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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicy View Post

dudes! the end result of any set should be a happy crowd enjoying THE MUSIC. it doesn't matter what the DJ does. instead they should concentrate on how they can improve their set in any possible way. for some this is learning how to scratch and beat juggle. for others it means learning how to use DVS or live.

the DJ who's better will get a big cheer from the crowd and a grooving dancefloor, regardless of whether they use vinyl or software.

Dude I totally agree with your post.

But what i'm trying to say DJing has come along way in terms of teechnique and technology.

I'm using oldschool technology on most occasions and I still haven't mastered. Alot of people jump on the new technology and say why it's better but don't use it to better themselves but more so to cut corners and make things easier. And I guess what is sad is the foundation of DJing to a certain extent is being lost.

I dunno I might not be making any sense now.
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Much like people using Abelton to simply play a DJ set with no extra trickery...BORING!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi View Post

Much like people using Abelton to simply play a DJ set with no extra trickery...BORING!

You play breakbeat @ Brown Alley. Hook me up with a gig cvnt!
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Not my gig, bro!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ravs View Post

Dude I totally agree with your post.

But what i'm trying to say DJing has come along way in terms of teechnique and technology.

I'm using oldschool technology on most occasions and I still haven't mastered. Alot of people jump on the new technology and say why it's better but don't use it to better themselves but more so to cut corners and make things easier. And I guess what is sad is the foundation of DJing to a certain extent is being lost.

I dunno I might not be making any sense now.

makes many sense

it gives them more time to social network for gigs
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ravs View Post

Dude I totally agree with your post.

But what i'm trying to say DJing has come along way in terms of teechnique and technology.

I'm using oldschool technology on most occasions and I still haven't mastered. Alot of people jump on the new technology and say why it's better but don't use it to better themselves but more so to cut corners and make things easier. And I guess what is sad is the foundation of DJing to a certain extent is being lost.

I dunno I might not be making any sense now.

ah yeah that's true and that shit is sad
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this is fuckin mad

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicy View Post

dudes! the end result of any set should be a happy crowd enjoying THE MUSIC. it doesn't matter what the DJ does.

disagree. i love the whole art form of dj'ing. I remember watching Van Dieman the techno dude about 5 or 6 years ago he was rippin it up on 3 decks at this little club and u can see a few people up front just watching him mix. i head up there and i'm like "man this dude is fuk'n awesome" and the dude i'm talking too goes "yeah and he's not even using headphones".

I was gobsmacked, shocked beyond belief. It made my night watching this dude rip it up 3 decks with no headphones to help him que tracks. That shit just makes me want to party harder and puts an even bigger smile on my face I grabbed me mate and i'm like "fuk u gotta check this out"......

Now the same set but if he had of used auto sync i doubt i'd have even remembered that night by now.
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^^^

I guess it begs the question ... if they step up and just press play ... as long as the music is right, then it's ALL right?! alright?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Radic View Post

Now the same set but if he had of used auto sync i doubt i'd have even remembered that night by now.

But with auto sync would of it been the same set? The time it took him to be able to beat match like he did would of been spent learning other creative tricks.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by camlv View Post

But with auto sync would of it been the same set? The time it took him to be able to beat match like he did would of been spent learning other creative tricks.


i think this is at the crux of the issue here ... where are the creative tricks?

applying a filter doesn't equate to creativity.

the creativity that most show in working with loops on CDJs and DVS pales in comparison to jugging with doubles of a plate.

kids wanna buy gear and just be able to bash out beat matched sets ... and that's where it ends for a lot of them.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by camlv View Post

But with auto sync would of it been the same set? The time it took him to be able to beat match like he did would of been spent learning other creative tricks.

Still waiting to hear all these "creative tricks" from digital djs... Other than "I got this hi hat from track A and Im looping it brah while im mixing two other tracks" ... NOW GET READY FOR SOME MUTHAFUCKN FLANGE!!! Now I appreciate that and don't think it is shit.. But it's hardly wow or uber creative. It seems like a justification for going down the digital path. You don't really need to do that imo, I understand why someone would go down that path, Im considering it myself. Let's face it, it's easier, and makes mixing 3 or 4 tracks really easy and that is a lot of fun. It would be really fucking hard to do otherwise. I can mix 3 tops, otherwise it usually sounds too cluttered (4 is too much of a head fuck for me, so props to anyone who can). Going digital, through looping, would help me break that up and make it sound more presentable, that's why I am strongly considering getting an S4 or something.

As Djs I think we should remember that the real creative element of it all, is the producers. We can be a bit creative in our presentation of it all, but at the end of the day, we are just presenting peoples creativity (unless we scratch and do that all sampling bit). That is not to say djs aren't relevant at all. Producers need djs, just like djs need producers. Not all producers can dj very well and not all djs can produce well.

The end result is the most important. But that is not to say that the processes involved are sometimes harder than the other and respect should be payed to those that are harder imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub View Post


the creativity that most show in working with loops on CDJs and DVS pales in comparison to jugging with doubles of a plate.


Looping on a few cdjs and mixing those, and/or using doubles of a track with another loop on a cdj, cutting it up. is just as skillfull imo. Loads of techno guys used to use locked grooves which is basically the same.

DVS no it isn't as skillful by a fairway.

Most of the time though, when I play out, I spend more time picking the right track next, then worrying about doing a heap of trickery.
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lol this conversation is going around in circles!
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Loops, tricks, effects...what the fuck happened to just playing good tracks?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi View Post

Loops, tricks, effects...what the fuck happened to just playing good tracks?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpy View Post

David Guetta pipped up

He does neither loops, tricks or effects, nor does he play good songs.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Oli-G View Post



Looping on a few cdjs and mixing those, and/or using doubles of a track with another loop on a cdj, cutting it up. is just as skillfull imo. Loads of techno guys used to use locked grooves which is basically the same.

locked grooves on vinyl are easily the same as punching loops on CDJs or DVS ... but juggling doubles of a 12" certainly does require more skill though.
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so, are you saying you're some sort of superior motherfucker just because you still play vinyl and have doubles and can use them? what's with the elitism? pretty shit attitude imo.
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i didn't say that at all.

It's in reference to utlising the technology on hand. the new technology now is simply replicating what people used to do with their own 2 hands rather than relying on algorithms and buttons to do it for you.

I use digital ... i rarely fuk around with doubles (but i can make a hash job of it). ..


what i'm addressing is the creativity applied to the technology.

loops, flanging, delay, phasing can all be done with 2 copies of the same 12" ... and a lot of modern technology simply replicates these, with more convenience. So considering that point, you'd consider that there would be even more room for creative expansion considering the tools on hand.

We're still waiting for that epoch IMO
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Discovering phasing with a double by accident was one of the most exciting moments of DJing for me...
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for me it was mixing kicks one beat out of time, or one beat early, it kinda reverses the actual melody of the track mixed out, kinda like syncopation but doing it with records.
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NI should delete the Sync function from the S4 and all software

That way, at least you still have to beatmatch properly and retain some old school feel to the whole DJ experience.

Its just too easy otherwise, and even a complete retard could knock out a mix.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by djanthonykirby View Post

NI should delete the Sync function from the S4 and all software

That way, at least you still have to beatmatch properly and retain some old school feel to the whole DJ experience.

Its just too easy otherwise, and even a complete retard could knock out a mix.

The thing is that they still play crap music

I really dont care if someone's using sync, as long as the music's good. Which generally it's not.
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fair point pomrocks...

too easy nowadays to download the top 10 and call yourself a DJ.

I have an S4 myself - only just got it after a few years away, but I still believe in the old beatmatching and good tune selection.
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As if beat matching and holding a beat is that hard anyway..?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by djanthonykirby View Post

too easy nowadays to download the top 10 and call yourself a DJ.


This....
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Quote:

Originally Posted by macc4 View Post

only digital djs get bored with such arguments

do you have a technics sticker on your cd case?

funny bastard
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimma View Post

As if beat matching and holding a beat is that hard anyway..?

With respect, ask most 'new' digital DJ's (i.e. those who have not previously used CDJ's/1210's) and I bet they could not use a set of 1210's or CDJ's if their life depended on it.

That's all I am saying.

I am all for the technology, but it cant be abused at the mercy of others who had crafted their art through hard work and understanding of what makes it happen.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub View Post

i didn't say that at all.

It's in reference to utlising the technology on hand. the new technology now is simply replicating what people used to do with their own 2 hands rather than relying on algorithms and buttons to do it for you.

I use digital ... i rarely fuk around with doubles (but i can make a hash job of it). ..


what i'm addressing is the creativity applied to the technology.

loops, flanging, delay, phasing can all be done with 2 copies of the same 12" ... and a lot of modern technology simply replicates these, with more convenience. So considering that point, you'd consider that there would be even more room for creative expansion considering the tools on hand.

We're still waiting for that epoch IMO

oops sorry! i read your previous comment the wrong way by the looks of it. agreed on the above points though.

anyway, on a different note (different key? heh!), i am amazed at how passionate we all get about this topic. when you look at the big picture, DJing in its purest form is playing the right tracks at the right time, and just because someone decades later invented scratching, then someone else invented a whole heap of technology that can do magic tricks, doesn't change that fact. ask francois k! half the time he doesn't even give a shit about mixing, yet he is regarded as one of the greatest DJs in history.

doing magic tricks with technology is fun, as is scratching. fun is also what DJing should be!
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I really don't see the point in this argument, correct me if I wrong but don't the new cdj's display the bpm as a decimal point anyway like 125.1 etc So with a quick flick of the pitch fader the tracks are pretty much the same bpm. Not really any different to hitting an auto sync button is it?

Only thing that shits me is seeing guys dj'n without head phones. How can you not monitor and preview your music?
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man you dont even need a .1 on the bpm readout you can just go 6% slide till it changes number and your in the right range aslong as you cued on beat, if you miss use the jog if kids cant do that im worried. i mean you still should have a grasp on beatmatching.

I also doubt most of these guys that are like i can be more creative dont spend time making sure the tracks are beatgridded correctly so when they try be mega cool fancy tricks and cant do it instantly they just give up.

tristan dude i see heap of dudes dj with out headphones because they cue on the breakdowns and always use the same songs.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ravs View Post

Dude I totally agree with your post.

But what i'm trying to say DJing has come along way in terms of teechnique and technology.

I'm using oldschool technology on most occasions and I still haven't mastered. Alot of people jump on the new technology and say why it's better but don't use it to better themselves but more so to cut corners and make things easier. And I guess what is sad is the foundation of DJing to a certain extent is being lost.

I dunno I might not be making any sense now.

I feel exactly the same way. I'm a Traktor Scratch (controlled with CDJs) user and will happily tell anyone who'll listen why I love using it and why I'm happy to have switched over to it, but at the same time, I think if you can't teach yourself to mix manually before you "step up" to the new forms of technology, you're just cheapening the whole concept of DJing.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub View Post

kids wanna buy gear and just be able to bash out beat matched sets ... and that's where it ends for a lot of them.

Well that's not the technology's fault. That's just kids being lazy and shit.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimma View Post

As if beat matching and holding a beat is that hard anyway..?

Exactly, yet this is something that happened to me in a club a couple of months ago...

The DJ to follow me brought his laptop etc to the booth to start setting it up and we got to chatting. He basically told me that he'd moved to Traktor so that he could focus on harmonics and not have to worry about beatmatching, which he claimed was easy anyway.

First thing that I did not like was he pre-prepared playlist... Something about this bugged me. I'm not talking about having a few ideas for tracks that might go together well or build up to a certain vibe, rather he had every track in order that he was going to play for his entire set. Why not just pre-record it before coming then..?

As if that wasn't bad enough, when the time came for him to mix into my last track, he failed to beatmatch the two tracks and trainwrecked the mix, despite claiming that he had mastered this simple skill. It was truly horrible, not at all helped by the way this guy was staring at the corner and bobbing his head, not noticing the ridiculously prominent double kick!

Anyway, rant over. Is this something that I deserve to be frustrated by? Whatever happened to finding the groove in music? We may as well just record mix CDs if this is the way that things are going.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wowk View Post

I think if you can't teach yourself to mix manually before you "step up" to the new forms of technology, you're just cheapening the whole concept of DJing.

This is exactly right. It's making an absolute mockery of something that we in this thread are clearly very passionate about. Still, this is just a forum out in the middle of cyberspace, so it's probably good for nothing better than giving us a place to vent.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by deejaydee View Post

Exactly, yet this is something that happened to me in a club a couple of months ago...

The DJ to follow me brought his laptop etc to the booth to start setting it up and we got to chatting. He basically told me that he'd moved to Traktor so that he could focus on harmonics and not have to worry about beatmatching, which he claimed was easy anyway.

First thing that I did not like was he pre-prepared playlist... Something about this bugged me. I'm not talking about having a few ideas for tracks that might go together well or build up to a certain vibe, rather he had every track in order that he was going to play for his entire set. Why not just pre-record it before coming then..?

As if that wasn't bad enough, when the time came for him to mix into my last track, he failed to beatmatch the two tracks and trainwrecked the mix, despite claiming that he had mastered this simple skill. It was truly horrible, not at all helped by the way this guy was staring at the corner and bobbing his head, not noticing the ridiculously prominent double kick!

Anyway, rant over. Is this something that I deserve to be frustrated by? Whatever happened to finding the groove in music? We may as well just record mix CDs if this is the way that things are going.

this is exactly what i try to say. there is no groove in these new dudes.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wowk View Post

I feel exactly the same way. I'm a Traktor Scratch (controlled with CDJs) user and will happily tell anyone who'll listen why I love using it and why I'm happy to have switched over to it, but at the same time, I think if you can't teach yourself to mix manually before you "step up" to the new forms of technology, you're just cheapening the whole concept of DJing.

I'd really love to move over to traktor, just for the simple fact that i'm over burning cd's
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That's why I've previously never really used cdj's ( it would be a mess) and stuck with a vinyl/serato set up or midi controller. I also find cd control with serato a bit wack unless there is native support. But I am a bit of a tech tard lol
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan W View Post

I really don't see the point in this argument, correct me if I wrong but don't the new cdj's display the bpm as a decimal point anyway like 125.1 etc So with a quick flick of the pitch fader the tracks are pretty much the same bpm. Not really any different to hitting an auto sync button is it?

No CDJs I’ve used show the BPM to decimal places…perhaps the 900’s and 2000’s do, but the 400’s, 800’s and 1000’s don’t.
But what the cheaters do is slowly move the pitch till it JUST clicks from 126 to 127, then you can do the same on the other deck and bob’s your aunty, they’re more or less matched.

Fucking boring either way, matching, mixing and holding the mix is the best part of DJing
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Quote:

Originally Posted by deejaydee View Post

Exactly, yet this is something that happened to me in a club a couple of months ago...

The DJ to follow me brought his laptop etc to the booth to start setting it up and we got to chatting. He basically told me that he'd moved to Traktor so that he could focus on harmonics and not have to worry about beatmatching, which he claimed was easy anyway.

First thing that I did not like was he pre-prepared playlist... Something about this bugged me. I'm not talking about having a few ideas for tracks that might go together well or build up to a certain vibe, rather he had every track in order that he was going to play for his entire set. Why not just pre-record it before coming then..?

As if that wasn't bad enough, when the time came for him to mix into my last track, he failed to beatmatch the two tracks and trainwrecked the mix, despite claiming that he had mastered this simple skill. It was truly horrible, not at all helped by the way this guy was staring at the corner and bobbing his head, not noticing the ridiculously prominent double kick!

Anyway, rant over. Is this something that I deserve to be frustrated by? Whatever happened to finding the groove in music? We may as well just record mix CDs if this is the way that things are going.

he was just a shit ****. sorry to hear about your bad experience. please don't let that put you off technology. shit ****s and technology are two different things and as such should be treated differently.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi View Post

No CDJs I’ve used show the BPM to decimal places…perhaps the 900’s and 2000’s do, but the 400’s, 800’s and 1000’s don’t.
But what the cheaters do is slowly move the pitch till it JUST clicks from 126 to 127, then you can do the same on the other deck and bob’s your aunty, they’re more or less matched.

Fucking boring either way, matching, mixing and holding the mix is the best part of DJing

wait, what?

http://www.pioneer-latin.com/downloa...00_facered.jpg
http://www.skratchworx.com/images/Pi...800MK2_top.jpg
http://www.skratchworx.com/images/Pi...000MK3_top.jpg

not just 1 decimal place, but two!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by deejaydee View Post

He basically told me that he'd moved to Traktor so that he could focus on harmonics and not have to worry about beatmatching, which he claimed was easy anyway.

lol what? so he could focus on harmonics?


err...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by muse View Post

lol what? so he could focus on harmonics?


err...

Yep, what an absolute load...
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BPM, not Tempo (as in Pitch Percentage), doofus...all I see s a lil box with 125 BPM...no decimal places here, move along folks!
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^^ yeah lol, pretty sure the only cdj's that show bpm in decimals are the new 350's and you can lock in a set bpm so all songs you play adjust to that set bpm. Not like it matters, you can just do that small trick that kiwi mentioned to do the exact same thing on a 900 or 2000.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by pomrocks View Post

I'd really love to move over to traktor, just for the simple fact that i'm over burning cd's

That was one of my major motivations for making the switch

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Originally Posted by Psyentist

More than 23 Australians like techno (and I can prove it)...
http://soundcloud.com/groups/techno-fans-australia

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Random_Kiwi View Post

Fucking boring either way, matching, mixing and holding the mix is the best part of DJing

Programming and reading the crowd/connecting with them (not by doing jJesus poses, by getting inside their heads with your music) is way more fun than beatmatching IMO. Beatmatching is a necessary skill, but not the most exciting part of DJing by a long way for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyentist

More than 23 Australians like techno (and I can prove it)...
http://soundcloud.com/groups/techno-fans-australia

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I don't DJ to crowds
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Still, wouldn't it be boring to just click sync and bring in the next track? Beatmatching at least gives you something to do between transitions...

I'll never use that button.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by deejaydee View Post

Still, wouldn't it be boring to just click sync and bring in the next track? Beatmatching at least gives you something to do between transitions...

I'll never use that button.

If that's all you do sure, but what if you're mixing multiple tracks, adding effects, throwing in vocals and synth lines, remixing on the fly, playing an instrument, and many other things?

It's the end result that counts.
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