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Online shoppers stealing our GST (also, our jeeeerrrrrrrbs)

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yeah, i don't see people buying whitegoods online from overseas suppliers.

internet retail is just mail order goods, which has existed for over 100 years.

there's still the appeal of having the goods right after purchase. claude glass was on point with his earlier post about the share price.
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^ Exactly, Australia never had a mail order catalogue shopping market like in the US. So the internet shopping thing was entirely new, rather than something changing medium.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

yeah, i don't see people buying whitegoods online from overseas suppliers.

internet retail is just mail order goods, which has existed for over 100 years.

I think the postman would go on strike if he had to deliver fridges and DHL would cost a fucking fortune. Save $300 on this fridge. Only $700 extra to have it courier delivered.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

there's still the appeal of having the goods right after purchase. claude glass was on point with his earlier post about the share price.

Even that's not too big a deal though- if I decide I want something it's often a few days til it's convenient to make it into the city to pick it up, and in the same time I can order it online and have it delivered if the supplier is local. Even if the goods are coming from Hong Hong direct it's usually no more than a week, and the savings are pretty awesome, I just brought a camera lens for $80 delivered which would have set me back close to $750 at a High St retailer.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post

They are not paying any GST but in some cases they are collecting an amount on account of the value added tax applicable to the jurisdiction which they are in.

For example, there are two NZ music retailers which I buy music from - one of them deducts the NZ GST once it knows that my delivery address is in Australia, one of them charges the same price regardless of where the good are being sent.

They won't be passing on the "GST component" to the IRD, I can assure you.
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Hipswinger: if you are ordering goods from overseas and they are delivered to your door, with a value less than AUD 1,000 per consignment, you shouldn't be paying GST on the importation.
If you're registered for GST you claim back any GST incurred on the importation of goods with a consignment value in excess of AUD 1,000. If you import goods and then resell them in Australia, GST will apply to your taxable supply.
A non-resident vendor who does not import the goods into Australia and does not make a supply connected with Australia should pay GST on their supply - why?
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I buy wholesale (from Aus) pay gst, but claim back credit. I resell (in Aus) pay gst.
They buy wholesale (OS) pay whatever their sales tax is. They resell (in Aus) don't pay gst.

That doesn't sound like a level playing field does it ?

Anyway, if it keeps esculating like this with no action, we'll see a killoff of small-medium size retail and the ripple effect will be massive.
We're all looking for the cheapest product without anyone looking at the big picture, but i guess thats a whole other thread.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by weekender View Post

A non-resident vendor who does not import the goods into Australia and does not make a supply connected with Australia should pay GST on their supply - why?

example ?
I wouldn't imagine there'd be too many products you can't already get in Aus. I could be wrong but atleast in my industry (action sports) 95% is available.
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One of the main reasons I buy online from OS is that there is so much that just plain isn't available here. Australian companies just don't do online well. Their service on line as well as B & M is bad!! I get things delivered from America, China and England faster than from Adelaide for example. Even the delivery costs are cheaper !!

It is most certainly possible to build relationships with online OS companies. They are so much more helpful in responding to questions .

I even get my glasses [eye] online . Email order with prescription, arrived at my door via DHL 4 days later! Multifocal , photo chromatic at a fracture of the cost and probably faster. Btw can't recommend DHL highly enough !!
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I go to Amazon's website, order goods costing AUD100 and supply my credit card details.

Amazon send details of my order to a distribution hub in Japan (for example). The goods are picked off the shelf, packed and addressed to me in Australia. The goods are then lodged with a freight forwarder or an International postal service. The goods are delivered to my door, following clearance through Customs under the low value import concession.

No GST is payable on the supply of the goods or the import.

What's the issue? Because they sell goods to an Australian all things should be subject to GST? Maybe it's not a level playing field but then again, it's true the world over. And in many respects the goods are >10% cheaper when bought from overseas online (even accounting for increased frieght costs), so it's not a GST issue anyway in some respects.

And what is to stop you, as an Australian retailer, taking orders locally, calling up a supplier in HK and getting them to post the goods direct from their warehouse to your customers? No GST on import, no GST on supply is goods are valued less than AUD 1,000.

What the recent media furore has shown is how slow Australian businesses have been to adapt and embrace a changing way of doing business, in the retail sector especially. The GST issue is easy to latch onto. (I still marvel at the antipathy people still have towards a VAT regime. FFS its the 21st century and most of the globe has a VAT system in place. Mind you, Australia still has the archaic FBT system, so no surprises really).

The real issue is that Australian businesses have generally be slow in analysing their supply chain processes and recognising the competitive advantages that simple restructuring could result in.

Hipswinger, if you were to acquire goods from an Australian wholesaler and then supply them to a customer in NZ, by way of export, your supply would be GST-free here in Australia (and also in NZ - subject to their $400 import threshold). Or is that an unlevel playing field for the Kiwis and their 15% GST rate?
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^^^That's drop shipping ????
Originally Posted by Blinky-Live-


BAHAHA, you sir - are a twit, have you ever met Di?

She celebrated the invention of the wheel by going clubbing
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DANCINGDI View Post


I even get my glasses [eye] online .

URL please
I was trying to send you a PM but the spam filter is stopping me
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Quote:

Originally Posted by horst View Post

URL please
I was trying to send you a PM but the spam filter is stopping me

Weird on the pm.

www.zennioptical.com. I love them. good quality , good selection, been buying from them for three years. The web address is US but the glasses came from China. I love that I can afford to have prescription sunglasses and reading glasses.

My multifocal prescription sunglasses $80 us delivered.



Sorry for the hijack people I
Originally Posted by Blinky-Live-


BAHAHA, you sir - are a twit, have you ever met Di?

She celebrated the invention of the wheel by going clubbing

Last edited by DANCINGDI: 09-Dec-10 at 11:46am

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DANCINGDI View Post

Weird on the pm.

Drey has embarked on a war on spam, they are just fine tuning the filtering, it is a little light on the trigger at the moment.

holy crap
I didn't know
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Quote:

Originally Posted by weekender View Post

IHipswinger, if you were to acquire goods from an Australian wholesaler and then supply them to a customer in NZ, by way of export, your supply would be GST-free here in Australia (and also in NZ - subject to their $400 import threshold). Or is that an unlevel playing field for the Kiwis and their 15% GST rate?

of course its unlevel.

why should i the retailer pay gst on my purchases on goods less than $1000, why should the consumer pay gst on purchases on goods less than $1000 ?

because i like to deal with local suppliers, and the consumer likes to buy from local retailer, we get penalised for it ?
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And that's the rub, we're now in a global market place. Consumers shopping habits for certain products will evolve and the geography of shopping has changed once and for all.

What would you suggest as a solution?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by hipswinger View Post

I buy wholesale (from Aus) pay gst, but claim back credit. I resell (in Aus) pay gst.
They buy wholesale (OS) pay whatever their sales tax is. They resell (in Aus) don't pay gst.

Not sure I understand you - retailers don't "pay" GST, they collect GST when they sell goods to the ultimate consumer and remit that to the tax office, less any credits for inputs.

As I noted above, this obviously doesn't apply to people selling stuff out of the back of cars, but I can't see that being a massive sector of the economy.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post

Not sure I understand you - retailers don't "pay" GST, they collect GST when they sell goods to the ultimate consumer and remit that to the tax office, less any credits for inputs..

Or not, as the case is with some of my more simple, former clients.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by weekender View Post

And that's the rub, we're now in a global market place. Consumers shopping habits for certain products will evolve and the geography of shopping has changed once and for all.

What would you suggest as a solution?

yep i'm in agreement.

i do wonder how the landscape will change for Aust retailers. we have been on our own for so long geographically, now the whole world is next door we've been left behind and uncompetitive.
The relationships between manafacturer>wholesaler>retailer is behing turned upside down atm in aus. The solution lies there, if it doesn't change within there, there are going to be alot of empty store fronts around and thats no good for anyone.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post

Not sure I understand you - retailers don't "pay" GST, they collect GST when they sell goods to the ultimate consumer and remit that to the tax office, less any credits for inputs.

.

i pay gst on my purchases.
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I dunno about the empty store fronts... different storefronts maybe. People will still buy certain goods in the flesh, so to speak.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by hipswinger View Post

i pay gst on my purchases.

and you claim input tax credits in respect of that GST, through your Business Activity Statement? Thus cost to your business is net of GST.
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Unless they are under the threshold and aren't registered for GST.
Originally Posted by Blinky-Live-


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Quote:

Originally Posted by DANCINGDI View Post

Unless they are under the threshold and aren't registered for GST.

Aye, well, naturally.... Hips indicated he did claim it back and charge GST on his domestic supplies.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by weekender View Post

I dunno about the empty store fronts... different storefronts maybe.

or same storefronts.
Just the same bigbranded stores in every town/city/centre.
money trumps loyalty quite easily these days.
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Very very interesting article , but the comments are wonderful ,!! http://www.theage.com.au/national/on...218-1913f.html

People are really pissed off about things like bad service, lack of choice etc. delivery etc. as well as high prices. I find it ironic that companies that shipped their manufacturing/call centres etc. of shore will now be losing out to online buyers

What a lot of people are saying is that they would be glad to pay GST under the $1000 because they would still be much better off. Australian businesses need to seriously look at the way they do business. !!
Originally Posted by Blinky-Live-


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Wanted to buy a pair of carhartt shorts from a certain shop in brisbane on friday. They were marked $149. Fuck thattttttt. Went online found em for $25us. Got 3 pairs delivered for $105.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by weekender View Post

What would you suggest as a solution?

The solution is to declare all products with a volumetric weight per unit of less than 5kg and cost per unit of less than $1000 GST-exempt.
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starting uni soon. the textbook i need for one of my subjects is $150 here, and $80 online inc delivery. f*k paying double the price just because its local.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by hipswinger View Post

or same storefronts.
Just the same bigbranded stores in every town/city/centre.
money trumps loyalty quite easily these days.

When you have a mortgage to pay and rising living expenses such as grocery, electricity and water... well then FUCK LOYALTY.

Thinking big picture does not help me keep the balance book in check.
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Aus retail is just too uncompetitive due to different margin models. Before everyone screams that B&M retailers are killing it because of higher prices, the margins are higher due to crazy higher fixed expenses. In my business, if i drop products below 25% I'm LOSING money, not even making money back !
When $$ has dropped we have been hit by manafacturers with price rises, i have never seen price drops when the $$ is high.
After having a phone conference this weekend, we can see small to medium sized retail falling over, and it is going to have a very serious ripple effect in our economy as its one of the biggest employers in the country.
The non GST issue is a pimple on an asshole compaired what is to come.
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what's the biggest cost - labour or rent?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by sydney3000 View Post

The solution is to declare all products with a volumetric weight per unit of less than 5kg and cost per unit of less than $1000 GST-exempt.

The average value of goods bought online from overseas and delivered to Australia is less than $100.
The compliance costs associated with dropping the threshold to even $250 would be enormous and would still not achieve the results that Gerry Norman and his cronies are blathering on about.
I'd suggest Gerry do some research and get the facts clear before pontificating.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by hipswinger View Post

Aus retail is just too uncompetitive due to different margin models. Before everyone screams that B&M retailers are killing it because of higher prices, the margins are higher due to crazy higher fixed expenses. In my business, if i drop products below 25% I'm LOSING money, not even making money back !
When $$ has dropped we have been hit by manafacturers with price rises, i have never seen price drops when the $$ is high.
After having a phone conference this weekend, we can see small to medium sized retail falling over, and it is going to have a very serious ripple effect in our economy as its one of the biggest employers in the country.
The non GST issue is a pimple on an asshole compaired what is to come.

Not even talking about higher prices, I am prepared to pay a premium to support Australian businesses. What I am talking about is just sheer incompetence and lack of service. Like the company I bought some taps from in Sydney over 2 weeks ago. No taps , no returned phone calls, no refund. I give loyalty to those who earn it. I'm pretty pissed off at the moment.

The taps I bought from china , which is probably where the ones I ordered here are coming from anyway, delivered within the week . I bought from china because they simply weren't available here.

Btw , if the dollar is high it makes it much cheaper for retailers to buy from overseas manufacturers. It is only a problem if you are buying from Australian manufacturers and if you are selling Australian made goods I want to know where you are because I can't find anything Australian made. And I look !!
Originally Posted by Blinky-Live-


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Quote:

Originally Posted by gravyishot View Post

what's the biggest cost - labour or rent?

labour, but rent is increasing rapidly.

labour is/will be fisrt to get cut. I have never cut shifts pre xmas before, this year is the first.

we are stuck with rents.

i'm on the strip and am still paying nearly $400/m2. Same store rents in US are more than half that !!
Shopping centres are a whole other story 1
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Last edited by hipswinger: 20-Dec-10 at 11:07am

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DANCINGDI View Post

Not even talking about higher prices, I am prepared to pay a premium to support Australian businesses. What I am talking about is just sheer incompetence and lack of service. Like the company I bought some taps from in Sydney over 2 weeks ago. No taps , no returned phone calls, no refund. I give loyalty to those who earn it. I'm pretty pissed off at the moment.

The taps I bought from china , which is probably where the ones I ordered here are coming from anyway, delivered within the week . I bought from china because they simply weren't available here.

Btw , if the dollar is high it makes it much cheaper for retailers to buy from overseas manufacturers. It is only a problem if you are buying from Australian manufacturers and if you are selling Australian made goods I want to know where you are because I can't find anything Australian made. And I look !!

yep, service is the key, i don't blame you for looking elsewhere.
i sell mostly Aus branded goods made OS.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by weekender View Post

The average value of goods bought online from overseas and delivered to Australia is less than $100.
The compliance costs associated with dropping the threshold to even $250 would be enormous and would still not achieve the results that Gerry Norman and his cronies are blathering on about.
I'd suggest Gerry do some research and get the facts clear before pontificating.

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/infor...-not-work.html

You should read my solution again. I wasn't talking about the GST threshold on imports. I was talking about a GST exemption on locally sold goods to be brought into sync with the GST threshold on imports.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by sydney3000 View Post

You should read my solution again. I wasn't talking about the GST threshold on imports. I was talking about a GST exemption on locally sold goods to be brought into sync with the GST threshold on imports.

You want the exemption to include locally sold goods like, say, hot takeaway food, where it is most unlikely that people are evading GST by buying that food from overseas and having it posted to them?

You post some utter guff but even by your standards, that's an impressively dopey piece of "baby out with the bath water" illogic. How are you going to fund it, just out of interest?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by legal-affairs View Post

How are you going to fund it, just out of interest?

Raise the GST.

The point is: "There is no solution since there is no problem." Businesses wish to perpetuate profit growth within a non-perpetual environment. We hit the limit.

Last edited by sydney3000: 20-Dec-10 at 06:23pm

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Have a look at the price of your typical brand name pair of shoes (ecco, camper) at myer. Then compare at shoes.com. We are being totally screwed by the retailers here. Fuck them. I'll take my business overseas. They pretty much send their profit overseas anyway.

ie. Myer is mostly owner by NewBridge Capital, based in California. Profits go to the USA.

And Harvey Norman has invested majorly in Ireland, there are stores all over the place there. Ireland has tanked, his stores are in trouble. He is merely flailing out looking for extra money due to his poor investments and decision making.

Also, hipocrisy much ?
http://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8176188


Retailer Harvey Norman is set to launch a Chinese-based website in a bid to help Australian customers avoid paying GST on sales.

Harvey Norman chairman, Gerry Harvey, told the website Channelnews that it was a “brilliant” idea to keep the company competitive with foreign sites that already give customers the GST break. While Mr Harvey did not announce a launch date for the new site, he did confirm it would be launched “shortly.”
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post

Have a look at the price of your typical brand name pair of shoes (ecco, camper) at myer. Then compare at shoes.com. We are being totally screwed by the retailers here. Fuck them. I'll take my business overseas. They pretty much send their profit overseas anyway.

typical ignorant attitude. In alot of cases, OS prices are equivalent to Aust wholesale prices.
Like i said before, if this doesn't change, there is going to be a hell of a lot of people, and i'm talking 1000's outa work as B&M retail gets eroded away.
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B @ M retail needs to look at itself.
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Ignorant? I spend 3 months a year travelling overseas. I just got back from Ireland, South Jersey and NYC. I went to the Jersey Shore outlet mall, the largest in the world, and I bought shit. Why? Because when you can buy Vans sneakers for $20 USD, and North Face jackets for $40 USD, and then you come back here and see the same product for $129.95 AUD and $180 AUD respectively, you see how much we are being ripped off.

Just go to shoes.com and have a look. Or Jeans, for example, have a look at shopbot.com and then compare the prices to retail here.

Next time you are in the USA, go to Macys (equivalent to David Jones or a better Myer) and look around. The prices are amazingly cheap compared to here. I have a Guess jacket I paid $100 USD for in the sales. I saw the same jacket here in Myer for, I kid you not, $500 AUD.
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mate, its not just you that is being ripped off. My point is that you think retailers are buying product for wholesale prices like OS and throwing a massive margin on but its not the case.
Things will change here, but it's going to hurt.
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I work in the supply chain across a variety of industries. When I travel for work, it is usually to manufacturing and distribution centres in out of the way towns like Blue City Ohio and Leiden NL or places 100k west of Tokyo. I'm probably more aware of upstream costs, transport charges, warehousing and costs than most people - and I still think the consumers here are being ripped off.
Hopped in the car and torpe'ed to the shack
Of Shaheed, "We gotta go back" when he said
"Why?" I said, "We gotta go
'Cause I left my wallet in El Segundo"

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post

I work in the supply chain across a variety of industries. When I travel for work, it is usually to manufacturing and distribution centres in out of the way towns like Blue City Ohio and Leiden NL or places 100k west of Tokyo. I'm probably more aware of upstream costs, transport charges, warehousing and costs than most people - and I still think the consumers here are being ripped off.

Hear, hear.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post

I work in the supply chain across a variety of industries. When I travel for work, it is usually to manufacturing and distribution centres in out of the way towns like Blue City Ohio and Leiden NL or places 100k west of Tokyo. I'm probably more aware of upstream costs, transport charges, warehousing and costs than most people - and I still think the consumers here are being ripped off.

but who are they being ripped off by in your opinion ?
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I'll give you a hint - it's this side of the customs/bio-security checkpoint.
Hopped in the car and torpe'ed to the shack
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post

I'll give you a hint - it's this side of the customs/bio-security checkpoint.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post

ie. Myer is mostly owner by NewBridge Capital, based in California. Profits go to the USA.

Err, you must have been overseas when it floated, chief. It's a listed public company again.
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