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Qantas grounds entire fleet

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Originally Posted by buffed View Post

the only angry people are those that were stranded, but i imagine that of those, some will be pissed off, some will take it in their stride and some will understand the motives.

How was it avoidable? The unions wanted gurantees of job security. Who is going to give that in this day and age? Qantas said we can't give you that and the Unions weren't prepared to shift. Do you actually know what the dispute was about or are you just commetning from the cheap seats?

Well after buying a quarter of chronic, a slab of Coopers, multiple varietals of Che t-shirts, my Green-Left Weekly, my Aboriginal art-works, attending my Workers Party meetings, read out my beatnik-poetry at the local arts hub, and bought bandages for the holes in my bleeding heart, all I'm left with is only enough for the Cheap Seats.

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Ahem, as I understand the dispute the Pilots' main concern is job security plus salary increase, the ground-crews' is job security and wage increases. Qantas is saying they can't countenance either. Yet they shroud themselves in Still Calling Australia home.

What I'm saying is it was avoidable. Qantas Pilots are not only the best paid in the industry, but also the entirety of all professions. They should be willing drop their salary demands in exchange for Qantas continuing to employ Australian pilots. Maybe even agree to salary decreases if it gets Qantas back to being competitive in the industry.

But Qantas can't continue to jingoistically market themselves as Australia if they aren't prepared to guarantee the Australian contingent of their workforce.

Lots of people were willing to forego a percentage of their pay and other things in order to keep their and their colleagues' jobs during the GFC. I think Qantas employees need to understand that if Qantas starts losing large quantities of bank, even if the company gave them all their demands, there would be a real chance that they'd have no job in 5-10 years.

Give me 5 fucking minutes with both sides and I'd fucken sort shit out yo'.
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Oh and buffed please explain why you think the Government should've got involved and/or why they are to blame for this situation. Qantas is a private company why is it the Government's responsibility to get involved in industrial disputes while negotiation were still going on.
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I won't be checking luggage in for a while. DNW disgruntled workers sending my bags to Mauritius.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by gotamangina View Post

I won't be checking luggage in for a while. DNW disgruntled workers sending my bags to Mauritius.

There is no chance of that happening. Baggies know that if that shit started to happen they would lose all credibility and whatever support they have with the public.
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Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

There is no chance of that happening. Baggies know that if that shit started to happen they would lose all credibility and whatever support they have with the public.

I might be confusing a whole bunch of news stories and dumb rumours I've read over the past few years, but aren't quite a few baggage handlers member of bikie gangs?
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That's improbable as being a known member of a bikie gang would typically make you ineligible for ASIC clearance.

Could some handlers be on the payroll for bikie gangs? Sure.

Actually known members of a gang? No chance.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Is it? all I want when I go long haul is:

2. No delays - Providing planes on time is a service.
3. Being given enough food and drink to keep me alive. Oh you mean food SERVICE
4. Being left alone to watch films/sleep - oh you mean customer service?

my responses in bold
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They only need to drop a few more bags than usual or run over a few or steal from a few to start making insurance claims a pain in the arse for QANTAS. This much anger & resentment doesn't just go away overnight because of a court decision.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle View Post

That's improbable as being a known member of a bikie gang would typically make you ineligible for ASIC clearance.

Could some handlers be on the payroll for bikie gangs? Sure.

Actually known members of a gang? No chance.

Yeah, this is what I was probably thinking of

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...-u-s-military/
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Good article, seems fairly balanced, by Ben Sandilands @ Crikey:

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...of-the-absurd/
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle View Post

Buffed you should probably actually read what the Union was demanding before making comments.

http://www.twu.com.au/Home/Campaigns...TWU-v5-3-8-11/

Read it and make up you own mind.

Some highlights for you:

No. 25, which says an employee should be entitled to overtime if they work more than 7 consecutive days in a 10 day period. Wow this union sounds like a bunch of selfish fuckers demanding compensation for workers forced to work more than 5 days a week.

No. 14:3, don't turn the workforce into casuals and part-timers just to shirk on basic conditions to make more profit. OMG How can Qantas live with having to treat full-time employees like full-time employees? Fucking unions and their greedy demands.

Other provisions ask for a 5% pay rise, or the rate of the CPI increase if it is higher. With inflation running at around 3.5% - 4% right now they are effectively asking for a 1% pay rise. Fucking Unions trying to bankrupt the company!

And what's this crazy talk about employees having to undergo drug testing and have their ASIC card on hand to work in 13? Fucking unions trying to bankrupt QANTAS by acting in the interests of national security and public safety!

I could go on but essentially the majority of the action is to prevent QANTAS executives from moving the company to Asia and fucking off their Australian division entirely.

Not that you'll read this post or it because both are longer than 2 sentences and we all know you can read that long without having to post about how much better off we all were under Workchoices.

Qantas have 2 main costs - fuel and people. They can't make fuel cheaper, so the main other way to reduce costs is....ta-dah!

Also, perhaps rather than simply posting what the Unions wanted, it would be more useful to post up which demands Qantas refused because they agreed to a heap of them but the Unions decide they would only accept a 100% win (yeah awesome negotiating guys!) and thus Joyce did what he did.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Portal View Post

my responses in bold

Thanks for that. Now, what's your point?

I was saying I don't expect anything amazing and I am rarely disappointed.

What are you trying to say?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Thanks for that. Now, what's your point?

I was saying I don't expect anything amazing and I am rarely disappointed.

What are you trying to say?

You said:

"I really don't care about service, as long as I get what I want, when I want it."

Do you not see the your contradiction? Anyway, doesn't really matter, I'm just being picky cause I'm stuck at work when I should be at home....
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Dubz, your claim that the unions demanded 100% of their claims is rubbish. In all 3 cases the unions have said the pay raises are negotiable.

Claims that all the industrial action is financially crippling the company are a bit whack as well. The pilots union only industrial action to date is to wear non-uniform ties and make in-flight announcements explaining their Qantas Flight - Qantas Pilot demand.

Yet Qantas management repeatedly bring up their current pay levels and make out that they are crippling the company with this action.

The only union actually engaging in action likely to hinder the operation of the airline are the baggage handlers and they are on average earning $38,000 a year which is below the average wage in South Australia let alone anywhere else in the Federation. Considering they need an ASIC clearance to get the job, that is ludicrous.

You certainly don't see Qantas management talking about their pay levels despite the fact they repeatedly mention the 5% payrise which the Baggage Handlers union is the only union making a 5% (negotiable) demand.

The engineers union is asking for a (negotiable) 3% rise and the pilots a (negotiable) 2.5%. Both below the current rate of inflation.

The AFR did some cliff notes for people not wanting to read through all the legalese.
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Iiked this article http://www.smh.com.au/business/union...031-1mrcl.html
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle View Post

Dubz, your claim that the unions demanded 100% of their claims is rubbish. In all 3 cases the unions have said the pay raises are negotiable.

Claims that all the industrial action is financially crippling the company are a bit whack as well. The pilots union only industrial action to date is to wear non-uniform ties and make in-flight announcements explaining their Qantas Flight - Qantas Pilot demand.

Yet Qantas management repeatedly bring up their current pay levels and make out that they are crippling the company with this action.

The only union actually engaging in action likely to hinder the operation of the airline are the baggage handlers and they are on average earning $38,000 a year which is below the average wage in South Australia let alone anywhere else in the Federation. Considering they need an ASIC clearance to get the job, that is ludicrous.

You certainly don't see Qantas management talking about their pay levels despite the fact they repeatedly mention the 5% payrise which the Baggage Handlers union is the only union making a 5% (negotiable) demand.

The engineers union is asking for a (negotiable) 3% rise and the pilots a (negotiable) 2.5%. Both below the current rate of inflation.

The AFR did some cliff notes for people not wanting to read through all the legalese.

But they're not backing down in terms of accepting no pay rise. Tons of other workers in other companies haven't had pay rises in recent times.

Thanks for the AFR article.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle View Post

I could go on but essentially the majority of the action is to prevent QANTAS executives from moving the company to Asia and fucking off their Australian division entirely.

.

That's for the company to decide, not the unions. Qantas claims they were happy to negotiate most of the terms, except that one. No business will guarantee the jobs of it's staff, Qantas is owned by shareholders not the government
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Qantas have 2 main costs - fuel and people. They can't make fuel cheaper, so the main other way to reduce costs is....ta-dah!

.

you obviously don't know much about the aviation industry if you think these are the only 2 areas where an airline could save costs
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Quote:

Originally Posted by macc4 View Post

you obviously don't know much about the aviation industry if you think these are the only 2 areas where an airline could save costs

I said the main way, not the only way. Read what I write, don't make something up that suits you best in terms of replying in a critical and patronising manner.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by macc4 View Post

you obviously don't know much about the aviation industry if you think these are the only 2 areas where an airline could save costs

over loaded senior management and irrelevant board is a good area to target costs.

Qantas are already making great inroads into streamlining their catering, frequent flyer, IT systems and lower level management.

Qantas run the busiest website in Australia, btw.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post

over loaded senior management and irrelevant board is a good area to target costs.

.

how do you know they are over loaded?
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Because I work with Qantas on some projects, and I can see it. I work with lots of large companies, and it's not hard to see which ones are top heavy, and which aren't.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

That's for the company to decide, not the unions. Qantas claims they were happy to negotiate most of the terms, except that one. No business will guarantee the jobs of it's staff, Qantas is owned by shareholders not the government

Kind of like holding a gun to someones head and agreeing to negotiate everything but the fact you are going to pull the trigger at the end

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictorch

I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate.

Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by THEHEATH View Post

Kind of like holding a gun to someones head and agreeing to negotiate everything but the fact you are going to pull the trigger at the end

So you're saying that Qantas should guarantee jobs?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by dbb618 View Post


Qantas run the busiest website in Australia, btw.

On a tangent, that's nonsense.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bracko View Post

for all those saying "the government should have acted sooner", when exactly was sooner....

http://www.smh.com.au/national/pm-cl...031-1mrca.html

Joyce phones the government and told them he was holding a press conference at 2pm. Press conference was at 5. That's 3 hours. Unions were threatening 48hr rolling strikes after the shareholders announced their overwhelming support. His hand were tied
It's over you BASTARDS!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by THEHEATH View Post

I've been doing some reading to try and grasp some of the wider issues at play here, one of the things I was taken aback by is the incredibly poor reputation Qantas staff (ie. Cabin crew etc. ) have for poor/rude service around the traps.

A lot of the bad cabin crew are the ones who've been working with qantas for years. They get mad at customers cause they are getting in the way of their 4 day shopping trip to London paid for by qantas. They are old miserable bitches/bastards and qantas can't replace them cause they are unionized.

I've flown first, business and economy long haul in the last year to LA and UK. Every class has its good and bad crew. Just like every other airline I've flown has good and bad. Qantas are up there with the best IMO.

Try missing your connecting emirates flight in Dubai at 5am and compair how good Qantas really are when you are in strife.

You realize how good it is only when it's gone. Then you'll be flying Richard Brason or Michael O'Leaey air and kicking yourselves
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

So you're saying that Qantas should guarantee jobs?

I'm saying from an idealogical point of view I would like to see them make a committment not to off shore parts of their Australian operations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictorch

I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate.

Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

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Originally Posted by Balls Deep View Post

A lot of the bad cabin crew are the ones who've been working with qantas for years. They get mad at customers cause they are getting in the way of their 4 day shopping trip to London paid for by qantas. They are old miserable bitches/bastards and qantas can't replace them cause they are unionized.

Yeah, the "old cow brigade" as they seem to be known.

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictorch

I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate.

Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

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Originally Posted by THEHEATH View Post

Kind of like holding a gun to someones head and agreeing to negotiate everything but the fact you are going to pull the trigger at the end

it sucks but that's life. over the last 24 months, thousands of people have been made redundant. Qantas workers are no more special than anyone else. Just because they are unionised and in a monopolistic position of power doesn't mean they should be treated any different to the rest of the country.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Balls Deep View Post

A lot of the bad cabin crew are the ones who've been working with qantas for years. They get mad at customers cause they are getting in the way of their 4 day shopping trip to London paid for by qantas. They are old miserable bitches/bastards and qantas can't replace them cause they are unionized.

I've flown first, business and economy long haul in the last year to LA and UK. Every class has its good and bad crew. Just like every other airline I've flown has good and bad. Qantas are up there with the best IMO.

Try missing your connecting emirates flight in Dubai at 5am and compair how good Qantas really are when you are in strife.

You realize how good it is only when it's gone. Then you'll be flying Richard Brason or Michael O'Leaey air and kicking yourselves

Qantas are usually awesome up the front but below average in cattle. Although I have had two really average LHR - BKK legs this year in business.

But this is all about turning Qantas into Jetstar. It's about not investing in fuel efficient triple 7s, moving maintenance overseas, imposing more fatiguing hours on pilots - up until now Qantas pilots are considered best in class by other pilots, this will now change. It is about driving down the quality. I really think some of you may not realise how Qantas really did stand above the rest in terms of reliability and safety, and how that will now change. There are good reasons why QF32 landed safely, and why pilots stalled AF477. So I for one, as a platinum ff having flown with Qantas for many many years, will be using up my points and changing airlines. Because other airlines do cheaper better than Qantas. I mean really, Qantas domestic 767 fleet are the red rattlers of the sky. Dirty and old.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Balls Deep View Post

Joyce phones the government and told them he was holding a press conference at 2pm. Press conference was at 5. That's 3 hours. Unions were threatening 48hr rolling strikes after the shareholders announced their overwhelming support. His hand were tied

the pm had
the deaths and injuries of Australian soldiers
a major meeting of world leaders she was hosting
but she was to drop everything for this bloke? she has other people he could speak to and was speaking to, its waffle on his part that the pm could have stopped it.
I hope ASIC investigate if it was planned, because he should have notified the market I reckon
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Quote:

Originally Posted by claude glass View Post

Qantas are usually awesome up the front but below average in cattle. Although I have had two really average LHR - BKK legs this year in business.

But this is all about turning Qantas into Jetstar. It's about not investing in fuel efficient triple 7s, moving maintenance overseas, imposing more fatiguing hours on pilots - up until now Qantas pilots are considered best in class by other pilots, this will now change. It is about driving down the quality. I really think some of you may not realise how Qantas really did stand above the rest in terms of reliability and safety, and how that will now change. There are good reasons why QF32 landed safely, and why pilots stalled AF477. So I for one, as a platinum ff having flown with Qantas for many many years, will be using up my points and changing airlines. Because other airlines do cheaper better than Qantas. I mean really, Qantas domestic 767 fleet are the red rattlers of the sky. Dirty and old.

I've flown Qantas long-hall to the UK in cattle 4 times in the last 2 years. I have found the cabin crew to be outstanding. Honestly. They were the younger crew for the most part. Honestly, way better than Singapore, Virgin and Emirates. I'm not saying every single person was cheerful but no one was rude, every one polite.

I stopped using Qantas for 10 years because of the service.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

That's for the company to decide,

Incorrect.

Qantas isn't simply a publicly listed company. They are a privatised company that is additionally restricted by the Qantas Sale Act. They can't just decide to move off-shore because they were fuckwits and didn't replace their high maintenance 747 and 767 fleets with more modern aircraft so need to find a way to cut costs. They have a responsibility to maintain an Australian base of operations because that is part of the agreement they made when they purchased the company from the Australian People.

But yes I get it, you think companies should be allowed to break laws and contracts so long as it makes them a quid. After all you think companies are people. People that don't have citizenship or any obligations simply rights to do whatever the fuck they want - whenever the fuck they want - to whoever the fuck they want. How dare taxpayers and their employees demand that a company meets its legal and contractual obligations.

How dare Qantas pilots wear red ties instead of blue ties to work to protest the fact that Qantas have been having pilots that don't meet Qantas's standards of training fly planes that Qantas has sold as Qantas flights in Qantas marked planes? How dare anyone question their right to sell a product as being high quality when in fact it is much lower? Companies are more important than other people and should be allowed to do whatever they want if it makes them money.

I assume your view is pushed by the idea that one day you imagine you will own a multinational corporation and rule the globe. We are all infringing on your rights to receive bonus in the range of millions of dollars when you are CEO of some globe spanning corporate empire at some undefined point in the future.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

Qantas have 2 main costs - fuel and people. They can't make fuel cheaper, so the main other way to reduce costs is....ta-dah!

do they get the planes for free?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Griggle View Post

Incorrect.

Qantas isn't simply a publicly listed company. They are a privatised company that is additionally restricted by the Qantas Sale Act. They can't just decide to move off-shore because they were fuckwits and didn't replace their high maintenance 747 and 767 fleets with more modern aircraft so need to find a way to cut costs. They have a responsibility to maintain an Australian base of operations because that is part of the agreement they made when they purchased the company from the Australian People.

But yes I get it, you think companies should be allowed to break laws and contracts so long as it makes them a quid. After all you think companies are people. People that don't have citizenship or any obligations simply rights to do whatever the fuck they want - whenever the fuck they want - to whoever the fuck they want. How dare taxpayers and their employees demand that a company meets its legal and contractual obligations.

How dare Qantas pilots wear red ties instead of blue ties to work to protest the fact that Qantas have been having pilots that don't meet Qantas's standards of training fly planes that Qantas has sold as Qantas flights in Qantas marked planes? How dare anyone question their right to sell a product as being high quality when in fact it is much lower? Companies are more important than other people and should be allowed to do whatever they want if it makes them money.

I assume your view is pushed by the idea that one day you imagine you will own a multinational corporation and rule the globe. We are all infringing on your rights to receive bonus in the range of millions of dollars when you are CEO of some globe spanning corporate empire at some undefined point in the future.

wtf are you crapping on about? you just rant on and on with senseless rubbish. Where did Qantas break the law? Where did Qantas say they wouyld move offshore? Joyce wants to move some operations offshore and there is nothing in the Sale Act that says he can't do that as long as it doesn't shift the operational base from Australia.

you just crap on and on with garbage in every post. i have a visual of you sitting in a darkened room licking your monitor
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Royal View Post

do they get the planes for free?

The planes are usually on finance, therefore they pay for themselves by flying and making money. If you ran a business you'd know that the most expensive part is labour, for an airline the other most expensive part is fuel (for most companies it's infrastructure - offices/computers/phones etc).

Read online, I think both fuel and labour cost Qantas over $3bn a year each, everything else comes way behind.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

it sucks but that's life. over the last 24 months, thousands of people have been made redundant. Qantas workers are no more special than anyone else. Just because they are unionised and in a monopolistic position of power doesn't mean they should be treated any different to the rest of the country.

To quote Dick Smith: Mr Smith said many jobs in Australia were protected.

''Politicians are protected - we are not allowed to bring in cheap Chinese politicians to replace the ones we have,'' he said.

''You can't get a lawyer from China for $20 per day to do your conveyancing.''

In summary, some workers are treated differently.

If I was them and Qantas had a stated objective to take jobs offshore I would fight the company tooth and nail, even if that meant it went under. They have nothing to lose in that regard imo. The companies obligation is to the shareholders, the unions obligation is to the employees/members. If the jobs go offshore the employees don't have a job and the union has less members, so they are both fighting for their survival in that sense. If Qantas can't stay afloat paying Australians real wages then so be it. The unions must fight this, and fight it till the death if need be.

The union still has room to move though, seems like their requests for engineers to do the visual check etc. are unnecessary and if they really want to keep the jobs in oz you would think there is some room for either productivity increases for the pilots or a some pullback in wages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictorch

I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate.

Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

Last edited by THEHEATH: 31-Oct-11 at 09:37pm

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Quote:

Originally Posted by THEHEATH View Post

If I was them and Qantas had a stated objective to take jobs offshore I would fight the company tooth and nail, even if that meant it went under. They have nothing to lose in that regard imo. The companies obligation is to the shareholders, the unions obligation is to the employees/members. If the jobs go offshore the employees don't have a job and the union has less members, so they are both fighting for their survival in that sense. If Qantas can't stay afloat paying Australians real wages then so be it. The unions must fight this, and fight it till the death if need be.

.

this is why Unions have no sympathy or support outside of their own narrow base and why they can never win the support of the coumminty at large, even in extraordinary situations such as this.

I am concerned at the job losses in this country, but we are all on thin ice. We either all need to accept a lower standard of iving and drop our wages across the board or we will all be speaking mandarin and running 7-eleven stores
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As you said earlier, "that's life". Unions exist and if they didn't workers the world over would be worse off. It's like the whole financial/political system. It's all totally fucked up and doesn't run how it should do, but it is what it is until it all collapses and so you work with what you've got.

Btw I'm of the belief that the "community at large" is behind the Qantas workers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictorch

I am epileptic, so making fun of other people with epilepsy isn't making fun of people less fortunate.

Also, despite my epilepsy, I daresay I'm more fortunate than you, you condescending prick.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubz View Post

The planes are usually on finance, therefore they pay for themselves by flying and making money. If you ran a business you'd know that the most expensive part is labour, for an airline the other most expensive part is fuel (for most companies it's infrastructure - offices/computers/phones etc).

Read online, I think both fuel and labour cost Qantas over $3bn a year each, everything else comes way behind.

qantas has many offices, computers, phones etc

they also have bigger things like engineering hangars and flight simulators
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Quote:

Originally Posted by buffed View Post

I am concerned at the job losses in this country, but we are all on thin ice. We either all need to accept a lower standard of iving and drop our wages across the board or we will all be speaking mandarin and running 7-eleven stores

::socialist alert::socialist alert::socialist alert::socialist alert::

Step away from the computer. Where is the real buffed?

Honestly do you actually believe that or are you just so pro-business and anti-unions that you will say whatever is the opposite of what your ideological opponent says?

I'm really interested. You have spent the best part of 6 years deriding those of us who even suggest that there was a deliberate disarticulation of Australia's supposed egalitarianism spirit under Howard (yes I was a Howard Hater for only one reason [I disliked his butchering and technocratising of tertiary education but I did not hate him for policy choices] and that was his accusation that refugees tried to murder their own children by drowning in an attempted blackmail to gain entry to this country - it was a despicable act from the Leader of our nation; it showed he has no morals and no integrity).

Long digression aside: you chided those of us who were against the rampant consumerism and worship of materialism that just happened to occur under Howard (could have been Labor, probably would still have been the same). Is it really possible that you see that not only is consumerist materialism corrupting it just isn't sustainable?

You went walked the road to Damascus didn't you buffed?
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezah View Post

you chided those of us who were against the rampant consumerism and worship of materialism that just happened to occur under Howard. Is it really possible that you see that not only is consumerist materialism corrupting it just isn't sustainable?

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happy to read asic investigating this incident
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Quote:

Originally Posted by macc4 View Post

qantas has many offices, computers, phones etc

they also have bigger things like engineering hangars and flight simulators

Yes indeed. And yet despite all that, their biggest two costs are fuel and people.

Really not sure what your argument is here dude.

Offices computers and phones don't come close to salaries.
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I have to say, I'm disgusted by Gillard's behaviour - the government has no right to get involved and allowing the press to hear that she has called Joyce to bitch at him and is laying the blame squarely at his door is totally inappropriate.

But then again she also called that boy over in Bali so clearly her judgement is poor at best.

Sooner she goes, the better.
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so he can whine in the press she wouldnt drop everything like the deaths of aussie soldiers etc to take his call, but she cannot do the same? His behaviour was out of line, I hope they sting qantas on government spending going forward, national airline my arse
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Quote:

Originally Posted by macc4 View Post

qantas has many offices, computers, phones etc

they also have bigger things like engineering hangars and flight simulators

They also pay hundreds of millions each year for air traffic control services...
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Quote:

Originally Posted by jdoodle View Post

so he can whine in the press she wouldnt drop everything like the deaths of aussie soldiers etc to take his call, but she cannot do the same? His behaviour was out of line, I hope they sting qantas on government spending going forward, national airline my arse

Yes, he can whine in the press, she can't.

FFS there needs to be some decorum in government, some acknowledgement that a PM needs to rise above petty disputes.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dj Whisper View Post

They also pay hundreds of millions each year for air traffic control services...

So they should pay less in order to save money?

Hundreds of millions? Really? I'd be keen to know a more exact figure, a quick google search didn't come up with much.
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