reading classes

a question was asked and it was answered - but it seems the ones that are scared (like you)
want others to break the law and stay unlicenced , but hey thats ok you should be audited and see how much your are legal

oh thats right you say you are

have a sunny day!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post

a question was asked and it was answered - but it seems the ones that are scared (like you)
want others to break the law and stay unlicenced , but hey thats ok you should be audited and see how much your are legal

wow....really?

I'll say it again

This is exactly what MIRI have advised;

Quote:

if you legally purchase music in MP3 format and play them from your computer, you will not need a licence to “copy” your music.

In terms of public performance licences, if the venue has a licence then you are not required to have one.

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Maybe putting the company name next to CEO would be more productive and less wanky than just name and title..
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Thread Closed: Unwarranted Thread Bump

Please keep all similar discussion to this thread: http://www.inthemix.com.au/forum/sho...d.php?t=286722
- It's all about the Music
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