So basically the Cup is used as qualifiers. I just dont see it personally.

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Originally Posted by big eddie

Beating a championship side on penalties is a better qualification than league position for the elite competition of Europe why?

It's not the knockout cup knockout cup. If you want that, they can have It's a knockout uefa edition.

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Originally Posted by Bism

Arsenal were better over the course of an entire season, which is harder than a cup run against weakened opposition (See: Liverpool's league position).

Liverpool's two cup runs involved beating the following to get to the final:

Manchester City x2
Manchester United
Chelsea
Spurs
Everton
Stoke x2

I don't remember any of those teams fielding weakened squads -- it's hardly the walk in the park that people make it out to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by big eddie

Beating a championship side on penalties is a better qualification than league position for the elite competition of Europe why?

It's not the knockout cup knockout cup. If you want that, they can have It's a knockout uefa edition.

Get Denise Drysdale on board and son, you've got yourself a hit telly show right there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

IThat brings far more relevance to the cups rather than a tournament that people play their youth squads in and makes the Champions League a real “Champions League” because almost everyone in it won something last season.
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

hen they would be much more competitive fixtures rather than tournaments where many managers send the kids on to the pitch (especially in the early rounds) because they just don’t care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

I don't remember any of those teams fielding weakened squads -- it's hardly the walk in the park that people make it out to be.

"early rounds"

You really think Liverpool are more deserved of a CL spot than Spurs/Arse/Newcastle/ Chelsea (if they hadn't won)?

Glory's gone to your head mate.

With your logic Birmingham would have been in the CL last year whilst playing in the championship. Complete waste of a spot. At least Arse/Spurs get into the final round and put up a good fight.

I think its great that the Carling cup can give the minows a chance at silverwear but giving the winner a CL spot makes it harder for minows like pool as the top 4 will play full teams

The League Cup is about as prestigious and relevant as the toilet seat league. Sif CL spot for that shit.

If it meant anything, the Americans wouldn't have completely ignored it when they decided to sack the King.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bism

Arsenal were better over the course of an entire season, which is harder than a cup run against weakened opposition (See: Liverpool's league position).

we beat the premier league champions & the champions of europe on the way to win the mighty carling cup

but anyway. there is no way fa cup/carling cup winners should get into the champions league. the only cup winner that should be rewarded with a place in the champions league is the winner of the europa league. it would greatly improve the competition and also the teams that make it into the latter stages are far better than some of the shite that manage to sneak into the group stages of the champions league.

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickbateman

we beat the premier league champions & the champions of europe on the way to win the mighty carling cup

Crazy when you only won 6 matches at home all season

Arsenal beat the champions of Europe 5-2

good for you...

Ysf8

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

I actually agree with the concept people talk about in the comments that all local cup winners should go in to the Champions League. The four slots, in my mind, should be allocated to the Premier League Winners, Premier League Runner-up, FA Cup Winner and League Cup Winner. If the cup winner qualifies via league position, the place goes to the other finalist. If they qualify elsewhere, then it goes to the league. That brings far more relevance to the cups rather than a tournament that people play their youth squads in and makes the Champions League a real “Champions League” because almost everyone in it won something last season.

Now I know I’m going to start a flame war with this but I don’t see any reasons why teams like Arsenal, who have won nothing for the past 7 or 8 years, keep getting in to the CL because they limp over the line every year. They should need to win something or come top 2. Being constantly mediocre shouldn’t get you a seat on Europe’s biggest table: winning something should. Liverpool are far more deserving than Arsenal because they lifted something this year.

Typical view of someone who would like to see the entire Champions League made up of English, Spanish and Italian teams. Oh, maybe we could give Germany one spot too so they don't bail on the Euro and let everyone die in their own filth.

Are you sure you weren't raised in the land of the self centred and selfish dickheads known as the US?

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

It’s not an effort for a troll at all, it's my honest view. If the League Cup and the FA Cup both awarded Champions League places then they would be much more competitive fixtures rather than tournaments where many managers send the kids on to the pitch (especially in the early rounds) because they just don’t care.

City won the league. United came a very close second. Chelsea won the FA Cup. Liverpool won the League Cup and were finalists in the FA Cup. What reason do Arsenal, or even Tottenham/Newcastle who were in contention, have to be in the Champions League next year?

the cup winners cup? chelsea won that back in the day

I'd like to see the winners of the europa league get a CL qualification.

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Originally Posted by metaphorikal

I'd like to see the winners of the europa league get a CL qualification.

Nah not really. Athletico Madrid won it two years ago because they couldn't get past in the group stage.

Europa league is good to take the spill overs who couldn't cut it in the CL, but not the other way around

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Originally Posted by Balls Deep

You really think Liverpool are more deserved of a CL spot than Spurs/Arse/Newcastle/ Chelsea (if they hadn't won)?

Glory's gone to your head mate.

It has nothing to do with glory. If City finished 3rd or 4th and won nothing it would have been a failure of a season – simple as that. Mancini would have been sacked and things would have begun anew next season. Under my logic Chelsea would have made the CL by winning the FA Cup and no, I really don’t think that Arsenal, Spurs or Newcastle did more than Liverpool because they didn’t win a thing, and none of them have won anything or years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrugfuctDonkey

The League Cup is about as prestigious and relevant as the toilet seat league. Sif CL spot for that shit.

If it meant anything, the Americans wouldn't have completely ignored it when they decided to sack the King.

That’s my point. *IF* the cup was worth more than people would treat it with far more respect than it is now. If it was a way to get in to the CL then every team would be going balls out to win it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fledz

Typical view of someone who would like to see the entire Champions League made up of English, Spanish and Italian teams. Oh, maybe we could give Germany one spot too so they don't bail on the Euro and let everyone die in their own filth.

Are you sure you weren't raised in the land of the self centred and selfish dickheads known as the US?

where did I say that I only wanted teams from the top three leagues in there?

That comment is ironic nonetheless because since they killed the Cup Winners Cup only one team NOT from the top 4 leagues has won it: Porto in 03. Compare that with the 90s when Ajax, Marseille and Red Star Belgrade all won the European Cup. If anything the favour has tipped so far in the way of the top 4 leagues (read: TV biggest revenue) that it’s now almost impossible for teams not from the top leagues to win it and even if they do get close their teams are plundered by clubs with deeper pockets. Take Olympic Lyon for example, they were constantly close to winning the CL in the mid 2000’s but every time they got close someone would swoop in and sign their best players (Abidal/Edmilson/Diarra/Malouda/Essien/etc).

Personally I’d love to see a FC Basel/Rangers/Partizan Belgrade/Steaua Bucharest shake the big boys up but the way qualification is stacked in favor of the top leagues it’s almost impossible for them to get in. Even if they win their leagues they are largely placed in the qualifying rounds and will have to face off against the likes of Chelsea to get in.

But what does that have to do with anything anyway? We’re not talking about who gets in, we’re talking about HOW they get in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaphorikal

I'd like to see the winners of the europa league get a CL qualification.

I agree

look at big man on campus give it the large one about changing up the champions league after his team has played all of one fucking round of it in the history of forever

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Originally Posted by TRZA

look at big man on campus give it the large one about changing up the champions league after his team has played all of one fucking round of it in the history of forever

When I have some time I'll look up our Champions League threads from 2004 or so (i.e. when we were bad). I'm sure you'll find me saying the same thing back then.

This is not just something new because we're in it; I've supported this concept for a long time and am happy to argue for it even if it seems pointless -- like now. I sympathise with the fact that you might not understand the concept of supporting something when it's not doing well, and I get the Arsenal fans don't like me shitting on what seems to be their only glimmer of hope each season, but cut me some slack here and stop making up that my thoughts have anything to do with how we did this season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

I sympathise with the fact that you might not understand the concept of supporting something when it's not doing well.

He supports Arsenal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by midian

When I have some time I'll look up our Champions League threads from 2004 or so (i.e. when we were bad). I'm sure you'll find me saying the same thing back then.

This is not just something new because we're in it; I've supported this concept for a long time and am happy to argue for it even if it seems pointless -- like now. I sympathise with the fact that you might not understand the concept of supporting something when it's not doing well, and I get the Arsenal fans don't like me shitting on what seems to be their only glimmer of hope each season, but cut me some slack here and stop making up that my thoughts have anything to do with how we did this season.

It is a well known fact that Taza is this forum's best troll. Besides, now that Chelsea have won it it means that he knows everything about how the champions league should work.

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Originally Posted by Hdb2

He supports Arsenal?

TRZA's greatest troll yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRZA

look at big man on campus give it the large one about changing up the champions league after his team has played all of one fucking round of it in the history of forever

they'll still win it before arsenal

Campeones!!!

Still a prick.

It's printed on actual paper. It must be true

Quote:

“I’ve been waiting eight or nine years for this,” said Terry. “For it to finally be here wipes away all those bad memories. I can live with missing the final, I really can, because the club have won.

"It’s not about me and I’m really not that type of person. Things are just meant to be and I wasn’t meant to play. We’ve gone on to win it and that’s all that matters because I care about this football club so much.”

Terry, as well as Chelsea's other suspended players, stripped to their playing kit after Didier Drogba had scored the winning penalty to join their team-mates. With Frank Lampard, who was Chelsea’s stand-in captain on Saturday, Terry also lifted the European Cup.

Terry was banned after being sent off against Barcelona for a knee into the back of Alexis Sanchez. His full involvement in Saturday’s on-field celebrations prompted criticism on Twitter.

“The last thing you want to do is see players in suits and stuff like that,” said Terry. “We’ve all played a major part. We stuck our kit on and hoped for the best and, thankfully, we went on to do it.

... Not that kind of person.

I see no issues with it frankly. It's not like he didn't play at all in the tournament for fucks sake.