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How do I avoid being audited?

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brown820 +

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fackedd View Post

Wowwwwwwwwwwwwww, you're joking right? It's pretty obvious he was being sarcastic.

haha no shit sorry, got confused between posters...thought that was djdennis and I still don't get if he's being serious or just being a dick.
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Nice work! Thanks for clearing that up
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ARIA can suck my left one.


The music industry has changed very rapidly in the past few years and they're chasing their tail to try and somehow regain the profits they were accustomed to for so long ...


If any APRA reps read my post here they can PM me to discuss my licenses
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Quote:

Originally Posted by fender09 View Post

You will not require an AMCOS licence if you are performing using the original format only (CDs/vinyl/pre-loaded hard drive purchased from supplier/direct downloads to device performing with) legally bought by yourself. However, it is always best to keep receipts as proof of original purchase (especially regarding pre-loaded hard-drives) in the event you are questioned regarding having a licence to copy/perform copyright music. AMCOS also advise that you contact your Digital Service Provider if you wish to copy tracks you have downloaded from them (eg. iTunes, Bigpond). DSP's terms and conditions may not allow copying downloads for any reason other than domestic.

Now I'm hoping they don't ask to see them on the spot, I mean who's going to carry around years of receipts with them?

On the digital front, I do have my receipts saved for this financial year (the rest are in my email client, waiting to be sorted) - but not on my performance computer, I keep them on the desktop back in the studio...

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Originally Posted by puretrance89 View Post

My muzza's are more tanked up than your muzzas!

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now whos running scared! lol




not me.......
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meither
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So was it illegal if you copy music that you have bought from Cd's onto your computer if you retain the Cd and the proof of purchase?

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me neither.....


got every receipt for the last 5 years

Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post

now whos running scared! lol

not me.......

you're still a
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Yeah.... could spend that money on a new set of speakers. Don't bother unless you're playing the next Creamfields. Honestly...
Funkedub +

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once upon a time it was live bands protesting against recorded music. In the 30s and 40s radio stations played live musicians. They toook great offense and tried to stamp out recorded music being played on air ... and in venues.

Then it changed to the record companies complaining about not getting their cut from piracy ...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalgrub View Post

Yeah.... could spend that money on a new set of speakers. Don't bother unless you're playing the next Creamfields. Honestly...

Interesting you should mention that, given that the licence fee is $800 p.a it is actually cheaper to buy Serato or Tracktor or upgrade to a CDJ2000 (which can use USB) and drop the use of CDs all together... This way, you can download digital music onto your performing Laptop and therefore completely avoid the need to 'format shift' your music as it's already in digital format and you aren't creating any extra copies for DJing purposes.

Edit: - Confirmed from MIPI - If you download digital tracks legitimately, and use the digital tracks on your laptop for Digital DJing, you do not need a 'format shift' license.

Last edited by fender09: 03-Feb-11 at 09:45am

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fender09 View Post

Edit: - Confirmed from MIPI - If you download digital tracks legitimately, and use the digital tracks on your laptop for Digital DJing, you do not need a 'format shift' license.

Before I go on I'll tell everyone that I actually work for an industry music supplier and there is still a massive amount of incorrect and half-truth information about what DJs can and can't do and what licenses they need to pay. This quote above is a good example.

Everybody assumes that if you use suppliers like iTunes, Bigpond or Beatport that you're doing the right thing and they are legitimate suppliers - they are NOT. If you read their terms and conditions - they are for personal, non-commercial users, that means a business can't use them - I'm sorry but if you get paid to DJ in any way - it's a business.

Copy this link from ARIA into your browser, an information sheet about their "Format Shifting License":
aria DOT com DOT au/documents/003A.DJFormatShiftingLicence-InformationSheet01.07.08.pdf
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continued
The issue here is that if you're a business then you should be using legitimate suppliers - everyone says that but no-one says what one is - there are actually 3 major suppliers in Australia for business music users who supply DJs, Jukebox operators, venues and nightclubs as well as material for retail shops (music video and music in fashion stores etc), they are:

Visual Sounds (yes that's me)
SBA music
Nightlife (typically only supply material with complete computer media systems)
there are a few smaller operations but these tend to be regionally based and don't generally supply DJs

These are what people at ARIA, APRA, AMCOS and PPCA mean when they refer to "legitimate" music suppliers. As you can see from the ARIA information sheet, if you buy music from iTunes, Bigpond or Beatport then you're going to be liable for their $800 a year format shifting license - that's going to make you purchases from these outlets much more expensive when you add the license fee on top of the cost.

The way around this is to get the music you want in the format you intend to use it - mp3s for computer based systems - CD, VCDs and DVDs for disc based systems
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what about promo releases?
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My laptop is full of CDs i purchased and ripped ... i have not paid for a format shift license. My contact details are readily available here ... you'll see any gigs i have coming up. ARIA, APRA, AMCOS and PPCA are welcome to visit me at my next gig and fine me.
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Many people assume that the rules that apply to personal music users apply to business users - WRONG. As a personal user, you can do lots of stuff with music you've bought - as a business user (yes a DJ), you can do almost nothing.

A DJ can't take music from CDs they bought and make mp3s for their computer - format shifting license applies
A DJ can't buy one copy of a song and use it on 5 DJ systems - they need to buy 5 copies of the song
A DJ can't download music from torrents or p2p programs - this is a no brainer but I still meet DJs with 5,000 &10,000 song collections and they happily tell me they've never paid for any music - there's stupid, then really stupid - then there's these guys.

Suddenly - when you're asked to pay for the $800 a year format shifting license, for the rest of your DJing career (let's see 10 years x $800 = $8,000), using sites like iTunes, and Bigpond is not such good value, they don't care, they'll happily take your money, it's not their problem if you get hit with the format shifting fees to "legitimise" your library for commercial use.

How much music would $8,000 buy you over the next 10 years?

And all you need to do is get music from a "legitimate" supplier to avoid it.

I've told you who I am, I've told you who the other major industry suppliers are - the choice is yours to be a real DJ or not
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Quote:

Originally Posted by VisualSounds View Post


A DJ can't take music from CDs they bought and make mp3s for their computer - format shifting license applies
A DJ can't buy one copy of a song and use it on 5 DJ systems - they need to buy 5 copies of the song
A DJ can't download music from torrents or p2p programs - this is a no brainer but I still meet DJs with 5,000 &10,000 song collections and they happily tell me they've never paid for any music - there's stupid, then really stupid - then there's these guys.

So much vague info...

Purchase music, goes straight to laptop, play from laptop....no format shift
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Are you the work experience kid at Visual Sound??

Have they asked you to "infiltrate social media" ... and spam the fuk out of it?


Granted though, you are going about it with a cohesive and subdued approach ... but it's still essentially spam
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so do you need to buy a license for each cdj, or for each type of cdj?

is mkI and mkII considered 2 different types?
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HI Funkedub & pomrocks,

I was attempting to give some useful information to clear up some issues

Pomrocks is absolutely correct buy mp3s and put them on your laptop is the correct way to do it - but missed the important qualifier - "from legitimate suppliers"

I am not the work experience kid.

The only license any DJ really needs is a single PPCA license (information is availble from their website or just ring them, it's a bit over $200 a year for a mobile guy) assuming they get music from legitimate suppliers

It only gets messy when DJs start ripping CD, DVDs or whatever to their computers

Also if you do exclusively venue work then you you probably don't even need a PPCA license as the venues are already paying for license fees and many are supplying in-house media systems for their DJs to use anyway (depends on the type of venue and target market clientele of course).

It was not my intention to spam the forum, just provide accurate information without hiding where I'm from
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Quote:

Originally Posted by VisualSounds View Post

but missed the important qualifier - "from legitimate suppliers"

Fair point, but this doesnt take in account, unreleased music, promo releases or our own productions......

The licenses in place really only cater to mobile & commercial DJs...
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Quite right about promos, unreleased version and stuff DJs make up themselves, these are outside the lines where it can be a bit gray - having spoken to the licensing guys several times (and heard from some DJs they've hassled) it seems that if you're trying to be legit and doing the right things they have overlooked some stuff that DJs have - but don't always count on it

Every DJ seems to have a few jewels in their collection that are very rare, hard to come buy versions or mixes that you can't usually find through legitimate means, it's part of what makes a good DJ, looking for the best or rarest material to keep the dance floors and crowds going and surprise them sometimes, I think (my opinion alone) that if they can see your trying to be legit, if you have actually bought virtually all your music and can prove it, then your 99% what they want, it's might not be worth it for them to crucify the little guy (this is my opinion but don't rely on it)

Hey, if Sony, Universal, Warner or whoever think enough of you to send you promo copies, it's going to be hard to have a licensing body attack you for having illegitimate music when the people they represent sent it to you, lol

As to your own mixes, don't hand them out freely (collect promo mixes back from club managers if possible), don't sell them and don't let others use them - there have been some guys crucified for exactly that - do we remember DJ MOTO or that Peewee Ferris was nailed for a simple sampling mistake in a mix he released
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Good points VS

Quote:

Originally Posted by VisualSounds View Post


Hey, if Sony, Universal, Warner or whoever think enough of you to send you promo copies, it's going to be hard to have a licensing body attack you for having illegitimate music when the people they represent sent it to you, lol

That's the thing, the licensing bodies do nothing for any of the smaller record labels that most of the DJ's on here buy music from. A good % of them never see any money

Then there's the whole "creative commons" part of the industry...
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You're still right pomrocks

I heard about a study a while back that said that there was something like 40% (can't remember exactly so don't quote me) less variety in music styles and arrtists being "promoted" with real money behind them. What is happening is that the labels are looking for the next GaGa, Katy Perry, Bob Sinclar or 50 cent and then throwing their entire promotional might behind them, at the expense of promoting smaller artists playing "niche" styles who then get less overall promotion - that's what the study found but I haven't been able to find a copy (not for want of looking either)

Smaller labels supporting niche markets have a hard time of it and rely on DJs to get the music out there - that's why it's so important to buy the legit copies of those songs and have the right licenses (without getting gouged) to support the music you, and those you play to, like

I know they call it the Top40 because it's what Mr or Mrs Average likes most of the time but then people can also like D&B or trance or heck, even country music as well (if they're really deranged, lol)
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^^ Just one more thing, I looked through the SBA site and the albums/releases seemed fine for a mobile/party dj. However I couldn't find many of the artists I like to play on the SBA site. How do I get these tracks through legitamate sources to cover myself? OR do releases fall under the radar if not represented by Aria/Apra?
I also thought that the laws on format shifting changed or maybe that was just for personal use.
One more thing if I download an MP3, transfer it to memeory stick to play is that still illegal as I have made a copy? (Yeah I've read through the docs before but seems confusing.)
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HI m_xt - all suppliers do various updates for clients - the best option is to call and ask about what you want - all music is protected unless it's public domain

I'd rather not use the forum as an advertisement for any supplier - this thread is about covering your ass with regards to legit music and licenses

There were changes a few years ago which made it legal for a personal user to do most of the things they were already doing, copy songs to laptops, mp3 players, make CDs for the car etc and as I read it in the licenses, a DJ (business user) could be allowed to have a single backup of digital material in case a system dies and takes the music with it - however, some info seems conflicting depending on which licensing material you look at
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Thanks mate, good response. It seems the rules don't always take into consideration reality. It seems if I downloaded a song, copied it to a back up HD and to 2 CD/USB I would be doing the wrong thing as I would have 4 copies. But if I bought a DVS I wouldnt run into this prob...strange.

It seems simpler to fly under the radar than understand everything in these laws that is relevent.
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Unless you're Carl Cox, I wouldn't bother for playing out. I doubt APRA etc don't even bother with guys like him. It's really only top 40 bars that are actually going to be checked. Playing at your local Drum n Bass or Electro club will be fine....
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So Digital you will bet everything on that he will never get audited what so ever !

lol you havent read what the mipi are doing have you!!

oh well hope you enjoy a life without djing down the track if and when your Audited!

oh I will quote from above so you can re-READ what is and has been said what the mipi are doing


from post 83
http://www.inthemix.com.au/forum/sho...1&postcount=83

Quote:

General Manager of MIPI says, "Our surveillance programs run 7x days a week and investigators work a 24x hour roster period. This means we get to cover a lot of ground. We average an arrest every two weeks. By way of example, we currently have over 134 DJs, Jukebox operators and venues (and their operators) in the process of being prosecuted civilly. A further 50 or more Dj's are awaiting criminal prosecution from all over Australia. Over 250 notices have been served in the past year for MP3 piracy alone."

"Apart from issuing fines, prosecutors can confiscate all the equipment involved (eg: CD Players, Amps, Speakers, Whole Computers etc) for destruction. Even if you are lucky enough to convince a court that you should get some equipment back, you can be sure that it will have been seized for so long that it is out of fashion or superseded!"

"At any given time, MIPI is able to identify current or emerging trends in infringing behaviour. This is one of the things that make us so successful. At present there is a real problem with operators and venues using hard drives to play illegally copied music and, no matter which way you view it, this is illegal. Over the years, our investigators have heard every conceivable excuse for this form of piracy."

"Yes, using hard drives to play copied music without the authorisation of the copyright owner is piracy, no matter what your explanation. The sheer size of the problem here has resulted in MIPI adopting newer approaches to piracy."

"We recently undertook undercover sting operations targeting Dj's, Clubs, Venues and jukebox operators in Melbourne and Perth, we will be taking the operation on the road again real soon. So put simply, you will never know if your customer is just that, or the anti-piracy investigation unit coming for you."

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Fuk!!

Quick someone phone Coxy and let him know ASAP!!!
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I was waiting to see how long it takes for Dennis to make a reply
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Yay For Dj Dennis!!!!! You Are My Hero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Actually this is more appropriate

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oh what a shame - not my concern..................
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Literally every DJ shares tracks with each other. Are they going to arrest the Austrlian DJ community? Who will spin music then?

OH GOD WHAT WILL WE DO

What about music I have given to other people that I made, can I reneg and say I want it back now? I should do that I think, it sounds fun.
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I'm just going to ride my luck for now

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Lucky Dennis is here to instill the fear of the rightious MIPI (whatever the fuck that is) into people.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by archietech View Post

a good friend of mine is doing life for playing a kei$ha track off someone's iphone at a house party here. as djdennis says - you will only make the mistake once.

Unless you really love Kei$ha then you'll be playing that bitch for the rest of your life!!!!!!!!!!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by SlicyDicer View Post

Literally every DJ shares tracks with each other. Are they going to arrest the Austrlian DJ community? Who will spin music then?

OH GOD WHAT WILL WE DO
.

Dj Dennis will still be around, everyone will be wiped out but him, just like in the movie Forrest Gump when he tries his hand at shrimping and a storm wipes out all local producers but forrest who went out in the storm, yada yada yada


the whole thing smells ......(and not of teen spirit!!!)
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i bet dj dennis was, who they based dennis the menace off of cause he is just a little pest
I am reporting people who call me marshy or another name you have been warn
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The thing with DJing is that you go to a record store and buy a piece of vinyl or CD or download a track from itunes- thats how the music spreads and what makes up the culture. Itunes won't always have the best stuff, let alone 'visual sounds' or whatever.

Sure, buying dodgy copied CDs from a guy on the streets of Bangkok is pretty bad, but having 5 copies of the same song to play on different systems?
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hey the more you kick up a stink is more of what the mipi and other bodies love
because they know your running scared if caught

if your so worried - show your ppca licence number online for all to see (or your website to say your legal)

oh thats right your not

well not my concern!
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http://www.djdennis.com.au
pomrocks +

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DjDennis View Post


if your so worried - show your ppca licence number online for all to see (or your website to say your legal)

!

Wrong, get your info right Dennis.

If you are a club DJ then a PPCA licence is not required as is covered by the venue

Quote:

PPCA
Under section 27(4) of the Copyright Act, the obligation to hold the appropriate licences (including PPCA licences) lies with the occupier of the premises. This is usually the owner of the premises, and not necessarily the third party who is hiring the premises for a one-off event or series of events. If the nightclub is properly licensed, then any DJ working solely in that club or any other properly licensed club does not need to take out a separate licence in their own right. If, however, the DJ is either a mobile DJ operator, then a separate DJ licence is required.

Have a nice day
Playing at;


Gigs & stuff - Dave Stuart - DJ Page


SHRUG
DjDennis +

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then as I said not my concern - I dont have to run from anyone
because I dont have to show a licence , because how do you think I get the info
if they havent already seen my collection and what I use at shows...
DjDennis

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(In this crazy business for over 38+ years)

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pomrocks +

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Make any sense, your reply does not


And im not having a go at you, i'm just posting up the correct info as most DJ on here play in clubs not mobile

However i think you missed my point, that info may relate to your work as a mobile / wedding DJ. But the individual PPCA license is not required for a DJ playing in a licensed night club
Playing at;


Gigs & stuff - Dave Stuart - DJ Page


SHRUG

Last edited by pomrocks: 08-Jul-11 at 03:41pm

DjDennis +

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all I will say is

DjDennis

CEO - Director/Manager/Entertainment Director
(In this crazy business for over 38+ years)

new updated urls
http://www.trebleclefdj.com.au Main Site!
http://verifydj.trebleclefdj.com.au
http://www.djdennis.com.au
johnbiggs +

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we win dennass we win
I am reporting people who call me marshy or another name you have been warn
DjDennis +

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nope read what is happening that sites are being closed

oh thats right you have no idea - oh well you better go look then!!
same with being Audited it wont happen now but it will happen

not my concern!
DjDennis

CEO - Director/Manager/Entertainment Director
(In this crazy business for over 38+ years)

new updated urls
http://www.trebleclefdj.com.au Main Site!
http://verifydj.trebleclefdj.com.au
http://www.djdennis.com.au
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They arrest on average one DJ every two weeks..? Fortunately there are around forty million dj's living in my suburb alone these days...
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