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How do I avoid being audited?

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are all the licenses covered by the club or is there something that we are djs need to be getting ??
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Bressos, the license we have in our venues, covers us to play music and the right (basically) to have you playing. It does not cover you though (even though we pay for it)
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does auditing happen often how would they check all you receipts if u only buy from say beatport? would they just go through ur download history ??
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub View Post

sure am ... what difference does that make?

(with tha addition on a nanoKontrol and the Kontrol X1 i can now rock out without my decks )

See previous two posts that mention format shift.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub View Post

sure am ... what difference does that make?

You're format shifting, which is illegal...technically...technically pretty retarded, but there you go!
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so when i was mixing with CDs with DLd tracks before it wasn't an issue?!


Format shifting is a storm in a teacup ... those who make the rules will realise the un-enforceability of such pedantry.


point stands ... buy your music .. stay safe
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub View Post



Format shifting is a storm in a teacup ... those who make the rules will realise the un-enforceability of such pedantry.


Yes. Those who make the rules probably don't understand what format shifting is though.
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There's a whole lot of BS and fear mongering going on with this ... Dennis is acutely exacerbating the situation.

http://www.mipi.com.au/Changes-to-copyright.html

My move to Traktor is not affected by format shifting


but then there's this


"• Copies of sound recordings are to be used for your own private and domestic use. They must not be played
publicly or lent to friends and acquaintances. You may, however, lend copies you have made to members of your family and
household."


Which is incredibly stupid and i wish them all the best in policing this ... i raise my middle finger at this and i think it's in every other DJ's best interest to do the same. They're seriously going to have to fine 90% of DJs out there.
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Exactly! It's pretty fucking retarded
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its all retarded but what are you going to do ?


the format shift licence is out there and you have to report to them where you BUY your music, who you play to/where you play, what songs you play and what format
its simple enough, if thats not good enough, then you read the format shift licence

...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post

its all retarded but what are you going to do ?


I'm going to keep on doing what i'm currently doing.




Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post

the format shift licence is out there and you have to report to them where you BUY your music, who you play to/where you play, what songs you play and what format
its simple enough, if thats not good enough, then you read the format shift licence

...


bite me
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post

its all retarded but what are you going to do ?


the format shift licence is out there and you have to report to them where you BUY your music, who you play to/where you play, what songs you play and what format
its simple enough, if thats not good enough, then you read the format shift licence

...

Menace, I'm going to be playing trance to the birds and the bees at around 9.30pm tonight using vinyl stolen from Beatport. Can you please advise your mates this?

Seriously Menace sounds like a security guard that couldn't make it into the police force.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by bressos View Post

does auditing happen often how would they check all you receipts if u only buy from say beatport? would they just go through ur download history ??

They do audit. We have them randomly come through my venues every now and then. We usully hold them at the door and let the DJ they are coming in, so no probs. Legally, I should be asking each DJ to submit a play list each night and then if requested, we have to submit it. There is a high profile nightclub in Australia that got done with this and the PPCA actually made them bankrupt, forcing a multi million dollar sale of the venue and everyone lost their jobs, all over a DJ with a set list. Happened in 2005.
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hahaha joke on them i rename all trakc so not original name so when submit tracklist would say like this

1. biggbutt
2. stinkypoop
3. gone get a smoke
4. toilets time
5. bigg rendition
6. boner club
I am reporting people who call me marshy or another name you have been warn
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Haha boner club. Where can I get that track?
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yes they do Audit and there isnt a thing you can do (just be legal and dont cry like a baby on forums like this)
they have people that WATCH it all, all the time, just to catch out djs and club owners

hey you name them whatever you like they will want reciepts as well if they are not satisfided then they will do more
less you do to upset them the more they will keep well away from you....
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Funkedub View Post

but then there's this

"• Copies of sound recordings are to be used for your own private and domestic use. They must not be played
publicly or lent to friends and acquaintances. You may, however, lend copies you have made to members of your family and
household."


Which is incredibly stupid and i wish them all the best in policing this ... i raise my middle finger at this and i think it's in every other DJ's best interest to do the same. They're seriously going to have to fine 90% of DJs out there.

Ok - I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty certain this is just the standard 'no public broadcast' license that has been included with all content (music, movies) since I can remember. It's ALWAYS been this way.

As others have said, what is supposed to happen is that the club or event you're playing at holds a license with the PPCA for public performance of recorded music. That covers you for the public performance.

AFAIK, there's no license you can buy from a label or distributor that gives you public performance rights for that specific track - at least not one that's intended for the general public (ie. there are licenses purchased to include music in advertising, movies etc).

The format shifting is another matter again - but in the end, if you show that you can show that you're buying your music, I doubt you're going to be in trouble (no matter what medium it's stored on).

But remember, it is/was illegal to swap tapes with friends and record stuff off TV onto VHS. THey used to freak out about that stuff too, but nobody ever went to jail over it. If you're really concerned, call AMCOS and talk to them about it.
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but seriously... how much of it actually goes back to the artists who allegedly had their intellectual property stolen - I would say zero especially for the electronic music industry. The fines would get all absorbed in "admin fees" much like all those charity organisations who were caught out
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Quote:

Originally Posted by superman_spas View Post

but seriously... how much of it actually goes back to the artists who allegedly had their intellectual property stolen - I would say zero especially for the electronic music industry. The fines would get all absorbed in "admin fees" much like all those charity organisations who were caught out

I remember there was a huge battle that happened a while ago against a record label representing an artist who had his music "stolen".

The result was like hundreds of thousands of dollars in damages... and the artist saw something like 50 cents.

Copyright sharks never have "protecting the artist" in mind when they file charges, they are just thinking about an easy way to line their own wallets.
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may be outdated but...

"At present, royalties distributed by the PPCA from nightclub fees are based on the ARIA dance charts."

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/nightclubs-to...#ixzz1C3Cn7Lmh

.. so basically all your money belong to David Guetta and Rihanna

Last edited by superman_spas: 25-Jan-11 at 10:56pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Damionpell View Post

They do audit. We have them randomly come through my venues every now and then. We usully hold them at the door and let the DJ they are coming in, so no probs. Legally, I should be asking each DJ to submit a play list each night and then if requested, we have to submit it. There is a high profile nightclub in Australia that got done with this and the PPCA actually made them bankrupt, forcing a multi million dollar sale of the venue and everyone lost their jobs, all over a DJ with a set list. Happened in 2005.

proof or gtfo

at the scaremongering ITT

Quote:

Originally Posted by puretrance89 View Post

My muzza's are more tanked up than your muzzas!

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ok all just had word from a mate about this audit stuff here is what he recieved so FAR!!!

Quote:

Dear Mr. Young,

If you own the original recordings, we have no problem with you putting
them onto another recordable media type. The problem we have is when Djs buy
one copy and then burn several copies and distribute them to other Djs or if they have a multi dj setup.
Piracy refers to the illegal duplication and distribution of sound recordings.
As long as the recordings are not being distributed or uploaded whatsoever,
you should not run into any problems with us!.

As far as keeping the originals on site, that is not necessary.
We do not have a task force that goes around actively pursing
mobile DJ units (unless we get word of blatant piracy).

Sincerely,

Brian
Anti-Piracy Unit
MIPI

so hope that helps - now I will admit I have seen this for the first time as well
it does have a sinister feel about it but we can only hope they dont
say one thing and then do another....
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Oh so you have a friend in MIPI. All your posturing and scare mongering makes sense now.

I haven't received a cent from people pirating my shit so why should I give a fuck about this retarded wankery? It's all greedy record label bullshit that distributes the wealth unfairly.

So it's capitalism in a microcosm working it's magic grubby little fingers.
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The lawsuits do deter (to some extent) people from further piracy. So what you might not 'gain', per se, the lawsuits will be 'preventing' through scare tactics.
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umm why would you friend call you mr young hahaha, dude just cause person email you doesnt make them friends.
I am reporting people who call me marshy or another name you have been warn
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Misunderstanding?
@SlicyDicer; johnbiggs: I believe he might be suggesting that he has a mate 'Mr Young' received the communique from 'Brian' at MIPI...
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Your use of grammar and ability to spell definitely detract from the points that you're trying to make.
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well when you come off sounding like an illiterate 12yo know-it-all troll, no one's going to take you seriously

Quote:

Originally Posted by puretrance89 View Post

My muzza's are more tanked up than your muzzas!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnbiggs View Post

umm why would you friend call you mr young hahaha, dude just cause person email you doesnt make them friends.

I thought we were cool biggsy
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So... after all this, the verdict is that provided you are buying your music legally and either licenced yourself or playing in licenced premises, even the Copyright Nazis won't give a fuck about how you store your music, and all the scaremongering above over format shifting was just that?

It only makes sense that they don't bother pursuing DJs over format shifting. At the end of the day, draconian laws like this are impossible to abide by. I buy 95% my music from Trackitdown/Beatport/whatever, and about 5% on vinyl. If I can't burn my Mp3s as CD-Audio, I'd be in a bit of a tight spot on that rare occasion I rock up in a club to find nothing but CDJ1000MK2s.
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Ok, so what we've gathered is:

- If you are to DJ at a nightclub (or any other venue) that already has an APRA license, you don't need any other license to DJ, but...

- You do need a 'format shift' license for reproduction of sound recordings to a hard-drive system for the purpose of providing a DJ service.

So my next question is, is there a license to convert legitimately downloaded music (MP3s) to a CD for providing a DJ service? (i.e to play out at a nightclub). If so, what's it called? As the format shift license only seems to cover from CDs to Hard-drives...
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fender09 ... just don't worry about it ... seriously ... forget it ... ignore it ... move on ...
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.....

Quote:

General Manager of MIPI says, "Our surveillance programs run 7x days a week and investigators work a 24x hour roster period. This means we get to cover a lot of ground. We average an arrest every two weeks. By way of example, we currently have over 134 DJs, Jukebox operators and venues (and their operators) in the process of being prosecuted civilly. A further 50 or more Dj's are awaiting criminal prosecution from all over Australia. Over 250 notices have been served in the past year for MP3 piracy alone."

"Apart from issuing fines, prosecutors can confiscate all the equipment involved (eg: CD Players, Amps, Speakers, Whole Computers etc) for destruction. Even if you are lucky enough to convince a court that you should get some equipment back, you can be sure that it will have been seized for so long that it is out of fashion or superseded!"

"At any given time, MIPI is able to identify current or emerging trends in infringing behaviour. This is one of the things that make us so successful. At present there is a real problem with operators and venues using hard drives to play illegally copied music and, no matter which way you view it, this is illegal. Over the years, our investigators have heard every conceivable excuse for this form of piracy."

"Yes, using hard drives to play copied music without the authorisation of the copyright owner is piracy, no matter what your explanation. The sheer size of the problem here has resulted in MIPI adopting newer approaches to piracy."

"We recently undertook undercover sting operations targeting Dj's, Clubs, Venues and jukebox operators in Melbourne and Perth, we will be taking the operation on the road again real soon. So put simply, you will never know if your customer is just that, or the anti-piracy investigation unit coming for you."

.....
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I'm loving how you're just quoting what they say, rather than providing the legal proof

Quote:

Originally Posted by puretrance89 View Post

My muzza's are more tanked up than your muzzas!

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why should I thats your job not mine

I dont have to look over my shoulder when working
or thinking they will have evidence to look at my home

so thats all your problem..... I just show what they said they will do when they decide to do it
at anytime anyday anywhere...


must be making you scared then! if you reply like you have!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post


so thats all your problem.....



not really ... no

You're desperately and repeatedly trying to make it a problem for people around here, but i ain't buying it. I'm not sure what your exact agenda is here, but it's pretty tedious.


Is it that you're an older mobile DJ and resent the younger generation of club orientated DJ and want to rain on their parade?

Are you simply just an old broken record?

Are you a chronic troll?

Do you have a vested interest in MIPI proceedings?

I just don't get it
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post

why should I thats your job not mine

I dont have to look over my shoulder when working
or thinking they will have evidence to look at my home

so thats all your problem..... I just show what they said they will do when they decide to do it
at anytime anyday anywhere...


must be making you scared then! if you reply like you have!

But Dennis, you're still a
Playing at;


Gigs & stuff - Dave Stuart - DJ Page


SHRUG
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yeah whatever you think!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post

yeah whatever you think!

I'm only going off what YOU said

But then again you obviously believe downloading movies is acceptable
Playing at;


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I've been doing some reading on this issue, and with all these 'threats' going on from MIPI, it's quite astonishing how concealed this whole licensing process is.

There's no straight forward answer on what license a DJ needs to obtain to play legitimately purchased music at a nightclub/venue. I know ignorance is not an excuse for law breaking, but if this issue is so serious which can sometimes result in criminal prosecution, then how the hell are 90% of all DJs unaware of this licensing requirement?

I'd be very surprised if a Magistrate convicted any DJ of this which would require them to pin this offence to the Crimes Act of the particular state in which the offender resides in.

IMO, there should be just once license required for venues to play music (which covers performers/DJ at the venue). The splitting of the royalties should be left up to the record labels to perform rather than having separate licenses.
I'm lost for words on why ARIA has imposed this 'format shift' licence if the music is going to be used for DJ purposes. The APRA/AMCOS license should cover this as it's under the license of playing music publicly.
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yeah pomrockers i use my tivo everyday
record whats needed, watch whats needed and have the tv playing on my computer 24/7
its easy when you get the services given to you

but you seem to know me what I am doing all the time
pitty you dont look at the mirror more often then

i'll just go and do my work and let you argue on a point, that has nothing to do with this thread at all

have a creative day thinking of more!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post

yeah pomrockers i use my tivo everyday
record whats needed, watch whats needed and have the tv playing on my computer 24/7
its easy when you get the services given to you

but you seem to know me what I am doing all the time
pitty you dont look at the mirror more often then

i'll just go and do my work and let you argue on a point, that has nothing to do with this thread at all

have a creative day thinking of more!

oh really? You're such a hypocrite

Quote:

DJ Dennis - 12/02/2010
I have my Settop box that uses ntfs and records avi files
it also reads movies I download (who cares) my use only

the dvd player reads divx so I can read dvds and divx movies

Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post


i'll just go and do my work and let you argue on a point, that has nothing to do with this thread at all

have a creative day thinking of more!

I learnt from the best
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Gigs & stuff - Dave Stuart - DJ Page


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Quote:

Originally Posted by archietech View Post

a good friend of mine is doing life for playing a kei$ha track off someone's iphone at a house party here. as djdennis says - you will only make the mistake once.

Calling bullshit on this one, no way on earth do you do the equivalent of a murder conviction for playing a track at a house party.


Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post


As far as keeping the originals on site, that is not necessary.
We do not have a task force that goes around actively pursing
mobile DJ units (unless we get word of blatant piracy).
.

Wtf? So you just need the receipts? or you can just have the music on your hard drive and no one cares (even if its probably pirated) because they only care if you're distributing?
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you belive anything you want
you can do what you want, others know whats right

I am the president of new zealand and you cant touch me lol

i stand around on my head laughing at you replying at a hook, line and sinker all day long...
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

hahahahahahah A pictures tells a thousand words. I was going to write something, but that pic says it all
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Quote:

Originally Posted by brown820 View Post

Calling bullshit on this one, no way on earth do you do the equivalent of a murder conviction for playing a track at a house party.


Wowwwwwwwwwwwwww, you're joking right? It's pretty obvious he was being sarcastic.
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/sacastic-on

you bet ya!!

/sarcastic-off
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This was MIPI's response to a question about what licence the average DJ will need:

On the basis that the nightclub that you perform in has the relevant APRA and PPCA public performance licences, then as a DJ who copies legitimate music eg onto hard-drives or from MP3 to CDs you will need the following:

1. Blanket reproduction licence for the sound recordings from ARIA (who can be contacted on 02 8569 1144) AND

2. Blanket reproduction licence for the musical works from AMCOS (who can be contacted on 1300 852 38.

Furthermore, from APRA:

For the performance of music APRA does not licence DJ's or karaoke operators per se, APRA licences the venue in which you will perform. If you have any questions regarding an APRA Performance licence please direct them to licence@apra.com.au However you are unlikely to require one of these if you are performing in an established venue (bar, restaurant, nightclub) that should already be covered with a licence. You will also not require a performance licence if you are DJing in domestic settings (parties at people's homes).

This said, you should contact the PPCA in case you require a DJ licence from them. They can be reached on 02 8569 1111 or www.ppca.com.au

Many DJs prefer to transfer their CD/vinyl collection on to a laptop for ease of portability and convenience (eg: burning CD/Vinyl tracks to a Laptop/MP3). If you are personally making copies of tracks for DJ or Karaoke purposes you will require an AMCOS Casual Blanket Reproduction licence. This includes transferring MP3s from one computer to another. I have attached the application form and guide here:



To reproduce commercially released music for public performance purposes you are required by Australian Copyright Law to cover both the publishing rights and sound recording rights in a song. AMCOS represents music publishers and ARIA represent the record label's sound recordings. For more information regarding ARIA licences for the reproduction/use of the records label's sound recordings you will need to contact them directly on 02 8569 1144 or licensing.mail@aria.com.au

You will not require an AMCOS licence if you are performing using the original format only (CDs/vinyl/pre-loaded hard drive purchased from supplier/direct downloads to device performing with) legally bought by yourself. However, it is always best to keep receipts as proof of original purchase (especially regarding pre-loaded hard-drives) in the event you are questioned regarding having a licence to copy/perform copyright music. AMCOS also advise that you contact your Digital Service Provider if you wish to copy tracks you have downloaded from them (eg. iTunes, Bigpond). DSP's terms and conditions may not allow copying downloads for any reason other than domestic. If you have any questions about these matters you can contact MIPI (Music Industry Piracy Investigations) via their web site www.mipi.com.au

Once you have completed and returned the form (which also acts as your agreement) you will be invoiced for payment. The licence is a casual licence so please state the duration of time you would like to be covered on the form. This is usually 6 months or 1 year. This is not automatically renewed. If you wish to extend this licence period in order to reproduce more tracks you have to re-apply.

For independent advice on music copyright you can contact the Australian Copyright Council at www.copyright.org.au and/or the Arts Law Centre at www.artslaw.com.au
--

So, based on that, to be a law abiding citizen, you'll need at least a licence from ARIA, and if you plan on doing any backing up/copying for your music which you use for DJing, you'll also need an AMCOS/APRA licence.

So... That's the advise, I guess it's your prerogative if you choose to follow this by the book and get the licences, or take the risk of getting caught - which lets be honest, probably unlikely, but... As they say, sometimes it's better to be safe than sorry.

Also, in terms of price for these licenses:

ARIA - $800 flat rate
AMCOS/APRA - $66 which includes up to 500 tracks. You obviously have to pay more if you want to cover more tracks.
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